pzlyprk said:

It's staggering to me the disrespect some of you guys throw at The Time's members. I clearly would not be here (the org) if I wasn't a Prince fan, but that doesn't mean I can't easily see when the guy's been a complete a-hole. P's whole adult life has been about control and manipulation, because of his childhood issues with his parents (a pyschologist would have a field day examining P's life). Offering Morris a band for Partyup was a nice offer, but it shouldn't have ever come with the puppet strings that P manipulated from day one. What would it have hurt him to let the others take a stab at writing for the band? Clearly, there were/are multiple talented writers in the band. But in hindsight, P more than resembled his character in PR. MUST...NOT...RELINQUISH...CONTROL...TO...ANYONE! "Developing talent" for WB should have meant bringing them up to where they can do things on their own eventually (which they were already capable of doing). To P that meant "oh, here's another outlet (puppet I can manipulate) for MY music. Who gives a rat's ass about the people involved." My favorite quote that defines P's arrogance and assery (in reference to Jam & Lewis leaving)... "Just wait, you'll never hear anything about them again." That's the equivalent to a teenager cutting down another kid to make himself look better.

Wholeheartedly agree with everything you've said here. "P" got control issues. Be that as it may, Jam & Lewis ended up doin' EXTREMELY WELL 4 themselves. They're absolutely brilliant producers.

LittleBLUECorvette said:

They missed work cause of a blizzard, not because they were tryin to screw Prince over. They were producing in their off time also. And about most artist not making money in 83, that maybe true. But, were the Time even getting anything from album sales? They were basically on the cover, did no background vocals or instruments or writing/production besides Morris. Prince was only paying them as a backing band.

Apparently,it was okay for Prince to make millions of dollars,but his proteges were not allowed to pursue opportunities that came their way.Morris was asked to write a song for Evelyn Champagne King but Prince wouldn't let him do it.He didn't want any of these people to further their careers.It's ironic that,many years later,he called himself a "slave" and dissed Warners for doing the same thing he did to others.

pzlyprk said:

It's staggering to me the disrespect some of you guys throw at The Time's members. I clearly would not be here (the org) if I wasn't a Prince fan, but that doesn't mean I can't easily see when the guy's been a complete a-hole. P's whole adult life has been about control and manipulation, because of his childhood issues with his parents (a pyschologist would have a field day examining P's life). Offering Morris a band for Partyup was a nice offer, but it shouldn't have ever come with the puppet strings that P manipulated from day one. What would it have hurt him to let the others take a stab at writing for the band? Clearly, there were/are multiple talented writers in the band. But in hindsight, P more than resembled his character in PR. MUST...NOT...RELINQUISH...CONTROL...TO...ANYONE! "Developing talent" for WB should have meant bringing them up to where they can do things on their own eventually (which they were already capable of doing). To P that meant "oh, here's another outlet (puppet I can manipulate) for MY music. Who gives a rat's ass about the people involved." My favorite quote that defines P's arrogance and assery (in reference to Jam & Lewis leaving)... "Just wait, you'll never hear anything about them again." That's the equivalent to a teenager cutting down another kid to make himself look better.

AMEN! I no longer need to make any more comments on this thread.You said it all.

SoulAlive said:

LittleBLUECorvette said:

They missed work cause of a blizzard, not because they were tryin to screw Prince over. They were producing in their off time also. And about most artist not making money in 83, that maybe true. But, were the Time even getting anything from album sales? They were basically on the cover, did no background vocals or instruments or writing/production besides Morris. Prince was only paying them as a backing band.

Apparently,it was okay for Prince to make millions of dollars,but his proteges were not allowed to pursue opportunities that came their way.Morris was asked to write a song for Evelyn Champagne King but Prince wouldn't let him do it.He didn't want any of these people to further their careers.It's ironic that,many years later,he called himself a "slave" and dissed Warners for doing the same thing he did to others.

Now see that's the type of shit I hate. I wanna make money but you won't let me and then years later you bitch about a label that won't let you do what you want?

About band pay, Brown Mark said he was offered $3,500 a week to work with Stevie Nicks. He was making a third of that with Prince. He said Prince talked him down and told him he would be rich the next year, which never happened.

MadamGoodnight said:

About band pay, Brown Mark said he was offered $3,500 a week to work with Stevie Nicks. He was making a third of that with Prince. He said Prince talked him down and told him he would be rich the next year, which never happened.

For that kind of money,I would have said "Later,Prince"

MadamGoodnight said:

About band pay, Brown Mark said he was offered $3,500 a week to work with Stevie Nicks. He was making a third of that with Prince. He said Prince talked him down and told him he would be rich the next year, which never happened.

It wouldn't surprise me one bit when it comes to the money because during that period the "white rock" orriented bands generaly paid more money to their hired musicians due to stronger ticket gate and guarentee and I know that first hand. There was an article on Mothers Finest and they also said that they made more money when they played with rock acts versus rnb acts, wheather they headlined or not. So he was most likely telling the truth. Most band leaders don't what to see their players leave on their own, especially when it comes to another high profile act. Their egos get in the way. What a shame. Brown Mark couldn't predict his future with Prince as far as longevity is concerned. I'm sure he felt "A bird in the hand is worth two in a bush"

MickyDolenz said:

LittleBLUECorvette said:

The way they were talkin on the DVD, they did't really get anything, I think 100 a night or so. They said they made more playing behind Vanity 6 than themselves.

The Gap Band didn't make a lot of money either. Lonnie Simmons took most of the touring profits and their publishing too.

Yeah Lonnie and Prince were twins in that arena.

purplethunder3121 said:

Honest Man exhale and say owee owee oh

pzlyprk said:

It's staggering to me the disrespect some of you guys throw at The Time's members. I clearly would not be here (the org) if I wasn't a Prince fan, but that doesn't mean I can't easily see when the guy's been a complete a-hole. P's whole adult life has been about control and manipulation, because of his childhood issues with his parents (a pyschologist would have a field day examining P's life). Offering Morris a band for Partyup was a nice offer, but it shouldn't have ever come with the puppet strings that P manipulated from day one. What would it have hurt him to let the others take a stab at writing for the band? Clearly, there were/are multiple talented writers in the band. But in hindsight, P more than resembled his character in PR. MUST...NOT...RELINQUISH...CONTROL...TO...ANYONE! "Developing talent" for WB should have meant bringing them up to where they can do things on their own eventually (which they were already capable of doing). To P that meant "oh, here's another outlet (puppet I can manipulate) for MY music. Who gives a rat's ass about the people involved." My favorite quote that defines P's arrogance and assery (in reference to Jam & Lewis leaving)... "Just wait, you'll never hear anything about them again." That's the equivalent to a teenager cutting down another kid to make himself look better.

SoulAlive said:

MadamGoodnight said:

About band pay, Brown Mark said he was offered $3,500 a week to work with Stevie Nicks. He was making a third of that with Prince. He said Prince talked him down and told him he would be rich the next year, which never happened.

For that kind of money,I would have said "Later,Prince"

madhattter said:

MadamGoodnight said:

About band pay, Brown Mark said he was offered $3,500 a week to work with Stevie Nicks. He was making a third of that with Prince. He said Prince talked him down and told him he would be rich the next year, which never happened.

It wouldn't surprise me one bit when it comes to the money because during that period the "white rock" orriented bands generaly paid more money to their hired musicians due to stronger ticket gate and guarentee and I know that first hand. There was an article on Mothers Finest and they also said that they made more money when they played with rock acts versus rnb acts, wheather they headlined or not. So he was most likely telling the truth. Most band leaders don't what to see their players leave on their own, especially when it comes to another high profile act. Their egos get in the way. What a shame. Brown Mark couldn't predict his future with Prince as far as longevity is concerned. I'm sure he felt "A bird in the hand is worth two in a bush"

Very interesting!

I read about it in the book Prince, A Pop Life, by Dave Hill.

phunkdaddy said:

purplethunder3121 said:

Honest Man exhale and say owee owee oh

They still got it.

Timmy84 said:

SoulAlive said:

Apparently,it was okay for Prince to make millions of dollars,but his proteges were not allowed to pursue opportunities that came their way.Morris was asked to write a song for Evelyn Champagne King but Prince wouldn't let him do it.He didn't want any of these people to further their careers.It's ironic that,many years later,he called himself a "slave" and dissed Warners for doing the same thing he did to others.

Now see that's the type of shit I hate. I wanna make money but you won't let me and then years later you bitch about a label that won't let you do what you want?

I've said this repeatedly: Prince should have utlilized some of that great talent that he had around him.Instead of firing Jam and Lewis,he should have listened to their songs and signed them to an exclusive writing and production deal.Andre Cymone should have been offered a deal too.Prince's empire would have been the Motown of the 80s.Imagine some of those Jam and Lewis hits going to the Paisley Park recording artists.....Jill Jones could have gotten stuff like "I Didn't Mean To Turn You On" or Cymone's "Still A Thrill".....surefire hit songs that would have propelled her career! Everybody,including Prince,would have made lots of money and there wouldn't have been any animosity or bad feelings.

SoulAlive said:

Timmy84 said:

Now see that's the type of shit I hate. I wanna make money but you won't let me and then years later you bitch about a label that won't let you do what you want?

I've said this repeatedly: Prince should have utlilized some of that great talent that he had around him.Instead of firing Jam and Lewis,he should have listened to their songs and signed them to an exclusive writing and production deal.Andre Cymone should have been offered a deal too.Prince's empire would have been the Motown of the 80s.Imagine some of those Jam and Lewis hits going to the Paisley Park recording artists.....Jill Jones could have gotten stuff like "I Didn't Mean To Turn You On" or Cymone's "Still A Thrill".....surefire hit songs that would have propelled her career! Everybody,including Prince,would have made lots of money and there wouldn't have been any animosity or bad feelings.

Definitely agree about utilizing the talent around him, SoulAlive. But I'm curious... if P had loosened the reigns, I wonder how long Andre, Jimmy, Terry (Jellybean, Monte, Jesse, Wendy, Lisa...) would have stayed under the Paisley umbrella. Ultimately he still would have been the patriarch. I wonder if those guys would have been cool with that. Would've been cool to see, nonetheless. Ultimately, they were dealing with someone with such extreme control issues that he eventually made a former bodyguard head of Paisley Park. Might as well have made Wally and Brooks his accountants for good measure.

SoulAlive said:

Timmy84 said:

Now see that's the type of shit I hate. I wanna make money but you won't let me and then years later you bitch about a label that won't let you do what you want?

I've said this repeatedly: Prince should have utlilized some of that great talent that he had around him.Instead of firing Jam and Lewis,he should have listened to their songs and signed them to an exclusive writing and production deal.Andre Cymone should have been offered a deal too.Prince's empire would have been the Motown of the 80s.Imagine some of those Jam and Lewis hits going to the Paisley Park recording artists.....Jill Jones could have gotten stuff like "I Didn't Mean To Turn You On" or Cymone's "Still A Thrill".....surefire hit songs that would have propelled her career! Everybody,including Prince,would have made lots of money and there wouldn't have been any animosity or bad feelings.

I think it worked out the way it was supposed 2.

jam and lewis would have left even if they were offered deals under prince to produce thats how things always go. and they missed the flight which would pay them close to nothing. how could they afford the flight tix? if they made nothing what was thier motivation of being there.

Morris greatly benefitted from being in PR and opened up more doors for him and also jesse. if morris had left b4 PR he would be a nobody basically.

Alexande o'niel did even better on his own. he was huge in the uk compared to us.

cymone wanted to be as successful as prince thats why he left early on and he also had a contract which let him have side projects.

vanity after using prince as a stepping stone.

What doesnt make sense is if brown mark was getting paid like 1k a week why were the time paid only 100 per show for 7guys thats pretty much $13/nite?how can u survie with 13 ? it doesnt make sense.

how much does prince his band members now?

asg said:

jam and lewis would have left even if they were offered deals under prince to produce thats how things always go. and they missed the flight which would pay them close to nothing. how could they afford the flight tix? if they made nothing what was thier motivation of being there.

Morris greatly benefitted from being in PR and opened up more doors for him and also jesse. if morris had left b4 PR he would be a nobody basically.

Alexande o'niel did even better on his own. he was huge in the uk compared to us.

cymone wanted to be as successful as prince thats why he left early on and he also had a contract which let him have side projects.

vanity after using prince as a stepping stone.

What doesnt make sense is if brown mark was getting paid like 1k a week why were the time paid only 100 per show for 7guys thats pretty much $13/nite?how can u survie with 13 ? it doesnt make sense.

how much does prince his band members now?

They were each making a $100 per show/per person.