I remember when Hip Hop came out when I was younger, the first songs I ever heard were Rapper's Delight (by Sugar Hill Gang) and The Message (by Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five), I thought, "This is very interesting" and throughout the 80s, it came in many forms, Party, Comedic and sometimes Politcal (thanks in part to Public Enemy), but it set a (sometimes) positive example for people that this was open to be a franchising market, then it became a worldwide multi-cultural phenomenon. Pretty soon, all races and sexes (like Beastie Boys, MC Lyte, etc.) jumped in onto the act, it also had its beefs (but in a positive way), its most famous (that I remember) was between L.L Cool J vs Kool Moe Dee. Back then, beefs like those were all about respect, influence and support, there was nothing negative about them either. Then, there was explicit rap, the first ones (that I know) to put cusswords on a record were the 2 Live Crew, but they did it all just for fun, then N.W.A comes in with the harsh realities of life and then from there on out, Gangsta rap ruled the music world all the way up to the late 90s, after the assasinations of 2Pac and the Notorious B.I.G., the world of Hip Hop had hit a huge crossroads. Then artists like Master P and Lil' Jon came in and brought their style in called, "Crunk" and from there, it went straight downhill. And as Crunk became a phenomenon, it also came with a lot of negative lyrics that glorifies what all of (most of) today's rappers rap about, talking about being pimps, glorifying drug use, packing weapons and that's why so many of our young kids today are heavily influenced by these rappers and there are teen pregnancies, more drug abuse than ever before, more gangs, kids being either jailed or killed and the beats are always the same. It's gotten to the point where Hip Hop is now slowly beginning to die (because the younger generation don't know how to respect its orgins and where it came from) and I feel that if there's no one who can come in and bring the positivity back, there will be nothing left. That's how I feel about it.

Rap was at its best when it was still on the streets at block parties before record companies decided to cash-in and exploit.

That's basically all I have to say.

[Edited 10/20/11 12:56pm]

^that's about it

82-93 rap was the equivalent of 50s Rock N' Roll: street-wise, revolutionary, dangerous, edgy, hungry

20 years later, things changed for both genres, and NOT for the better: it's all about labels, hits, and money, just take a look at 80s Rock N' Roll (glam, MTV and Billboard, basically) and 00s rap/hip-hop (hits, biatches a la Kardashian, and money)

at least rock had grunge and alternative in the early-90s, but I'm still waiting for a return to the edgy sounds/lyrics in the rap world...

JabarR74 said:

I remember when Hip Hop came out when I was younger, the first songs I ever heard were Rapper's Delight (by Sugar Hill Gang) and The Message (by Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five), I thought, "This is very interesting" and throughout the 80s, it came in many forms, Party, Comedic and sometimes Politcal (thanks in part to Public Enemy), but it set a (sometimes) positive example for people that this was open to be a franchising market, then it became a worldwide multi-cultural phenomenon. Pretty soon, all races and sexes (like Beastie Boys, MC Lyte, etc.) jumped in onto the act, it also had its beefs (but in a positive way), its most famous (that I remember) was between L.L Cool J vs Kool Moe Dee. Back then, beefs like those were all about respect, influence and support, there was nothing negative about them either. Then, there was explicit rap, the first ones (that I know) to put cusswords on a record were the 2 Live Crew, but they did it all just for fun, then N.W.A comes in with the harsh realities of life and then from there on out, Gangsta rap ruled the music world all the way up to the late 90s, after the assasinations of 2Pac and the Notorious B.I.G., the world of Hip Hop had hit a huge crossroads. Then artists like Master P and Lil' Jon came in and brought their style in called, "Crunk" and from there, it went straight downhill. And as Crunk became a phenomenon, it also came with a lot of negative lyrics that glorifies what all of (most of) today's rappers rap about, talking about being pimps, glorifying drug use, packing weapons and that's why so many of our young kids today are heavily influenced by these rappers and there are teen pregnancies, more drug abuse than ever before, more gangs, kids being either jailed or killed and the beats are always the same. It's gotten to the point where Hip Hop is now slowly beginning to die (because the younger generation don't know how to respect its orgins and where it came from) and I feel that if there's no one who can come in and bring the positivity back, there will be nothing left. That's how I feel about it.

The bolded part is pure bullshit. First off, crunk didnt bring these lyrics, if you listen to crunk rap it might as well have no lyrics because the rappers arent rapping they're talking and usually they cant even mange to rhyme more than a single syllable. Also, crunk rappers arent very popular AT ALL, and usually arent even considered rappers.

Your info is very very screwed up. The drug use glorification didnt come in the late 90's it came in the VERY early 90's and it isnt a bad thing AT ALL. Kids arent using drugs, joining gangs, or becoming pregnant at higher rates than before. The only difference between today and the 80's is that people have more info available and are more aware of the situation. A lot of the best rap is all about drugs, guns, killing, doing drugs, being pimps. Do you actually think that the kid is gonna become a pimp because Snoop Dogg said it? Do you actually think the kid is gonna kill someone because Eminem said it? I don't know where your getting the whole hiphop causes teen pregnacy thing. Most everyone will smoke a joint in their life, I don't know why your blaming Dre.

Your perspective is that of someone who has lived a very sheltered life and/or just doesnt understand the topic. Unless the kid has a very underdeveloped brain (meaning hes under 12) the music doesnt have any influence and even then the influence won't last since kids get their own minds once their brain develops. Kids that do get into the trouble you describe live in very bad situations and actaully expirience what they are listening to in real life, whats actually happening to the kids is the real influence.

Hell, I could make an argument that Prince is making turning everyone into perverts and it would be just as valid as yours.

P.S. - I find it funny that your complaining now, gangsta rap is dead and has been dead since 50 Cent fell off. Most people complaining about rap are complaining about how soft it is

P.S.S. - Tyler, there is still a lot of great rap, it just isnt getting much mainstream attention. Lyrically its actually a lot better than the 80's stuff. Rap has developed a lot in the rhyming compartment. If any good 80's rapper came out today they would be critized for their rhymes being WAAAAAAAAY simpler than the competition (If your just rhyming one syllable at the end of the line then your doing a terrible job)

[Edited 10/20/11 14:36pm]

[Edited 10/20/11 14:40pm]

JabarR74 said:

I remember when Hip Hop came out when I was younger, the first songs I ever heard were Rapper's Delight (by Sugar Hill Gang) and The Message (by Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five), I thought, "This is very interesting" and throughout the 80s, it came in many forms, Party, Comedic and sometimes Politcal (thanks in part to Public Enemy), but it set a (sometimes) positive example for people that this was open to be a franchising market, then it became a worldwide multi-cultural phenomenon. Pretty soon, all races and sexes (like Beastie Boys, MC Lyte, etc.) jumped in onto the act, it also had its beefs (but in a positive way), its most famous (that I remember) was between L.L Cool J vs Kool Moe Dee. Back then, beefs like those were all about respect, influence and support, there was nothing negative about them either. Then, there was explicit rap, the first ones (that I know) to put cusswords on a record were the 2 Live Crew, but they did it all just for fun, then N.W.A comes in with the harsh realities of life and then from there on out, Gangsta rap ruled the music world all the way up to the late 90s, after the assasinations of 2Pac and the Notorious B.I.G., the world of Hip Hop had hit a huge crossroads. Then artists like Master P and Lil' Jon came in and brought their style in called, "Crunk" and from there, it went straight downhill. And as Crunk became a phenomenon, it also came with a lot of negative lyrics that glorifies what all of (most of) today's rappers rap about, talking about being pimps, glorifying drug use, packing weapons and that's why so many of our young kids today are heavily influenced by these rappers and there are teen pregnancies, more drug abuse than ever before, more gangs, kids being either jailed or killed and the beats are always the same. It's gotten to the point where Hip Hop is now slowly beginning to die (because the younger generation don't know how to respect its orgins and where it came from) and I feel that if there's no one who can come in and bring the positivity back, there will be nothing left. That's how I feel about it.

ok....once again, Chris Rock has to clear this up

When Gangsta Rap took over, REAL hip-hop died.

smoothcriminal12 said:

When Gangsta Rap took over, REAL hip-hop died.

and..... as a woman i have to say when the "gansta" shit happened rap became overwhelmingly hateful and misogynistic. i was a young teen in the 80's and all that early stuff was just great party music. good times! but i stopped buying it when every woman became a bitch and ho and suck my dick golddigga blablablah...

for me i wasn't the labels that killed the quality of rap it was all the gender hate and violence as subject matter. i find it hard to explain that to 20 somethings who were brought on tupac's "thuggd out" crap or all those obsecene rappers like too short et al. ive actually heard some kids slag off run dmc as corny! the people making the music lost their way,imo.

smoothcriminal12 said:

When Gangsta Rap took over, REAL hip-hop died.

But seriously I think what injured hip-hop was when certain people (*coughSugePuffycough*) did it best to undermine what hip-hop could (and still could) bring as far as communication between all of us. Then you have those who are only in it for business and not for the actual music anymore so you get all these busters and actors pretending to be gangstas and emcees when they wouldn't know what a gangsta look like if they actually lived in Yonkers or Detroit or Compton or even High Point here in North Carolina, or an emcee if they read it on XXL or The Source.

Timmy84 said:

But seriously I think what injured hip-hop was when certain people (*coughSugePuffycough*) did it best to undermine what hip-hop could (and still could) bring as far as communication between all of us. Then you have those who are only in it for business and not for the actual music anymore so you get all these busters and actors pretending to be gangstas and emcees when they wouldn't know what a gangsta look like if they actually lived in Yonkers or Detroit or Compton or even High Point here in North Carolina, or an emcee if they read it on XXL or The Source.

THIS!!! And it's so damn easy to make a hit these days: just plunk out a couple of notes on the keyboard over a beat, write up a cute lil' nursery rhyme and start rappin'...

Shit, I'm in the wrong business.

*looks over and sees my Coach purse hangin' on the door handle...*

The bolded part is pure bullshit. First off, crunk didnt bring these lyrics, if you listen to crunk rap it might as well have no lyrics because the rappers arent rapping they're talking and usually they cant even mange to rhyme more than a single syllable. Also, crunk rappers arent very popular AT ALL, and usually arent even considered rappers.

Your info is very very screwed up. The drug use glorification didnt come in the late 90's it came in the VERY early 90's and it isnt a bad thing AT ALL. Kids arent using drugs, joining gangs, or becoming pregnant at higher rates than before. The only difference between today and the 80's is that people have more info available and are more aware of the situation. A lot of the best rap is all about drugs, guns, killing, doing drugs, being pimps. Do you actually think that the kid is gonna become a pimp because Snoop Dogg said it? Do you actually think the kid is gonna kill someone because Eminem said it? I don't know where your getting the whole hiphop causes teen pregnacy thing. Most everyone will smoke a joint in their life, I don't know why your blaming Dre.

Your perspective is that of someone who has lived a very sheltered life and/or just doesnt understand the topic. Unless the kid has a very underdeveloped brain (meaning hes under 12) the music doesnt have any influence and even then the influence won't last since kids get their own minds once their brain develops. Kids that do get into the trouble you describe live in very bad situations and actaully expirience what they are listening to in real life, whats actually happening to the kids is the real influence.

Hell, I could make an argument that Prince is making turning everyone into perverts and it would be just as valid as yours.

P.S. - I find it funny that your complaining now, gangsta rap is dead and has been dead since 50 Cent fell off. Most people complaining about rap are complaining about how soft it is

P.S.S. - Tyler, there is still a lot of great rap, it just isnt getting much mainstream attention. Lyrically its actually a lot better than the 80's stuff. Rap has developed a lot in the rhyming compartment. If any good 80's rapper came out today they would be critized for their rhymes being WAAAAAAAAY simpler than the competition (If your just rhyming one syllable at the end of the line then your doing a terrible job)

[Edited 10/20/11 14:36pm]

[Edited 10/20/11 14:40pm]

You don't get my point! Dealz said it right when he was on Mo'Nique, it's all about follow the follower now these days. I never dissed Dre or Snoop, I said, there's a lot of negativity in most of today's rappers and there are! If today's rappers really had those positive lyrics you praise them about, then they wouldn't be caught up in all these damn scandals! I meant what I said, they do glorify what they rap about so much, its no wonder I no longer listen to the radio anymore. Gangsta rap may have started the fire, but Crunk added more fuel and made it much worse than before!

Timmy84 said:

smoothcriminal12 said:

When Gangsta Rap took over, REAL hip-hop died.

Hell no, you know it's true! When rap became misogynistic and more about bitches and hoes it lost it's meaning. And the music became awful.

MyNameIsPiper said:

Timmy84 said:

But seriously I think what injured hip-hop was when certain people (*coughSugePuffycough*) did it best to undermine what hip-hop could (and still could) bring as far as communication between all of us. Then you have those who are only in it for business and not for the actual music anymore so you get all these busters and actors pretending to be gangstas and emcees when they wouldn't know what a gangsta look like if they actually lived in Yonkers or Detroit or Compton or even High Point here in North Carolina, or an emcee if they read it on XXL or The Source.

THIS!!! And it's so damn easy to make a hit these days: just plunk out a couple of notes on the keyboard over a beat, write up a cute lil' nursery rhyme and start rappin'...

Shit, I'm in the wrong business.

Right. I think the media often pegged hip-hop as "untalented" back in the day because they didn't understand how someone like that could sell. Once it did sold however, they found ways to dumb it up for mainstream purposes. The ones being promoted as "rappers" are bustas. Then you hear classic shit and you realize rapping is not as simple as people thought. There was indeed talent! That's why you see 13-year-old kids on TUMBLR going "Soulja Boy is a buster!" on a 2Pac video!

smoothcriminal12 said:

Timmy84 said:

Hell no, you know it's true! When rap became misogynistic and more about bitches and hoes it lost it's meaning. And the music became awful.

But you just posted "The Chronic".

Timmy84 said:

smoothcriminal12 said:

Hell no, you know it's true! When rap became misogynistic and more about bitches and hoes it lost it's meaning. And the music became awful.

But you just posted "The Chronic".

That's the exception.

smoothcriminal12 said:

Timmy84 said:

But you just posted "The Chronic".

That's the exception.

There were more exceptions.

Timmy84 said:

smoothcriminal12 said:

That's the exception.

There were more exceptions.

I know. I'm just BSing and frontin' like I know my hip hop history. I'm okay regarding hip hop really.

smoothcriminal12 said:

Timmy84 said:

There were more exceptions.

I know. I'm just BSing and frontin' like I know my hip hop history. I'm okay regarding hip hop really.

I feel ya lol

Something happened aaround 2003.

Cause from 97 to 2003

Hip was heading towards a good direction, you had The Roots, Immortal Technique.

Hip hop was branching out, seeking a more organic sound, and I was digging it.

Then came The neptunes and brought more innovations...

Grindin is still fresh TO THIS DAY,

Then Timbaland, started flirting with electro, which was fresh when he did it.

until he did it to death and everybody started fucking doing it.

And everybody jumped on the band wagon.

and on another spectrum.

Lil John came with Krunk, and then came Soulja Boy...

And we just started to get this influx of trash.

smoothcriminal12 said:

Timmy84 said:

Hell no, you know it's true! When rap became misogynistic and more about bitches and hoes it lost it's meaning. And the music became awful.

yup....before, they were called shorty's & honey dips

HuMpThAnG said:

smoothcriminal12 said:

Hell no, you know it's true! When rap became misogynistic and more about bitches and hoes it lost it's meaning. And the music became awful.

yup....before, they were called shorty's & honey dips

I detect the sarcasm here. People were still saying "shorty" (or "shawty") until recently. I heard a "bitch" and a "ho" in some pre-1986 recordings.

I still love Hip Hop but it doesn't speak to me anymore I really don't have a desire to listen to it. I can really care less about having real "gangsters" rap these days that whole thug lifestyle doesn't interest me and I grew up . Kanye West , J. Cole , Jay-Z , eminem, lupe fiasco are probably the main ones I really listen to these days. Wayne and Drake are overrated but I do listen when I want to hear something catchy and beyond bored(yeah I know why them) that's about it.

[Edited 10/20/11 18:07pm]

i used to love N.W.A, Dr. Dre & the rest. But eh.. i have grown to HATE gangsta rap. And the it all started with N.W.A, I Still like them but rarely listen. Gangsta rap is just stupid to me now

Gunsnhalen said:

i used to love N.W.A, Dr. Dre & the rest. But eh.. i have grown to HATE gangsta rap. And the it all started with N.W.A, I Still like them but rarely listen. Gangsta rap is just stupid to me now

Timmy84 said:

Gunsnhalen said:

i used to love N.W.A, Dr. Dre & the rest. But eh.. i have grown to HATE gangsta rap. And the it all started with N.W.A, I Still like them but rarely listen. Gangsta rap is just stupid to me now

He's sort of but not really accurate though. Gangsta rap has turned into a parody of itself lately.

smoothcriminal12 said:

Timmy84 said:

He's sort of but not really accurate though. Gangsta rap has turned into a parody of itself lately.

I'm older now , i can't pretend songs like bitches ain't shit, the next episode and rat-tat-tat are deep artiscally , and nowaday's it's just blah.

This is just my opinion, i loved the shit when i was younger. Now i feel all gangsta rap is whinning about how hard your supposed hood life was your supposed bitches, your supposed street cred, and you supposedly not fucking your homie on the side. Yet it's all about the homies getting that pussy pie to. PPPPPPPLEASE

smoothcriminal12 said:

Timmy84 said:

He's sort of but not really accurate though. Gangsta rap has turned into a parody of itself lately.

To be fair, "gangsta rap" under that naming is not really gangsta rap. It's poser rap. Gangsta rap died in 1997 imho.

Gunsnhalen said:

smoothcriminal12 said:

He's sort of but not really accurate though. Gangsta rap has turned into a parody of itself lately.

I'm older now , i can't pretend songs like bitches ain't shit, the next episode and rat-tat-tat are deep artiscally , and nowaday's it's just blah.

This is just my opinion, i loved the shit when i was younger. Now i feel all gangsta rap is whinning about how hard your supposed hood life was your supposed bitches, your supposed street cred, and you supposedly not fucking your homie on the side. Yet it's all about the homies getting that pussy pie to. PPPPPPPLEASE

Regardless if the "original" gangsta rappers were "faking the funk" or not, you can't say they ain't great music. It wasn't just the beat, their flows were good too mayne. Can't fake that even if everything else is a fable. As Fiddy Teeths once said, "a rapper's a liar".