Timmy84 said:

smoothcriminal12 said:

When Gangsta Rap took over, REAL hip-hop died.

I have to co-sign.

You should never blame an artist for the art they create. The blame almost exclusively goes to those who seek to make money off the art and exploit it and re-interpret it to suit their purposes. "Gangster rap" is a sensationalist buzzword that the media created. Rap was about the streets. Corporations made it the dog and pony show that it is today by picking and choosing what THEY wanted to represent the genre rather than showing the variety that did (and still does) exist.

[Edited 10/21/11 1:40am]

BlaqueKnight said:

Timmy84 said:

I have to co-sign.

Everybody seems to get that wrong because these asshole reporters and television stations who are trying to get a story always take a revisionist's view of hip-hop as if they were there the whole time. The media is NOT an authority on hip-hop because they fought showing it tooth and nail until they realized they could make money from exploiting it.

It wasn't gangster rap, it was THE GLAMOURIZATION AND EXPLOITATION OF THE GENRE that caused it to become socially irrelevant. Hip-hop is not dead. It has just been rendered ineffective.

You should never blame an artist for the art they create. The blame almost exclusively goes to those who seek to make money off the art and exploit it and re-interpret it to suit their purposes. "Gangster rap" is a sensationalist buzzword that the media created. Rap was about the streets. Corporations made it the dog and pony show that it is today by picking and choosing what THEY wanted to represent the genre rather than showing the variety that did (and still does) exist.

[Edited 10/21/11 1:40am]

I actually think Lil B is pretty damn funny and entertaining once in a while. Cause he is a caricature of the whole mainstream hip hop situation we have today. And I think he knows that pretty well. If you wanna listen to some dumb shit, listen to satire that sounds like dumb shit on first listen, but ends up eating up all the other bullshit on the radio today. Lil B even outshines many of these so called real and "thought provoking" rappers that are just copying what was hot in the golden era.

Arbwyth said:

HermesReborn said:

I never thought early gangsta rap was that Misogynistic...

It just wasn't politically correct.

Gangsta rap, was a perfect window into what ghetto life was.

(dealing with "hoes" was one of them)

I know I for one growing up in the ghetto, knew a lot of girls who where the village bicycles, everybody got a ride.

So I always saw it as an accurate depiction, it just wasn't PC...

Ghetto life is pretty damn misogynistic...

However that kinda snowballed through time from a lack of politically correctness to a new lifestyle.

Somehow we went from Fuck the police, and digging in the nappy dugout, to raps completely centered on money cars, and hoes.

I find Jay - Z's track "Big Pimpin" way more offensive then say something like nappy dugout...

Nappy Dugout is a story about a girl who happens to be a slut, a story I relate with, cause growing up in the hood, I knew many of them.

Whereas Big Pimpin, to me is the most idiotic Jigaboo Uncle Tom-foolery i've heard.

Jigga preaching about fucking and leaving girls, and spending money...

it's not only misogynistic, it's a negative view on black people.

When rap became centered on money and hoes,

thats when they lost me.

Oh, and who exactly was riding the girls who were the "village bicycles?" Wait, the guys who rode them were considered playas and studs, right? And those "sluts" you refer to? Who was fucking them, and why aren't you calling those dudes any names? OH WAIT. Because you buy fucking bullshit misogynist double standards about how women shouldn't have sex and men are allowed to have all the sex they want. So, how about a reality check: Either it's OK for women to have sex and also OK for men to have sex, or it isn't OK for either gender to have sex. (I'm gonna opt for the former.) There's no reason to name-call women for doing the same damn shit that men do. I have a theory that men who call women sluts secretly hate sex and are terrified of women, because otherwise why would you engage in behavior that discourages women from having sex?

But anyhow, more to the topic, I think the labels thought they could make a quick buck off of hip-hop, took the money and ran, and now hardly anybody remembers what it was and could have been and the profits haven't even been that great. Labels have stopped developing artists -- they just find a gimmick and push that person into the spotlight, and they burn out really quickly. The thing I don't get is that plenty of socially conscious artists HAVE made it big, yet labels cling to this stupid notion that all anyone wants is brain-dead party music (well OK, we want that SOME of the time, just not always) yet meanwhile they can't figure out why their profits are at record lows. Sure, they try to blame the Internet, and that's part of the story, but I think it's also an excuse. I'm very good at finding free music online, but when I really like something I go to iTunes and buy it, even if it would be super easy to pirate. That just doesn't happen as often lately.

Gunsnhalen's comment made me think of K'Naan when he talks about his upbringing in Mogadishu and makes fun of more mainstream rappers for trying to all compete in the Hard-Knock Life Olympics. I do think a lot of rappers did probably have a really nasty upbringing, but K'Naan proves that you don't have to act like an idiot because of it.

Interestingly, one of my friends did actually point out to me recently that rap might not actually be so much more misogynist right now than it was in the past -- for instance, I can't think of any artist or group out now that's on the level of 2 Live Crew. (Well, some of the Ying Yang Twins' stuff would've made them proud, but luckily those fools' success disappeared fast.) The problem seems to be a lack of variety -- even though there was shit like 2 Live Crew, at the same time you had A Tribe Called Quest, Salt n Pepa, Public Enemy, Digital Underground, Ice Cube, Monie Love, etc. The diversity in hip-hop during those years was really astounding when you think about it. If you didn't like party music, sexist lyrics, or whatever else, there was always another option that you didn't really have to look very hard to find. (Because you CAN find good hip-hop now -- you just have to look for it.)

You ventured off from hip hop into just a normal double standard of life.

That double standard existed before hip hop.

You can't blame it for pointing it out.

Hip hop was a a window into a world.

You can't hate the window.

Hate the world you live in.

HermesReborn said:

Arbwyth said:

Oh, and who exactly was riding the girls who were the "village bicycles?" Wait, the guys who rode them were considered playas and studs, right? And those "sluts" you refer to? Who was fucking them, and why aren't you calling those dudes any names? OH WAIT. Because you buy fucking bullshit misogynist double standards about how women shouldn't have sex and men are allowed to have all the sex they want. So, how about a reality check: Either it's OK for women to have sex and also OK for men to have sex, or it isn't OK for either gender to have sex. (I'm gonna opt for the former.) There's no reason to name-call women for doing the same damn shit that men do. I have a theory that men who call women sluts secretly hate sex and are terrified of women, because otherwise why would you engage in behavior that discourages women from having sex?

But anyhow, more to the topic, I think the labels thought they could make a quick buck off of hip-hop, took the money and ran, and now hardly anybody remembers what it was and could have been and the profits haven't even been that great. Labels have stopped developing artists -- they just find a gimmick and push that person into the spotlight, and they burn out really quickly. The thing I don't get is that plenty of socially conscious artists HAVE made it big, yet labels cling to this stupid notion that all anyone wants is brain-dead party music (well OK, we want that SOME of the time, just not always) yet meanwhile they can't figure out why their profits are at record lows. Sure, they try to blame the Internet, and that's part of the story, but I think it's also an excuse. I'm very good at finding free music online, but when I really like something I go to iTunes and buy it, even if it would be super easy to pirate. That just doesn't happen as often lately.

Gunsnhalen's comment made me think of K'Naan when he talks about his upbringing in Mogadishu and makes fun of more mainstream rappers for trying to all compete in the Hard-Knock Life Olympics. I do think a lot of rappers did probably have a really nasty upbringing, but K'Naan proves that you don't have to act like an idiot because of it.

Interestingly, one of my friends did actually point out to me recently that rap might not actually be so much more misogynist right now than it was in the past -- for instance, I can't think of any artist or group out now that's on the level of 2 Live Crew. (Well, some of the Ying Yang Twins' stuff would've made them proud, but luckily those fools' success disappeared fast.) The problem seems to be a lack of variety -- even though there was shit like 2 Live Crew, at the same time you had A Tribe Called Quest, Salt n Pepa, Public Enemy, Digital Underground, Ice Cube, Monie Love, etc. The diversity in hip-hop during those years was really astounding when you think about it. If you didn't like party music, sexist lyrics, or whatever else, there was always another option that you didn't really have to look very hard to find. (Because you CAN find good hip-hop now -- you just have to look for it.)

You ventured off from hip hop into just a normal double standard of life.

That double standard existed before hip hop.

You can't blame it for pointing it out.

Hip hop was a a window into a world.

You can't hate the window.

Hate the world you live in.

HermesReborn said:

Arbwyth said:

Oh, and who exactly was riding the girls who were the "village bicycles?" Wait, the guys who rode them were considered playas and studs, right? And those "sluts" you refer to? Who was fucking them, and why aren't you calling those dudes any names? OH WAIT. Because you buy fucking bullshit misogynist double standards about how women shouldn't have sex and men are allowed to have all the sex they want. So, how about a reality check: Either it's OK for women to have sex and also OK for men to have sex, or it isn't OK for either gender to have sex. (I'm gonna opt for the former.) There's no reason to name-call women for doing the same damn shit that men do. I have a theory that men who call women sluts secretly hate sex and are terrified of women, because otherwise why would you engage in behavior that discourages women from having sex?

But anyhow, more to the topic, I think the labels thought they could make a quick buck off of hip-hop, took the money and ran, and now hardly anybody remembers what it was and could have been and the profits haven't even been that great. Labels have stopped developing artists -- they just find a gimmick and push that person into the spotlight, and they burn out really quickly. The thing I don't get is that plenty of socially conscious artists HAVE made it big, yet labels cling to this stupid notion that all anyone wants is brain-dead party music (well OK, we want that SOME of the time, just not always) yet meanwhile they can't figure out why their profits are at record lows. Sure, they try to blame the Internet, and that's part of the story, but I think it's also an excuse. I'm very good at finding free music online, but when I really like something I go to iTunes and buy it, even if it would be super easy to pirate. That just doesn't happen as often lately.

Gunsnhalen's comment made me think of K'Naan when he talks about his upbringing in Mogadishu and makes fun of more mainstream rappers for trying to all compete in the Hard-Knock Life Olympics. I do think a lot of rappers did probably have a really nasty upbringing, but K'Naan proves that you don't have to act like an idiot because of it.

Interestingly, one of my friends did actually point out to me recently that rap might not actually be so much more misogynist right now than it was in the past -- for instance, I can't think of any artist or group out now that's on the level of 2 Live Crew. (Well, some of the Ying Yang Twins' stuff would've made them proud, but luckily those fools' success disappeared fast.) The problem seems to be a lack of variety -- even though there was shit like 2 Live Crew, at the same time you had A Tribe Called Quest, Salt n Pepa, Public Enemy, Digital Underground, Ice Cube, Monie Love, etc. The diversity in hip-hop during those years was really astounding when you think about it. If you didn't like party music, sexist lyrics, or whatever else, there was always another option that you didn't really have to look very hard to find. (Because you CAN find good hip-hop now -- you just have to look for it.)

You ventured off from hip hop into just a normal double standard of life.

That double standard existed before hip hop.

You can't blame it for pointing it out.

Hip hop was a a window into a world.

You can't hate the window.

Hate the world you live in.

Plus hip-hop wasn't the only genre that used "bitch" and "ho". Should I repost that x-rated version of Jackie Wilson and Lavern Baker's "Think Twice" again? Or any of those way early blues records where both male and female performers were singing about "you motherfuckers" and also said "bitches ain't shit" or "suck my pussy"?

Don't make me do it folks.

musicjunky318 said:

Rap was at its best when it was still on the streets at block parties before record companies decided to cash-in and exploit.

That's basically all I have to say.

[Edited 10/20/11 12:56pm]

Apply that 2 a lot of stuff Black folks created.

JabarR74 said:

I remember when Hip Hop came out when I was younger, the first songs I ever heard were Rapper's Delight (by Sugar Hill Gang) and The Message (by Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five), I thought, "This is very interesting" and throughout the 80s, it came in many forms, Party, Comedic and sometimes Politcal (thanks in part to Public Enemy), but it set a (sometimes) positive example for people that this was open to be a franchising market, then it became a worldwide multi-cultural phenomenon. Pretty soon, all races and sexes (like Beastie Boys, MC Lyte, etc.) jumped in onto the act, it also had its beefs (but in a positive way), its most famous (that I remember) was between L.L Cool J vs Kool Moe Dee. Back then, beefs like those were all about respect, influence and support, there was nothing negative about them either. Then, there was explicit rap, the first ones (that I know) to put cusswords on a record were the 2 Live Crew, but they did it all just for fun, then N.W.A comes in with the harsh realities of life and then from there on out, Gangsta rap ruled the music world all the way up to the late 90s, after the assasinations of 2Pac and the Notorious B.I.G., the world of Hip Hop had hit a huge crossroads. Then artists like Master P and Lil' Jon came in and brought their style in called, "Crunk" and from there, it went straight downhill. And as Crunk became a phenomenon, it also came with a lot of negative lyrics that glorifies what all of (most of) today's rappers rap about, talking about being pimps, glorifying drug use, packing weapons and that's why so many of our young kids today are heavily influenced by these rappers and there are teen pregnancies, more drug abuse than ever before, more gangs, kids being either jailed or killed and the beats are always the same. It's gotten to the point where Hip Hop is now slowly beginning to die (because the younger generation don't know how to respect its orgins and where it came from) and I feel that if there's no one who can come in and bring the positivity back, there will be nothing left. That's how I feel about it.

Wah.

Music used to be better back in the day.

Wah.

Blame the demise of hip hop on crunk music.

Wah.

Jabar, what has happened to hip hop is that hip hop's fans taste's have changed.

It's not good or bad: if you want good hip hop, I'm sure you know where to go

find it; and I'm pretty sure you know where to steer clear of shite hip hop as

well. I don't know why you're acting as if hip hop started out as some honest,

value-ridden artistic statement being expressed earnestly by urban youth artistes:

gimme a break.

There is no point in time when a genre of music was either good or bad.

Genres of music are always good/bad/in between.

Thing is I'm not in the category that believes hip-hop is dying... people think shit's always dying, but really it's consumers that sometimes don't know how to separate the bullshit from the real. Once people see through the bullshit, that performer loses his popularity (i.e., T Pain, Lil Jon, etc.)

So it's not destroyed.

Timmy84 said:

Thing is I'm not in the category that believes hip-hop is dying... people think shit's always dying, but really it's consumers that sometimes don't know how to separate the bullshit from the real. Once people see through the bullshit, that performer loses his popularity (i.e., T Pain, Lil Jon, etc.)

So it's not destroyed.

Don't forget 50 and Diddy too.

[Edited 10/21/11 11:14am]

RKJCNE said:

Timmy84 said:

Thing is I'm not in the category that believes hip-hop is dying... people think shit's always dying, but really it's consumers that sometimes don't know how to separate the bullshit from the real. Once people see through the bullshit, that performer loses his popularity (i.e., T Pain, Lil Jon, etc.)

So it's not destroyed.

Don't forget 50 and Diddy too.

[Edited 10/21/11 11:14am]

True lol and JA lol

Timmy84 said:

RKJCNE said:

Don't forget 50 and Diddy too.

[Edited 10/21/11 11:14am]

True lol and JA lol

The only relevant rapper who I think is overdue on being called on their bullshit is Jay. The last thing he did that got me excited was 99 problems.

RKJCNE said:

Timmy84 said:

True lol and JA lol

The only relevant rapper who I think is overdue on being called on their bullshit is Jay. The last thing he did that got me excited was 99 problems.

Oh he BEEN called on it. Thing is people keep saying that he's evil. I don't think he's evil, he's a straight up buster who's too dumb to be evil despite what some folks say about him. He had talent but he lost it on the road to billions.

Timmy84 said:

RKJCNE said:

The only relevant rapper who I think is overdue on being called on their bullshit is Jay. The last thing he did that got me excited was 99 problems.

Oh he BEEN called on it. Thing is people keep saying that he's evil. I don't think he's evil, he's a straight up buster who's too dumb to be evil despite what some folks say about him. He had talent but he lost it on the road to billions.

Sure he's been called out, Nas shoulda ended him, but he is still doing miles better than most other rappers. I think his marriage to Bey really keeps his status up.

RKJCNE said:

Timmy84 said:

Oh he BEEN called on it. Thing is people keep saying that he's evil. I don't think he's evil, he's a straight up buster who's too dumb to be evil despite what some folks say about him. He had talent but he lost it on the road to billions.

Sure he's been called out, Nas shoulda ended him, but he is still doing miles better than most other rappers. I think his marriage to Bey really keeps his status up.

Beyonce is all he got. If they divorced, that would be it for him.

duccichucka said:

JabarR74 said:

I remember when Hip Hop came out when I was younger, the first songs I ever heard were Rapper's Delight (by Sugar Hill Gang) and The Message (by Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five), I thought, "This is very interesting" and throughout the 80s, it came in many forms, Party, Comedic and sometimes Politcal (thanks in part to Public Enemy), but it set a (sometimes) positive example for people that this was open to be a franchising market, then it became a worldwide multi-cultural phenomenon. Pretty soon, all races and sexes (like Beastie Boys, MC Lyte, etc.) jumped in onto the act, it also had its beefs (but in a positive way), its most famous (that I remember) was between L.L Cool J vs Kool Moe Dee. Back then, beefs like those were all about respect, influence and support, there was nothing negative about them either. Then, there was explicit rap, the first ones (that I know) to put cusswords on a record were the 2 Live Crew, but they did it all just for fun, then N.W.A comes in with the harsh realities of life and then from there on out, Gangsta rap ruled the music world all the way up to the late 90s, after the assasinations of 2Pac and the Notorious B.I.G., the world of Hip Hop had hit a huge crossroads. Then artists like Master P and Lil' Jon came in and brought their style in called, "Crunk" and from there, it went straight downhill. And as Crunk became a phenomenon, it also came with a lot of negative lyrics that glorifies what all of (most of) today's rappers rap about, talking about being pimps, glorifying drug use, packing weapons and that's why so many of our young kids today are heavily influenced by these rappers and there are teen pregnancies, more drug abuse than ever before, more gangs, kids being either jailed or killed and the beats are always the same. It's gotten to the point where Hip Hop is now slowly beginning to die (because the younger generation don't know how to respect its orgins and where it came from) and I feel that if there's no one who can come in and bring the positivity back, there will be nothing left. That's how I feel about it.

Wah.

Music used to be better back in the day.

Wah.

Blame the demise of hip hop on crunk music.

Wah.

Jabar, what has happened to hip hop is that hip hop's fans taste's have changed.

It's not good or bad: if you want good hip hop, I'm sure you know where to go

find it; and I'm pretty sure you know where to steer clear of shite hip hop as

well. I don't know why you're acting as if hip hop started out as some honest,

value-ridden artistic statement being expressed earnestly by urban youth artistes:

gimme a break.

There is no point in time when a genre of music was either good or bad.

Genres of music are always good/bad/in between.

Yes & No...

You're playing around with the concept of subjectivity.

However, if you wan't an honest assesment on the "quality" of genres, or music as a whole, you have to factor in several of the variables taht surround them, one being the ever changing musical climate. Two, the extreme ease of musical creation. Three and most importantly the money factor, the cost and value of music.

Music has slumped because all of those variables have attacked one another in a viscious circle.

Because nobody is technically "paying" for music anymore, the label climate has become hostile, labels don't spend money on quality. As a a matter of fact they don't spend money on anything. So they invest on the cheapest music that shows somewhat interest.

Now you say sure thats fine, but the public chooses whether that music is good or not?

Well no...

The record industry as well as any other consumer based medium have learned the brilliant techniques of pavlovian conditioning, and are masters of mass conversion.

It's pretty simple, You may hate a song, but if you listen to it enough times, you'll generally start to like it.

As a result of that simple notion, Labels took over radio stations, and bombarded the populace with the stimulation of their artist. enabling them to control the musical trends, rather than the public.

Don't think of this as a conspiracy, it's just good business.

So if you're going to judge a piece of music on it's merit's you have to factor in that everything is blocked out, and choice is an illusion.

However... this control has backfired, and people have begun to realize the illusion, thus things like top 40 hits, record sales, award shows have become obsolete. they have no value.

Things that use to be held at a high regard, over ten years ago.

Hip Hop, and music has been deteriorating because of this fatalistic capitalist machinery.

Labels instead of music, are concerned with creating brands that sell.

The brands that sell in hip hop, is a retelling of the same "ragged dick" and struggling upward, Horatio Algeresque story of the American Dream.

They show their artist as millionares, who drive fancy cars and have women, and show them as something most americans want to be.

They aren't selling music, they're selling an image to a generation of failed seekers, who think that one day they'll be like them.

It's nothing new. As a matter of fact, you could even say they've been doing this since the beginning, and have only mastered it now.

The state of it is something that supersedes normal conventions of subjectivity, based on the notion that a person is smart, but when it comes to masses, people are dumb farm animals that can be easily led. However the latter might be an understatement, as the recording industry is slowly finding out.

It seems that perhaps there is a collective unconsious within us all that might be able to indentify quality music...

It's why the industry is suffer with each day, struggling to adapt.

RKJCNE said:

Timmy84 said:

True lol and JA lol

The only relevant rapper who I think is overdue on being called on their bullshit is Jay. The last thing he did that got me excited was 99 problems.

.........which is more of a credit to the Ice-T & Brother Marquis original.

bboy87 said:

Great hip hop is still around. There's several artists who are out there who are making great work

"I got a bitch who's old ass titties give out powered milk"

Yes, its wrong to laugh at that. Yes, its funny.

HermesReborn said:

duccichucka said:

Wah.

Music used to be better back in the day.

Wah.

Blame the demise of hip hop on crunk music.

Wah.

Jabar, what has happened to hip hop is that hip hop's fans taste's have changed.

It's not good or bad: if you want good hip hop, I'm sure you know where to go

find it; and I'm pretty sure you know where to steer clear of shite hip hop as

well. I don't know why you're acting as if hip hop started out as some honest,

value-ridden artistic statement being expressed earnestly by urban youth artistes:

gimme a break.

There is no point in time when a genre of music was either good or bad.

Genres of music are always good/bad/in between.

Yes & No...

You're playing around with the concept of subjectivity.

However, if you wan't an honest assesment on the "quality" of genres, or music as a whole, you have to factor in several of the variables taht surround them, one being the ever changing musical climate. Two, the extreme ease of musical creation. Three and most importantly the money factor, the cost and value of music.

Music has slumped because all of those variables have attacked one another in a viscious circle.

Because nobody is technically "paying" for music anymore, the label climate has become hostile, labels don't spend money on quality. As a a matter of fact they don't spend money on anything. So they invest on the cheapest music that shows somewhat interest.

Now you say sure thats fine, but the public chooses whether that music is good or not?

Well no...

The record industry as well as any other consumer based medium have learned the brilliant techniques of pavlovian conditioning, and are masters of mass conversion.

It's pretty simple, You may hate a song, but if you listen to it enough times, you'll generally start to like it.

As a result of that simple notion, Labels took over radio stations, and bombarded the populace with the stimulation of their artist. enabling them to control the musical trends, rather than the public.

Don't think of this as a conspiracy, it's just good business.

So if you're going to judge a piece of music on it's merit's you have to factor in that everything is blocked out, and choice is an illusion.

However... this control has backfired, and people have begun to realize the illusion, thus things like top 40 hits, record sales, award shows have become obsolete. they have no value.

Things that use to be held at a high regard, over ten years ago.

Hip Hop, and music has been deteriorating because of this fatalistic capitalist machinery.

Labels instead of music, are concerned with creating brands that sell.

The brands that sell in hip hop, is a retelling of the same "ragged dick" and struggling upward, Horatio Algeresque story of the American Dream.

They show their artist as millionares, who drive fancy cars and have women, and show them as something most americans want to be.

They aren't selling music, they're selling an image to a generation of failed seekers, who think that one day they'll be like them.

It's nothing new. As a matter of fact, you could even say they've been doing this since the beginning, and have only mastered it now.

The state of it is something that supersedes normal conventions of subjectivity, based on the notion that a person is smart, but when it comes to masses, people are dumb farm animals that can be easily led. However the latter might be an understatement, as the recording industry is slowly finding out.

It seems that perhaps there is a collective unconsious within us all that might be able to indentify quality music...

It's why the industry is suffer with each day, struggling to adapt.

I think your heart was in the right place, but this post makes no sense:

I'm not playing around with subjectivity when it comes to stating that there is

no genre of any art form that is completely devoid of "good," "bad," or "in

between" qualities. And I'm not playing around with subjectivity when it comes to

stating that we can never qualitatively say when there was a time when any genre

of music was "bad" or "good;" or even quantify a time when music was "good"

or "bad."

I'm not "playing" with anything - the good or bad constituents of music are subjective.

There is no scientific test available that proves:

1. Joe Jonas sucks - he's bad

2. Prince was awesome from 1982-1992 - he's good

3. Beethoven's 9th was amazing - he's good

4. Common is a decent emcee - he's aight

Now, I can give you an intelligent reason why I opine that Joe Jonas sucks; I

can offer an intelligent reason why I think Prince was awesome during that decade.

I can even offer reasons as to why Beethoven's 9th transcended his contemporaries.

But I do not have, and neither do you, the data necessary from a scientific study that

could ever tell us that music is deteriorating. Music is not deteriorating. Look

at the Billboard charts since they began charting and ranking popular music: what has

been supremely popular in the US has always sucked:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_number-one_hits_%28United_States%29

There are some good tunes that charted; but most of the shite on this list is in

fact shite.

Point?

There has never been a time when music was either Good or Bad. We can

talk about taste but there has never been a time when taste was concrete

and objective. So, cut the crap with all this

Music sucks today!

Music was better back in the day!

Music isn't the same anymore!

Music is not "slumping." If you think that the reason why music sucks today

is because shit is free, then you're a ding dong. Music is free today because of

technology - it has nothing to do with the quality of music. Music is stolen today

because of technological advances, not because legions of music fans are making

a statement that we will not buy shitty music anymore! There are so many

studies done that prove that pirating was not the downfall of the industry. Look

elsewhere for reasons as to why the music industry has failed. It hasn't failed

anyways - it's changed. It hasn't failed - the suits used to making bank because

of album sales ain't making bank anymore tell us that it is failing. The industry

just changed, that is all.

And music is not failing because of a "fatalistic capitalist machinery."

You'd have to prove when music itself was not failing in the same context

and you can not possibly do this. And you cannot possibly prove that an

art form is failing - that is subjective. Physical sales are down, sure. But sales

today are not down because of shitty music: remember, NSync sold 2million

copies of shite music in one week back in 2000. That fact pretty much shuts

down that argument.

...So stop with all the "collective unconsciousness that has the ability to dictate what

good quality music is" nonsense. That's horseshit. If you thought that radio at one

point in time, played quality music, then you are a ding dong again. To suggest that

radio at one point in time played mostly good music is to assume that there was a time

when music was mostly good. Again, I refer you to the Billboard url - popular music

will always be mostly charged with bullshit, yet infused with goodshit.....

Classical music: great art form, great genre. Full of giants and retards. Full of

beautiful music and bullshit. Music that will endure forever and music that shouldn't

be played ever again.

Jazz music: great art form, great genre. Full of giants and retards. Full of

beautiful music and bullshit. Music that will endure forever and music that shouldn't

be played ever again.

Pop music:...catching my drift?

Good music, whatever that is to you or whatever that means to you, will never die.

It will and can only change.

/rant