Timmy84 said:

Regardless if the "original" gangsta rappers were "faking the funk" or not, you can't say they ain't great music. It wasn't just the beat, their flows were good too mayne. Can't fake that even if everything else is a fable. As Fiddy Teeths once said, "a rapper's a liar".

It's ok music to me now, but not bad. I still like N.W.A & Dre, i just don't listen to them hardly ever now. Hell i take Cube's solo work anyday..

DR. Dre is past his prime not production wise he is still on top. But rapping wise.... oh lord he needs to give it a day.

I could give a damn about N.W.A's entire catalog (though they had classics obviously) but Dre, Cube and Snoop were the best out of that lineup.

Timmy84 said:

Regardless if the "original" gangsta rappers were "faking the funk" or not, you can't say they ain't great music. It wasn't just the beat, their flows were good too mayne. Can't fake that even if everything else is a fable. As Fiddy Teeths once said, "a rapper's a liar".

It really was good music but don't get butthurt because many people have moved on and don't want the negativity that surrounds it in their life. You catching feeling in this thread

Timmy84 said:

I could give a damn about N.W.A's entire catalog (though they had classics obviously) but Dre, Cube and Snoop were the best out of that lineup.

HermesReborn said:

Timmy84 said:

I could give a damn about N.W.A's entire catalog (though they had classics obviously) but Dre, Cube and Snoop were the best out of that lineup.

One of my favorite songs.

babybugz said:

Timmy84 said:

Regardless if the "original" gangsta rappers were "faking the funk" or not, you can't say they ain't great music. It wasn't just the beat, their flows were good too mayne. Can't fake that even if everything else is a fable. As Fiddy Teeths once said, "a rapper's a liar".

It really was good music but don't get butthurt because many people have moved on and don't want the negativity that surrounds it in their life. You catching feeling in this thread

Lol, idk if it's exactly that. Cause i love punk to i love angry... i just find gangsta rap to be silly a lot of the times now. They act like it was a constant war zone in there ''hoods'' , they liked to make up stories about it that's cool. but i take it just as stories now, i mean there's shit going on in Burma my nukka, and places where REAL SHIT is going dowm. Your crackhead hood is not shit

I never thought early gangsta rap was that Misogynistic...

It just wasn't politically correct.

Gangsta rap, was a perfect window into what ghetto life was.

(dealing with "hoes" was one of them)

I know I for one growing up in the ghetto, knew a lot of girls who where the village bicycles, everybody got a ride.

So I always saw it as an accurate depiction, it just wasn't PC...

Ghetto life is pretty damn misogynistic...

However that kinda snowballed through time from a lack of politically correctness to a new lifestyle.

Somehow we went from Fuck the police, and digging in the nappy dugout, to raps completely centered on money cars, and hoes.

I find Jay - Z's track "Big Pimpin" way more offensive then say something like nappy dugout...

Nappy Dugout is a story about a girl who happens to be a slut, a story I relate with, cause growing up in the hood, I knew many of them.

Whereas Big Pimpin, to me is the most idiotic Jigaboo Uncle Tom-foolery i've heard.

Jigga preaching about fucking and leaving girls, and spending money...

it's not only misogynistic, it's a negative view on black people.

When rap became centered on money and hoes,

thats when they lost me.

Gunsnhalen said:

babybugz said:

It really was good music but don't get butthurt because many people have moved on and don't want the negativity that surrounds it in their life. You catching feeling in this thread

Lol, idk if it's exactly that. Cause i love punk to i love angry... i just find gangsta rap to be silly a lot of the times now. They act like it was a constant war zone in there ''hoods'' , they liked to make up stories about it that's cool. but i take it just as stories now, i mean there's shit going on in Burma my nukka, and places where REAL SHIT is going dowm. Your crackhead hood is not shit

Well Damn

babybugz said:

Timmy84 said:

Regardless if the "original" gangsta rappers were "faking the funk" or not, you can't say they ain't great music. It wasn't just the beat, their flows were good too mayne. Can't fake that even if everything else is a fable. As Fiddy Teeths once said, "a rapper's a liar".

It really was good music but don't get butthurt because many people have moved on and don't want the negativity that surrounds it in their life. You catching feeling in this thread

HermesReborn said:

I never thought early gangsta rap was that Misogynistic...

It just wasn't politically correct.

Gangsta rap, was a perfect window into what ghetto life was.

(dealing with "hoes" was one of them)

I know I for one growing up in the ghetto, knew a lot of girls who where the village bicycles, everybody got a ride.

So I always saw it as an accurate depiction, it just wasn't PC...

Ghetto life is pretty damn misogynistic...

However that kinda snowballed through time from a lack of politically correctness to a new lifestyle.

Somehow we went from Fuck the police, and digging in the nappy dugout, to raps completely centered on money cars, and hoes.

I find Jay - Z's track "Big Pimpin" way more offensive then say something like nappy dugout...

Nappy Dugout is a story about a girl who happens to be a slut, a story I relate with, cause growing up in the hood, I knew many of them.

Whereas Big Pimpin, to me is the most idiotic Jigaboo Uncle Tom-foolery i've heard.

Jigga preaching about fucking and leaving girls, and spending money...

it's not only misogynistic, it's a negative view on black people.

When rap became centered on money and hoes,

thats when they lost me.

Exactly! Jay-Z was the downfall of gangsta rap. Fuck that bitch.

babybugz said:

HermesReborn said:

One of my favorite songs.

Classic.

I feel like most associate east coast rappers as the downfall and me being from the east coast I don't know how to take that But I do enjoy east and west the same and think there was good and bad in both.

[Edited 10/20/11 19:44pm]

Gangsta rap died when Pac and Biggie died!

babybugz said:

I feel like most associate east coast rappers as the downfall and me being from the east coast I don't know how to take that But I do enjoy east and west the same and think there was good and bad in both.

[Edited 10/20/11 19:44pm]

I don't look at it like that since the EAST COAST is where it all started from. It was the dissing of the coasts that was the downfall. I don't roll with that and to be honest it was mainly the east coast rappers who took shit to heart when Pac said "fuck BIG" after what they went through so they tried to "stand up" for their "brother" and I hated them for it. I was down with the west coast actually when everything went down until Pac got killed. People protecting their territories and shit, it was silly, stupid, idiotic and lives got lost because of that b.s. and the media didn't help matters at all. I actually blame the media for what happened to hip-hop especially after the new millennium hit.

Timmy84 said:

babybugz said:

I feel like most associate east coast rappers as the downfall and me being from the east coast I don't know how to take that But I do enjoy east and west the same and think there was good and bad in both.

[Edited 10/20/11 19:44pm]

I don't look at it like that since the EAST COAST is where it all started from. It was the dissing of the coasts that was the downfall. I don't roll with that and to be honest it was mainly the east coast rappers who took shit to heart when Pac said "fuck BIG" after what they went through so they tried to "stand up" for their "brother" and I hated them for it. I was down with the west coast actually when everything went down until Pac got killed. People protecting their territories and shit, it was silly, stupid, idiotic and lives got lost because of that b.s. and the media didn't help matters at all. I actually blame the media for what happened to hip-hop especially after the new millennium hit.

I'm a 2pac fan I like big but not a huge fan maybe because I heard him enough growing up but even then I wasn't into him . I did like puffy back in the day I thought he had some good joints with ma$e , mary etc but yeah it's sad what happen. Suge wasn't really making the west coast look good as well.

babybugz said:

Timmy84 said:

I don't look at it like that since the EAST COAST is where it all started from. It was the dissing of the coasts that was the downfall. I don't roll with that and to be honest it was mainly the east coast rappers who took shit to heart when Pac said "fuck BIG" after what they went through so they tried to "stand up" for their "brother" and I hated them for it. I was down with the west coast actually when everything went down until Pac got killed. People protecting their territories and shit, it was silly, stupid, idiotic and lives got lost because of that b.s. and the media didn't help matters at all. I actually blame the media for what happened to hip-hop especially after the new millennium hit.

I'm a 2pac fan I like big but not a huge fan maybe because I heard him enough growing up but even then I wasn't into him . I did like puffy back in the day I thought he had some good joints with ma$e , mary etc but yeah it's sad what happen. Suge wasn't really making the west coast look good as well.

Yeah Suge definitely had as much to blame as Puff. Both are lowlives. Sure they both ran tight labels but they shitted the rap industry IMHO especially after the deaths of Pac and BIG.

Timmy84 said:

babybugz said:

I'm a 2pac fan I like big but not a huge fan maybe because I heard him enough growing up but even then I wasn't into him . I did like puffy back in the day I thought he had some good joints with ma$e , mary etc but yeah it's sad what happen. Suge wasn't really making the west coast look good as well.

Yeah Suge definitely had as much to blame as Puff. Both are lowlives. Sure they both ran tight labels but they shitted the rap industry IMHO especially after the deaths of Pac and BIG.

HermesReborn said:

Timmy84 said:

Yeah Suge definitely had as much to blame as Puff. Both are lowlives. Sure they both ran tight labels but they shitted the rap industry IMHO especially after the deaths of Pac and BIG.

Modern day Stephin' Fetchit.

HermesReborn said:

I never thought early gangsta rap was that Misogynistic...

It just wasn't politically correct.

Gangsta rap, was a perfect window into what ghetto life was.

(dealing with "hoes" was one of them)

I know I for one growing up in the ghetto, knew a lot of girls who where the village bicycles, everybody got a ride.

So I always saw it as an accurate depiction, it just wasn't PC...

Ghetto life is pretty damn misogynistic...

However that kinda snowballed through time from a lack of politically correctness to a new lifestyle.

Somehow we went from Fuck the police, and digging in the nappy dugout, to raps completely centered on money cars, and hoes.

I find Jay - Z's track "Big Pimpin" way more offensive then say something like nappy dugout...

Nappy Dugout is a story about a girl who happens to be a slut, a story I relate with, cause growing up in the hood, I knew many of them.

Whereas Big Pimpin, to me is the most idiotic Jigaboo Uncle Tom-foolery i've heard.

Jigga preaching about fucking and leaving girls, and spending money...

it's not only misogynistic, it's a negative view on black people.

When rap became centered on money and hoes,

thats when they lost me.

Oh, and who exactly was riding the girls who were the "village bicycles?" Wait, the guys who rode them were considered playas and studs, right? And those "sluts" you refer to? Who was fucking them, and why aren't you calling those dudes any names? OH WAIT. Because you buy fucking bullshit misogynist double standards about how women shouldn't have sex and men are allowed to have all the sex they want. So, how about a reality check: Either it's OK for women to have sex and also OK for men to have sex, or it isn't OK for either gender to have sex. (I'm gonna opt for the former.) There's no reason to name-call women for doing the same damn shit that men do. I have a theory that men who call women sluts secretly hate sex and are terrified of women, because otherwise why would you engage in behavior that discourages women from having sex?

But anyhow, more to the topic, I think the labels thought they could make a quick buck off of hip-hop, took the money and ran, and now hardly anybody remembers what it was and could have been and the profits haven't even been that great. Labels have stopped developing artists -- they just find a gimmick and push that person into the spotlight, and they burn out really quickly. The thing I don't get is that plenty of socially conscious artists HAVE made it big, yet labels cling to this stupid notion that all anyone wants is brain-dead party music (well OK, we want that SOME of the time, just not always) yet meanwhile they can't figure out why their profits are at record lows. Sure, they try to blame the Internet, and that's part of the story, but I think it's also an excuse. I'm very good at finding free music online, but when I really like something I go to iTunes and buy it, even if it would be super easy to pirate. That just doesn't happen as often lately.

Gunsnhalen's comment made me think of K'Naan when he talks about his upbringing in Mogadishu and makes fun of more mainstream rappers for trying to all compete in the Hard-Knock Life Olympics. I do think a lot of rappers did probably have a really nasty upbringing, but K'Naan proves that you don't have to act like an idiot because of it.

Interestingly, one of my friends did actually point out to me recently that rap might not actually be so much more misogynist right now than it was in the past -- for instance, I can't think of any artist or group out now that's on the level of 2 Live Crew. (Well, some of the Ying Yang Twins' stuff would've made them proud, but luckily those fools' success disappeared fast.) The problem seems to be a lack of variety -- even though there was shit like 2 Live Crew, at the same time you had A Tribe Called Quest, Salt n Pepa, Public Enemy, Digital Underground, Ice Cube, Monie Love, etc. The diversity in hip-hop during those years was really astounding when you think about it. If you didn't like party music, sexist lyrics, or whatever else, there was always another option that you didn't really have to look very hard to find. (Because you CAN find good hip-hop now -- you just have to look for it.)

I'm very selective with rap, but there was good rap 10/20 years ago and there is good rap now:

I don't get why people get so crabby about music these days! You can always find the good stuff, it just takes some searching.

^ Bitter about something?

Thing is I know some busters are being promoted to be hip-hop but thank God that there's still great emcees out there! Rap is not a lost art form. But the promotion is fucked up, that's all.

Arbwyth said:

HermesReborn said:

I never thought early gangsta rap was that Misogynistic...

It just wasn't politically correct.

Gangsta rap, was a perfect window into what ghetto life was.

(dealing with "hoes" was one of them)

I know I for one growing up in the ghetto, knew a lot of girls who where the village bicycles, everybody got a ride.

So I always saw it as an accurate depiction, it just wasn't PC...

Ghetto life is pretty damn misogynistic...

However that kinda snowballed through time from a lack of politically correctness to a new lifestyle.

Somehow we went from Fuck the police, and digging in the nappy dugout, to raps completely centered on money cars, and hoes.

I find Jay - Z's track "Big Pimpin" way more offensive then say something like nappy dugout...

Nappy Dugout is a story about a girl who happens to be a slut, a story I relate with, cause growing up in the hood, I knew many of them.

Whereas Big Pimpin, to me is the most idiotic Jigaboo Uncle Tom-foolery i've heard.

Jigga preaching about fucking and leaving girls, and spending money...

it's not only misogynistic, it's a negative view on black people.

When rap became centered on money and hoes,

thats when they lost me.

Oh, and who exactly was riding the girls who were the "village bicycles?" Wait, the guys who rode them were considered playas and studs, right? And those "sluts" you refer to? Who was fucking them, and why aren't you calling those dudes any names? OH WAIT. Because you buy fucking bullshit misogynist double standards about how women shouldn't have sex and men are allowed to have all the sex they want. So, how about a reality check: Either it's OK for women to have sex and also OK for men to have sex, or it isn't OK for either gender to have sex. (I'm gonna opt for the former.) There's no reason to name-call women for doing the same damn shit that men do. I have a theory that men who call women sluts secretly hate sex and are terrified of women, because otherwise why would you engage in behavior that discourages women from having sex?
i am with you on the bullshit double standard.

Gunsnhalen's comment made me think of K'Naan when he talks about his upbringing in Mogadishu and makes fun of more mainstream rappers for trying to all compete in the Hard-Knock Life Olympics. I do think a lot of rappers did probably have a really nasty upbringing, but K'Naan proves that you don't have to act like an idiot because of it.

i think this has to do with the pakaging of american rap/hip hop but also the difference btween the way amercian blacks and africans from different countries identify themselves. black american identity still seems,to me, to be tied into the ghetto, thugged out thing, hard-luck olympics you mention. at any rate i grew up a white middleclass-midwestern american twat so i have little personal experience with all that, and its for a different thread.

Interestingly, one of my friends did actually point out to me recently that rap might not actually be so much more misogynist right now than it was in the past -- for instance, I can't think of any artist or group out now that's on the level of 2 Live Crew. (Well, some of the Ying Yang Twins' stuff would've made them proud, but luckily those fools' success disappeared fast.) The problem seems to be a lack of variety -- even though there was shit like 2 Live Crew, at the same time you had A Tribe Called Quest, Salt n Pepa, Public Enemy, Digital Underground, Ice Cube, Monie Love, etc. The diversity in hip-hop during those years was really astounding when you think about it. If you didn't like party music, sexist lyrics, or whatever else, there was always another option that you didn't really have to look very hard to find. (Because you CAN find good hip-hop now -- you just have to look for it.)

i get what youre sayiin here too. but iirc, 2live crew were considered a novelty rap thing sorta like biz markie. they were never taken on the same level as their contemporaries although they had a huge following. i was living in orlando,fl in 90-91 and they were HUGE in the way that the star trek conventions are to a certain type.

Coonery & Buffoonery happened 2 Hip-Hop!!!!!!!

Great hip hop is still around. There's several artists who are out there who are making great work

bboy87 said:

Great hip hop is still around. There's several artists who are out there who are making great work

Yep. Promotion's fucked up by the industry but there are some great acts. You posted a few of them in the past anyways.

Timmy84 said:

bboy87 said:

Great hip hop is still around. There's several artists who are out there who are making great work

Yep. Promotion's fucked up by the industry but there are some great acts. You posted a few of them in the past anyways.

Not even that, folks are now doing it on their own. Blue, The Rocketeers, Immortal Technique, Big Sean, K-Os, Lupe, Q-Tip..... the talent is there, but you gotta choose if you wanna look for it. That's the case with any genre these days unfortunately

bboy87 said:

Timmy84 said:

Yep. Promotion's fucked up by the industry but there are some great acts. You posted a few of them in the past anyways.

Not even that, folks are now doing it on their own. Blue, The Rocketeers, Immortal Technique, Big Sean, K-Os, Lupe, Q-Tip..... the talent is there, but you gotta choose if you wanna look for it. That's the case with any genre these days unfortunately

Definitely man, definitely...

Hip Hop starting dying when rappers with skills started dumbing down their lyrics for record sales & radio play. When it all started becoming about 'money, hoes & clothes' it was a sign of the end of days! When the videos all started being shot at mansions and on yachts it was just dudes glorifying the wrong stuff and sending out the wrong image for the next generation to follow.

THINGS THAT WERE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE DOWN FALL OF HIP-HOP/RAP (musically-speaking):

1. Major record labels & corporate FM radio station place focus only on the gangsta rap and forsake all other hip-hop/rap sub-genres.

2. Dr. Dre making beats at the downtempo of 95 BPM and every hip-hop producer/beatmaker copying THE same tempo for almost 2 decades long.

3. Sean "Puffy/Puff Daddy/P.Ditty" Combs (via Mary J. Blige as his muse) combining hip-hop with r&b/soul to create hip-hop soul, which killed r&b/soul itself by becoming hip-hop/r&b.

4. The murder of 2pac.

5. Master P/No Limit Records losing popularity to Ca$h Money Records (specially Juvenile , Lil'Wayne, & Big Tymers) and never fully recovered.

6. OutKast stopped making new tracks as a duo (Andre 3000 is more to blame than Big Boi).

7. Interscorpe/A&M Records CEO Jimmy Iovine successfully convincing The Black Eyed Peas (especially will.i.am) to "sell-out" their alternative rap principles in exchange for crossover hip-pop success.