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Reply #330 posted 10/29/11 9:04am

dag

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Timmy, if you're not watching, you need to see this. You really need to see it. TILL THE END.

http://www.youtube.com/wa...WIQnNG_jgk

[Edited 10/29/11 2:08am]

"When Michael Jackson is just singing and dancing, you just think this is an astonishing talent. And he has had this astounding talent all his life, but we want him to be floored as well. We really don´t like the idea that he could have it all."
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Reply #331 posted 10/29/11 9:11am

Timmy84

dag said:

Timmy, if you're not watching, you need to see this. You really need to see it. TILL THE END.

http://www.youtube.com/wa...WIQnNG_jgk

[Edited 10/29/11 2:08am]

Ooh... I might check it out later. From the comments, people are shaking their heads at the "doc".

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Reply #332 posted 10/29/11 9:15am

dag

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Timmy84 said:

dag said:

Timmy, if you're not watching, you need to see this. You really need to see it. TILL THE END.

http://www.youtube.com/wa...WIQnNG_jgk

[Edited 10/29/11 2:08am]

Ooh... I might check it out later. From the comments, people are shaking their heads at the "doc".

You MUST check it out! They presented a jury a graph of MJ's visits to Klein adding several visits to make it seem he was getting more.

ANd compare it to for example, Steinberg's or Shafer's cross examination and how they kept their composure and how what they said made sense and they NEVER changed their stories.

I mean there were several pointless testimonies, but the key ones are Shafer's, Steinbergs, White's and Waldman's. I think they are a must see.

"When Michael Jackson is just singing and dancing, you just think this is an astonishing talent. And he has had this astounding talent all his life, but we want him to be floored as well. We really don´t like the idea that he could have it all."
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Reply #333 posted 10/29/11 6:51pm

dag

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An article from yahoo: http://news.yahoo.com/def...59729.html

LOS ANGELES (AP) — With dramatic courtroom testimony, attorneys for Michael Jackson's doctor have dropped the bombshell they've been hinting at for months — an expert opinion accusing the singer of causing his own death.

Dr. Paul White said Jackson injected himself with a dose of propofol after an initial dose by Dr. Conrad Murray wore off. He also calculated that Jackson gave himself another sedative, lorazepam, by taking pills after an infusion of that drug and others by Murray failed to put him to sleep.

That combination of drugs could have had "lethal consequences," the defense team's star scientific witness said Friday.

Murray has pleaded not guilty to involuntary manslaughter.

White showed jurors a series of charts and simulations he created in the past two days to support the defense theory. He also did a courtroom demonstration of how the milky white anesthetic propofol could have entered Jackson's veins in the small dose that Murray claimed he gave the insomniac star.

White said he accepted Murray's statement to police that he administered only 25 milligrams of propofol after a night-long struggle to get Jackson to sleep with infusions of other sedatives.

"How long would that (propofol) have had an effect on Mr. Jackson?" asked defense attorney J. Michael Flanagan.

"If you're talking effect on the central nervous system, 10 to 15 minutes max," White said.

He then said Jackson could have injected himself with another 25 milligrams during the time Murray has said he left the singer's room.

"So you think it was self-injected propofol between 11:30 and 12?" asked Flanagan.

"In my opinion, yes," White said.

The witness, one of the early researchers of the anesthetic, contradicted testimony by Dr. Steven Shafer, his longtime colleague and collaborator. Shafer earlier testified Jackson would have been groggy from all the medications he was administered during the night and could not have given himself the drug in the two minutes Murray said he was gone.

"He can't give himself an injection if he's asleep," Shafer told jurors last week. He called the defense theory of self-administration "crazy."

White's testimony belied no animosity between the two experts, who have worked together for 30 years. Although White was called out by the judge one day for making derogatory comments to a TV reporter about the prosecution case, White was respectful and soft spoken on the witness stand.

When Flanagan made a mistake and called him "Dr. Shafer" a few times, White said, "I'm honored."

The prosecution asked for more time to study the computer program White used before cross-examining him. Superior Court Judge Michael Pastor granted the request, saying he too was baffled by the complicated simulations of Jackson's fatal dose. He recessed court early and gave prosecutors the weekend to catch up before questioning White on Monday.

The surprise disclosure of White's new theory caused a disruption of the court schedule, and the judge had worried aloud that jurors, who expected the trial to be over this week, were being inconvenienced. But the seven men and five women appeared engaged in the testimony and offered no complaints when the judge apologized for the delay.

Prosecutors could call Shafer back during their rebuttal case to answer White's assertions.

Among the key issues is how White calculated that a large residue of propofol in Jackson's body could have come from the small dose that Murray says he administered. Shafer assumed Murray had lied, and he estimated Jackson actually was given 1,000 milligrams of the drug by Murray, who he said left the bottle running into an IV tube under the pull of gravity. White disputed that, saying an extra 25 milligrams self-administered by Jackson would be enough to reach the levels found in his blood and urine.

White also said a minuscule residue of the sedative lorazepam in Jackson's stomach convinced him the singer took some pills from a prescription bottle found in his room. He suggested the combination of lorazepam, another sedative, midazolam, plus the propofol could have killed Jackson.

"It potentially could have lethal consequences," said White. "... I think the combination effect would be very, very profound."

White's testimony was expected to end Murray's defense case after 16 witnesses. It likely will be vigorously challenged by prosecutors, who spent four weeks laying out their case that Murray is a greedy, inept and reckless doctor who was giving Jackson propofol as a sleep aid in the singer's bedroom. Experts including Shafer have said propofol is not intended to treat insomnia and should not be given in a home.

White's theory was based on urine and blood levels in Jackson's autopsy, evidence found in Jackson's bedroom and Murray's long interview with police detectives two days after Jackson died while in his care.

While accepting Murray's account of drugs he gave Jackson, the expert's calculations hinged on the invisible quotient: Jackson's possible movements while his doctor was out of the room. With no witnesses and contradictory physical evidence, that has become the key question hanging over the case.

Those who knew the entertainer in his final days offered a portrait of a man gripped by fear that he would not live up to big plans for his comeback concert and worried about his ability to perform if he didn't get sleep. He was plagued by insomnia, and other medical professionals told of his quest for the one drug he believed could help him. He called it his "milk," and it was propofol.

Jurors have now seen it up close as both Shafer and White demonstrated its potential use as an IV infusion.

With White's testimony, the defense sought to answer strong scientific evidence by the prosecution. But they did not address other questions such as allegations that Murray was negligent and acting below the standard of care for a physician.

Flanagan, the defense attorney, produced a certificate from Sunrise Hospital in Las Vegas showing Murray was certified to administer moderate anesthesia, referred to as "conscious sedation." However, the document showed several requirements including that the physician "monitor the patient carefully" and "provide adequate oxygenation and ventilation for a patient that stops breathing."

Medical witnesses noted that Murray left his patient alone under anesthesia and did not have adequate equipment to revive him when he found him not breathing.

The coroner attributed Jackson's June 25, 2009, death to "acute propofol intoxication" complicated by other sedatives.

Just look how ridiculous it is?

First of all White did not create the simulations.

Secondly, he said the effect on the nervous system took 10 to 15 minutes, so if the other dose that he self-administered took this long, how could have Murray been gone for 2 minutes? And he also managed to take other pills during those 2 minutes? Also notice Flanagan's question. "So you think it was self-injected propofol between 11:30 and 12?" Is Flanagan really that stupid or what? There are many holes in their theory.

"When Michael Jackson is just singing and dancing, you just think this is an astonishing talent. And he has had this astounding talent all his life, but we want him to be floored as well. We really don´t like the idea that he could have it all."
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Reply #334 posted 10/29/11 7:00pm

babybugz

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I died at the judge saying the trial is taking too long eek lmao wow.

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Reply #335 posted 10/29/11 7:07pm

prodigalfan

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lazycrockett said:

Well I know little bout botox, but I want to know why MJ was getting shots in his armpits and his groin area?

<okay, here goes nothing> boxed

It is common to get injections in the armpits, groin, and in between the toes to prevent needle scar marks. Particularly seen in people who get SERIALS of injections and do not want these marks to be visible.

For instance, Chaka Khan I have heard had a drug problem back in the day and has extensive needle scarring on her forearms... hence the reason she always wears either long sleeves or gloves above the elbows.

"Remember, one man's filler is another man's killer" -- Haystack
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Reply #336 posted 10/29/11 7:16pm

mjscarousal

purplethunder3121 said:

I'm still of the opinion, as I was at the beginning, that this trial should have been closed to the public with a gag order on all involved. Unfortunately, I think that it was expected that this would be a sensational media circus like the OJ trial was. It all just leaves a bad taste in my mouth...

Which is why I have been shunning it out... its nothing but a circus for the public...

They need to just end this crap and throw the man in jail... they proved long time ago what needed to be proved and what we all know..

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Reply #337 posted 10/29/11 7:31pm

prodigalfan

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dag said:

An article from yahoo: http://news.yahoo.com/def...59729.html

LOS ANGELES (AP) — With dramatic courtroom testimony, attorneys for Michael Jackson's doctor have dropped the bombshell they've been hinting at for months — an expert opinion accusing the singer of causing his own death.

Dr. Paul White said Jackson injected himself with a dose of propofol after an initial dose by Dr. Conrad Murray wore off. He also calculated that Jackson gave himself another sedative, lorazepam, by taking pills after an infusion of that drug and others by Murray failed to put him to sleep.

That combination of drugs could have had "lethal consequences," the defense team's star scientific witness said Friday.

Murray has pleaded not guilty to involuntary manslaughter.

White showed jurors a series of charts and simulations he created in the past two days to support the defense theory. He also did a courtroom demonstration of how the milky white anesthetic propofol could have entered Jackson's veins in the small dose that Murray claimed he gave the insomniac star.

White said he accepted Murray's statement to police that he administered only 25 milligrams of propofol after a night-long struggle to get Jackson to sleep with infusions of other sedatives.

"How long would that (propofol) have had an effect on Mr. Jackson?" asked defense attorney J. Michael Flanagan.

"If you're talking effect on the central nervous system, 10 to 15 minutes max," White said.

He then said Jackson could have injected himself with another 25 milligrams during the time Murray has said he left the singer's room.

"So you think it was self-injected propofol between 11:30 and 12?" asked Flanagan.

"In my opinion, yes," White said.

The witness, one of the early researchers of the anesthetic, contradicted testimony by Dr. Steven Shafer, his longtime colleague and collaborator. Shafer earlier testified Jackson would have been groggy from all the medications he was administered during the night and could not have given himself the drug in the two minutes Murray said he was gone.

"He can't give himself an injection if he's asleep," Shafer told jurors last week. He called the defense theory of self-administration "crazy."

White's testimony belied no animosity between the two experts, who have worked together for 30 years. Although White was called out by the judge one day for making derogatory comments to a TV reporter about the prosecution case, White was respectful and soft spoken on the witness stand.

When Flanagan made a mistake and called him "Dr. Shafer" a few times, White said, "I'm honored."

The prosecution asked for more time to study the computer program White used before cross-examining him. Superior Court Judge Michael Pastor granted the request, saying he too was baffled by the complicated simulations of Jackson's fatal dose. He recessed court early and gave prosecutors the weekend to catch up before questioning White on Monday.

The surprise disclosure of White's new theory caused a disruption of the court schedule, and the judge had worried aloud that jurors, who expected the trial to be over this week, were being inconvenienced. But the seven men and five women appeared engaged in the testimony and offered no complaints when the judge apologized for the delay.

Prosecutors could call Shafer back during their rebuttal case to answer White's assertions.

Among the key issues is how White calculated that a large residue of propofol in Jackson's body could have come from the small dose that Murray says he administered. Shafer assumed Murray had lied, and he estimated Jackson actually was given 1,000 milligrams of the drug by Murray, who he said left the bottle running into an IV tube under the pull of gravity. White disputed that, saying an extra 25 milligrams self-administered by Jackson would be enough to reach the levels found in his blood and urine.

White also said a minuscule residue of the sedative lorazepam in Jackson's stomach convinced him the singer took some pills from a prescription bottle found in his room. He suggested the combination of lorazepam, another sedative, midazolam, plus the propofol could have killed Jackson.

"It potentially could have lethal consequences," said White. "... I think the combination effect would be very, very profound."

White's testimony was expected to end Murray's defense case after 16 witnesses. It likely will be vigorously challenged by prosecutors, who spent four weeks laying out their case that Murray is a greedy, inept and reckless doctor who was giving Jackson propofol as a sleep aid in the singer's bedroom. Experts including Shafer have said propofol is not intended to treat insomnia and should not be given in a home.

White's theory was based on urine and blood levels in Jackson's autopsy, evidence found in Jackson's bedroom and Murray's long interview with police detectives two days after Jackson died while in his care.

While accepting Murray's account of drugs he gave Jackson, the expert's calculations hinged on the invisible quotient: Jackson's possible movements while his doctor was out of the room. With no witnesses and contradictory physical evidence, that has become the key question hanging over the case.

Those who knew the entertainer in his final days offered a portrait of a man gripped by fear that he would not live up to big plans for his comeback concert and worried about his ability to perform if he didn't get sleep. He was plagued by insomnia, and other medical professionals told of his quest for the one drug he believed could help him. He called it his "milk," and it was propofol.

Jurors have now seen it up close as both Shafer and White demonstrated its potential use as an IV infusion.

With White's testimony, the defense sought to answer strong scientific evidence by the prosecution. But they did not address other questions such as allegations that Murray was negligent and acting below the standard of care for a physician.

Flanagan, the defense attorney, produced a certificate from Sunrise Hospital in Las Vegas showing Murray was certified to administer moderate anesthesia, referred to as "conscious sedation." However, the document showed several requirements including that the physician "monitor the patient carefully" and "provide adequate oxygenation and ventilation for a patient that stops breathing."

Medical witnesses noted that Murray left his patient alone under anesthesia and did not have adequate equipment to revive him when he found him not breathing.

The coroner attributed Jackson's June 25, 2009, death to "acute propofol intoxication" complicated by other sedatives.

Just look how ridiculous it is?

First of all White did not create the simulations.

Secondly, he said the effect on the nervous system took 10 to 15 minutes, so if the other dose that he self-administered took this long, how could have Murray been gone for 2 minutes? And he also managed to take other pills during those 2 minutes? Also notice Flanagan's question. "So you think it was self-injected propofol between 11:30 and 12?" Is Flanagan really that stupid or what? There are many holes in their theory.

I am a critical care trained nurse. *I* can give concious sedation. That is IV Morphine, Ativan, Versed, Dilaudid, Fentanyl.

For cardiac cath, the gold standard is Fentanyl and Versed (aka Midazolam).

It does not mean PROPOFOL!!!! That is an ANESTETIC. To be given by an ANESTHESIOLOGIST unless the patient is in ICU on VENTILATOR.... see? Therefore, the respiratory depression that is a COMMON SIDE EFFECT is mitigated.... already on mechanical ventilation.

Murray was NOT an ANESTHESIOLOGIST. He was NOT certified to give ANESTHESIA. And he did, and his patient died from that DIRECTLY.

GUILTY!!!!!

END OF -FUCKING- STORY!!!

"Remember, one man's filler is another man's killer" -- Haystack
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Reply #338 posted 10/29/11 7:33pm

Timmy84

I love how people are supposedly foaming at the mouth at that testimony. lol

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Reply #339 posted 10/29/11 7:36pm

lazycrockett

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prodigalfan said:

lazycrockett said:

Well I know little bout botox, but I want to know why MJ was getting shots in his armpits and his groin area?

<okay, here goes nothing> boxed

It is common to get injections in the armpits, groin, and in between the toes to prevent needle scar marks. Particularly seen in people who get SERIALS of injections and do not want these marks to be visible.

For instance, Chaka Khan I have heard had a drug problem back in the day and has extensive needle scarring on her forearms... hence the reason she always wears either long sleeves or gloves above the elbows.

I did a lil researching late last night and it seems that botox injections in the armpits and groin can control "excessive sweating" for 3 to 4 months. The more I read bout how it works the more exteme it seemed, atleast to me, so I went to bed.

The Most Important Thing In Life Is Sincerity....Once You Can Fake That, You Can Fake Anything.
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Reply #340 posted 10/29/11 7:45pm

PatrickS77

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Edit: nevermind.

[Edited 10/29/11 12:46pm]

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Reply #341 posted 10/29/11 10:53pm

prodigalfan

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lazycrockett said:

prodigalfan said:

<okay, here goes nothing> boxed

It is common to get injections in the armpits, groin, and in between the toes to prevent needle scar marks. Particularly seen in people who get SERIALS of injections and do not want these marks to be visible.

For instance, Chaka Khan I have heard had a drug problem back in the day and has extensive needle scarring on her forearms... hence the reason she always wears either long sleeves or gloves above the elbows.

I did a lil researching late last night and it seems that botox injections in the armpits and groin can control "excessive sweating" for 3 to 4 months. The more I read bout how it works the more exteme it seemed, atleast to me, so I went to bed.

Oh, I didn't know that. Well maybe MJ really want to make sure that he didn't get sweaty and funky while practicing and performing.

Sweaty armpits are unsightly. shrug

"Remember, one man's filler is another man's killer" -- Haystack
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Reply #342 posted 10/31/11 12:48am

kibbles

prodigalfan said:

lazycrockett said:

I did a lil researching late last night and it seems that botox injections in the armpits and groin can control "excessive sweating" for 3 to 4 months. The more I read bout how it works the more exteme it seemed, atleast to me, so I went to bed.

Oh, I didn't know that. Well maybe MJ really want to make sure that he didn't get sweaty and funky while practicing and performing.

Sweaty armpits are unsightly. shrug

oh, brother ... are either of you really watching this trial or listening to the testimony? you don't know the answers but you're gonna throw shade at mj, anyway. so fucking typical.

mj sweated profusely under the lights and going through his routines, to the point where he would lose 3-4 lbs. per night on tour. per the doc that treated him, his collapse in 1995 in nyc was directly related to severe dehydration. nurse lee testified that mj said he sweated so profusely that they had to mop up the stage behind him. one of the reasons murray was hired was to "rehydrate" him at night ... among other things as we know.

as i've posted before, i know klein is a p.o.s., but he was investigated and no charges have been brought against him. he clearly knows his job, regardless of his moral failings, as i see them, as mj's friend. if mj was sweating that profusely to the point where it could be life threatening, then mj and klein were doing what they could to try to stem the sweating. i've never sweated *that* heavily, but then i've never had to dance under 1000 watt lights, and i'm guessing that neither of you have either .

jesus, give the man a break. (and i'm sure i'd want to have as much demoral as i could take if a needle was being stuck in my armpits or near my fucking groin!)

[Edited 10/30/11 17:49pm]

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Reply #343 posted 10/31/11 5:04am

prodigalfan

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kibbles said:

prodigalfan said:

Oh, I didn't know that. Well maybe MJ really want to make sure that he didn't get sweaty and funky while practicing and performing.

Sweaty armpits are unsightly. shrug

oh, brother ... are either of you really watching this trial or listening to the testimony? you don't know the answers but you're gonna throw shade at mj, anyway. so fucking typical.

mj sweated profusely under the lights and going through his routines, to the point where he would lose 3-4 lbs. per night on tour. per the doc that treated him, his collapse in 1995 in nyc was directly related to severe dehydration. nurse lee testified that mj said he sweated so profusely that they had to mop up the stage behind him. one of the reasons murray was hired was to "rehydrate" him at night ... among other things as we know.

as i've posted before, i know klein is a p.o.s., but he was investigated and no charges have been brought against him. he clearly knows his job, regardless of his moral failings, as i see them, as mj's friend. if mj was sweating that profusely to the point where it could be life threatening, then mj and klein were doing what they could to try to stem the sweating. i've never sweated *that* heavily, but then i've never had to dance under 1000 watt lights, and i'm guessing that neither of you have either .

jesus, give the man a break. (and i'm sure i'd want to have as much demoral as i could take if a needle was being stuck in my armpits or near my fucking groin!)

[Edited 10/30/11 17:49pm]

why the protest? Did you even read my response? Or is your indignation on automatic?

"Remember, one man's filler is another man's killer" -- Haystack
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Reply #344 posted 10/31/11 5:27am

lazycrockett

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Well its seems after Dr. Whites testimony ended Friday the Prosecution gets to cross examine on Monday. I figure final arguments will take place on Tuesday and the jury will deliberate starting on Wednesday. If they are quick I think its guilty if they take their time its going not guilty.

Monday will be the day, if Dr. White continues his stance that MJ injected the fatal dosage himself and reasonable doubt is established the defense will succeed. If the prosecution can make Dr. White question the written police interview of Dr. Murray and find liability then the jury will favor them.

Im sure the anchors/host, I refuse to call them jounalist, of HNL will be foaming at the mouth either way.

Anyway it should be over by friday. smile

The Most Important Thing In Life Is Sincerity....Once You Can Fake That, You Can Fake Anything.
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Reply #345 posted 10/31/11 11:47am

midnightmover

lazycrockett said:

Well its seems after Dr. Whites testimony ended Friday the Prosecution gets to cross examine on Monday. I figure final arguments will take place on Tuesday and the jury will deliberate starting on Wednesday. If they are quick I think its guilty if they take their time its going not guilty.

Monday will be the day, if Dr. White continues his stance that MJ injected the fatal dosage himself and reasonable doubt is established the defense will succeed. If the prosecution can make Dr. White question the written police interview of Dr. Murray and find liability then the jury will favor them.

Im sure the anchors/host, I refuse to call them jounalist, of HNL will be foaming at the mouth either way.

Anyway it should be over by friday. smile

No they won't, since nothing changes the fact that Murray shouldn't have been giving him propofol in a home environment, and he certainly shouldn't have left the room so could chat with his girlfriend. Nothing changes that central fact. The defence is trying to divert the jurors from that, but it won't work. Murray's going down.

Of course, when this trial is over there's a discussion to be had about just how extensive MJ's dealings have been with corrupt doctors for decades. In Murray's case, all the evidence suggests that he wasn't corrupt, but he had a weakness for prostitutes and gold-diggers which left him in such a financial hole that he was easily susceptible to Michael's bribes. MJ paid him to abandon his ethics. He needed the money, so he took it. That discussion will be interesting, but for now, Murray needs to pay the price. It would set a terrible example to others if he walked free.

“The man who never looks into a newspaper is better informed than he who reads them, inasmuch as he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors.”
- Thomas Jefferson
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Reply #346 posted 10/31/11 2:38pm

NaughtyKitty

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lazycrockett said:

Well its seems after Dr. Whites testimony ended Friday the Prosecution gets to cross examine on Monday. I figure final arguments will take place on Tuesday and the jury will deliberate starting on Wednesday. If they are quick I think its guilty if they take their time its going not guilty.

Monday will be the day, if Dr. White continues his stance that MJ injected the fatal dosage himself and reasonable doubt is established the defense will succeed. If the prosecution can make Dr. White question the written police interview of Dr. Murray and find liability then the jury will favor them.

Im sure the anchors/host, I refuse to call them jounalist, of HNL will be foaming at the mouth either way.

Anyway it should be over by friday. smile

On Good Morn. America this morning they said that cross examination of Dr. White will begin today, and then rebuttle witnesses will be called. Then the judge is supposed to dismiss the jury for a day or two…(dont know why). Basically closing arguments are supposed to start next week!

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Reply #347 posted 10/31/11 5:04pm

dag

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Anyone watching the cross exam of dr. White? Walgren is grilling him. He's not answering the questions. Walgren has to reask him several times to get the asnwers from him. He's not holding up well at all. BTW, he's being paid by the defence 3500 USD a day after recieving 11000 USD to start with. Well, he said he doesn't know if he has recieved the money, cause his wife is handling his accounts and he claimed that he was promised this amoung.

"When Michael Jackson is just singing and dancing, you just think this is an astonishing talent. And he has had this astounding talent all his life, but we want him to be floored as well. We really don´t like the idea that he could have it all."
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Reply #348 posted 10/31/11 5:06pm

prodigalfan

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midnightmover said:

lazycrockett said:

Well its seems after Dr. Whites testimony ended Friday the Prosecution gets to cross examine on Monday. I figure final arguments will take place on Tuesday and the jury will deliberate starting on Wednesday. If they are quick I think its guilty if they take their time its going not guilty.

Monday will be the day, if Dr. White continues his stance that MJ injected the fatal dosage himself and reasonable doubt is established the defense will succeed. If the prosecution can make Dr. White question the written police interview of Dr. Murray and find liability then the jury will favor them.

Im sure the anchors/host, I refuse to call them jounalist, of HNL will be foaming at the mouth either way.

Anyway it should be over by friday. smile

No they won't, since nothing changes the fact that Murray shouldn't have been giving him propofol in a home environment, and he certainly shouldn't have left the room so could chat with his girlfriend. Nothing changes that central fact. The defence is trying to divert the jurors from that, but it won't work. Murray's going down.

Of course, when this trial is over there's a discussion to be had about just how extensive MJ's dealings have been with corrupt doctors for decades. In Murray's case, all the evidence suggests that he wasn't corrupt, but he had a weakness for prostitutes and gold-diggers which left him in such a financial hole that he was easily susceptible to Michael's bribes. MJ paid him to abandon his ethics. He needed the money, so he took it. That discussion will be interesting, but for now, Murray needs to pay the price. It would set a terrible example to others if he walked free.

I agree to this post 100%.
"Remember, one man's filler is another man's killer" -- Haystack
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Reply #349 posted 10/31/11 5:13pm

L4OATheOrigina
l

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dag said:

Anyone watching the cross exam of dr. White? Walgren is grilling him. He's not answering the questions. Walgren has to reask him several times to get the asnwers from him. He's not holding up well at all. BTW, he's being paid by the defence 3500 USD a day after recieving 11000 USD to start with. Well, he said he doesn't know if he has recieved the money, cause his wife is handling his accounts and he claimed that he was promised this amoung.

dag it's not unusal for a expert witness to be compensated 4 their time in court 2 testify. I served on a jury and was also shocked 2 learn that this happens

man, he has such an amazing body of music that it's sad to see him constrict it down to the basics. he's too talented for the lineup he's doing. estelle 81
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Reply #350 posted 10/31/11 5:14pm

dag

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L4OATheOriginal said:

dag said:

Anyone watching the cross exam of dr. White? Walgren is grilling him. He's not answering the questions. Walgren has to reask him several times to get the asnwers from him. He's not holding up well at all. BTW, he's being paid by the defence 3500 USD a day after recieving 11000 USD to start with. Well, he said he doesn't know if he has recieved the money, cause his wife is handling his accounts and he claimed that he was promised this amoung.

dag it's not unusal for a expert witness to be compensated 4 their time in court 2 testify. I served on a jury and was also shocked 2 learn that this happens

OK, but this much money?

"When Michael Jackson is just singing and dancing, you just think this is an astonishing talent. And he has had this astounding talent all his life, but we want him to be floored as well. We really don´t like the idea that he could have it all."
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Reply #351 posted 10/31/11 6:21pm

L4OATheOrigina
l

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dag said:

L4OATheOriginal said:

dag it's not unusal for a expert witness to be compensated 4 their time in court 2 testify. I served on a jury and was also shocked 2 learn that this happens

OK, but this much money?

yes or sometimes even more than that. i can recall the case that i was on, this one doctor was getting 3000 for his appearance and that was just one day of testimony

man, he has such an amazing body of music that it's sad to see him constrict it down to the basics. he's too talented for the lineup he's doing. estelle 81
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Reply #352 posted 10/31/11 6:34pm

dag

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L4OATheOriginal said:

dag said:

OK, but this much money?

yes or sometimes even more than that. i can recall the case that i was on, this one doctor was getting 3000 for his appearance and that was just one day of testimony

Well, this guy is getting the 11000 USD PLUS 3500 USD per day!!!

"When Michael Jackson is just singing and dancing, you just think this is an astonishing talent. And he has had this astounding talent all his life, but we want him to be floored as well. We really don´t like the idea that he could have it all."
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Reply #353 posted 10/31/11 7:05pm

nursev

Dr. White is annoying as hell! Getting a straight yes or no answer from this guy requires devine intervention and has Murray always displayed this bad body language? I mean his head stays down-he just looks guilty.
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Reply #354 posted 10/31/11 7:30pm

Musicslave

Dat boy good! wink (RE: Walgren's cross examination)

I like how he framed certain questions where Dr. White knows that his answer will incriminate Conrad and he tried to avoid answering with a straight yes or no. Cracking me up! lol

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Reply #355 posted 10/31/11 8:30pm

dag

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Musicslave said:

Dat boy good! wink (RE: Walgren's cross examination)

I like how he framed certain questions where Dr. White knows that his answer will incriminate Conrad and he tried to avoid answering with a straight yes or no. Cracking me up! lol

EXACTLY and since Walgren is not asking any other questions, getting straight answer from him is almost impossible.

"When Michael Jackson is just singing and dancing, you just think this is an astonishing talent. And he has had this astounding talent all his life, but we want him to be floored as well. We really don´t like the idea that he could have it all."
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Reply #356 posted 10/31/11 9:24pm

dag

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White's non-answers are driving me crazy. Walgren's patience with him deserves some type of medal.

"When Michael Jackson is just singing and dancing, you just think this is an astonishing talent. And he has had this astounding talent all his life, but we want him to be floored as well. We really don´t like the idea that he could have it all."
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Reply #357 posted 10/31/11 9:48pm

L4OATheOrigina
l

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dag said:

L4OATheOriginal said:

yes or sometimes even more than that. i can recall the case that i was on, this one doctor was getting 3000 for his appearance and that was just one day of testimony

Well, this guy is getting the 11000 USD PLUS 3500 USD per day!!!

we're in the wrong business!!

man, he has such an amazing body of music that it's sad to see him constrict it down to the basics. he's too talented for the lineup he's doing. estelle 81
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Reply #358 posted 10/31/11 9:57pm

dag

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L4OATheOriginal said:

dag said:

Well, this guy is getting the 11000 USD PLUS 3500 USD per day!!!

we're in the wrong business!!

Yeah, I thought so myself.

"When Michael Jackson is just singing and dancing, you just think this is an astonishing talent. And he has had this astounding talent all his life, but we want him to be floored as well. We really don´t like the idea that he could have it all."
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Reply #359 posted 10/31/11 10:39pm

PatrickS77

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L4OATheOriginal said:

dag said:

OK, but this much money?

yes or sometimes even more than that. i can recall the case that i was on, this one doctor was getting 3000 for his appearance and that was just one day of testimony

This is truly disgusting. But that explains, why hes trying to blame Michael. Shafer is doing it for free.

[Edited 10/31/11 15:40pm]

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Forums > Music: Non-Prince > The People Vs. Conrad Murray/MJ Trial. Week 6 Cross Examination and Final Arguments.