musicjunky318 said:

MickyDolenz said:

You're looking at this from a modern standpoint. Many new acts are compared to someone already established. Madonna was a new act, and was a white female singer that recieved R&B airplay and liked by some Black listeners. The so-called "blue eyed soul" acts that were popular were pretty much all males and Teena was the only woman that recieved regular airplay, so Madonna was compared to Teena. It might be hard to concieve to modern listeners, but Madonna was considered "blue-eyed soul" at first. Really her first album sounds like the Stephanie Mills stuff of the time, because they had the same producer, Reggie Lucas. But Madonna could get pop radio (and MTV) airplay unlike Stephanie (or Teena).

[Edited 10/9/11 19:45pm]

LOL I asked my dad about this a year or two ago and he says it's not true. I've seen the interviews of her saying people thought she was black but I don't think she was fooling as many listeners as legend has it.

That was a PR tactic. OBVIOUSLY. Because I wouldn't mistake Ms. Ciccone as a black singer.

musicjunky318 said:

MickyDolenz said:

You're looking at this from a modern standpoint. Many new acts are compared to someone already established. Madonna was a new act, and was a white female singer that recieved R&B airplay and liked by some Black listeners. The so-called "blue eyed soul" acts that were popular were pretty much all males and Teena was the only woman that recieved regular airplay, so Madonna was compared to Teena. It might be hard to concieve to modern listeners, but Madonna was considered "blue-eyed soul" at first. Really her first album sounds like the Stephanie Mills stuff of the time, because they had the same producer, Reggie Lucas. But Madonna could get pop radio (and MTV) airplay unlike Stephanie (or Teena).

[Edited 10/9/11 19:45pm]

LOL I asked my dad about this a year or two ago and he says it's not true. I've seen the interviews of her saying people thought she was black but I don't think she was fooling as many listeners as legend has it.

I don't know about people thinking she was black part, but "blue eyed soul" doesn't necessarily mean that the person sounds "black" (whatever that means), just that they're white acts that make R&B or African American infuenced music. In the same way acts like the 5th Dimension, Sammy Davis Jr, Charlie Pride, and Johnny Mathis are not considered "black music" because their music is not generally "R&B" and they don't have that stereotypical gospel/church or raw voice that black singers are supposed to have.

Timmy84 said:

OK, let's set the record straight: Madonna was never billed a "blue eyed soul artist". She was pop from day fucking one! Sire Records was just being fishy, that's all.

I don't think anyone is actually marketed as "blue eyed soul". I don't think Tom Jones or Hall & Oates woke up one day and said "I wanna be a blue-eyed soul singer". Many of the singers don't even like that term.

Noooo, she wasn't.

musicjunky318 said:

MickyDolenz said:

You're looking at this from a modern standpoint. Many new acts are compared to someone already established. Madonna was a new act, and was a white female singer that recieved R&B airplay and liked by some Black listeners. The so-called "blue eyed soul" acts that were popular were pretty much all males and Teena was the only woman that recieved regular airplay, so Madonna was compared to Teena. It might be hard to concieve to modern listeners, but Madonna was considered "blue-eyed soul" at first. Really her first album sounds like the Stephanie Mills stuff of the time, because they had the same producer, Reggie Lucas. But Madonna could get pop radio (and MTV) airplay unlike Stephanie (or Teena).

[Edited 10/9/11 19:45pm]

LOL I asked my dad about this a year or two ago and he says it's not true. I've seen the interviews of her saying people thought she was black but I don't think she was fooling as many listeners as legend has it.

I don't buy it either. I remember Rick Astley, Debbie Gibson, Taylor Dayne, Lisa Stansfield and a few others getting the "wow" upon release but know one thought they were black either and they are each way way way more soulful sounding than Madge. I call BS on her fans for continually pulling this card out.

TonyVanDam said:

The people that influenced Madonna were Deborah Harry, Donna Summer, & Marilyn Monroe.

Chrissie Hynde was another influence.

sosgemini said:

musicjunky318 said:

LOL I asked my dad about this a year or two ago and he says it's not true. I've seen the interviews of her saying people thought she was black but I don't think she was fooling as many listeners as legend has it.

I don't buy it either. I remember Rick Astley, Debbie Gibson, Taylor Dayne, Lisa Stansfield and a few others getting the "wow" upon release but know one thought they were black either and they are each way way way more soulful sounding than Madge. I call BS on her fans for continually pulling this card out.

Debbie Gibson?

[Edited 10/10/11 10:44am]

MickyDolenz said:

mjscarousal said:

The overall point for some reason is slipping over your head. This isnt about who had more black appeal or black fans. Madonna is a souless singer. She is a pop star. I dont care about many African American fans she has. It is obsurd to compare her to Teena Marie and insinuate she has soul JUST because she played on r&b stations and has African American fans...

Once again appeal and soul are DIFFERENT. Madonna is NOT a soulful singer EVEN if she wasnt compared to Teena she STILL would not be soul and I double dare you to make a ridiculous case that she is. Madonna has guts of steel but doesnt have an ounce of soul in her body..

What exactly is "soul"? According to the church I went to, everyone has a soul. "Soulful" singing doesn't mean anything, just like "new age", "pop", "alternative", "goth", "race", "freestyle", "bluegrass", or "heavy metal" doesn't mean anything. What is "world music"? All music is made in the world. Soul is a label someone made up for marketing purposes. I never said Madonna was a soul or any other kind of singer. I was explaining the article and said she was considered "blue eyed soul" by some people of the time and hence compared to Teena. That's all I have to say about this, since you like arguing for no reason. It's not that big of a deal.

[Edited 10/9/11 21:46pm]

Were talking about MUSIC though not literally and I think you know that lol

Music is music but on earth we catagorize music into certain genres and Soul is one of them more specifically soul/r&b.

No its not arguing. You orgers confuse contrasting thoughts back and forth with arguing because you dont like for your opinion to be challenged.

Okay thats fine, the article might say that BUT the fact of the matter is Madonna is not a soulful singer

Teena has done some pop friendly songs as well and STILL oozzesss soul because she embodies that when she sings. Madonna doesnt do that LOL thats the only point I was making.

Madonna was influenced by almost ANY late-70s new wave female rocker and ANY late-70s/early-80s R&B-Disco diva, so YES

Although she was never marketed as R&B, the first time I ever heard Madonna was on black radio. R&B stations were playing "Holiday" very heavily when it first came out. So, I thought the singer was black until I found out she wasn't.

As far as the Teena Marie influence, if Teena did influence Madonna, I don't think she was ever willing to admit it. I read an interview back in the 90s where someone asked her what she thought of Teena Marie? Madonna responded by saying, "she's nothing but a Rick James reject". During that same interview, she was berating other artists like Mimi, Nippy, Cher and Janet. The other comment I remember her vividly making was a bout Mimi, saying "I'd rather be dead than to be Mariah Carey."

And I don't know what was going on between Madonna and Nippy. The first time I found out how ghetto Nippy is was when I read an interview she gave with Rolling Stone magazine back in the early 90's and they asked her about Madonna and Nippy ended up calling her a bunch of filthy names that I can't even repeat here. I never got the full story behind it but, obviously, the two of them were having a MAJOR beef at that time.

why does everything here have to be subject to a race discussion?

seriously - listen to something pre 1983 by teena then listen to physical attraction, pretender, shoo be doo or Lucky Star - even Into the Groove - i 100% hear it in voice, songwriting, song structure and the funky groove with an erotic/girlish voice

Madonna has SOUL btw

anyone who says she doesn't has never heard the Im breathless, bedtime stories or like a prayer albums

kitbradley said:

Although she was never marketed as R&B, the first time I ever heard Madonna was on black radio. R&B stations were playing "Holiday" very heavily when it first came out. So, I thought the singer was black until I found out she wasn't.

As far as the Teena Marie influence, if Teena did influence Madonna, I don't think she was ever willing to admit it. I read an interview back in the 90s where someone asked her what she thought of Teena Marie? Madonna responded by saying, "she's nothing but a Rick James reject". During that same interview, she was berating other artists like Mimi, Nippy, Cher and Janet. The other comment I remember her vividly making was a bout Mimi, saying "I'd rather be dead than to be Mariah Carey."

Hmm, if the interview took place in the early-mid '90s I think I can see Madonna's point. Mariah did not appear to be having much fun until the late '90s/'00s.

badujunkie said:

why does everything here have to be subject to a race discussion?

seriously - listen to something pre 1983 by teena then listen to physical attraction, pretender, shoo be doo or Lucky Star - even Into the Groove - i 100% hear it in voice, songwriting, song structure and the funky groove with an erotic/girlish voice

Madonna has SOUL btw

anyone who says she doesn't has never heard the Im breathless, bedtime stories or like a prayer albums

I do think Madonna has soul, just a different interpretation of it. I think a reason why things turned racial is because people still get touchy. Madonna's real good with me especially between 1983 and 1994.

rialb said:

kitbradley said:

Although she was never marketed as R&B, the first time I ever heard Madonna was on black radio. R&B stations were playing "Holiday" very heavily when it first came out. So, I thought the singer was black until I found out she wasn't.

As far as the Teena Marie influence, if Teena did influence Madonna, I don't think she was ever willing to admit it. I read an interview back in the 90s where someone asked her what she thought of Teena Marie? Madonna responded by saying, "she's nothing but a Rick James reject". During that same interview, she was berating other artists like Mimi, Nippy, Cher and Janet. The other comment I remember her vividly making was a bout Mimi, saying "I'd rather be dead than to be Mariah Carey."

Hmm, if the interview took place in the early-mid '90s I think I can see Madonna's point. Mariah did not appear to be having much fun until the late '90s/'00s.

Mariah was also way outselling her (in the US) at the time of the interview too...i think the exact quote was "id kill myself" when the interviewer asked how she would if feel if she just did "silly pop songs" a la Mariah

badujunkie said:

rialb said:

Hmm, if the interview took place in the early-mid '90s I think I can see Madonna's point. Mariah did not appear to be having much fun until the late '90s/'00s.

Mariah was also way outselling her (in the US) at the time of the interview too...i think the exact quote was "id kill myself" when the interviewer asked how she would if feel if she just did "silly pop songs" a la Mariah

Yeah, the media just added that part in to create drama. I don't think none of the female artists who were in competition with each other (least Janet, Mariah and Madonna) never had real beef. Whitney was a different story.

Timmy84 said:

badujunkie said:

Mariah was also way outselling her (in the US) at the time of the interview too...i think the exact quote was "id kill myself" when the interviewer asked how she would if feel if she just did "silly pop songs" a la Mariah

Yeah, the media just added that part in to create drama. I don't think none of the female artists who were in competition with each other (least Janet, Mariah and Madonna) never had real beef. Whitney was a different story.

MMM im not sure...i think Madonna hated ALL OF THEM circa 1992-1996...she made it personal in most cases...

But then, Janet also had her little fit too...i would say Mariah wasn't the slickest about all of it either...just a bunch of super insecure 20/30 something hot bodied big headed supastas

Madonna was marketed through R&B radio because of the synth revolution that was going on in music at the time. Her beats were more dance-oriented and rhythmicly closer to what was going on in R&B music. Holiday fit in with songs like Rockit, Ain't Nobody and Electricity.

Madonna was NEVER hardcore R&B like Teena was and as far as I can remember, they were never really compared to each other other than both of them being white and female. The target market for Madonna was always pop. She was just fusing R&B with what was standard pop music back then.

Timmy84 said:

sosgemini said:

I don't buy it either. I remember Rick Astley, Debbie Gibson, Taylor Dayne, Lisa Stansfield and a few others getting the "wow" upon release but know one thought they were black either and they are each way way way more soulful sounding than Madge. I call BS on her fans for continually pulling this card out.

Debbie Gibson?

Yes!! People tried to act all shocked that Debbie was white when Always In My Dreams first came out. It's pure PR bullsh*t!!!

And for the record, no, Debbie doesn't have more soul than Madge. They are probably equal. And I love me Madonna's voice but possessing soul is not something I'd use to describe her voice.

badujunkie said:

why does everything here have to be subject to a race discussion?

seriously - listen to something pre 1983 by teena then listen to physical attraction, pretender, shoo be doo or Lucky Star - even Into the Groove - i 100% hear it in voice, songwriting, song structure and the funky groove with an erotic/girlish voice

Madonna has SOUL btw

anyone who says she doesn't has never heard the Im breathless, bedtime stories or like a prayer albums

Why should this forum be any different than anywhere else?

badujunkie said:

why does everything here have to be subject to a race discussion?

The article itself implied race, by comparing Madonna to other "blue-eyed soul" acts. They didn't compare her to a "soul" singer (meaning black), but a "blue-eyed soul" singer.

BlaqueKnight said:

Madonna was marketed through R&B radio because of the synth revolution that was going on in music at the time. Her beats were more dance-oriented and rhythmicly closer to what was going on in R&B music. Holiday fit in with songs like Rockit, Ain't Nobody and Electricity.

Madonna was NEVER hardcore R&B like Teena was and as far as I can remember, they were never really compared to each other other than both of them being white and female. The target market for Madonna was always pop. She was just fusing R&B with what was standard pop music back then.

I love your posts and you but I disagree wholeheartedly.

madonna and WBR / sire records ruthlessly marketed her to the 'urban' R&B AND gay/disco audiences FIRST AND ONLY

I think if her debut album were that of a black singer people would call it straight up r&B

just my opinion

i agree that the rest of her stuff is POP fused with other genres, but I do think her first record, par burning up, is straight up R&B - not that it is on the same level of SOUL OR FUNK that Teena ever was.

MickyDolenz said:

mjscarousal said:

Madonna is soulLESS.... NO

Madonna used to get a lot of airplay on R&B stations when she first came out just like Art Of Noise and Culture Club did. That's probably why she's compared to Teena in this early article.

Over and over again.

I have been thinking about the brief period when Madonna first came out and several reviews of her first album referred to her inspiring the listener to want to hear Teena Marie rather than Madonna. ??? on that. But, it seemed that Madonna responded with a level of not unreasonable insecurityand talked a little smack about Lady Tee ("she was just sorta Rick James' little thing, she didn't write and produce like me.") This led to Terry and Jimmy Jam taking a cassete of Madonnna's album and throwing it down the hallway of a radio station during an interview because they were not feeling some chick talkin' poorly about Teena. LOL it was funny as hell.

Check this hilarious moment at 2:09 - you will not be disapointed.

http://www.youtube.com/wa...re=related

sosgemini said:

Timmy84 said:

Debbie Gibson?

Yes!! People tried to act all shocked that Debbie was white when Always In My Dreams first came out. It's pure PR bullsh*t!!!

And for the record, no, Debbie doesn't have more soul than Madge. They are probably equal. And I love me Madonna's voice but possessing soul is not something I'd use to describe her voice.

Jesus Christ lmao

Timmy84 said:

sosgemini said:

Yes!! People tried to act all shocked that Debbie was white when Always In My Dreams first came out. It's pure PR bullsh*t!!!

And for the record, no, Debbie doesn't have more soul than Madge. They are probably equal. And I love me Madonna's voice but possessing soul is not something I'd use to describe her voice.

Jesus Christ lmao

i would say that the singer from Steely Dan, Tori Amos, Gloria estefan have soul for the record

not sure how Debbie Gibson got in the mix...

I've never heard or read anybody saying that Debbie Gibson sounded black. I don't remember Debbie getting any R&B airplay either. I remember Debbie vs. Tiffany though.

Hopefully she was influenced by someone more engaging.

Spinlight said:

Hopefully she was influenced by someone more engaging.

Ouch!

Here's a trip down memory lane.

^Skip to 3:35

badujunkie said:

BlaqueKnight said:

Madonna was marketed through R&B radio because of the synth revolution that was going on in music at the time. Her beats were more dance-oriented and rhythmicly closer to what was going on in R&B music. Holiday fit in with songs like Rockit, Ain't Nobody and Electricity.

Madonna was NEVER hardcore R&B like Teena was and as far as I can remember, they were never really compared to each other other than both of them being white and female. The target market for Madonna was always pop. She was just fusing R&B with what was standard pop music back then.

I love your posts and you but I disagree wholeheartedly.

madonna and WBR / sire records ruthlessly marketed her to the 'urban' R&B AND gay/disco audiences FIRST AND ONLY

I think if her debut album were that of a black singer people would call it straight up r&B

just my opinion

i agree that the rest of her stuff is POP fused with other genres, but I do think her first record, par burning up, is straight up R&B - not that it is on the same level of SOUL OR FUNK that Teena ever was.

Did you read my first two sentences?

Sorry, I should have been clearer from the beginning.