Exactly!!! You have put your finger on it, I could not express it better.

I had this vague feeling that something didn't sound/look natural about this way of speaking [cramming all this important info into such a short amount of speech time], but I couldn't formulate it somehow. But the theory of an edit sounds very, very possible to me - like you said, whether as an interview, edited conversation with lots of pertinent questions, etc. not sure what/how exactly but that definitely sounds much more plausible to me than having MJ [drugged on top of that] starts speaking like this.

It's like as if I'm sitting at home, trying to rest or just going about my daily activities, and then suddenly, in the middle of nowhere and unprompted by anyone in the room, I start for the 3-5 minutes or so talking about all my life's plans, worries and priorities. C'mon, who does that?...

The only way to have MJ speak and mention all these important pieces of information continuously, with no interruption within such a short amount of time is through editing of course.

Great investigative job!

prodigalfan said:

Flo6 said:

Very true about some people with certain mental issues being intelligent too [I think the crazed, genial artist falls into that category, and others too.] I just find it very coincidental that MJ happens to be talking about all the things that matter, that the people involved in the case and we/the public would want to hear from him [all the major, relevant topics & issues] in that one very short segment.

True also, that some words sound much clearer than others.

My suggestion that the recording might be fake doesn't imply that it may not be MJ's voice. It may well be him. But I'm also considering the option that he was somehow forced to read this from a script. In any case, I have strong vibes that there might have been some tampering of sorts with this recording.

I just thought of something. It did seem odd the way MJ was like almost giving a speech. No one talks like that without some sort of feedback or verbal exchange with someone else.

Could Murray have "interviewed" MJ and either paused the recording or edit it so we only hear MJ's voice and not Murray's questions that would prompt a response like the one record?

[Edited 10/7/11 2:46am]

Very good point about his ability to somehow function and work long hours on This Is It and other things with little/no sleep - and the non-mention of this in the case so far...

We know Prince can and does:)... and these 2 don't seem to be subject to the same natural laws as the rest of us common mortals , but still, it's interesting that it's being brushed under the carpet.

lazycrockett said:

prodigalfan said:

Not if it is given as a continuous drip. I have given it to patients on ventilators for almost 2 weeks. That is one medication that is used to keep epeople "sleeping" when they are in intensive care on life support. Some people could still be capable of pulling out their breathing tubes, disconnect the EKG leads... etc.

So you know them out. We used to say to combative people withdrawaling from alcohol... (very strong and very violent prone people when going through withdrawals...)

we used to say "sedate... until you intubate". It is done with a drip. I am quite sure that is what MJ had. Otherwise you are correct... what is the point of giving shots that last for 5 - 7 minutes?

N Im a believer in the drip theory, but as of yet that hasn't been brought up by the prosecution and is just speculation right?

This still brings up the notion of how is MJ able to function with an aburd non amount of sleep?

babynoz said:

alphastreet said:

People with mental health issues can be so intelligent too. That barrier doesn't wipe it away. If a spectator heard what he was saying, they could argue he is bipolar and having grand and unrealistic ideas about the hospital, although that is not my personal opinion though it could make for an interesting theory, but we know what his character is like already and that he's made contributions for decades.

Did you notice that there are certain words that sound very clear more than once? Listen again

That most certainly is Mike on that tape...listen to his phrasing and voice inflection. It's heartbreaking, but it's him alright.

Also, people under the influence tend to be less guarded about speaking their thoughts and I agree that a person can have multiple issues and still be intelligent.

Yeah I know it's him and I don't find it strange to talk about a bunch of things in a short time. I just noticed some parts being clear, some being muffled and particular words being more clear than others. I don't believe he is faking his death though.

Wow, wow, wow!!!... Totally unrelated to this case, but the similarities are spine-chilling. Couldn't help posting.

Does anyone around here know about Vince Foster? [I'm not American, and I just learned about him today - someone in P&R mentioned him in a post]. Here is from Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vince_Foster

Vincent Walker Foster, Jr. (January 15, 1945 – July 20, 1993) was a Deputy White House Counsel during the first few months of President Bill Clinton, and also a law partner and friend ofHillary Rodham Clinton. His death was ruled a suicide by multiple official investigations, but remains a subject of interest among conspiracy theorists.

Apparently he was making some people in high places unhappy, for reasons that evade me.

But what I found most disturbing is how it all ended for him - there are so many similarities with MJ's situation, I find [see my bold text from this extract from Wikip]:

Days after the speech, the White House travel office controversy erupted.^[3] Foster was the target of several hostile Wall Street Journaleditorials in June and July 1993,^[10] with titles such as "Who is Vincent Foster?"^[9] He became quite upset over the travel office matter and the possibility of a congressional hearing^[10] at which he may have been called to testify.^[12] Disliking the public spotlight^[9] and suffering fromweight loss and insomnia,^[10] he considered resigning his position but feared a personal humiliation upon returning to Arkansas.^[10]

Death

Wrestling with clinical depression, Foster was prescribed the mild sleeping aid/anti-depressant medication Trazodone over the phone by his doctor, though he only had taken a few before he died. The next day, Foster was found dead in Fort Marcy Park, a federal park in Virginia. He was found with a gun in his hand and gunshot residue on that hand. An autopsy determined that he was shot in the mouth and no other wounds were found on his body. A suicide note of sorts, actually a draft of a resignation letter, was found torn into 27 pieces in his briefcase, a list of complaints specifically including, "The WSJ editors lie without consequence"^[15] and lamenting, "I was not meant for the job or the spotlight of public life in Washington. Here ruining people is considered sport."

His funeral Mass was held at the Cathedral of St. Andrew Catholic Church in Little Rock. Bill Clinton gave an emotional eulogy in which he recalled their boyhood times together and quoted a line from Leon Russell's "A Song for You": "I love you in a place that has no space and time."^[16]Foster was buried in Memory Gardens Cemetery in his hometown of Hope. Foster was 48 years old and was survived by his wife and three children.

Subsequent investigations

There have been three official investigations into Foster's death, all of which concluded that he committed suicide.^[17]

The first was by the United States Park Police in 1993, in whose jurisdiction the original investigation fell. Due to Foster's position in the White House, the Federal Bureau of Investigation assisted in the investigation. Investigations by a coroner and Independent Counsel Robert B. Fiske, in a 58-page report released in 1994, also concluded that Foster had committed suicide.^[12] Conspiracy theories of a cover-up still persisted, some of which were promulgated by the Arkansas Project. After a three-year investigation, Whitewater independent counselKenneth Starr^[18][19] released a report in 1997 also concluding that the death was a suicide.^[12]

In addition, two investigations by the U.S. Congress found that Foster committed suicide.^[12]

The weight loss, anxiety, insomnia, considerations of resigning from his post [as MJ may have pondered how to avoid the TII concerts], the charlatan/so-called 'doctor' prescribing medication 'over the phone', the sudden, seemingly inexplicable death, the claim that it's a suicide [also made by some on the MJ case], the gun found at the scene [we have drugs/medication found in his bedroom], and the written suicide note [we have the voice recording]... and then the swirl of conspiracies and theories about this 'mysterious' death...

Eerily similar if you ask me...

[Edited 10/7/11 8:05am]

Flo6 said:

Exactly!!! You have put your finger on it, I could not express it better.

I had this vague feeling that something didn't sound/look natural about this way of speaking [cramming all this important info into such a short amount of speech time], but I couldn't formulate it somehow. But the theory of an edit sounds very, very possible to me - like you said, whether as an interview, edited conversation with lots of pertinent questions, etc. not sure what/how exactly but that definitely sounds much more plausible to me than having MJ [drugged on top of that] starts speaking like this.

It's like as if I'm sitting at home, trying to rest or just going about my daily activities, and then suddenly, in the middle of nowhere and unprompted by anyone in the room, I start for the 3-5 minutes or so talking about all my life's plans, worries and priorities. C'mon, who does that?...

The only way to have MJ speak and mention all these important pieces of information continuously, with no interruption within such a short amount of time is through editing of course.

<Great investigative job!

prodigalfan said:

I just thought of something. It did seem odd the way MJ was like almost giving a speech. No one talks like that without some sort of feedback or verbal exchange with someone else.

Could Murray have "interviewed" MJ and either paused the recording or edit it so we only hear MJ's voice and not Murray's questions that would prompt a response like the one record?

[Edited 10/7/11 2:46am]

I wish I could be a consultant for the prosecution if they don't have one.

I will email them with things to cover

like today I hear they pounced on the investigator about a glass of juice sitting at the bedside and the fact that she did not test the contents.

They need to have an expert witness describe the route of ingestion for propofol... get an expert even from the drug manufacturer if neccessary to explain the poor absorption of Propofol thru the gut, and then get the toxicologist to explain how much drug would be needed to drink in order for the body to absorb enough of the medication to cause death... and then need to review the contents of the stomach so the jury is reminded that gallons of Propofol was NOT found in stomach post mortem.

Cause you know the defense is going to try to use the glass to bring in reasonable doubt that MJ ingested the propofol himself.

[Edited 10/7/11 8:53am]

There are two people in this pic that wont be testifying in this case but should (well, one of them cant testify unfortunately) as they probably could share important information to this case.

[Edited 10/7/11 12:29pm]

NaughtyKitty said:

There are two people in this pic that wont be testifying in this case but should (well, one of them cant testify unfortunately) as they probably could share important information to this case.

[Edited 10/7/11 12:29pm]

One's (unfortunately) dead and another is in hiding.

Timmy84 said:

NaughtyKitty said:

There are two people in this pic that wont be testifying in this case but should (well, one of them cant testify unfortunately) as they probably could share important information to this case.

[Edited 10/7/11 12:29pm]

One's (unfortunately) dead and another is in hiding.

i know it might take too long, but i'm not that close 2 understanding who everyone is in this collage of people and the relation 2 MJ but i can tell the one with the cigar is frank

You should!

prodigalfan said:

Flo6 said:

Exactly!!! You have put your finger on it, I could not express it better.

I had this vague feeling that something didn't sound/look natural about this way of speaking [cramming all this important info into such a short amount of speech time], but I couldn't formulate it somehow. But the theory of an edit sounds very, very possible to me - like you said, whether as an interview, edited conversation with lots of pertinent questions, etc. not sure what/how exactly but that definitely sounds much more plausible to me than having MJ [drugged on top of that] starts speaking like this.

It's like as if I'm sitting at home, trying to rest or just going about my daily activities, and then suddenly, in the middle of nowhere and unprompted by anyone in the room, I start for the 3-5 minutes or so talking about all my life's plans, worries and priorities. C'mon, who does that?...

The only way to have MJ speak and mention all these important pieces of information continuously, with no interruption within such a short amount of time is through editing of course.

<Great investigative job!

[Edited 10/7/11 2:46am]

I wish I could be a consultant for the prosecution if they don't have one.

I will email them with things to cover

like today I hear they pounced on the investigator about a glass of juice sitting at the bedside and the fact that she did not test the contents.

They need to have an expert witness describe the route of ingestion for propofol... get an expert even from the drug manufacturer if neccessary to explain the poor absorption of Propofol thru the gut, and then get the toxicologist to explain how much drug would be needed to drink in order for the body to absorb enough of the medication to cause death... and then need to review the contents of the stomach so the jury is reminded that gallons of Propofol was NOT found in stomach post mortem.

Cause you know the defense is going to try to use the glass to bring in reasonable doubt that MJ ingested the propofol himself.

[Edited 10/7/11 8:53am]

Flo, I'm not trying to sound like a defensive fan, but I really think you're overthinking it and don't really agree with the example you gave. Things like this happen everyday unfortunately.

^ Alpha's right unfortunately.

off with his head!

I avoided this thread all day until now. I've been listening to music instead of the trial. Does anyone have any actual updates on it since yesterday? I don't wanna scroll through all the comments--I'm to into music tonight.

purplethunder3121 said:

I avoided this thread all day until now. I've been listening to music instead of the trial. Does anyone have any actual updates on it since yesterday? I don't wanna scroll through all the comments--I'm to into music tonight.

no one has been really been commenting on the trial; just other shit, so you haven't missed anything.

they finished up with the toxicologist who confirmed no other drugs in mj's system from any other doc, just from murray. then it was on to continuing to expose murray's lies via his recorded police interview. to wit:

- several witnesses have already been called to the stand to testify as to phone calls w/murray the morning of 6/25. murray never mentions these calls to investigators. murray says he came from the bathroom after leaving mj about two minutes to find him not breathing which contradicts the testimony of sade anding who stated she heard mj (presumably) coughing while on the phone w/murray and then the line went dead.

- on the tape murray claims mj made his security use the gas station restrooms near the house. in fact, security have testified that they used a bathroom in the house.

- murray claims that he didn't call the emts, something about it would have taken too much attention from his trying to help mj. (i don't try to make sense of his b.s., i'm just reporting it!)

- murray said a lot of things about another doctor named adams. my understanding is that adams' atty is on cnn, going ballistic on murray. i presume he is going to testify for the pros and cause further problems for murray. same thing about nurse lee. he said some things about her which i think she's going to want to defend in court.

- all of a sudden, murray seems to have perfect recall of the drugs he gave mj and what times when talking to the investigator, telling them every little detail. this contradicts his statements to the emts and er docs. he had told them that he given one drug to mj, never mentioned propofol, and stated that he couldn't recall time because he did have a watch, had no concept of time.

it was kinda of a truncated day as it is yom kipper so the court closed at 3pm.

[Edited 10/7/11 19:21pm]

[Edited 10/7/11 19:23pm]

kibbles said:

purplethunder3121 said:

I avoided this thread all day until now. I've been listening to music instead of the trial. Does anyone have any actual updates on it since yesterday? I don't wanna scroll through all the comments--I'm to into music tonight.

no one has been really been commenting on the trial; just other shit, so you haven't missed anything.

they finished up with the toxicologist who confirmed no other drugs in mj's system from any other doc, just from murray. then it was on to continuing to expose murray's lies via his recorded police interview. to wit:

- several witnesses have already been called to the stand to testify as to phone calls w/murray the morning of 6/25. murray never mentions these calls to investigators. murray says he came from the bathroom after leaving mj about two minutes to find him not breathing which contradicts the testimony of sade anding who stated she heard mj (presumably) coughing while on the phone w/murray and then the line went dead.

- on the tape murray claims mj made his security use the gas station restrooms near the house. in fact, security have testified that they used a bathroom in the house.

- murray claims that he didn't call the emts, something about it would have taken too much attention from his trying to help mj. (i don't try to make sense of his b.s., i'm just reporting it!)

- murray said a lot of things about another doctor named adams. my understanding is that adams' atty is on cnn, going ballistic on murray. i presume he is going to testify for the pros and cause further problems for murray. same thing about nurse lee. he said some things about her which i think she's going to want to defend in court.

- all of a sudden, murray seems to have perfect recall of the drugs he gave mj and what times when talking to the investigator, telling them every little detail. this contradicts his statements to the emts and er docs. he had told them that he given one drug to mj, never mentioned propofol, and stated that he couldn't recall time because he did have a watch, had no concept of time.

it was kinda of a truncated day as it is yom kipper so the court closed at 3pm.

[Edited 10/7/11 19:21pm]

[Edited 10/7/11 19:23pm]

Yeah, I remember the judge saying he was going to dismiss early because of a request by a jury member for Yom Kippur. Sounds like I didn't miss much. Thanks so much for the synopsis of what went on today. We shall see what happens next week. So far, I think the defense has been very weak in their cross examinations, especially yesterday with the LAPD toxicologist.

I must say I agree [about overthinking & my imagination brain cells going overdrive, esp. about the Vince Foster analogy] Some people see some links and connections about the so-called high-profile murders and unexplained disappearances, which some say are tied to the Illuminati etc.

My ultimate stance on this case though is that ultimately: 1] I personally don't know anything for sure [I'm just advancing theories/possibilities], and 2] that I do smell something fishy/not right or straightforward about MJ's disappearance, although like I said, I don't know what...

alphastreet said:

Flo, I'm not trying to sound like a defensive fan, but I really think you're overthinking it and don't really agree with the example you gave. Things like this happen everyday unfortunately.

[Edited 10/7/11 23:39pm]

Not trying to be rude but your suspicions are ridiculous.

So now that Murray has admitted administrating propofol to MJ knowing he was addicted to it and Murray has been administrating it everyday for months then he should be automatically be found gulity now, regardless on how much it was a mistake or saying how much he loved MJ he still adminstrated the propofol that killed him.

Timmy84 said:

Not trying to be rude but your suspicions are ridiculous.

given that the recording is not from june 25th and not even from being on propofol

and wait a minute, addicted to propofol or the idea of using it to go to sleep?

[Edited 10/8/11 3:16am]

Flo6 said:

I must say I agree [about overthinking & my imagination brain cells going overdrive, esp. about the Vince Foster analogy] Some people see some links and connections about the so-called high-profile murders and unexplained disappearances, which some say are tied to the Illuminati etc.

My ultimate stance on this case though is that ultimately: 1] I personally don't know anything for sure [I'm just advancing theories/possibilities], and 2] that I do smell something fishy/not right or straightforward about MJ's disappearance, although like I said, I don't know what...

His disappearance?? I suggest you go look at Forest Lawn Glendale for him.

I agree....and if it's the right Forest Lawn make sure Elizabeth Taylor is there.

So sad...

purplethunder3121 said:

kibbles said:

no one has been really been commenting on the trial; just other shit, so you haven't missed anything.

they finished up with the toxicologist who confirmed no other drugs in mj's system from any other doc, just from murray. then it was on to continuing to expose murray's lies via his recorded police interview. to wit:

- several witnesses have already been called to the stand to testify as to phone calls w/murray the morning of 6/25. murray never mentions these calls to investigators. murray says he came from the bathroom after leaving mj about two minutes to find him not breathing which contradicts the testimony of sade anding who stated she heard mj (presumably) coughing while on the phone w/murray and then the line went dead.

- on the tape murray claims mj made his security use the gas station restrooms near the house. in fact, security have testified that they used a bathroom in the house.

- murray claims that he didn't call the emts, something about it would have taken too much attention from his trying to help mj. (i don't try to make sense of his b.s., i'm just reporting it!)

- murray said a lot of things about another doctor named adams. my understanding is that adams' atty is on cnn, going ballistic on murray. i presume he is going to testify for the pros and cause further problems for murray. same thing about nurse lee. he said some things about her which i think she's going to want to defend in court.

- all of a sudden, murray seems to have perfect recall of the drugs he gave mj and what times when talking to the investigator, telling them every little detail. this contradicts his statements to the emts and er docs. he had told them that he given one drug to mj, never mentioned propofol, and stated that he couldn't recall time because he did have a watch, had no concept of time.

it was kinda of a truncated day as it is yom kipper so the court closed at 3pm.

[Edited 10/7/11 19:21pm]

[Edited 10/7/11 19:23pm]

Yeah, I remember the judge saying he was going to dismiss early because of a request by a jury member for Yom Kippur. Sounds like I didn't miss much. Thanks so much for the synopsis of what went on today. We shall see what happens next week. So far, I think the defense has been very weak in their cross examinations, especially yesterday with the LAPD toxicologist.

when the defense attorney was cross examining, he kept on asking the toxicologist question after question that he stated time and time again that he couldn't answer! even the judge told him, he's not qualified 2 answer, ask him something else! lol

and i heard it was Rebe that got the judge mad for walking into tthe well of the courtroom during the murry interview

and from the looks of the transcripts, the court stopped with even MORE to be heard from the interview

i thought i also heard that there was degregated marijuana found in mj's house too

what also was shocking me was that murray said that mj claimed that other doctors gave him medication 2 make him sleep 15-18 hours a day?!! WHAT?

L4OATheOriginal said:

purplethunder3121 said:

Yeah, I remember the judge saying he was going to dismiss early because of a request by a jury member for Yom Kippur. Sounds like I didn't miss much. Thanks so much for the synopsis of what went on today. We shall see what happens next week. So far, I think the defense has been very weak in their cross examinations, especially yesterday with the LAPD toxicologist.

when the defense attorney was cross examining, he kept on asking the toxicologist question after question that he stated time and time again that he couldn't answer! even the judge told him, he's not qualified 2 answer, ask him something else! lol

and i heard it was Rebe that got the judge mad for walking into tthe well of the courtroom during the murry interview

and from the looks of the transcripts, the court stopped with even MORE to be heard from the interview

Wait a minute, are you saying SISTER Rebbie was walking into the well of the courtroom?! I mean I understand hearing your heavily medicated brother being interviewed by Conrat (I purposedly spelled that btw) is madness and I feel her pain but wow.

Enlighten me please. What is a "well of the courtroom"?

Thanks

It would be the space between the judge n the prosecution and defense are located.

Judge

well

Defense Prosecution

Timmy84 said:

L4OATheOriginal said:

when the defense attorney was cross examining, he kept on asking the toxicologist question after question that he stated time and time again that he couldn't answer! even the judge told him, he's not qualified 2 answer, ask him something else! lol

and i heard it was Rebe that got the judge mad for walking into tthe well of the courtroom during the murry interview

and from the looks of the transcripts, the court stopped with even MORE to be heard from the interview

Wait a minute, are you saying SISTER Rebbie was walking into the well of the courtroom?! I mean I understand hearing your heavily medicated brother being interviewed by Conrat (I purposedly spelled that btw) is madness and I feel her pain but wow.

yeah it seems that Rebbie was upset about what she was hearing and raised her hand 2 one of the court officers 2 be removed and the officer help escort her out but by going through the well, that's when the judge ordered the recording 2 be stopped and said "i cannot have people moving in the court .."

i got this info from watching HLN after the court had adjourned for the day

and it also seems that dr adams is mighty pissed about the implications and one his lawyers claimed they will be a civil suit against dr. murray later

L4OATheOriginal said:

Timmy84 said:

Wait a minute, are you saying SISTER Rebbie was walking into the well of the courtroom?! I mean I understand hearing your heavily medicated brother being interviewed by Conrat (I purposedly spelled that btw) is madness and I feel her pain but wow.

yeah it seems that Rebbie was upset about what she was hearing and raised her hand 2 one of the court officers 2 be removed and the officer help escort her out but by going through the well, that's when the judge ordered the recording 2 be stopped and said "i cannot have people moving in the court .."

i got this info from watching HLN after the court had adjourned for the day

and it also seems that dr adams is mighty pissed about the implications and one his lawyers claimed they will be a civil suit against dr. murray later

Wow. You gotta feel for someone who used to put diapers on her baby brother.

I did actually: I flew from Boston to LA on June 23rd this year to join the fans on the 25th at Forest Lawn - which btw doesn't change my strong suspicions that something is amiss/that he might have faked it. If that's the case, it wouldn't be the first event that's been manufactured since his 'death'...

And good point alphastreet is making: there are 2 cemeteries in the area with the same long name that has Forest Lawn in it - at about 10-20? km from each other, very confusing! But once I found the fans' gathering and recognized the mausoleum's building from photos, I knew I was at the right one:).

As for my 'ridiculous' suspicions of foul play [replying here as I'm at it]: I wouldn't exactly call this case (and anything MJ-related for that matter) 'crystal clear'... And I understand there are quite a few people out there who believe in the faked death [or other occurrences like murder, etc] theory. So I don't think I'm one oddball in a million.

But as long as I keep my freedom of thought&expression rights, I don't mind what others think, incl their ridicule. Free speech rules!

PatrickS77 said:

Flo6 said:

I must say I agree [about overthinking & my imagination brain cells going overdrive, esp. about the Vince Foster analogy] Some people see some links and connections about the so-called high-profile murders and unexplained disappearances, which some say are tied to the Illuminati etc.

My ultimate stance on this case though is that ultimately: 1] I personally don't know anything for sure [I'm just advancing theories/possibilities], and 2] that I do smell something fishy/not right or straightforward about MJ's disappearance, although like I said, I don't know what...

His disappearance?? I suggest you go look at Forest Lawn Glendale for him.

Flo6 said:

I must say I agree [about overthinking & my imagination brain cells going overdrive, esp. about the Vince Foster analogy] Some people see some links and connections about the so-called high-profile murders and unexplained disappearances, which some say are tied to the Illuminati etc.

My ultimate stance on this case though is that ultimately: 1] I personally don't know anything for sure [I'm just advancing theories/possibilities], and 2] that I do smell something fishy/not right or straightforward about MJ's disappearance, although like I said, I don't know what...

alphastreet said:

Flo, I'm not trying to sound like a defensive fan, but I really think you're overthinking it and don't really agree with the example you gave. Things like this happen everyday unfortunately.

[Edited 10/7/11 23:39pm]

So, with the same analogy, would you say that Vince Foster faked his death? I've been hearing about the so-called death hoax of MJ for the past two years. Was there something strange about the atmosphere when you visit Forest Lawn, aside from the fact that it's a cemetary? I am trying to figure out what is causing you to think or suspect anything foul.