kibbles said:

purplewisdom said:

Ameen to that.

but the sad thing is one, he will never admit he was wrong, assuming that he is asked to go back on these shows, and two, if he ever does go back on these shows, they will NEVER even ask him about his previous statements. i find it interesting that both he and deepak chopra present themselves as so 'holy' and 'spiritual' and 'righteous' and mj's body was barely cold before they were out there running their mouths about him.

Shows you what they REALLY are...

My car hard drive ramdomly hit to "Morphine" this morning.

Can't hear it in the same light anymore.

SoulAlive said:

SHOCKADELICA1 said:

Gatdayum did y'all see ALL those bottles the prosecution pulled out?? That was insane!!

GOT PILLS!?! APPARENTLY, THESE ARE THE PILLS MICHAEL JACKSON HAD AT HIS BEDSIDE THE DAY HE DIED. NOT INCLUDING A BAG OF PROFOPOL THAT DR. CONRAD MURRAY HAD MJ'S SECURITY GUARD PUT AWAY ON DR. MURRAY'S ORDERS! THIS TRIAL IS GETTING INERESTING!

soul, most of these drugs are the vials of propofol that the were found in the closet where murray hid them. the pharmacist testified yesterday that murray had ordered over two hundred vials, and these are the remaining vials that he had.

there are few actual prescription bottles; some of those drugs were prescribed by murray and worked in conjunction w/ the propofol. regardless of the bottles on the desk, it was established today that the only drugs in mj's system were the ones that murray gave him, not anything any other doctor prescribed. whether mj was addicted to any of the drugs on the desk hasn't been confirmed or denied by anyone, yet.

if you were to go to my house right now, there are at least six or seven bottles of pills and other drugs there (admittedly they're OTC). i don't think i'm a drug addict, though.

kibbles said:

SoulAlive said:

GOT PILLS!?! APPARENTLY, THESE ARE THE PILLS MICHAEL JACKSON HAD AT HIS BEDSIDE THE DAY HE DIED. NOT INCLUDING A BAG OF PROFOPOL THAT DR. CONRAD MURRAY HAD MJ'S SECURITY GUARD PUT AWAY ON DR. MURRAY'S ORDERS! THIS TRIAL IS GETTING INERESTING!

soul, most of these drugs are the vials of propofol that the were found in the closet where murray hid them. the pharmacist testified yesterday that murray had ordered over two hundred vials, and these are the remaining vials that he had.

there are few actual prescription bottles; some of those drugs were prescribed by murray and worked in conjunction w/ the propofol. regardless of the bottles on the desk, it was established today that the only drugs in mj's system were the ones that murray gave him, not anything any other doctor prescribed. whether mj was addicted to any of the drugs on the desk hasn't been confirmed or denied by anyone, yet.

if you were to go to my house right now, there are at least six or seven bottles of pills and other drugs there (admittedly they're OTC). i don't think i'm a drug addict, though.

kibbles said:

Musicslave said:

I hear you lazycrockett. I think last week was about "shock and awe". They came out strong establishing him as guilty as charged in the minds of the jury. This week seems to be less sensational and more intricate in the details highlighting his liability and calculated incompetence as a doctor and his distraction wit dem hoes on the phone.

I'm sure there's a method to their madness. I've already concluded that he's guilty (like most people in the world), my concern is his punishment more than likely won't fit the crime. Besides, even if he did get sentenced to 4 years, odds are he'd be released early anyway. Either way none of this will bring Mike back of course but damn... You still want to see justice to the fullest extent of the law.

i don't think 'sensationalism' or 'character assasination' were the purposes of the testimony at all.

sade anding was put on to demonstrate that murray was on the phone w/ her, and heard a commotion, someone coughing, ostensibly mj. also, there were other people who were brought to the stand, not girlfriends, who were there to establish the same thing - they were on the phone w/him. the pros are trying to show a timeline of events, which is at odds w/what murray told them.

nicole alvarez was put on to show that murray ordered the propofol and other drugs that were delivered to her apartment, and that were ultimately found at mj's residence. the pharmacist was put on to establish that he was (allegedly) misled as to believe the address to which he sent the drugs was a clinic, as that is what murray told him. the pros are showing these events are linked together. it's important to show murray alone was responsible for the purchase of these drugs, and that he is a liar to boot.

the recording of mj also serves a purpose to show the effects that these drugs were having on him.

today, they are playing murray's interview w/the detective which will show murray's chain of lies. supposedly, he never talked about the phone calls he was making in the hour or so leading up to mj's death, time when he was supposed to be monitoring mj (something the docs also alluded to.)

in addition, the defense wants people to believe that mj was so impervious to drugs b/c of his alleged addictions. however, as the tape demonstrates, the drugs that murray gave mj had a debilitating effect on him. it begs a couple of questions: if murray was trying to ween mj from drugs as he stated, why did he order more drugs after he made this recording, and is it possible that mj would have been coherent enough to ask to be injected w/propofol on 6/25/09 the way murray claimed in his interview?

it's not the prosecutors' fault that murray was a 'man ho'. it is completely irrelevant what these women's personal relationships with murray was. but they are there to establish a timeline of events, and to show the discrepancies in murray's statement to the investigators.

even if you take out the women, and even the people who worked for mj who might have a bias toward him, you still have the emts, the er docs, the pharmacist who all provided very convincing testimony.

Exactly.

alphastreet said:

People with mental health issues can be so intelligent too. That barrier doesn't wipe it away. If a spectator heard what he was saying, they could argue he is bipolar and having grand and unrealistic ideas about the hospital, although that is not my personal opinion though it could make for an interesting theory, but we know what his character is like already and that he's made contributions for decades.

Did you notice that there are certain words that sound very clear more than once? Listen again

That most certainly is Mike on that tape...listen to his phrasing and voice inflection. It's heartbreaking, but it's him alright.

Also, people under the influence tend to be less guarded about speaking their thoughts and I agree that a person can have multiple issues and still be intelligent.

[Edited 10/6/11 17:24pm]

Cinnamon234 said:

^^^

I agree. That is definitely MJ on that tape. I don't know why some fans are still in denial about that.

Anyway, today was an interesting day as far as the trial goes.

The Defense claimed MJ took 8 Lorazepam pills, which led to him overdosing and contributing greatly to his death. Well The Toxicologist totally disproved that theory today because he stated only 1/40th of a 2mg Lorazepam pill was found in MJ's stomach. Seriously, some people need to face the facts, MJ did not take his own life and this is proven by evidence such as the Toxicologist's statement today, among many other factors. You cannot argue with facts. The Defense's theory that MJ took his own life that day is really idiotic.

Either way, The Toxicologist was an excellent witness for the Prosecution. The Investigator Elissa Fleak? Not so much. The Defense won there. She was weak.

I'd say it was a good day for both The Defense and The Prosecution today though, but more so the Prosecution thanks to Toxicologist Dan Anderson who definitely knew his stuff.

About the number of pills at MJ's bedside, yes it was astounding, but the FACT is that the majority of these medications were NOT found in MJ's system according to the Toxicologist and the Autopsy report.

[Edited 10/6/11 17:24pm]

The toxicologist was an excellent witness...very concise and credible. I can see Murray's case falling apart even more when the defense witnesses are cross examined.

I didn't mean to say it is fake, but that it might be fake - there's a difference:)

I'm not pronouncing myself on anything, I'm keeping options open.

With no personally investigated evidence, the public can only interpret what it sees and hears, that's normal, and it's its right.

It's also a healthy exercise to keep one's critical thinking up and functioning imo...

PatrickS77 said:

Flo6 said:

Oh thank you!

I just listened to it...

I can't help feeling awfully suspicious about the recording...

I have no idea why they would fake it, what their motives would be or how they would use it [I don't know enough about the ins & outs and ramifications on both sides of this case], and how this could be done technically [I don't know anything about audio], but my first thought was that it seems he is reading the text from a script [paper or screen]. It's the particular time and pacing between the thoughts and sentences that gave me that feeling.

Then, content-wise, it's an incredibly coherent text! I mean, all the major ideas, concerns, priorities and interests he had in his life - children, children's projects/hospitals, God, his performances, his audience's reception, his upcoming This Is It concert - it's all there, in 20-30 or so lines of text [barely a couple of minutes of speech it seemed to me].

For someone who was sick, severely sleep-deprived and "drugged out of his mind" to quote earlier comments in last week's thread, and barely able to utter 2 sentences at a more or less normal pace [according to this recording] that's an astounding achievement, to produce such a coherent, concise yet comprehensive speech!...

To think, I can't put 2 sentences together when I just have a simple stomachache, let alone discourse about my past and my life's future plans!...

My verdict: Not only there is more to this case than we can see, but there is also more than we can hear!...

Aha, so the recording is fake? Like the picture of dead Michael was fake? You should stop interpreting stuff into things.

[Edited 10/6/11 21:06pm]

Very true about some people with certain mental issues being intelligent too [I think the crazed, genial artist falls into that category, and others too.] I just find it very coincidental that MJ happens to be talking about all the things that matter, that the people involved in the case and we/the public would want to hear from him [all the major, relevant topics & issues] in that one very short segment.

True also, that some words sound much clearer than others.

My suggestion that the recording might be fake doesn't imply that it may not be MJ's voice. It may well be him. But I'm also considering the option that he was somehow forced to read this from a script. In any case, I have strong vibes that there might have been some tampering of sorts with this recording.

babynoz said:

alphastreet said:

People with mental health issues can be so intelligent too. That barrier doesn't wipe it away. If a spectator heard what he was saying, they could argue he is bipolar and having grand and unrealistic ideas about the hospital, although that is not my personal opinion though it could make for an interesting theory, but we know what his character is like already and that he's made contributions for decades.

Did you notice that there are certain words that sound very clear more than once? Listen again

That most certainly is Mike on that tape...listen to his phrasing and voice inflection. It's heartbreaking, but it's him alright.

Also, people under the influence tend to be less guarded about speaking their thoughts and I agree that a person can have multiple issues and still be intelligent.

Timmy84 said:

kibbles said:

but the sad thing is one, he will never admit he was wrong, assuming that he is asked to go back on these shows, and two, if he ever does go back on these shows, they will NEVER even ask him about his previous statements. i find it interesting that both he and deepak chopra present themselves as so 'holy' and 'spiritual' and 'righteous' and mj's body was barely cold before they were out there running their mouths about him.

Shows you what they REALLY are...

Then the same day that he died, his father rolled up in a van, and started taking stuff out of the house. Don't you find that strange?

^ Which Im sure the defense will have a field day with.

angel345 said:

Timmy84 said:

Shows you what they REALLY are...

Then the same day that he died, his father rolled up in a van, and started taking stuff out of the house. Don't you find that strange?

Real strange!

lazycrockett said:

^ Which Im sure the defense will have a field day with.

I wonder if they would even entertain it. I can imagine Joe being brought up in court for some odd reason...

SoulAlive said:

SHOCKADELICA1 said:

Gatdayum did y'all see ALL those bottles the prosecution pulled out?? That was insane!!

GOT PILLS!?! APPARENTLY, THESE ARE THE PILLS MICHAEL JACKSON HAD AT HIS BEDSIDE THE DAY HE DIED. NOT INCLUDING A BAG OF PROFOPOL THAT DR. CONRAD MURRAY HAD MJ'S SECURITY GUARD PUT AWAY ON DR. MURRAY'S ORDERS! THIS TRIAL IS GETTING INERESTING!

[Edited 10/6/11 15:51pm]

Those small bottles of white liquid with the bright blue caps... those are propofol as well. And I think the bigger bottles with the blue caps are propofol. Lots of propofol on that table in this picture.

So are we suppose to believe that Murray and MJ were spending nights on end injecting him with small doses of this shit? Cause if thats the case that is be presented then everyone involved is fucked up.

Waking up every 15 minutes from a propofal stupor and asking/demanding more is bizarre.

[Edited 10/6/11 22:25pm]

Timmy84 said:

Cinnamon234 said:

Ephedrine was found as well ( A small amount in his urine). I'm watching the live feed now and they just reported that, but he was not doing all these drugs people claimed he was.

What Murray and other Doctor's should have done is try to find out what the root of his Insomnia was. That to me seemed to be the main issue with MJ-lack of sleep.

[Edited 10/6/11 14:31pm]

THIS.

Maybe it was the Ephedrine. Isn't that found commonly in those "energy drinks" like 5 alive etc?

Ephedrine is a deravative of adrenaline... in the same family as speed.

If he was slamming those drinks until later in the evening... and then he is anxious about the coming tour... and he was a "type A" (which I suspect based on his energy level and stickeler for perfection... maybe this combination caused his insomnia.... he would not relax and unwind. An antianxiety medication could have been useful.

Flo6 said:

Very true about some people with certain mental issues being intelligent too [I think the crazed, genial artist falls into that category, and others too.] I just find it very coincidental that MJ happens to be talking about all the things that matter, that the people involved in the case and we/the public would want to hear from him [all the major, relevant topics & issues] in that one very short segment.

True also, that some words sound much clearer than others.

My suggestion that the recording might be fake doesn't imply that it may not be MJ's voice. It may well be him. But I'm also considering the option that he was somehow forced to read this from a script. In any case, I have strong vibes that there might have been some tampering of sorts with this recording.

babynoz said:

That most certainly is Mike on that tape...listen to his phrasing and voice inflection. It's heartbreaking, but it's him alright.

Also, people under the influence tend to be less guarded about speaking their thoughts and I agree that a person can have multiple issues and still be intelligent.

I just thought of something. It did seem odd the way MJ was like almost giving a speech. No one talks like that without some sort of feedback or verbal exchange with someone else.

Could Murray have "interviewed" MJ and either paused the recording or edit it so we only hear MJ's voice and not Murray's questions that would prompt a response like the one record?

angel345 said:

Timmy84 said:

Shows you what they REALLY are...

Then the same day that he died, his father rolled up in a van, and started taking stuff out of the house. Don't you find that strange?

Maybe he was removing memorialbilia that could be of value to someone. Like the gold records to MJ solo hits and J5 hits. You know... things like that.

prodigalfan said:

Timmy84 said:

THIS.

Maybe it was the Ephedrine. Isn't that found commonly in those "energy drinks" like 5 alive etc?

Ephedrine is a deravative of adrenaline... in the same family as speed.

If he was slamming those drinks until later in the evening... and then he is anxious about the coming tour... and he was a "type A" (which I suspect based on his energy level and stickeler for perfection... maybe this combination caused his insomnia.... he would not relax and unwind. An antianxiety medication could have been useful.

I read somewhere one day that he loves Coke drinks, and that has a lot of caffeine in it. Even sometimes, I try to avoid caffeine drinks at night because it keeps me up.

lazycrockett said:

^ Which Im sure the defense will have a field day with.

You believe so?

lazycrockett said:

So are we suppose to believe that Murray and MJ were spending nights on end injecting him with small doses of this shit? Cause if thats the case that is be presented then everyone involved is fucked up.

Waking up every 15 minutes from a propofal stupor and asking/demanding more is bizarre.

[Edited 10/6/11 22:25pm]

Not if it is given as a continuous drip. I have given it to patients on ventilators for almost 2 weeks. That is one medication that is used to keep epeople "sleeping" when they are in intensive care on life support. Some people could still be capable of pulling out their breathing tubes, disconnect the EKG leads... etc.

So you know them out. We used to say to combative people withdrawaling from alcohol... (very strong and very violent prone people when going through withdrawals...)

we used to say "sedate... until you intubate". It is done with a drip. I am quite sure that is what MJ had. Otherwise you are correct... what is the point of giving shots that last for 5 - 7 minutes?

prodigalfan said:

angel345 said:

Then the same day that he died, his father rolled up in a van, and started taking stuff out of the house. Don't you find that strange?

Maybe he was removing memorialbilia that could be of value to someone. Like the gold records to MJ solo hits and J5 hits. You know... things like that.

That sounds grimey

prodigalfan said:

lazycrockett said:

So are we suppose to believe that Murray and MJ were spending nights on end injecting him with small doses of this shit? Cause if thats the case that is be presented then everyone involved is fucked up.

Waking up every 15 minutes from a propofal stupor and asking/demanding more is bizarre.

[Edited 10/6/11 22:25pm]

Not if it is given as a continuous drip. I have given it to patients on ventilators for almost 2 weeks. That is one medication that is used to keep epeople "sleeping" when they are in intensive care on life support. Some people could still be capable of pulling out their breathing tubes, disconnect the EKG leads... etc.

So you know them out. We used to say to combative people withdrawaling from alcohol... (very strong and very violent prone people when going through withdrawals...)

we used to say "sedate... until you intubate". It is done with a drip. I am quite sure that is what MJ had. Otherwise you are correct... what is the point of giving shots that last for 5 - 7 minutes?

N Im a believer in the drip theory, but as of yet that hasn't been brought up by the prosecution and is just speculation right?

This still brings up the notion of how is MJ able to function with an aburd non amount of sleep?

prodigalfan said:

angel345 said:

Then the same day that he died, his father rolled up in a van, and started taking stuff out of the house. Don't you find that strange?

Maybe he was removing memorialbilia that could be of value to someone. Like the gold records to MJ solo hits and J5 hits. You know... things like that.

Michael said in interviews past that he never had gold records in his home. I don't know if he had them in storage. I always assumed the gold records were in Hayvenhurst, not in a rented mansion in Los Angeles.

prodigalfan said:

lazycrockett said:

So are we suppose to believe that Murray and MJ were spending nights on end injecting him with small doses of this shit? Cause if thats the case that is be presented then everyone involved is fucked up.

Waking up every 15 minutes from a propofal stupor and asking/demanding more is bizarre.

[Edited 10/6/11 22:25pm]

Not if it is given as a continuous drip. I have given it to patients on ventilators for almost 2 weeks. That is one medication that is used to keep epeople "sleeping" when they are in intensive care on life support. Some people could still be capable of pulling out their breathing tubes, disconnect the EKG leads... etc.

So you know them out. We used to say to combative people withdrawaling from alcohol... (very strong and very violent prone people when going through withdrawals...)

we used to say "sedate... until you intubate". It is done with a drip. I am quite sure that is what MJ had. Otherwise you are correct... what is the point of giving shots that last for 5 - 7 minutes?

N Im a believer in the drip theory, but as of yet that hasn't been brought up by the prosecution and is just speculation right?

This still brings up the notion of how is MJ able to function with an aburd non amount of sleep?

prodigalfan said:

SoulAlive said:

GOT PILLS!?! APPARENTLY, THESE ARE THE PILLS MICHAEL JACKSON HAD AT HIS BEDSIDE THE DAY HE DIED. NOT INCLUDING A BAG OF PROFOPOL THAT DR. CONRAD MURRAY HAD MJ'S SECURITY GUARD PUT AWAY ON DR. MURRAY'S ORDERS! THIS TRIAL IS GETTING INERESTING!

[Edited 10/6/11 15:51pm]

Those small bottles of white liquid with the bright blue caps... those are propofol as well. And I think the bigger bottles with the blue caps are propofol. Lots of propofol on that table in this picture.

Has to be propofol...

lazycrockett said:

prodigalfan said:

Not if it is given as a continuous drip. I have given it to patients on ventilators for almost 2 weeks. That is one medication that is used to keep epeople "sleeping" when they are in intensive care on life support. Some people could still be capable of pulling out their breathing tubes, disconnect the EKG leads... etc.

So you know them out. We used to say to combative people withdrawaling from alcohol... (very strong and very violent prone people when going through withdrawals...)

we used to say "sedate... until you intubate". It is done with a drip. I am quite sure that is what MJ had. Otherwise you are correct... what is the point of giving shots that last for 5 - 7 minutes?

N Im a believer in the drip theory, but as of yet that hasn't been brought up by the prosecution and is just speculation right?

This still brings up the notion of how is MJ able to function with an aburd non amount of sleep?

gosh.... they haven't said a word about a continuous drip? I hope they are clear... a lot of 'lay people" will not know this unless someone explains it.

prodigalfan said:

lazycrockett said:

N Im a believer in the drip theory, but as of yet that hasn't been brought up by the prosecution and is just speculation right?

This still brings up the notion of how is MJ able to function with an aburd non amount of sleep?

gosh.... they haven't said a word about a continuous drip? I hope they are clear... a lot of 'lay people" will not know this unless someone explains it.

That is interesting that no one talks about it... I wonder how long the prosecution's got until the defense presents their case. I doubt the defense would bring that drip theory up either.

here's a question for thought, I heard that Tupac was 215 at death (an obvious mistake, by at least 30 pounds) is it possible that mike's weight was similarly off? I saw an interview with Pac's coroner and he said that it was common to be off like that (I know, strange). Mike was 136 and that's thin but not sickly as we always hear. I remember he gave his weight as 120 for his arrest and I distinctly remember that in his prime he weighed 105 pounds, in fact, I always thought the eating disorder was what made his face look so dramatically different in those prime years, not surgery (yet).