Timmy84 said:

NaughtyKitty said:

Pics - Trial Edition

This past weekend Conrad Murray was snapped out getting a pedicure

Yesterday (Sunday) Katherine, Tito, Marlon, Jackie, Prince, Paris, Blanket, Jafar and Jermajesty attended the primier of the Michael Jackson Immortal Cirque de Solei show. They will not be at court this week--as the Forever Michael tribute concert in Cardiff also happens on Saturday. They are expected to return back home for the rest of the trial next week.

I can't help but make this comment. I tried to not do it because it was off topic and controversial... but oh well.

I read thru the names and then looked to try to figure out who was who among the kids. Then I noticed that MJ's kids were the one who do not look bi-racial...African American + ____________

Sorry. But they don't look white... but they sure don't look like they have any African American either. Skin color is "wrong". No yellow or brown. They look more like olive skin tone or sallow. But not brown or yellow like the other kids. And their hair is STRAIGHT... not curly or wavy... pretty straight.

Okay, sorry I

prodigalfan said:

NaughtyKitty said:

Pics - Trial Edition

This past weekend Conrad Murray was snapped out getting a pedicure

Yesterday (Sunday) Katherine, Tito, Marlon, Jackie, Prince, Paris, Blanket, Jafar and Jermajesty attended the primier of the Michael Jackson Immortal Cirque de Solei show. They will not be at court this week--as the Forever Michael tribute concert in Cardiff also happens on Saturday. They are expected to return back home for the rest of the trial next week.

I can't help but make this comment. I tried to not do it because it was off topic and controversial... but oh well.

I read thru the names and then looked to try to figure out who was who among the kids. Then I noticed that MJ's kids were the one who do not look bi-racial...African American + ____________

Sorry. But they don't look white... but they sure don't look like they have any African American either. Skin color is "wrong". No yellow or brown. They look more like olive skin tone or sallow. But not brown or yellow like the other kids. And their hair is STRAIGHT... not curly or wavy... pretty straight.

Okay, sorry I

You lost me. I thought everyone knew that his two older children were from Debbie, who is white and by an anoymous male donor. Blanket--no one knows who the donors were. Michael was their parent in every sense of the word and not merely as "sperm donor" as so many "blood" parents are.

purplethunder3121 said:

prodigalfan said:

I can't help but make this comment. I tried to not do it because it was off topic and controversial... but oh well.

I read thru the names and then looked to try to figure out who was who among the kids. Then I noticed that MJ's kids were the one who do not look bi-racial...African American + ____________

Sorry. But they don't look white... but they sure don't look like they have any African American either. Skin color is "wrong". No yellow or brown. They look more like olive skin tone or sallow. But not brown or yellow like the other kids. And their hair is STRAIGHT... not curly or wavy... pretty straight.

Okay, sorry I

You lost me. I thought everyone knew that his two older children were from Debbie, who is white and by an anoymous male donor. Blanket--no one knows who the donors were. Michael was their parent in every sense of the word and not merely as "sperm donor" as so many "blood" parents are.

yeah, I know that is what I have always thought... there are some fans who will fight tooth and nail that MJ is their blood father.

However, I will say that based on their obvious connection and love shown toward their father when he died... I will say MJ was their father. He stood over their cribs late at night and watched them sleep as babies.

Those are his.

I just realized that any doubts I have in my head about MJ being blood father are now put to rest.

Oh and also... I don't believe Debbie Rowe is their natural mother. I think she was a surrogate... donor eggs and donor sperm... that way she has NO claim on those kids whatsoever and would explain how she could just walk away from her kids.

I can't believe it is due to greed and money. There are plenty of exwives that have physical custody of kids and huge child support checks. (ask Lionel Ritchie, Paul McCartney, etc).

Debbie would have gotten $$ and have her kids in her life. So I can't think of any reason she would leave her kids except they were not her kids.

She was paid to be a surrogate... and it was easier to enter a contract marriage that way there would be no mess concerning media questions about the whole situation.

After MJ no longer needed her to have kids... they had their pre-arranged end of marriage.

Woah........Step Back.

Lets NOT even open that.

Prodigal, did you HAVE TO!?!

Please remove that, please.

THE CASE IS NOT ABOUT THE CHILDREN. That's why there's an MJ sticky for that but then again fans are tired of talking about that jumbled mess anyway lmao

Timmy84 said:

Prodigal, did you HAVE TO!?!

I'm sorry.....

prodigalfan said:

Timmy84 said:

Prodigal, did you HAVE TO!?!

I'm sorry.....

People tend to go off topic. Remember the MJ sticky!

prodigalfan said:

purplethunder3121 said:

You lost me. I thought everyone knew that his two older children were from Debbie, who is white and by an anoymous male donor. Blanket--no one knows who the donors were. Michael was their parent in every sense of the word and not merely as "sperm donor" as so many "blood" parents are.

yeah, I know that is what I have always thought... there are some fans who will fight tooth and nail that MJ is their blood father.

However, I will say that based on their obvious connection and love shown toward their father when he died... I will say MJ was their father. He stood over their cribs late at night and watched them sleep as babies.

Those are his.

I just realized that any doubts I have in my head about MJ being blood father are now put to rest.

Oh and also... I don't believe Debbie Rowe is their natural mother. I think she was a surrogate... donor eggs and donor sperm... that way she has NO claim on those kids whatsoever and would explain how she could just walk away from her kids.

I can't believe it is due to greed and money. There are plenty of exwives that have physical custody of kids and huge child support checks. (ask Lionel Ritchie, Paul McCartney, etc).

Debbie would have gotten $$ and have her kids in her life. So I can't think of any reason she would leave her kids except they were not her kids.

She was paid to be a surrogate... and it was easier to enter a contract marriage that way there would be no mess concerning media questions about the whole situation.

After MJ no longer needed her to have kids... they had their pre-arranged end of marriage.

you're absolutely wrong if you think a woman won't walk away from her kids. it happens everyday. and if you think greed isn't a great motivator, then exactly how do you explain conrad murray demanding $5m for a job he wasn't qualified to do?

just because you don't think they look like her, doesn't mean others see something different. to me, paris looks a better looking version of debbie, and prince has her pronounced chin, so to each is own.

i had a cousin who was (to paraphrase ralphie may) so dark that the only difference between her and midnight was 11:59. yet her son, my second cousin billy could pass for italian b/c his father is white. so yeah, mj may not be their bio father, but the fact that the kids don't look biracial means nothing.

kibbles said:

prodigalfan said:

yeah, I know that is what I have always thought... there are some fans who will fight tooth and nail that MJ is their blood father.

However, I will say that based on their obvious connection and love shown toward their father when he died... I will say MJ was their father. He stood over their cribs late at night and watched them sleep as babies.

Those are his.

I just realized that any doubts I have in my head about MJ being blood father are now put to rest.

Oh and also... I don't believe Debbie Rowe is their natural mother. I think she was a surrogate... donor eggs and donor sperm... that way she has NO claim on those kids whatsoever and would explain how she could just walk away from her kids.

I can't believe it is due to greed and money. There are plenty of exwives that have physical custody of kids and huge child support checks. (ask Lionel Ritchie, Paul McCartney, etc).

Debbie would have gotten $$ and have her kids in her life. So I can't think of any reason she would leave her kids except they were not her kids.

She was paid to be a surrogate... and it was easier to enter a contract marriage that way there would be no mess concerning media questions about the whole situation.

After MJ no longer needed her to have kids... they had their pre-arranged end of marriage.

you're absolutely wrong if you think a woman won't walk away from her kids. it happens everyday. and if you think greed isn't a great motivator, then exactly how do you explain conrad murray demanding $5m for a job he wasn't qualified to do?

just because you don't think they look like her, doesn't mean others see something different. to me, paris looks a better looking version of debbie, and prince has her pronounced chin, so to each is own.

i had a cousin who was (to paraphrase ralphie may) so dark that the only difference between her and midnight was 11:59. yet her son, my second cousin billy could pass for italian b/c his father is white. so yeah, mj may not be their bio father, but the fact that the kids don't look biracial means nothing.

^

I disagree....

KIBBLES!

Erm...so, back on topic.

In a criminal trial the prosecution cannot compel the defendant to testify. In this case it's doubtful that the defense will allow Murray to testify since he would almost certainly be destroyed on cross-examination.

Also, repetitive questioning in a trial is a common tactic attorneys use in an attempt to impeach the witness' testimony when the credibility of the witness is not in question. In other words, if you can't discredit someone then you try to trip 'em up.

I think the defense knows they don't have a leg to stand on, but they still have to do their best to give Murray his day in court. I'd hate to be in their position.

Thanks Baby

I agree, the defense will not allow the doctor to go on the stand... No way.

prodigalfan said:

Thanks Baby

I agree, the defense will not allow the doctor to go on the stand... No way.

I tell ya, he's such a screw up his lawyers probably wish he didn't even have to be in the courtroom,

They totally know Murray did wrong and are going to get destroyed, though I'm also curious about what they will say though we already have an idea of what it is.

The defense did score a point when Dr. Richelle Cooper said that 25mm of propofal wouldn't be enough to put someone out for a surgerical procedure. 25mm is the amount that Murray has stated that was all he used on MJ that evening.

I'm surprised they don't challenge some of Murray's statements since he was not Mirandarized before giving statements and some of these statements arebeingused against him as evidence... like the statements to the paramedics and the ER doctor.

lazycrockett said:

The defense did score a point when Dr. Richelle Cooper said that 25mm of propofal wouldn't be enough to put someone out for a surgerical procedure. 25mm is the amount that Murray has stated that was all he used on MJ that evening.

But even so, it was combined with the lorazepam and the other drugs administered throughout the night as reported in 2009. And no matter what was administered and by who, he was clearly left alone and not worked on immediately by Murray, it all keeps coming back to that. And even if MJ woke up and "did something" after being left alone, he was not found in a weird position after doing so, and if he was, there is no reason the defense would leave that out.

[Edited 10/3/11 20:56pm]

alphastreet said:

lazycrockett said:

The defense did score a point when Dr. Richelle Cooper said that 25mm of propofal wouldn't be enough to put someone out for a surgerical procedure. 25mm is the amount that Murray has stated that was all he used on MJ that evening.

But even so, it was combined with the lorazepam and the other drugs administered throughout the night as reported in 2009. And no matter what was administered and by who, he was clearly left alone and not worked on immediately by Murray, it all keeps coming back to that. And even if MJ woke up and "did something" after being left alone, he was not found in a weird position after doing so, and if he was, there is no reason the defense would leave that out.

[Edited 10/3/11 20:56pm]

That was the only thing the defense could get right...

^The defense will say that Murray checked on MJ and since it was only 25mm and MJ seemed to be sleeping, Murray left. According to the testimony today the dosage would only have an effect on the body for bout 5 minutes.

I know Murray said he left MJ alone for 2 minutes but thus far that isnt written in stone. Thats why the prosecution is doing the timeline with the phones charts today.

lazycrockett said:

^The defense will say that Murray checked on MJ and since it was only 25mm and MJ seemed to be sleeping, Murray left. According to the testimony today the dosage would only have an effect on the body for bout 5 minutes.

I know Murray said he left MJ alone for 2 minutes but thus far that isnt written in stone. Thats why the prosecution is doing the timeline with the phones charts today.

If he left the scene after about two minutes, and if he actually gets to testify and say he did say that and then try to switch it, then it just leaves him in more trouble. That's why it'll be hard for him to explain. I mean I know the defense wants to present reasonable doubt and all but to anyone viewing the case, it's not that simple but I'm guessing the prosecution will present everything else along with the phone charts later.

Timmy84 said:

lazycrockett said:

^The defense will say that Murray checked on MJ and since it was only 25mm and MJ seemed to be sleeping, Murray left. According to the testimony today the dosage would only have an effect on the body for bout 5 minutes.

I know Murray said he left MJ alone for 2 minutes but thus far that isnt written in stone. Thats why the prosecution is doing the timeline with the phones charts today.

If he left the scene after about two minutes, and if he actually gets to testify and say he did say that and then try to switch it, then it just leaves him in more trouble. That's why it'll be hard for him to explain. I mean I know the defense wants to present reasonable doubt and all but to anyone viewing the case, it's not that simple but I'm guessing the prosecution will present everything else along with the phone charts later.

Well Im saying that, the defense will say , Murray left the room after the effects of the propofal had worn off and MJ seemed to be finally asleep. Not that right after Murray hit the drip that he left the room.

[Edited 10/3/11 21:04pm]

lazycrockett said:

Timmy84 said:

If he left the scene after about two minutes, and if he actually gets to testify and say he did say that and then try to switch it, then it just leaves him in more trouble. That's why it'll be hard for him to explain. I mean I know the defense wants to present reasonable doubt and all but to anyone viewing the case, it's not that simple but I'm guessing the prosecution will present everything else along with the phone charts later.

Well Im saying that, the defense will say , Murray left the room after the effects of the propofal had worn off and MJ seemed to be finally asleep. Not that right after Murray hit the drip that he left the room.

[Edited 10/3/11 21:04pm]

Dummy probably killed him without knowing it. You can appear asleep when you're dead. It surely wouldn't be the first case where this has happened.

lazycrockett said:

^The defense will say that Murray checked on MJ and since it was only 25mm and MJ seemed to be sleeping, Murray left. According to the testimony today the dosage would only have an effect on the body for bout 5 minutes.

I know Murray said he left MJ alone for 2 minutes but thus far that isnt written in stone. Thats why the prosecution is doing the timeline with the phones charts today.

What's the point of giving 25mm if its effects are going to be for 5 minutes? MJ had already been up the entire night, that seems like a waste of time. Surely, he gave more.

Well I think pretty much everyone involved in the trial thinks it wasn't with malice or intend. The best they could get was involuntary manslaughter. Thats very low on the pole.

kellistarr120 said:

lazycrockett said:

^The defense will say that Murray checked on MJ and since it was only 25mm and MJ seemed to be sleeping, Murray left. According to the testimony today the dosage would only have an effect on the body for bout 5 minutes.

I know Murray said he left MJ alone for 2 minutes but thus far that isnt written in stone. Thats why the prosecution is doing the timeline with the phones charts today.

What's the point of giving 25mm if its effects are going to be for 5 minutes? MJ had already been up the entire night, that seems like a waste of time. Surely, he gave more.

Well from what Im putting together is MJ had already taken lopamzame and was basically using the propofal to put him under, reducing his anxiety bout not being able to sleep, and then the other drug would take over. If Klein was doping MJ up with that other drug which causes insomnia they were using the propofal to combat that effect.

lazycrockett said:

kellistarr120 said:

What's the point of giving 25mm if its effects are going to be for 5 minutes? MJ had already been up the entire night, that seems like a waste of time. Surely, he gave more.

Well from what Im putting together is MJ had already taken lopamzame and was basically using the propofal to put him under, reducing his anxiety bout not being able to sleep, and then the other drug would take over. If Klein was doping MJ up with that other drug which causes insomnia they were using the propofal to combat that effect.

I wonder if Klein will be called to testify. He definitely is suspect!

lazycrockett said:

Timmy84 said:

If he left the scene after about two minutes, and if he actually gets to testify and say he did say that and then try to switch it, then it just leaves him in more trouble. That's why it'll be hard for him to explain. I mean I know the defense wants to present reasonable doubt and all but to anyone viewing the case, it's not that simple but I'm guessing the prosecution will present everything else along with the phone charts later.

Well Im saying that, the defense will say , Murray left the room after the effects of the propofal had worn off and MJ seemed to be finally asleep. Not that right after Murray hit the drip that he left the room.

[Edited 10/3/11 21:04pm]

Are you saying that within 5 minutes the effects wore off and then MJ was sleeping? Somehow, I was thinking it wore off and then MJ would be awake, but I guess not necessarily so. But then, the defense are saying that he more than likely woke up. Which is more likely? Waking up or staying asleep? How can the defense convince the jury that MJ woke up?