NaughtyKitty said:

Well it didnt take long for fan pages for Dr. Steinberg and Walgren to hit the net lol!

http://www.facebook.com/p...01?sk=wall

https://www.facebook.com/...10?sk=wall

That's pathetic honestly.

babybugz said:

NaughtyKitty said:

Well it didnt take long for fan pages for Dr. Steinberg and Walgren to hit the net lol!

http://www.facebook.com/p...01?sk=wall

https://www.facebook.com/...10?sk=wall

That's pathetic honestly.

Pathetic and sad.

angel345 said:

MJ could go to 100 different doctors. It doesn't matter how the defense slice it, the burden of responsibility lies on the doctor. A doctor has to know when to say no, and both doctors brought it out. To my understanding, Murray did not keep any medical records, no documents of verbal and written agreement between doctor and patient, and risks of propofol, and he was aware of MJ's visits to Klein.

Murray was looking for money, he wasn't looking to care of Michael as his patient.

It's crazy to me that they are wasting so much time, money, and energy on this idiot who is obviously guilty as sin. I know in America you are innocent until proven guilty so they see the need to waste tax dollars trying to prove innocence but come on. This 'Doctor' is beyond negligent, guilty, and incompetent. I work with Propfol on a daily basis in my profession (I'm a Veterinary Technician) and the defense's argument is soo ridiculous it makes me wonder why I just didn't go to school to be an idiot doctor or stupid lawyer because they aren't showing themselves to be intelligent to me right now...lord knows they sure get paid a shitload more than I do to be beyond stupid.

There was no way in hell MJ could have given himself a fatal dose of Propofol after supposedly ingesting all those Lorezapams. First off, he'd have fallen asleep and/or died in the bathroom or they would have found all those little pills in his stomach upon autopsy so that argument didn't make since from the moment it left their ignorant lips. Secondly, Propfol is pretty quick. MJ weighed less than 115 pound upon his death and was already drugged prior to that fatal dose. I've watched 150 pound dogs take the low end of their Propofol dose after being pre-sedated (but very much awake) and they are sound asleep in less than 1 minute. They sure as fuck don't 'play possum' for us...hellz no they are asleep PERIOD.

Okay Mr. Defense on to your next stupid argument.

After MJ woke up, because he was 'playing possum' , went into the bathroom and swallowed enough sleeping pills to put down 8 grown men twice his size, and then he decided to either drink Propofol or re-inject himself with said fatal dose...BULLSHIT, BULLSHIT, AND BULLSHIT! First off, Propofol absolutely has to go into the vein (IV) because otherwise it burns like a son of a bitch...this is coming from seeing dogs and cats freaking the fuck out because an IV catheter was not placed properly when the Propofol was injected. He would have screamed and the IV catheter was way down his leg...not an easily accessible place to just inject into when he was no doubt already half awake from the previous Propofol dose, all those supposed Lorezapams, and the shitloads of other drugs he had still had in his system.

Secondly, Propofol ingestion is damn near impossible because they don't come in twist off capped vials...we have to inject a needle into that little rubber stopper to get the drug out of the bottle...not easy to do when you're half a-fucking-sleep already. Plus, ingesting it wouldn't do anything anyway and they would have found more in his stomach...along with all those supposedly ingested Lorezapam tablets which OMG weren't even in his stomach and were barely in his bloodstream upon toxocology testing...seriously, do they think we're as dumb as they are to believe all this shit?

Anyone who thinks this asshole isn't guilty is just as dumb as he and his lawyers are. He deserves waay more than 4 years in jail for what he did. Dr. Kevorkian got 8 years in prison for ASSISTED suicides for people DYING from terminal cancer. Those poor people even signed waivers saying it was their decisions yet this Doctor went to jail for 8 years for helping end their pain and suffering. MJ was healthy and damn sure wasn't wanting to die but this poor excuse of a doctor killed him in front of 2 of his children. He should be getting at least 10 years, losing his license, and be charged with child endangerment and pain and suffering for all those who have to accept that he killed Michael Jackson...ie his children, family, and his fans.

This arrogant prick took a hippocratic oath to save lives when he became a doctor...sad that money overshadowed that oath in the end and cost a man his life and 3 children their father. I'm no damn doctor but I know how to give CPR and I know that HELLO where the hell was the epinephrine douchbag? Where was the Doxapram and Atropine...you know crash drugs that a fucking doctor should know to use and have around when cardiac arrest and respiratory arrest are possible adverse side effects written on the side of the goddamned bottle of the drug you are irresponsibly administering to your patient outside of the proper hospital environment?

This dude is a damn cardiologist and no epinephrine was used to try to jump start MJ's heart (watching fuckin 'Pulp Fiction' taught us how to do it...we didn't even need 8+ years of medical school, just sayin). How the hell is it that me, a Veterinary Technician, knows this but the human Cardiologist didn't seem to have a fucking clue? Hmmm, seriously, maybe I should go back to school and become a human doctor considering that it doesn't seem that many of them seem to really know all that much anyway. Sorry to all the good doctors out there. This asshole and all the assholes like him who have made prescription drugs more lethal than the illegal ones are tainting your profession big time. If I'm going to die from a drug overdose, I'll just go to my local 'street pharmacist'...at least I know he can't get paid via my insurance or medicare. Just my 'Dr.' Conrad Murray is guilty...on to the next one.

[Edited 10/13/11 13:56pm]

Timmy84 said:

babybugz said:

That's pathetic honestly.

Pathetic and sad.

Yeah its ridiculous. Dont know why these people want to start fan pages for these two. Yes they're great at what they do but devoting a Facebook page to them? I've even seen some MJ fans posting pictures of Dr. Steinburg in their siggies underneath their pic of MJ.

angel345 said:

MJ could go to 100 different doctors. It doesn't matter how the defense slice it, the burden of responsibility lies on the doctor. A doctor has to know when to say no, and both doctors brought it out. To my understanding, Murray did not keep any medical records, no documents of verbal and written agreement between doctor and patient, and risks of propofol, and he was aware of MJ's visits to Klein.

yes, after saying in his interview that he didn't know if mj was seeing other docs, he not only name drops klein, adams, and i think someone else, but he also states what klein and adams were allegedly giving to mj. either mj told him about these docs, or they told murray about mj, and murray's fabricating and embellishing the circumstances and events to make them out to be more than they were to deflect attention from his own actions.

mj had a legit reason to see klein, who is definitely a weird dude. however, klein kept records, and there have been no charges brought against him in connection with his treatment of mj. same thing w/adams.

if mj was addicted to the demerol klein was allegedly administering, why would murray then administer even more addictive drugs at night, if he suspected that mj had a substance abuse problem that klein was fostering? if adams was really giving mj propofol to sleep, then why not get him to help you administer it properly? of course, as timmy said, the answer is greed and money, and i really don't understand how the defense is going to spin any of these facts in their favor.

[Edited 10/13/11 14:08pm]

NaughtyKitty said:

Timmy84 said:

Pathetic and sad.

Yeah its ridiculous. Dont know why these people want to start fan pages for these two. Yes they're great at what they do but devoting a Facebook page to them? I've even seen some MJ fans posting pictures of Dr. Steinburg in their siggies underneath their pic of MJ.

estelle81 said:

It's crazy to me that they are wasting so much time, money, and energy on this idiot who is obviously guilty as sin. I know in America you are innocent until proven guilty so they see the need to waste tax dollars trying to prove innocence but come on. This 'Doctor' is beyond negligent, guilty, and incompetent.

[Edited 10/13/11 13:56pm]

NaughtyKitty said:

Timmy84 said:

Pathetic and sad.

Yeah its ridiculous. Dont know why these people want to start fan pages for these two. Yes they're great at what they do but devoting a Facebook page to them? I've even seen some MJ fans posting pictures of Dr. Steinburg in their siggies underneath their pic of MJ.

They are dumbasses and have no life.

Timmy84 said:

NaughtyKitty said:

Yeah its ridiculous. Dont know why these people want to start fan pages for these two. Yes they're great at what they do but devoting a Facebook page to them? I've even seen some MJ fans posting pictures of Dr. Steinburg in their siggies underneath their pic of MJ.

Another reason why I stay away from those MJ boards.

babybugz said:

Timmy84 said:

Another reason why I stay away from those MJ boards.

Yeah I feel ya.

NaughtyKitty said:

Timmy84 said:

Pathetic and sad.

Yeah its ridiculous. Dont know why these people want to start fan pages for these two. Yes they're great at what they do but devoting a Facebook page to them? I've even seen some MJ fans posting pictures of Dr. Steinburg in their siggies underneath their pic of MJ.

It is a bit over the top but so what leave people to create what they want, there not bothering anyone. I dislike facebook and think its silly and can be distructive place but I won't get all righteous and start looking my nose down at it either coz who am I to judge.

People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

no offence intended!

^ I just think it's weird lol they did the same with T. Mez during the 2005 trial all going "he fine and he LIKES a black woman!"

catpark said:

NaughtyKitty said:

Yeah its ridiculous. Dont know why these people want to start fan pages for these two. Yes they're great at what they do but devoting a Facebook page to them? I've even seen some MJ fans posting pictures of Dr. Steinburg in their siggies underneath their pic of MJ.

It is a bit over the top but so what leave people to create what they want, there not bothering anyone. I dislike facebook and think its silly and can be distructive place but I won't get all righteous and start looking my nose down at it either coz who am I to judge.

People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

no offence intended!

There's no need to get all defensive over people's comments. Please, nobody's being self righteous and looking down on people here. Its called expressing an opinion. For the record people are free to create fan pages for the prosecutor and such if they want to and people are free to express their distaste for it if they dont like it. People can express opinions on the internet you know

[Edited 10/13/11 16:22pm]

Timmy84 said:

^ I just think it's weird lol they did the same with T. Mez during the 2005 trial all going "he fine and he LIKES a black woman!"

Yeah I remember that Although I really like T. Mez, he did a great job in that trial

NaughtyKitty said:

Timmy84 said:

^ I just think it's weird lol they did the same with T. Mez during the 2005 trial all going "he fine and he LIKES a black woman!"

Yeah I remember that Although I really like T. Mez, he did a great job in that trial

T. Mez is cool lol

kibbles said:

angel345 said:

MJ could go to 100 different doctors. It doesn't matter how the defense slice it, the burden of responsibility lies on the doctor. A doctor has to know when to say no, and both doctors brought it out. To my understanding, Murray did not keep any medical records, no documents of verbal and written agreement between doctor and patient, and risks of propofol, and he was aware of MJ's visits to Klein.

yes, after saying in his interview that he didn't know if mj was seeing other docs, he not only name drops klein, adams, and i think someone else, but he also states what klein and adams were allegedly giving to mj. either mj told him about these docs, or they told murray about mj, and murray's fabricating and embellishing the circumstances and events to make them out to be more than they were to deflect attention from his own actions.

mj had a legit reason to see klein, who is definitely a weird dude. however, klein kept records, and there have been no charges brought against him in connection with his treatment of mj. same thing w/adams.

if mj was addicted to the demerol klein was allegedly administering, why would murray then administer even more addictive drugs at night, if he suspected that mj had a substance abuse problem that klein was fostering? if adams was really giving mj propofol to sleep, then why not get him to help you administer it properly? of course, as timmy said, the answer is greed and money, and i really don't understand how the defense is going to spin any of these facts in their favor.

[Edited 10/13/11 14:08pm]

@ the bolded. This was the argument in court today.

Timmy84 said:

angel345 said:

MJ could go to 100 different doctors. It doesn't matter how the defense slice it, the burden of responsibility lies on the doctor. A doctor has to know when to say no, and both doctors brought it out. To my understanding, Murray did not keep any medical records, no documents of verbal and written agreement between doctor and patient, and risks of propofol, and he was aware of MJ's visits to Klein.

Murray was looking for money, he wasn't looking to care of Michael as his patient.

As many of us can see, greed comes with an awful price.

NaughtyKitty said:

Timmy84 said:

Pathetic and sad.

Yeah its ridiculous. Dont know why these people want to start fan pages for these two. Yes they're great at what they do but devoting a Facebook page to them? I've even seen some MJ fans posting pictures of Dr. Steinburg in their siggies underneath their pic of MJ.

kibbles said:

estelle81 said:

It's crazy to me that they are wasting so much time, money, and energy on this idiot who is obviously guilty as sin. I know in America you are innocent until proven guilty so they see the need to waste tax dollars trying to prove innocence but come on. This 'Doctor' is beyond negligent, guilty, and incompetent.

[Edited 10/13/11 13:56pm]

i hope people who continue to think that the defense actually *has one* outside of character assassination of the victim actually take the time to read what you wrote.

Ugh, that's what I'm guessing they're going to do. I hope the prosecution makes two things very clear, since unfortunately a LOT of people in the world are dumb and/or mean as shit and the defense is counting on those people being on the jury. First, even IF MJ was an addict or a terrible person or whatever other crap they'll try to claim, when did it become legal to kill somebody because they have an addiction or because you don't like them? Second, if he WAS an addict, that should make what Murray did even worse. I mean, the dude is a DOCTOR. Providing drugs to a patient with an addiction is like prescribing Twinkies to a diabetic or sending a skin cancer patient to a tanning bed. It. Does. Not. Matter. what else MJ did or didn't do in his life. Unless he killed himself, and the defense has already admitted he didn't, nothing else he may or may not have done matters. But of course the defense will likely portray him as someone the jury shouldn't have sympathy for, and sadly that's often enough to get criminals off -- just think of the tactics defense attorneys have successfully used when their clients are accused of murdering a prostitute or transgender person and there's loads of evidence. They're gonna use that same bullshit here, counting on people's bigotry.

Arbwyth said:

kibbles said:

i hope people who continue to think that the defense actually *has one* outside of character assassination of the victim actually take the time to read what you wrote.

Ugh, that's what I'm guessing they're going to do. I hope the prosecution makes two things very clear, since unfortunately a LOT of people in the world are dumb and/or mean as shit and the defense is counting on those people being on the jury. First, even IF MJ was an addict or a terrible person or whatever other crap they'll try to claim, when did it become legal to kill somebody because they have an addiction or because you don't like them? Second, if he WAS an addict, that should make what Murray did even worse. I mean, the dude is a DOCTOR. Providing drugs to a patient with an addiction is like prescribing Twinkies to a diabetic or sending a skin cancer patient to a tanning bed. It. Does. Not. Matter. what else MJ did or didn't do in his life. Unless he killed himself, and the defense has already admitted he didn't, nothing else he may or may not have done matters. But of course the defense will likely portray him as someone the jury shouldn't have sympathy for, and sadly that's often enough to get criminals off -- just think of the tactics defense attorneys have successfully used when their clients are accused of murdering a prostitute or transgender person and there's loads of evidence. They're gonna use that same bullshit here, counting on people's bigotry.

co-sign.

i heard some of murray's police interview, and it kind of struck me that he seemed to be implying just what you suggest: mj was an 'inhumane' man with a weird foot fungus who went to his other docs to get drugged up at all hours. these snide comments were intended to engage in subtle character assassination, so i think that's exactly what they're going for, and i hope the prosecutors are prepared for them.

I seem to remember that when the jury was selected, several of them were described that had family members that were drug addicts. Whether that's helpful to either the defence or prosecution remains to be seen.

estelle81 said:

MJ weighed less than 115 pound upon his death and was already drugged prior to that fatal dose.

Correction. According to the autopsy report, MJ weighed 136 lbs. The 115 figure was widely reported right after his death, but that was not correct.

kibbles said:

i heard some of murray's police interview, and it kind of struck me that he seemed to be implying just what you suggest: mj was an 'inhumane' man with a weird foot fungus who went to his other docs to get drugged up at all hours. these snide comments were intended to engage in subtle character assassination, so i think that's exactly what they're going for, and i hope the prosecutors are prepared for them.

WTF? Did Murray mean athlete's foot? Doesn't, like, every other person on the face of the planet have that? Hell, I have a fungus that grows on my damn body, and it's really not a big deal. You don't get it by being unhygienic or anything, not that that should matter. Jesus, that man is a piece of work. Now I hope there are also plenty of jurists who have athlete's foot so they can be offended by Murray's dumbass remarks.

dag said:

L4OATheOriginal said:

my assumption is that dr shafer will the be the last witness for the prosecution which will last for the rest of the day, then on monday (no court on friday) the defense will present their case

I just cannot imagine what BS they are going to present. I think they will try only to discredit and insult Michael. That's all they will try to do.

I hope they call Klein to the stand. Hopefully, he they will get enough info to lock him up too.

I've missed a few days of the court proceedings, and worse, a few pages of this thread [ ], but I'm starting to increasingly feel like Dr. Murray is 'a doctor' in nothing but title. Neither in general medicine, nor surgery, nor anything that vaguely resembles the professional practice of medicine/health care.

To me, he looks more like some crook involved in shady deals [for business reasons or other profits/self-interests]. He may have been using the practice of medicine and this Doctor title as a mask for his shady activities and said personal interests.

I can't dig too deep into this because I lack info, but these are my gut feelings... and there are strong.

kibbles said:

Arbwyth said:

Ugh, that's what I'm guessing they're going to do. I hope the prosecution makes two things very clear, since unfortunately a LOT of people in the world are dumb and/or mean as shit and the defense is counting on those people being on the jury. First, even IF MJ was an addict or a terrible person or whatever other crap they'll try to claim, when did it become legal to kill somebody because they have an addiction or because you don't like them? Second, if he WAS an addict, that should make what Murray did even worse. I mean, the dude is a DOCTOR. Providing drugs to a patient with an addiction is like prescribing Twinkies to a diabetic or sending a skin cancer patient to a tanning bed. It. Does. Not. Matter. what else MJ did or didn't do in his life. Unless he killed himself, and the defense has already admitted he didn't, nothing else he may or may not have done matters. But of course the defense will likely portray him as someone the jury shouldn't have sympathy for, and sadly that's often enough to get criminals off -- just think of the tactics defense attorneys have successfully used when their clients are accused of murdering a prostitute or transgender person and there's loads of evidence. They're gonna use that same bullshit here, counting on people's bigotry.

co-sign.

i heard some of murray's police interview, and it kind of struck me that he seemed to be implying just what you suggest: mj was an 'inhumane' man with a weird foot fungus who went to his other docs to get drugged up at all hours. these snide comments were intended to engage in subtle character assassination, so i think that's exactly what they're going for, and i hope the prosecutors are prepared for them.

Arbwyth said:

kibbles said:

i hope people who continue to think that the defense actually *has one* outside of character assassination of the victim actually take the time to read what you wrote.

Ugh, that's what I'm guessing they're going to do. I hope the prosecution makes two things very clear, since unfortunately a LOT of people in the world are dumb and/or mean as shit and the defense is counting on those people being on the jury. First, even IF MJ was an addict or a terrible person or whatever other crap they'll try to claim, when did it become legal to kill somebody because they have an addiction or because you don't like them? Second, if he WAS an addict, that should make what Murray did even worse. I mean, the dude is a DOCTOR. Providing drugs to a patient with an addiction is like prescribing Twinkies to a diabetic or sending a skin cancer patient to a tanning bed. It. Does. Not. Matter. what else MJ did or didn't do in his life. Unless he killed himself, and the defense has already admitted he didn't, nothing else he may or may not have done matters. But of course the defense will likely portray him as someone the jury shouldn't have sympathy for, and sadly that's often enough to get criminals off -- just think of the tactics defense attorneys have successfully used when their clients are accused of murdering a prostitute or transgender person and there's loads of evidence. They're gonna use that same bullshit here, counting on people's bigotry.

This is exactly what I fear of.

Would you believe it, Steinberg has a fan base . I can see the number of his clientele going up. He seems like a good cardiologist

Flo6 said:

I've missed a few days of the court proceedings, and worse, a few pages of this thread [ ], but I'm starting to increasingly feel like Dr. Murray is 'a doctor' in nothing but title. Neither in general medicine, nor surgery, nor anything that vaguely resembles the professional practice of medicine/health care.

To me, he looks more like some crook involved in shady deals [for business reasons or other profits/self-interests]. He may have been using the practice of medicine and this Doctor title as a mask for his shady activities and said personal interests.

I can't dig too deep into this because I lack info, but these are my gut feelings... and there are strong.

kibbles said:

co-sign.

i heard some of murray's police interview, and it kind of struck me that he seemed to be implying just what you suggest: mj was an 'inhumane' man with a weird foot fungus who went to his other docs to get drugged up at all hours. these snide comments were intended to engage in subtle character assassination, so i think that's exactly what they're going for, and i hope the prosecutors are prepared for them.

Did anybody read on TMZ that Murray might only be getting house arrest if convicted because of the overcrowding?

babybugz said:

Did anybody read on TMZ that Murray might only be getting house arrest if convicted because of the overcrowding?

See, that's the shit I've been afraid of. I hope this isn't true or doesn't happen this way. Michael deserve better justice than that. (fingers crossed)