mjscarousal said:

RKJCNE said:

You know what, I listen to Adele and Janelle too, I've seen both in concerts. And you know what!? it's ok to like them, and like Rihanna too. And when you like someone I don't, I don't have to resort to condescending names for them. And I don't go on threads about your favorite artists and call you trash. And I don't feel the need to designate what will and won't be a classic.

It's ok too listen to music that was made purely for fun. You can look down on people who listen to that kind of music all you want, but guess what we're just gonna have fun while you sit around and complain.

No one is complaining its the truth. You only look at it as complaining because your fav artist is getting criticized.

I find it disrespectful to compare an artist like Beyonce or Rihanna to Aretha Franklin and imply their generic music will be remembered the same as Arethas years to come.... that is just insane.

People are free to express themselves and give opinion. Their would be no reason for you to criticize Adele or Monae because they dont sell sex, display their bodies, can sing and they make descent music what bad is their to say about that except for that music isnt your cup of tea? They are female singers about their talent and about being creative not chasing after accolades unlike their more popular peers.. thats not bashing thats the TRUTH

You should be open minded and not look at everything like someone is complaining or trying to bash an artist or you. Your very biased with arguements like this. Like do you seriously think their music will be remembered like Arethas will??? you crazy but once again if that is how YOU feel.. so be it, thats YOUR opinion.

No you don't get to state your opinion as fact and mine as biased. That is not how discussion works.

And I'm never the one comparing Rihanna to Aretha. YOU ARE. You insist that Rihanna is awful because she doesn't have a voice like Aretha when the fact is that Rihanna is a pop singer, she doesn't need an Aretha voice.

I AM OPEN MINDED. don't you understand that? I am the one who is showing respect for everyone on that list. You are the one who is attacking people for their music taste. If that isn't closed minded I don't know what is.

RKJCNE said:

mjscarousal said:

No one is complaining its the truth. You only look at it as complaining because your fav artist is getting criticized.

I find it disrespectful to compare an artist like Beyonce or Rihanna to Aretha Franklin and imply their generic music will be remembered the same as Arethas years to come.... that is just insane.

People are free to express themselves and give opinion. Their would be no reason for you to criticize Adele or Monae because they dont sell sex, display their bodies, can sing and they make descent music what bad is their to say about that except for that music isnt your cup of tea? They are female singers about their talent and about being creative not chasing after accolades unlike their more popular peers.. thats not bashing thats the TRUTH

You should be open minded and not look at everything like someone is complaining or trying to bash an artist or you. Your very biased with arguements like this. Like do you seriously think their music will be remembered like Arethas will??? you crazy but once again if that is how YOU feel.. so be it, thats YOUR opinion.

No you don't get to state your opinion as fact and mine as biased. That is not how discussion works.

And I'm never the one comparing Rihanna to Aretha. YOU ARE. You insist that Rihanna is awful because she doesn't have a voice like Aretha when the fact is that Rihanna is a pop singer, she doesn't need an Aretha voice.

I AM OPEN MINDED. don't you understand that? I am the one who is showing respect for everyone on that list. You are the one who is attacking people for their music taste. If that isn't closed minded I don't know what is.

Now your putting words in my mouth.. I never compared their VOICES... this whole time and originally this was just a judgement on their catalogue.. All I simply said was Aretha, Whitney, Mariah, Janet, Madonna are the only ones that have classics out of that list and deserves to be on it the rest dont.

I never attacked you. I just think its silly that you think I am suppose to congradulate everyone on the list. This list really means nothing to me Aretha, Janet etc on it or not because the catalogue determines classic music not whether it goes to number one or which you seem to not understand. I never attacked just responded to you with a different perspective. I am showing respect to everyone on that list. I have not personally or ignorantly bashed them. I am just maturely critiquely their MUSIC catalogue NEXT to artists who have exactly made classic material UNLIKE some folks here who go on rants on artists personal life which I have not done here.

But like I said earlier, obviously there is no trying to get you to see a different perspective because.. one, you dont want (thats fine dont have to) two, you believe everyone should all hold hands and like everything on that list because that is showing respect because that is what showing respect means to you when that is not a good example of respect. . if you like her music... I DONT CARE .. play her music all day long...

But thats not going to stop me from saying my opinion neither.... No your not open minded to MY OPINION because you like those artists that I think shouldnt be on the list lol that IS being closed.

A more mature open minded responce would have been while I like Rihannas music, I dont think her MUSIC is classic material next to an artist like Whitney or Aretha.

There is alot of music I like dont necessarily mean its classic or it will be.

You have your opinion AND I have mine and I will just leave it at that.

[Edited 9/19/11 7:24am]

This is expected. She's a singles artist.

mjscarousal said:

Some of these comments are very ridiculous and its exactly sad how people categorize other peoples opinion and perspective.

So now all of a sudden your a music snob if you dont like popular music??? Its not about popular or non popular.... I agree every music has its place. There is fun music, classic music, music that is mind stimulating, etc..

Is that a reference to my post earlier? Nope, some of us displayed bewilderment earlier in this thread, me included, if you remember.

By all means, critique music after all thats why some of us are here, I welcome it, but when you come off basing an opinion upon people for listening to "pop" music, thats when the snobbery kicks in, and its exactly the same thing you professed to have an issue with; categorizing people's opinion. As fas as challenging your views, what exactly is the challenge you're looking for when you stop making it about music by attacking people god forbids if they choose to listen to "pop" music? A quarel?

You wanna critique music, but then you choose to get personal with folks and at that points it ceases being about music and starts being about "which one of us have the stankier taste, and which ones of us have the superior taste?", petty bullshit that goes nowhere.

Harlepolis said:

mjscarousal said:

Some of these comments are very ridiculous and its exactly sad how people categorize other peoples opinion and perspective.

So now all of a sudden your a music snob if you dont like popular music??? Its not about popular or non popular.... I agree every music has its place. There is fun music, classic music, music that is mind stimulating, etc..

Is that a reference to my post earlier? Nope, some of us displayed bewilderment earlier in this thread, me included, if you remember.

By all means, critique music after all thats why some of us are here, I welcome it, but when you come off basing an opinion upon people for listening to "pop" music, thats when the snobbery kicks in, and its exactly the same thing you professed to have an issue with; categorizing people's opinion. As fas as challenging your views, what exactly is the challenge you're looking for when you stop making it about music by attacking people god forbids if they choose to listen to "pop" music? A quarel?

You wanna critique music, but then you choose to get personal with folks and at that points it ceases being about music and starts being about "which one of us have the stankier taste, and which ones of us have the superior taste?", petty bullshit that goes nowhere.

No its not a reference just a responce to some of the posts I looked over in here lol. Well I wasnt trying to make this about pop music because I listen to pop music my favorite artist is the King of Pop LOL Which is why I dont understand why the direction is changing to scolding posters who bash pop music or watever when this is specifically on the topic at hand

I have no issues with that. I just simply stated and I will again for the hundreth time that those 5 artists have a catalogue of classics unlike the more current ones who are in the mist of them on that list. Then went on to say its easy for them to make a hit today because the standards are low. If someone responds to me that they think their music will last forever than I will respond by saying thats bullshit lol

Thats just my opinion and I dont apologize for it. If someone wants to listen to those current artists I dont care because I dont have to and everyone has their own taste but if you engage in a discussion with me and its relates to them and comparision to artists who have good catalogues than I will express my opinion.

So... ... Madonna is the Queen of Pop, right? Right?

mjscarousal said:

Harlepolis said:

Is that a reference to my post earlier? Nope, some of us displayed bewilderment earlier in this thread, me included, if you remember.

By all means, critique music after all thats why some of us are here, I welcome it, but when you come off basing an opinion upon people for listening to "pop" music, thats when the snobbery kicks in, and its exactly the same thing you professed to have an issue with; categorizing people's opinion. As fas as challenging your views, what exactly is the challenge you're looking for when you stop making it about music by attacking people god forbids if they choose to listen to "pop" music? A quarel?

You wanna critique music, but then you choose to get personal with folks and at that points it ceases being about music and starts being about "which one of us have the stankier taste, and which ones of us have the superior taste?", petty bullshit that goes nowhere.

No its not a reference just a responce to some of the posts I looked over in here lol. Well I wasnt trying to make this about pop music because I listen to pop music my favorite artist is the King of Pop LOL Which is why I dont understand why the direction is changing to scolding posters who bash pop music or watever when this is specifically on the topic at hand

I have no issues with that. I just simply stated and I will again for the hundreth time that those 5 artists have a catalogue of classics unlike the more current ones who are in the mist of them on that list. Then went on to say its easy for them to make a hit today because the standards are low. If someone responds to me that they think their music will last forever than I will respond by saying thats bullshit lol

Thats just my opinion and I dont apologize for it. If someone wants to listen to those current artists I dont care because I dont have to and everyone has their own taste but if you engage in a discussion with me and its relates to them and comparision to artists who have good catalogues than I will express my opinion.

And hopefully someday you'll learn how to express your opinion without calling people trashy.

good luck with that!

mjscarousal said:

Harlepolis said:

Is that a reference to my post earlier? Nope, some of us displayed bewilderment earlier in this thread, me included, if you remember.

By all means, critique music after all thats why some of us are here, I welcome it, but when you come off basing an opinion upon people for listening to "pop" music, thats when the snobbery kicks in, and its exactly the same thing you professed to have an issue with; categorizing people's opinion. As fas as challenging your views, what exactly is the challenge you're looking for when you stop making it about music by attacking people god forbids if they choose to listen to "pop" music? A quarel?

You wanna critique music, but then you choose to get personal with folks and at that points it ceases being about music and starts being about "which one of us have the stankier taste, and which ones of us have the superior taste?", petty bullshit that goes nowhere.

No its not a reference just a responce to some of the posts I looked over in here lol. Well I wasnt trying to make this about pop music because I listen to pop music my favorite artist is the King of Pop LOL Which is why I dont understand why the direction is changing to scolding posters who bash pop music or watever when this is specifically on the topic at hand

I have no issues with that. I just simply stated and I will again for the hundreth time that those 5 artists have a catalogue of classics unlike the more current ones who are in the mist of them on that list. Then went on to say its easy for them to make a hit today because the standards are low. If someone responds to me that they think their music will last forever than I will respond by saying thats bullshit lol

Thats just my opinion and I dont apologize for it. If someone wants to listen to those current artists I dont care because I dont have to and everyone has their own taste but if you engage in a discussion with me and its relates to them and comparision to artists who have good catalogues than I will express my opinion.

Cool

RKJCNE said:

mjscarousal said:

No its not a reference just a responce to some of the posts I looked over in here lol. Well I wasnt trying to make this about pop music because I listen to pop music my favorite artist is the King of Pop LOL Which is why I dont understand why the direction is changing to scolding posters who bash pop music or watever when this is specifically on the topic at hand

I have no issues with that. I just simply stated and I will again for the hundreth time that those 5 artists have a catalogue of classics unlike the more current ones who are in the mist of them on that list. Then went on to say its easy for them to make a hit today because the standards are low. If someone responds to me that they think their music will last forever than I will respond by saying thats bullshit lol

Thats just my opinion and I dont apologize for it. If someone wants to listen to those current artists I dont care because I dont have to and everyone has their own taste but if you engage in a discussion with me and its relates to them and comparision to artists who have good catalogues than I will express my opinion.

And hopefully someday you'll learn how to express your opinion without calling people trashy.

good luck with that!

Please quote me where I called YOU trashy????

Hopefully you will learn that everyone has different opinions and have a right to express that. You expressed yours and I respect it while I disagree with it.

smoothcriminal12 said:

This is expected. She's a singles artist.

Isn't she a singles artist because she her albums don't sell?

Unholyalliance said:

smoothcriminal12 said:

This is expected. She's a singles artist.

Isn't she a singles artist because she her albums don't sell?

Yep.

mjscarousal said:

Please quote me where I called YOU trashy????

You should be open minded and not look at everything like someone is complaining or trying to bash an artist or you. Your very biased with arguements like this. Like do you seriously think their music will be remembered like Arethas will??? you crazy but once again if that is how YOU feel.. so be it, thats YOUR opinion.

RKJCNE said:

mjscarousal said:

Please quote me where I called YOU trashy????

You should be open minded and not look at everything like someone is complaining or trying to bash an artist or you. Your very biased with arguements like this. Like do you seriously think their music will be remembered like Arethas will??? you crazy but once again if that is how YOU feel.. so be it, thats YOUR opinion.

No signs of calling you trashy... thanks you just proved my point.

I was talking about the music..

mjscarousal said:

RKJCNE said:

No signs of calling you trashy... thanks you just proved my point.

I was talking about the music..

Oh please you implied plenty. Give it up! Everybody is calling you out for it. And I am sure as hell done responding to your attacks and crazy rants on this thread.

BYE.

smoothcriminal12 said:

This is expected. She's a singles artist.

Your right. Alot of of todays female artist really dont make good albums. I also can't name any Rihanna songs because I don't listen to the radio

Marlena58 said:

Your right. Alot of of todays female artist really dont make good albums. I also can't name any Rihanna songs because I don't listen to the radio

Oh damn are you really going to go there? Like, all the female artists that are out there and you've heard enough of their albums to claim that this phenomenon plagues 'a lot' of them?

Marlena58 said:

smoothcriminal12 said:

This is expected. She's a singles artist.

Your right. Alot of of todays female artist really dont make good albums. I also can't name any Rihanna songs because I don't listen to the radio

This is generalization at its finest. Rihanna and the ilk don't represent all female artists.

Timmy84 said:

Marlena58 said:

Your right. Alot of of todays female artist really dont make good albums. I also can't name any Rihanna songs because I don't listen to the radio

This is generalization at its finest. Rihanna and the ilk don't represent all female artists.

It is a generalization.. but a slightly accurate one.

I've noticed lately that the material for female pop singers, tends to be worse than say a male pop singer.

And I think it's about management and song choosing.

Managers and handlers manage women differently and tend to choose songs, to stimulate social trends that tend to trigger success...

They'll say they're looking for the "madonna" treatment, or something of that sort.

Whereas Males tend to have a little bit more creative control,and handlers loosen the grip on them.

Why?

My theory is Sex Appeal.

Men don't really need that much sex appeal, so it doesn't hinder their creativity.

They don't have to worry about that.

A woman has to constantly have sex appeal in mind, cause a lack thereof in this society will seriously hinder them.

It's a vile double standard...

And I think females suffer from it...

HermesReborn said:

Timmy84 said:

This is generalization at its finest. Rihanna and the ilk don't represent all female artists.

It is a generalization.. but a slightly accurate one.

I've noticed lately that the material for female pop singers, tends to be worse than say a male pop singer.

And I think it's about management and song choosing.

Managers and handlers manage women differently and tend to choose songs, to stimulate social trends that tend to trigger success...

They'll say they're looking for the "madonna" treatment, or something of that sort.

Whereas Males tend to have a little bit more creative control,and handlers loosen the grip on them.

Why?

My theory is Sex Appeal.

Men don't really need that much sex appeal, so it doesn't hinder their creativity.

They don't have to worry about that.

A woman has to constantly have sex appeal in mind, cause a lack thereof in this society will seriously hinder them.

It's a vile double standard...

And I think females suffer from it...

That is true but not all female artists fall into those type of gullible situations.

Timmy84 said:

HermesReborn said:

It is a generalization.. but a slightly accurate one.

I've noticed lately that the material for female pop singers, tends to be worse than say a male pop singer.

And I think it's about management and song choosing.

Managers and handlers manage women differently and tend to choose songs, to stimulate social trends that tend to trigger success...

They'll say they're looking for the "madonna" treatment, or something of that sort.

Whereas Males tend to have a little bit more creative control,and handlers loosen the grip on them.

Why?

My theory is Sex Appeal.

Men don't really need that much sex appeal, so it doesn't hinder their creativity.

They don't have to worry about that.

A woman has to constantly have sex appeal in mind, cause a lack thereof in this society will seriously hinder them.

It's a vile double standard...

And I think females suffer from it...

That is true but not all female artists fall into those type of gullible situations.

Mp Doubt,

But I think it's safe to say that it's in the majority.

Adele, is the exception that proves the rule.

You can't deny that before her, the industry was displaying a sick trend in generating Barbie Doll, pop singers to sing atrocious songs.

Kesha, Pussycat Dolls, Rhianna, Katy Perry, Fergie

You can go on and on.

And there are only handful of females, who have decent material.

And have you noticed that nearly ALL female artist rely on sex to propel their music.

Men don't have to do this...

i.

HermesReborn said:

Timmy84 said:

That is true but not all female artists fall into those type of gullible situations.

Mp Doubt,

But I think it's safe to say that it's in the majority.

Adele, is the exception that proves the rule.

You can't deny that before her, the industry was displaying a sick trend in generating Barbie Doll, pop singers to sing atrocious songs.

Kesha, Pussycat Dolls, Rhianna, Katy Perry, Fergie

You can go on and on.

And there are only handful of females, who have decent material.

And have you noticed that nearly ALL female artist rely on sex to propel their music.

Men don't have to do this...

i.

Thing is the entertainment industry has done that forever so it's not so much a revelation but gladly there are exceptions to the rule.

Timmy84 said:

HermesReborn said:

Mp Doubt,

But I think it's safe to say that it's in the majority.

Adele, is the exception that proves the rule.

You can't deny that before her, the industry was displaying a sick trend in generating Barbie Doll, pop singers to sing atrocious songs.

Kesha, Pussycat Dolls, Rhianna, Katy Perry, Fergie

You can go on and on.

And there are only handful of females, who have decent material.

And have you noticed that nearly ALL female artist rely on sex to propel their music.

Men don't have to do this...

i.

Thing is the entertainment industry has done that forever so it's not so much a revelation but gladly there are exceptions to the rule.

It's been doing it since the late 70s, with Disco. But still the song quality was pretty good.

It increased a bit in the 80's. Song quality good, little more swill added.

Madonna came, and it increased a bit more...

Song quality diminished more, with sex appeal, being pumped in to compensate.

Went full fledge in the 90's

A lot more sexually charged songs, but still the song writing and composition was ok.

And 00 and internet downloading came.

Song quality just dropped...

It was a steady decline up until 00's

When record companies stopped investing in song writers and production.

And started investing in sex appeal.

It's not about MUSIC anymore...

It's about Branding and Sex...

Art suffers while Lust and Greed win...

I've said enough now...

I'll sit in the corner... listening to my Joni Mitchell records...

^ They were doing it in the '60s too. But more subtle that it didn't seem like it was purposely doing it to put women in a position where they were looked on as nothing but either sex kittens or women who were trying to all please men in whatever way they promoted them.

Timmy84 said:

^ They were doing it in the '60s too. But more subtle that it didn't seem like it was purposely doing it to put women in a position where they were looked on as nothing but either sex kittens or women who were trying to all please men in whatever way they promoted them.

I'll agree to disagree on that...

It was a chauvinistic time. The women's feminism, was just beginning.

However despite that, You didn't need to look a certain way to be famous.

You just needed talent.

A record company would invest on someone's voice first, and song writing skill, before their looks.

But it is Ironic that 50 years after feminism, the recording industry has only gotten More chauvinistic and superficial...

Interesting...

HermesReborn said:

Timmy84 said:

^ They were doing it in the '60s too. But more subtle that it didn't seem like it was purposely doing it to put women in a position where they were looked on as nothing but either sex kittens or women who were trying to all please men in whatever way they promoted them.

I'll agree to disagree on that...

It was a chauvinistic time. The women's feminism, was just beginning.

However despite that, You didn't need to look a certain way to be famous.

You just needed talent.

A record company would invest on someone's voice first, and song writing skill, before their looks.

But it is Ironic that 50 years after feminism, the recording industry has only gotten More chauvinistic and superficial...

Interesting...

It ain't ironic, that's just reality. People still gotta fight in the struggle. You don't stop just because things are "better" now. And that's for real.

Timmy84 said:

HermesReborn said:

Mp Doubt,

But I think it's safe to say that it's in the majority.

Adele, is the exception that proves the rule.

You can't deny that before her, the industry was displaying a sick trend in generating Barbie Doll, pop singers to sing atrocious songs.

Kesha, Pussycat Dolls, Rhianna, Katy Perry, Fergie

You can go on and on.

And there are only handful of females, who have decent material.

And have you noticed that nearly ALL female artist rely on sex to propel their music.

Men don't have to do this...

i.

Thing is the entertainment industry has done that forever so it's not so much a revelation but gladly there are exceptions to the rule.

Thats what alot of people say but todays era of music is very differnt than how it was. Yes sex appeal was a factor but today it seems to be the driving factor in the whole marketing package of a female singer and second comes the music third comes the exactly talent. It should not be that way. Past singers/legends such as Dorothy Dandrige, Tina Turner, The Supremes, Donna Summer had sex appeal but that wasnt the MAIN factor in why they were successful. They had great hits, good music and were good performers. The excuse that this has been going on for ages is very tired. Whats going on with pop female singers today is an outrage and goes beyond music alone.

Everything's different now, doesn't mean that it was totally the opposite of what's going on now. Some things change, some stay the same.

Right

But clearly their is a very clear difference in todays generation and just because some of those same elements are being done doesnt mean its the EXACT same way like how it was during the 60's 70's. I dont see how anyone can look at those past decades and then look at todays and say that nothing has change.

The whole attractive and mass appeal has always been a given for male or female but its a completely different ball game today and that has to do because the entire music industry has change as well as entertainment... once again.. it goes beyond sex appeal.