Isn't it great that we can have these vigorous debates? We should be happy we have these freedoms. As Prince sang "Be glad that you are free, there's many a man who's not. Be glad for what you get and baby what you got"

mjscarousal said:

You must be talking out loud about your damn self because you have been raving foolishly since the first page of this thread.

Pure entertainment

"I'm an artist and my aim is to please"

whatsgoingon said:

TheFreakerFantastic said:

^ I'm not saying it was right just that it is incorrect to think it is just the Brits to blame, the yanks were at it too..

True, but there is not that kind of pretence in America that there is hardly any rascism and that is what Kelis is saying. What she has said is obvious to most black people who actually live or have lived in the UK: the rascism in the UK is swept under the rug.

Which in allot of ways, makes it MUCH worse.

^ Hard to prove and I wouldn't take Kelis's word for it to generalise a whole country.....interesting how much press and media attention this will get...SALES WILL GO UP

TheFreakerFantastic said:

Militant said:

As an ethnic minority in England living in the inner-city..... if you don't think there's SERIOUS race issues in this country you have no fucking idea.

And yes, the riots were race related. A black man in London was shot dead by police officers for no reason and that's what triggered it. This is not the first time, there have been dozens of such cases, and dozens of black deaths from police brutality, both in jail and on the streets. There's so much racial profiling it's unreal and the conservative government is making things a LOT worse.

There is also a lot of inter-racial problems, ie Asian communities VS Black communities..... Three Asian guys were murdered by a black guy at the peak of the riots because they were trying to defend their businesses from the looters.

I have lived in this country most of my life, was born and raised here, and things have NEVER been worse than they are right now in regards to race. So this Kelis story doesn't surprise me at all.

Yes, but in terms of the world it is not that bad here. I hate it when people who have the benefits of living here try to do it down. And to be fair inter-racial problems (ie asians fighting blacks) is not the fault of our country.

[Edited 9/14/11 14:54pm]

You sound like a over zealous fan. The kind who sticks behind their favorite celebrity, no matter what their faults are. Just because one has the benefit of living in a country, does not exempt THAT country from having it's share of issues.

^ Quite the opposite, i don't think that much of Kelis, although i did like the 'milkshake' song.

I agree it's not perfect but no more worse than any other country. I only get mad when people criticise a country with only a passing knowledge of it and people seem to take it as truth based on 1 alleged incident which may have been more to do with her alleged queue jumping than skin colour...it could also have been intended as a joke (in poor taste admittedly).

If she'd lived in the gritty suburbs of London for a few months and made that comment it would be fine...but passing through the airport is NOT really representative.

[Edited 9/14/11 15:35pm]

SCNDLS said:

In this situation, your experience as a non-minority means squat since YOU would never experience this. So yeah, keep it moving

Yes, exactly.

Again, I'll re-iterate - the racism (institutionalized and otherwise) in the UK is DISGUSTING.

Just TWO years ago, my cousin (born and raised here, Indian descent) was literally told "get out, we don't serve your kind in here" in a shop, when he took his White English wife on a trip to a nearby seaside town.

Even the BBC - a liberal media organisation - has next to NO black people working there (the ex-head of the organisation even said so himself), and the ones that do are typically in the "urban radio" portion etc. There's a few more Asians but still not very many. Every corporation is the same story. My ex-wife worked for the commission that regulates the gambling industry on behalf of the government - same story there.

Let's not even get into the countless "stop and searches" I and my minority friends have been subject to... or the time the police banged on my door at 6AM in the freakin morning and subsequently arrested me accusing me of being a gang member. Which I am not.

I also echo the comment that it'll be a LONG time before this country has a black leader. The likes of Obama would NEVER get a look in, here. No way. The current PM (also a racist cunt as I can personally attest to) is a descendent of royalty himself. It's always the same story here.

Again, I can personally attest to much worse things than what Kelis has mentioned, so it's not surprising. If you aren't a minority who has spent most of their life in this country as I have, you can not comment authentically on what does or does not happen here.

TheFreakerFantastic said:

^ Quite the opposite, i don't think that much of Kelis, although i did like the 'milkshake' song.

I agree it's not perfect but no more worse than any other country. I only get mad when people criticise a country with only a passing knowledge of it and people seem to take it as truth based on 1 alleged incident which may have been more to do with her alleged queue jumping than skin colour...it could also have been intended as a joke (in poor taste admittedly).

If she'd lived in the gritty suburbs of London for a few months and made that comment it would be fine...but passing through the airport is NOT really representative.

[Edited 9/14/11 15:35pm]

I'm not talking about you being a fan of Kelis, I am was talking about you being a fan of the UK. I spent five years in the UK DJ'ing in my younger days, in Brixton and in London and I must say, that while the majority of the citizens there are nice, you do have some people there who are not afraid to share their racists views. To say that it does not exist there, is like look at the country, through rose colored glasses. I think what makes it bad, is the fact that it is mostly swept under the rug. Kinda like the lyrics to the O'Jay's tune, "Backstabbers", "They smile in your face, all the time they wanna take your place"...

^ Militant it would be far worse if you were in those asian countries...don't bite the hand that feeds u.

I have some experience of the Beeb and i saw ethnic minorities getting undue promotion left right and centre. Positive discrimination in anything but, its racism in reverse.

shorttrini said:

TheFreakerFantastic said:

^ Quite the opposite, i don't think that much of Kelis, although i did like the 'milkshake' song.

I agree it's not perfect but no more worse than any other country. I only get mad when people criticise a country with only a passing knowledge of it and people seem to take it as truth based on 1 alleged incident which may have been more to do with her alleged queue jumping than skin colour...it could also have been intended as a joke (in poor taste admittedly).

If she'd lived in the gritty suburbs of London for a few months and made that comment it would be fine...but passing through the airport is NOT really representative.

[Edited 9/14/11 15:35pm]

I'm not talking about you being a fan of Kelis, I am was talking about you being a fan of the UK. I spent five years in the UK DJ'ing in my younger days, in Brixton and in London and I must say, that while the majority of the citizens there are nice, you do have some people there who are not afraid to share their racists views. To say that it does not exist there, is like look at the country, through rose colored glasses. I think what makes it bad, is the fact that it is mostly swept under the rug. Kinda like the lyrics to the O'Jay's tune, "Backstabbers", "They smile in your face, all the time they wanna take your place"...

Well you seemed to manage ok for 5 years so can't be that bad..

TheFreakerFantastic said:

^ Militant it would be far worse if you were in those asian countries...don't bite the hand that feeds u.

I have some experience of the Beeb and i saw ethnic minorities getting undue promotion left right and centre. Positive discrimination in anything but, its racism in reverse.

sorry but you have NO idea none. It's no wonder nobody in this thread is taking seriously. I'm a professional touring musician and I've spent a great deal of time in MANY countries. Stop defending the indefensible, this country is racist as fuck on multiple levels.

You have some experience of the Beeb? Obviously not, from your comment. I worked there for over a year. Ethnic minorities getting undue promotions? Racism in reverse??? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA that's the most ridiculous thing I have heard in ages.

As has been said - stop while you're behind. You have NO idea and frankly by attempting to downplay the problem you are PART of the problem. Racism in this country needs to be urgently addressed, but with a PM like Cameron who himself is racist, it ain't happening any time soon.

^ Yes Militant and you are a professional EMO jumped up arse....even the Prince experts on here seem to think so...

Consider booking that flight....u'll soon appreciate what u had...

[Edited 9/14/11 15:54pm]

Time to lock....this is getting nowhere..

TheFreakerFantastic said:

shorttrini said:

I'm not talking about you being a fan of Kelis, I am was talking about you being a fan of the UK. I spent five years in the UK DJ'ing in my younger days, in Brixton and in London and I must say, that while the majority of the citizens there are nice, you do have some people there who are not afraid to share their racists views. To say that it does not exist there, is like look at the country, through rose colored glasses. I think what makes it bad, is the fact that it is mostly swept under the rug. Kinda like the lyrics to the O'Jay's tune, "Backstabbers", "They smile in your face, all the time they wanna take your place"...

Well you seemed to manage ok for 5 years so can't be that bad..

I think I just dealth with it. I was there to do a job, get money and that's it. But, that does not mean that it did not exist. To say that it does not exist or that another race is just as bad, does nothing to solve the problem and quiet frankly, it's just people "passing the buck". My place of birth, Trinidad has it's share of racism too, but that does not mean that it is a bad country or that I am so in love with it, that I refuse to admit that it has issues. It does, and they seem to be getting worst daily.

TheFreakerFantastic said:

The race issues in London are small fry compared to parts of LA or some Southern states, and if anyone is oppressed it is the whites!!

Quit while you're ahead.

TheFreakerFantastic said:

Time to lock....this is getting nowhere..

Time to lock you. You aren't going nowhere fast.

TheFreakerFantastic said:

The race issues in London are small fry compared to parts of LA or some Southern states, and if anyone is oppressed it is the whites!!

Whites are oppressed? How so? Are you so worried that Whites in the US are headed toward minority status in 30 years ? Well, guess what, they are.

Dsoul said:

SoulAlive said:

what's going on in here?! this thread has taken an ugly turn.

Blaqueknight took it straight into the gutter in the first post of all with his "cunta" woman-hating misogyny. To far less criticism than Freakerfantastic's confused race politics, might I add.

Blame it on the Blaque guy, eh?

Look, Kelis said it herself - she's no saint. I happen to think that from her past actions, she comes off as a manipulative golddigger. My comment wasn't against all women but it was directed towards Kelis. That aside, I really don't think she "deserves" to be called any racial slur.

At the same time, most black people with a little life experince under their belt have experienced this sort of thing at some point. I was just saying that she could go the route of a thick-skinned person and "gwone brush her shoulders off" and not let it mess with her. From the tone of things, it seems like she probably already gave dude an earfull, so from this point, its moveon.org.

As to the riots, I am terribly mistaken. I was under the impression that people were upset over police brutality. Apparently, that sort of thing does not happen over in jolly olde England. My bad. I guess everyone there is a good Catholic and never does anything wrong. By the way, I wonder where Mark Duggan is hiding? He's still alive, right?

I agree with the general gist of your post - but the following statement you made simply isn't true. There is a large number of non-white people working at the BBC.

Militant said:

Even the BBC - a liberal media organisation - has next to NO black people working there (the ex-head of the organisation even said so himself), and the ones that do are typically in the "urban radio" portion etc.

TheFreakerFantastic said:

The race issues in London are small fry compared to parts of LA or some Southern states, and if anyone is oppressed it is the whites!!

Are you trying to be ironic?

Identity said:

TheFreakerFantastic said:

The race issues in London are small fry compared to parts of LA or some Southern states, and if anyone is oppressed it is the whites!!

Whites are oppressed? How so? Are you so worried that Whites in the US are headed toward minority status in 30 years ? Well, guess what, they are.

OMG the most annoying thing in the world to me is this on the rise "woe is me the privaleged white man" complex. I don't know is Fantastic is being sarcastic, but that way of thought is disgusting to me.

I wish she would've had some of those big bodyguards that some celebs keep around to kick the crap out of people.

Wow. I can imagine just how she felt hearing such a racist slur directed at her. It is a shame that in 2011, that such ignorance still exists. If the guy was mad because she may have jumped the line, that still is no reason to result to racist slurs.

Also, that employee should have been fired, if not already for agreeing, in public, with the nasty remarks from that guy. That employee represents the company he works for, and by agreeing with that guy who made those ignorant racist slurs to Kelis, tells a lot about the both of those individuals, and their ignorant views of those they see 'different' from them. If they weren't already thinking like that of her or people that look like her, that comment would not have been made. Such a shame and unacceptable in 2011, that this type of behavior is still being 'publically' displayed by ignorance.

[Edited 9/14/11 20:04pm]

This thread got heated really quick

ForgottenPassword said:

I agree with the general gist of your post - but the following statement you made simply isn't true. There is a large number of non-white people working at the BBC.

Militant said:

Even the BBC - a liberal media organisation - has next to NO black people working there (the ex-head of the organisation even said so himself), and the ones that do are typically in the "urban radio" portion etc.

That was my experience from working there for over a year. Have you worked there? The amount of black people you see working at the BBC is simply not representative of the population. Arguably it is in "front-facing" public roles, which is about 1% of the organisation. Ever spent time in the news desks, looked at the researchers? Ever spent time in the engineering sections? Ever spent time in any of the radio or TV studios and looked at the broadcast journalists? When I first began working there, we were sent on a three day course which was mandatory for ALL new employees in any position. Just a coincidence that it was 95%+ white on that course? What, they only hired white people that particular month?

Anyway, here's what Greg Dyke (one of the best Director General's the BBC has ever had, much better than the current one Mark Thompson) said, verbatim:

In his interview, broadcast on BBC Radio Scotland last night, Greg Dyke did not say the corporation was racist but acknowledged that, as with the Metropolitan Police, it had a problem with race relations.

He admitted the BBC management was more than 98 per cent white and that it was unable to retain staff from ethnic minorities. "I think the BBC is hideously white ... a predominantly white organisation. Quite a lot of people from different ethnic backgrounds that we do attract to the BBC leave. Maybe they don't feel welcome.

"I had a management Christmas lunch and as I looked around I thought, 'we've got a real problem here'. There were 80-odd people there and only one person who wasn't white."

A spokeswoman for the Commission for Racial Equality said Mr Dyke had made similar statements before but welcomed his latest remarks.

"I welcome his acknowledgement that there's a problem and that he's trying to do something about it."

This is one of those times where if you haven't worked there, you're likely seeing a different side of the BBC to those that do. The "public-facing" side is laughably different to the rest of the organisation. But because it's such a small part of it but effects how everybody "sees" it, it's easy to portray themselves differently to how things actually are.

Also, LOL at "professional EMO jumped up arse", that's almost sig-worthy! Guess the truth can make people angry!

[Edited 9/15/11 2:47am]

SoulAlive said:

what's going on in here?! this thread has taken an ugly turn.

It sure has.