Glindathegood said:

SoulAlive said:

I guess I'm over the electronica/Europop thing.She's done it too many times and nowadays,everyone else is doing it too.That's why I'm not too excited about this project,based on the rumors we have heard so far.I hope that the album has more to offer than just a bunch of Eurodisco dance tracks.And who knows,maybe she will still work with Pharrell after all

Electronica is such a wide catergory though. It's anything with programmed computerized beats. It doesn't have to be the cheesy Eurodisco type of stuff. I wouldn't call either Music or Ray of Light Eurodisco. There's a lot of different styles in electronica that she could explore just like there are many different styles of rock. She's a trained dancer and loves dancing and clubs. I just think it's more natural for her to do some kind of dance influenced stuff then try to be a rocker or R&B singer.

I hear what you're saying and I'm gonna take a wait and see approach I just don't wanna hear stuff that sounds like "Celebration".That kinda sound is redundant.I'm sure she'll surprise us.

Glindathegood said:

SoulAlive said:

I guess I'm over the electronica/Europop thing.She's done it too many times and nowadays,everyone else is doing it too.That's why I'm not too excited about this project,based on the rumors we have heard so far.I hope that the album has more to offer than just a bunch of Eurodisco dance tracks.And who knows,maybe she will still work with Pharrell after all

Electronica is such a wide catergory though. It's anything with programmed computerized beats. It doesn't have to be the cheesy Eurodisco type of stuff. I wouldn't call either Music or Ray of Light Eurodisco. There's a lot of different styles in electronica that she could explore just like there are many different styles of rock. She's a trained dancer and loves dancing and clubs. I just think it's more natural for her to do some kind of dance influenced stuff then try to be a rocker or R&B singer.

Yeah but its more than that though.

Sticking with the electronic form is pandering to her base.

Which are gays who love to dance. (no offense guys, u know I love ya )

I mean theres nothing wrong with pandering to your base.

Rolling Stones have done it for decades.

But it's also the reason their creative reservoir dried up years ago.

But c'mon I'm tired of the same old mess.

It's formulaic and lacking of any creativity.

Pop is a huge genre.

do something else.

Electronica isn't the only thing you can dance to.

HermesReborn said:

Yeah but its more than that though.

Sticking with the electronic form is pandering to her base.

Which are gays who love to dance. (no offense guys, u know I love ya )

I mean theres nothing wrong with pandering to your base.

Rolling Stones have done it for decades.

But it's also the reason their creative reservoir dried up years ago.

But c'mon I'm tired of the same old mess.

It's formulaic and lacking of any creativity.

Pop is a huge genre.

do something else.

Electronica isn't the only thing you can dance to.

I don't think it's true that only gay people like electronic music. Maybe here in the US electronic music is associated with the gay community, but electronic music is a broad genre in Europe that appeals to people of all sexual orientations. But even here in straight clubs, electronic music like house is played for people to dance to.

Why is it if someone makes a rock record, no one criticizes them for pandering to the straight community? Or if you make a hip hop record, no one criticizes you for pandering to the black community?

Why is electronic music seen as lacking in creativity? It seems to me any kind of music whether with live instruments or electronic can either be formulaic or creative depending on the song and the effort you put into it. Is a band like Nikelback which uses live instruments automatically more creative than an electronic act?

But I've noticed that stereotype even on Madonna forums. There's this idea that electronic music is always bad and music with live instruments is always good and creative, which is not true at all. It's the song that matters.

Not all of Madonna's fans are gay. She has many straight female fans and also believe it or not straight male fans. But a lot of her fans do enjoy dance music. So I think if she gets too far away from that the majority of her fans wouldn't like it

But I do think if she does electronic music, she should still keep it pop. I love electro pop, but I"m not too crazy about the harder electronic techno type of music that's it really hard on the beats with just the same sound pounding over and over again with no melody. I want to hear electronic songs, not club remixes. But I think in the past when she has done electronica she has maintained her pop sensibility so I don't see why she wouldn't do that again.

What would be really cool is if she put together a band of real musicians and recorded the entire album with them....you know,go for a more 'organic' sound,as opposed to a cold electronica sound.That's what I really miss from her music.

VoicesCarry said:

She needs to come hard this time. Hard Candy was a complete and utter disaster musically - the first time it sounded as if she just phoned up the producers of the moment and asked them to work on her album. You listen to Ray of Light and Hard Candy back to back and it's apparent just how drastically the quality of her output declined. Other girls like Robyn, Roisin Murphy and Sia are putting her to shame so she has no excuse.

Listen to American Life to Confessions and you see how they improved..I dont think that's a fair assesment.

SoulAlive said:

What would be really cool is if she put together a band of real musicians and recorded the entire album with them....you know,go for a more 'organic' sound,as opposed to a cold electronica sound.That's what I really miss from her music.

I think that would be cool too. I do think a lot of the human feeling has been lost from music with all the electronics these days. I enjoy some electro-pop but it shouldn't be the only kind of music out there. I don't think it would work for her to do a heavy rock type of album, but if she could find a way to still do pop music that was danceable but with live instruments it would be great.

Glindathegood said:

HermesReborn said:

Yeah but its more than that though.

Sticking with the electronic form is pandering to her base.

Which are gays who love to dance. (no offense guys, u know I love ya )

I mean theres nothing wrong with pandering to your base.

Rolling Stones have done it for decades.

But it's also the reason their creative reservoir dried up years ago.

But c'mon I'm tired of the same old mess.

It's formulaic and lacking of any creativity.

Pop is a huge genre.

do something else.

Electronica isn't the only thing you can dance to.

I don't think it's true that only gay people like electronic music. Maybe here in the US electronic music is associated with the gay community, but electronic music is a broad genre in Europe that appeals to people of all sexual orientations. But even here in straight clubs, electronic music like house is played for people to dance to.

Why is it if someone makes a rock record, no one criticizes them for pandering to the straight community? Or if you make a hip hop record, no one criticizes you for pandering to the black community?

Why is electronic music seen as lacking in creativity? It seems to me any kind of music whether with live instruments or electronic can either be formulaic or creative depending on the song and the effort you put into it. Is a band like Nikelback which uses live instruments automatically more creative than an electronic act?

But I've noticed that stereotype even on Madonna forums. There's this idea that electronic music is always bad and music with live instruments is always good and creative, which is not true at all. It's the song that matters.

Not all of Madonna's fans are gay. She has many straight female fans and also believe it or not straight male fans. But a lot of her fans do enjoy dance music. So I think if she gets too far away from that the majority of her fans wouldn't like it

Stereotypes is how the world works...

While Electronika can be associated with all walks of life

its associated with the gay community cause they took it and ran with it.

Its associated with the gay and drug culture.

I've worked with some very prominent trance DJ's,

who are straight themselves and they crudely say they're making music for "fags and ravers"

Eurotrash Music.

Why do they work in a style of music they so obviously disrespect?

2 reasons.

The music is easy to make and easy to sell.

Because of the club scene, electronika is on e of the few genres that didn't suffer from downloading.

You can go to any gay club anywhere, and I'll say 100% of time they have some form of electronika.

they sure as hell aint dancing to Bob Seger

HermesReborn said:

Stereotypes is how the world works...

While Electronika can be associated with all walks of life

its associated with the gay community cause they took it and ran with it.

Its associated with the gay and drug culture.

I've worked with some very prominent trance DJ's,

who are straight themselves and they crudely say they're making music for "fags and ravers"

Eurotrash Music.

Why do they work in a style of music they so obviously disrespect?

2 reasons.

The music is easy to make and easy to sell.

Because of the club scene, electronika is on e of the few genres that didn't suffer from downloading.

You can go to any gay club anywhere, and I'll say 100% of time they have some form of electronika.

they sure as hell aint dancing to Bob Seger

They aren't dancing to Bob Seger at straight clubs either. They are dancing to house electronic music. I love rock but it's not really that danceable or suited to a club, it's more suited to live performance.
I"ve met dj's many of whom are straight and they don't have the same attitude that the people you know do. They actually love that kind of music. All the "ravers" aren't gay, a lot of them are younger straight people.

It's easy to make a dance record, but it's actually hard to make a good one. Does that kind of music actually sell? It seems to me a lot of it is music that people enjoy dancing to at a club, but they don't necessarily buy it to listen to at home or on their Ipod.

But Madonna hasn't done and wouldn't do the kind of music that trance dj's play at clubs, She does pop music that just happens to use electronics. Totally different from the club music you are talking about.

Glindathegood said:

HermesReborn said:

Stereotypes is how the world works...

While Electronika can be associated with all walks of life

its associated with the gay community cause they took it and ran with it.

Its associated with the gay and drug culture.

I've worked with some very prominent trance DJ's,

who are straight themselves and they crudely say they're making music for "fags and ravers"

Eurotrash Music.

Why do they work in a style of music they so obviously disrespect?

2 reasons.

The music is easy to make and easy to sell.

Because of the club scene, electronika is on e of the few genres that didn't suffer from downloading.

You can go to any gay club anywhere, and I'll say 100% of time they have some form of electronika.

they sure as hell aint dancing to Bob Seger

They aren't dancing to Bob Seger at straight clubs either. They are dancing to house electronic music. I love rock but it's not really that danceable or suited to a club, it's more suited to live performance.
I"ve met dj's many of whom are straight and they don't have the same attitude that the people you know do. They actually love that kind of music. All the "ravers" aren't gay, a lot of them are younger straight people.

It's easy to make a dance record, but it's actually hard to make a good one. Does that kind of music actually sell? It seems to me a lot of it is music that people enjoy dancing to at a club, but they don't necessarily buy it to listen to at home or on their Ipod.

But Madonna hasn't done and wouldn't do the kind of music that trance dj's play at clubs, She does pop music that just happens to use electronics. Totally different from the club music you are talking about.

They sell it mostly to clubs and DJ's

The industry has been phasing out alot of white label promotional singles.

And clubs have had to stockpile songs, instead of hiring DJ's with extensive stockpiles

Thats really a whole other story though.

Straight People dance to rock...

And it's fucking hilarious lol

Seriously your really arguing with me on semantics?

ALL ELEKTRONIKA MUSIC, be it fused with pop or not.

I work with trance dj's I'm not pingeonholing that genre though.

There is nothing wrong with that type of music.

It is easy to make though

painfully easy

Well now it is... anyway.

But thats most music.

I digress.

Thats not the reason I want her to do something else.

I feel she's just playing it safe pandering to her base.

She's no longer involved in the creative process.

It basically feels like shes throwing out an album as an excuse to tour.

Before it at least seemed like she cared

now not so much.

New photos of Madonna at the Venice premiere of her new movie 'W.E.'

HermesReborn said:

They sell it mostly to clubs and DJ's

The industry has been phasing out alot of white label promotional singles.

And clubs have had to stockpile songs, instead of hiring DJ's with extensive stockpiles

Thats really a whole other story though.

Straight People dance to rock...

And it's fucking hilarious lol

Seriously your really arguing with me on semantics?

ALL ELEKTRONIKA MUSIC, be it fused with pop or not.

I work with trance dj's I'm not pingeonholing that genre though.

There is nothing wrong with that type of music.

It is easy to make though

painfully easy

Well now it is... anyway.

But thats most music.

I digress.

Thats not the reason I want her to do something else.

I feel she's just playing it safe pandering to her base.

She's no longer involved in the creative process.

It basically feels like shes throwing out an album as an excuse to tour.

Before it at least seemed like she cared

now not so much.

But why does she have to change if she likes that type of music? Her first record was very dance oriented. People don't expect rock bands to change away from rock and say it's not creative.

I think you're overstereotyping. Sure a lot of gay people are into house and electronica, but so are many straight people. There are also gay people who like rock.

Glindathegood said:

HermesReborn said:

They sell it mostly to clubs and DJ's

The industry has been phasing out alot of white label promotional singles.

And clubs have had to stockpile songs, instead of hiring DJ's with extensive stockpiles

Thats really a whole other story though.

Straight People dance to rock...

And it's fucking hilarious lol

Seriously your really arguing with me on semantics?

ALL ELEKTRONIKA MUSIC, be it fused with pop or not.

I work with trance dj's I'm not pingeonholing that genre though.

There is nothing wrong with that type of music.

It is easy to make though

painfully easy

Well now it is... anyway.

But thats most music.

I digress.

Thats not the reason I want her to do something else.

I feel she's just playing it safe pandering to her base.

She's no longer involved in the creative process.

It basically feels like shes throwing out an album as an excuse to tour.

Before it at least seemed like she cared

now not so much.

But why does she have to change if she likes that type of music? Her first record was very dance oriented. People don't expect rock bands to change away from rock and say it's not creative.

I think you're overstereotyping. Sure a lot of gay people are into house and electronica, but so are many straight people. There are also gay people who like rock.

Seriously...

Now you're defending her music because it's her preference.

You do know that's a losing battle.

Swedish bands like making crappy black metal.

Does that defeat the fact that it's crappy black metal?

Of course not.

I don't know why you keep comparing to Rock music...

Critics are incredibly harsh on Rock bands, myself included.

Matter a few post I did criticize a rock band

THE ROLLING STONES!

For the same reason. They Play It Safe.

I'll criticize any artist who hasn't ventured out of their comfort zone at least once.

Be it musically or lyrically.

I have a motto

Any person who likes only one type of music is an asshole.

I feel the same about those, who only play one type of music.

Madonna doesn't have to play rock.

Actually I would prefer if she didn't.

But Pop is a BIG genre, that has the ability to encompass anything.

I was just asked why I'm here on Prince.org even though my fan status is waning every day.

Here's why.

Despite Princes epic musical failures.

He is the definition of what an artist should be like.

Confident and fearless in whatever genre he chooses to attempt.

Be it funk, Rock, Disco, Jazz, Folk, Classical

You name it.

I wasn't a big fan of N.E.W.S. but I gave it up to him for trying something different.

It shows growth.

I don't see that from Madonna.

And I like her.

I didn't see that from MJ

and I liked him.

Now I'm not asking that she be like Prince, and go buck wild and try everything under the sea.

But give me some variety.

Some semblance that you are an artist, and not a blurb.

Also why does it bother you so much that gays like electronika?

Who cares, if they have a predilection for it.

Maybe they don't even like it, perhaps they just like dancing to it.

But seriously who gives a damn.

It's a stereotype sure, but its not even a negative one.

Why do you keep harping on that?

It's like the equivalent of saying

Only emo's listen to Deathcab for cutie or dashboard confessional

Sure there will be people who listen to them, and don't qualify as Emo.

but 9 times out of 10 you find an Emo fucker they like either one of those two bands

and who gives a shit?

not me

Nice new photo of Madonna taken yesterday....

Wow truly gorgeous, even if it is touched up. Looks like 80's Madonna

HermesReborn said:

Glindathegood said:

But why does she have to change if she likes that type of music? Her first record was very dance oriented. People don't expect rock bands to change away from rock and say it's not creative.

I think you're overstereotyping. Sure a lot of gay people are into house and electronica, but so are many straight people. There are also gay people who like rock.

Seriously...

Now you're defending her music because it's her preference.

You do know that's a losing battle.

Swedish bands like making crappy black metal.

Does that defeat the fact that it's crappy black metal?

Of course not.

I don't know why you keep comparing to Rock music...

Critics are incredibly harsh on Rock bands, myself included.

Matter a few post I did criticize a rock band

THE ROLLING STONES!

For the same reason. They Play It Safe.

I'll criticize any artist who hasn't ventured out of their comfort zone at least once.

Be it musically or lyrically.

I have a motto

Any person who likes only one type of music is an asshole.

I feel the same about those, who only play one type of music.

Madonna doesn't have to play rock.

Actually I would prefer if she didn't.

But Pop is a BIG genre, that has the ability to encompass anything.

I was just asked why I'm here on Prince.org even though my fan status is waning every day.

Here's why.

Despite Princes epic musical failures.

He is the definition of what an artist should be like.

Confident and fearless in whatever genre he chooses to attempt.

Be it funk, Rock, Disco, Jazz, Folk, Classical

You name it.

I wasn't a big fan of N.E.W.S. but I gave it up to him for trying something different.

It shows growth.

I don't see that from Madonna.

And I like her.

I didn't see that from MJ

and I liked him.

Now I'm not asking that she be like Prince, and go buck wild and try everything under the sea.

But give me some variety.

Some semblance that you are an artist, and not a blurb.

Also why does it bother you so much that gays like electronika?

Who cares, if they have a predilection for it.

Maybe they don't even like it, perhaps they just like dancing to it.

But seriously who gives a damn.

It's a stereotype sure, but its not even a negative one.

Why do you keep harping on that?

It's like the equivalent of saying

Only emo's listen to Deathcab for cutie or dashboard confessional

Sure there will be people who listen to them, and don't qualify as Emo.

but 9 times out of 10 you find an Emo fucker they like either one of those two bands

and who gives a shit?

not me

is this a lyric 4 some eminem's outtake?

paisleypark4 said:

VoicesCarry said:

She needs to come hard this time. Hard Candy was a complete and utter disaster musically - the first time it sounded as if she just phoned up the producers of the moment and asked them to work on her album. You listen to Ray of Light and Hard Candy back to back and it's apparent just how drastically the quality of her output declined. Other girls like Robyn, Roisin Murphy and Sia are putting her to shame so she has no excuse.

Listen to American Life to Confessions and you see how they improved..I dont think that's a fair assesment.

My point actually related more to the gradual erosion of her artistic ambitions over the past decade. Confessions is great for what it is, but it's no ROL. Her lyrics, in particular, have suffered.

VoicesCarry said:

right now I'd b more excited if they released remastered versions of LAP and Erotica. That would make my day!

Madonna has added another collaborator to her upcoming 12th studio album, songwriter Jean Baptiste Kouame. The already on board William Orbit has worked with Baptiste previously, co-producing his original material. Nearly ever song on Fleshtone by Kelis was written by Baptiste. Fantastic! He’s also written for Kerli, Rihanna…the list goes on.

[Edited 9/2/11 11:07am]

I can't wait!

Yes, it's a losing battle with Hermes Reborn, because he wants to go on rants and not really listen to what I'm saying. I love all kinds of music. but not necessarily from the same artist. I think most artists have a genre that they are the most comfortable with and are the best at. The key is to find what suits your voice and your personality best. Sort of like the way doctors and lawyers specialize in one field or specialty. I don't think it works to be a jack of all trades, but a master of none.

What's artistic about doing a different genre just for the sake of it if the songs don't sound good?

You say you want her to do pop. But most pop falls into one of the genres, such as rock, R&B or electro-pop. Can you name a pop artist who doesn't sort of fit into one of the other genres? What is pure pop these days anyway?

Sorry, but I don't think most artists can be good at every single kind of music. I'm not here because of Prince. I mostly come here because it's a good place to find information on a diverse group of artists. I liked some of Prince's earlier hits but I don't think his all over the place experimentation really works or leads to great music. I think he's at his best when he sticks more to the funk/rock style he's best known for.

I don't care that gays listen only to electronica. But you were the one that said it was wrong for Madonna to do that genre because she was limiting to herself to the gay community. If there's nothing wrong with being gay, what is wrong with her limiting herself to her base of the gay community if that's only who like electronica which I don't think is the case.

[Edited 9/2/11 13:04pm]

stevenpottle said:

Madonna has added another collaborator to her upcoming 12th studio album, songwriter Jean Baptiste Kouame. The already on board William Orbit has worked with Baptiste previously, co-producing his original material. Nearly ever song on Fleshtone by Kelis was written by Baptiste. Fantastic! He’s also written for Kerli, Rihanna…the list goes on.

I'm not familiar with his work....has he done any great songs with other artists?

go2theMax said:

right now I'd b more excited if they released remastered versions of LAP and Erotica. That would make my day!

Dream on This is one thing that Madonna has in common with Prince: she doesn't seem to care about her back catalog.When Warners put together the 2-CD 'Celebration' set,she submitted two lazy 'new' songs and had no other involvement.

SoulAlive said:

go2theMax said:

right now I'd b more excited if they released remastered versions of LAP and Erotica. That would make my day!

Dream on This is one thing that Madonna has in common with Prince: she doesn't seem to care about her back catalog.When Warners put together the 2-CD 'Celebration' set,she submitted two lazy 'new' songs and had no other involvement.

I feel that way too. I like hearing the older stuff at live concerts, but I really have no interest in buying remastered stuff of things I already have. But mostly I'm interested in new music.

Glindathegood said:

SoulAlive said:

Dream on This is one thing that Madonna has in common with Prince: she doesn't seem to care about her back catalog.When Warners put together the 2-CD 'Celebration' set,she submitted two lazy 'new' songs and had no other involvement.

I feel that way too. I like hearing the older stuff at live concerts, but I really have no interest in buying remastered stuff of things I already have. But mostly I'm interested in new music.

SoulAlive said:

stevenpottle said:

Madonna has added another collaborator to her upcoming 12th studio album, songwriter Jean Baptiste Kouame. The already on board William Orbit has worked with Baptiste previously, co-producing his original material. Nearly ever song on Fleshtone by Kelis was written by Baptiste. Fantastic! He’s also written for Kerli, Rihanna…the list goes on.

I'm not familiar with his work....has he done any great songs with other artists?

This is actually good news. Fleshtone is a great record. One of my faves of 2010. I'd think you'd like it SoulAlive. Youtube the following Kelis tracks to get an idea: Brave, Acapella, 4th of July, Scream.

TheResistor said:

SoulAlive said:

I'm not familiar with his work....has he done any great songs with other artists?

This is actually good news. Fleshtone is a great record. One of my faves of 2010. I'd think you'd like it SoulAlive. Youtube the following Kelis tracks to get an idea: Brave, Acapella, 4th of July, Scream.

thanks,I'll check it out