mjscarousal said:

SEANMAN said:

I'd venture to say that it's the best video by a female pop star, of all time. Period.

[img:$uid]http://i903.photobucket.com/albums/ac231/mjscarousal/BillieJean-31.gif[/img:$uid]

This is the best video by a female pop star of all time.... but principle comes closeeeeee

MYM anyone?

ThePopLover2 said:

mjscarousal said:

[img:$uid]http://i903.photobucket.com/albums/ac231/mjscarousal/BillieJean-31.gif[/img:$uid]

This is the best video by a female pop star of all time.... but principle comes closeeeeee

MYM anyone?

ThePopLover2 said:

SEANMAN said:

Exactly.

I actually wouldnt say that the WHOLE entire Jackson family are legends.. because Latoya and rebbie?

But if you're countin J5, MJ, and Janet, then yes:-D

Let's just run down the real greats of the Jacksons:

Jackie: Legend as a member of the J5/Jacksons

Tito: Legend as a member of the J5/Jacksons

Jermaine: Legend as a member of the J5/Jacksons; could've been a legend solowise but he kinda ruined that

mjscarousal said:

ThePopLover2 said:

MYM anyone?

[img:$uid]http://i903.photobucket.com/albums/ac231/mjscarousal/BillieJean-34.gif[/img:$uid]

I'll make a case for all three.

Janet has put in the work 2 be considered a legend but I question is she really has the "talent" 2 be at that level.

Let's say her name was Janet Smith.....and not Jackson. How would be be viewed?

Graycap23 said:

Janet has put in the work 2 be considered a legend but I question is she really has the "talent" 2 be at that level.

Let's say her name was Janet Smith.....and not Jackson. How would be be viewed?

As an all around entertainer? Yes she does.

If it had been her music and her just standing around, then maybe not.

I think she did hustle a bit to get where she's at now though in terms of her status.

Graycap23 said:

Janet has put in the work 2 be considered a legend but I question is she really has the "talent" 2 be at that level.

Let's say her name was Janet Smith.....and not Jackson. How would be be viewed?

I get so sick N tired of explaining this. Lawd knows I do

ThePopLover2 said:

Graycap23 said:

Janet has put in the work 2 be considered a legend but I question is she really has the "talent" 2 be at that level.

Let's say her name was Janet Smith.....and not Jackson. How would be be viewed?

I get so sick N tired of explaining this. Lawd knows I do

Convince me.

Graycap23 said:

ThePopLover2 said:

I get so sick N tired of explaining this. Lawd knows I do

Convince me.

You know it really doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure it out , hell even a kindergardener could supply more logic. If Janet was famous because of her last name, THE OTHER Jacksons would be just as famous.

Oh! And here's another one! If janet did stay really famous only because of her last name, why didnt her first 2 albums sale over 500,000?

[Edited 8/12/11 13:26pm]

SEANMAN said:

NaQu said:

See, this is why I tend to not like Janet fans.

So many of you love to insinuate her alleged influence on every damn singer with uterus. None of them would be here if not for her? Really? I'm sorry, does Janet own some talent agency that they are signed to?

Jody? Did you really cite Jody? As in Jody Watley, who was in Shalamar a decade before Janet finally broke with Control? Who has never had *any* personal or professional ties to Janet...

Paula? As in Paula Abdul whose career started with the L.A. Lakers, got her break in the entertainment industry via Jackie, and choreographed the "Torture" video. Don't act like Janet put her on. If anything, in addition Jam & Lewis making her sound decent enough, Janet is the one who owes Paula a debt of career gratitude for making those Control videos look like something. Before Paula, this is what a Janet video looked like:

I know you're a fan of hers and all, but no. Just, no.

I could call bullshit on several of the other names dropped on that list too, like Katy Perry and Ginuwine, but I've made my point. Hell, I'm surprised you didn't list Taylor Swift, Alanis Morissette and Courtney Love in there as well.

First off, DEAD@ you posting the "Dream Street" clip as if it'll prove something. That is not even a proper video. It was taken from a Debbie Allen-directed episode of "Fame". And no, Janet may not have inspired every female performer who dared perform, but she has certainly inspired a legion of female performers from the '80s up until today. Let's have a look at history.

Every single one of these albums came in the wake of "Control". Every one of them. Before "Control", the pop music industry was devoid of dance/pop females of color who danced. You had your Evelyn "Champagne" Kings, your Cheryl Lynns, your Cherelles, but there were no females of color with elaborately-staged dance videos. When "Control" came out and dominated in 1986, it changed that, and helped usher in albums like these from artists like these. It's a perennial occurrence in pop music. When one thing is successful, let's duplicate it. And, as much as I love Jody Watley and respect her as the diva and original artist that she is, her debut CD was certainly made possible because of the success of "Control". Do I think she would have released a CD after splitting with Shalamar? No doubt. But you can best believe that record companies were a little more eager to sign her to a deal when they saw the niche market "Control" was making.

@ 1:35, Pebbles says that if it wasn't for Janet, she wouldn't be where she was

...And these are just artists from the '80s.

Let's have a look at the '90s...

With the '90s came a softer, sexier Janet. Gone was the woman known for her up-to-here black outfits and tomboy image. Several other female artists followed suit with this trend. TLC, who burst onto the scene as three tomboys in overalls with condoms as accessories would later, in 1994, transition into three sleek, sensual ladies in charge of their own sexuality. Salt-N-Pepa were known in the '80s and early '90s for their street-wise, urban look with rider boots, big jackets and chunky gold earrings. In late 1993, with the release of their "Very Necessary" album, they went from street to sexy, and had the videos to accompany their new look. Hell, part of the choreography in their "Whatta Man" video is so close to a piece of the "If" routine that I'm almost certain Tina Landon had a big WTF look on her face when she caught it. Have a look at "If" from 0:48-0:52, and then "Whatta Man" from 1:26-1:31...

TLC have long given Janet props. Their FanMail tour had a Janet-esque segment in which Chilli pulled a guy from the audience and danced for him. Chilli also said on a VH1 special about the "Control" video that, when she first saw it, she thought, 'Now that's how I've gotta do it!'

Aaliyah had always cited Janet as a major inspiration. In this video, from 2:47-3:11, she tells Rosie O'Donnell that she's long been a HUGE fan, and that she mentions her in every interview.

As for Britney Spears, people are quick to compare her to Madonna, but I have never seen a bigger Janet clone in pop music than Britney. Everything from her videos, to her photos, concerts, the inflections in her singing and her dance routines scream Janet. She's also performed "Black Cat" several times in concert. JC Chasez once said on an E! special about the Mickey Mouse Club that, when they were all on the show, Christina was known as Little Mariah and Britney was called Little Janet. I can see why.

And then came the 2000s. Jennifer Lopez, Lady Gaga, Christina Aguilera, Ciara, Mya, Cassie (whose "Me & U" video is a veritable rip-off of "The Pleasure Principle"), Rihanna, Beyonce and Kelly Rowland have all cited Janet as an inspiration and/or had videos that are similar to Janet videos. Nowadays, it's not uncommon to see Rihanna, Britney, et.al bring a guy on stage to dance seductively for him, ala Janet.

Jennifer Lopez says "Pleasure Principle" inspired her to get into the business

Gaga speaks on her admiration for Janet, and calls her a...what's that word?...LEGEND!

Kelly Rowland gives Janet props beginning @ 5:07

Kelly paying homage to Janet's 1998 "I Get Lonely" performance at this year's BET Awards

"Janet was definitely one person I loved to watch growing up and I think she's such an amazing performer and she's contributed so many great things to the musical trend. Because of that I am inspired by her as an artist."--Ciara

CiCi sportin' a Janet shirt

"Janet was one of the first female pop icons that I could relate to ... She was so vibrant, she had so much energy. She still has power. I’ve seen her on stage, and she can stand there for 20 minutes and have the whole arena scream at her. You have to love Janet."--Rihanna

"I saw the video for 'Nasty' and was blown away. There were no other girls like her. I had my mom take me shopping to buy clothes like hers. I permed my hair and dyed it black. I wanted to dance like her. I wanted to be Janet Jackson."--Carmen Electra from Blender Magazine in 2002

**To see what Beyonce has had to say about Janet, go to the Aaliyah video from above and watch from 1:02-1:36

Foxy Brown sampled "What Have You Done for Me Lately"

Teairra Mari "Come Back To Me" cover

Kat Graham Janet Remake Mash-up

"It’s a tribute to Janet , from me. It’s not like I’m trying to take anyone out, I just wanted to say, 'Oh my god, I love you so much, let me pay my respects now.' I know I’m going to get comparisons [to Janet] because of my whole acting, dancing, singing thing — so this is me taking the bull by the horns and thanking her first and foremost."--Kat Graham, of "The Vampire Diaries"

“My dream role is to play Janet Jackson, if she ever does her life story while I’m still alive – and I’m young enough to play her."--Keshia Knight Pullium

Looks like even megastars get starstruck by other celebrities! Singer and actress Raven Symone could not contain her emotions as she met Janet Jackson for the first time at a recent concert. The former ‘Cosby’ star has been a die-hard Jackson fan for quite some time and attended one of her shows earlier this year.

She tells Sister 2 Sister magazine, “I met her – well, I didn’t meet her, I just, like, cried all over her. I went to her concert… I was a hot mess. I looked at her (backstage) and said, ‘I can’t do it!’ I ran and went to go sit in the back of a truck and her band conductor said, ‘Raven, what’s wrong?’ I said, ‘She’s so beautiful; I can’t take it.’ And my mom called me out. She said, ‘Girl, get your butt back here and take a picture with Janet! (There’s) something about the Jackson family, their aura, their energy, it overwhelms you. Especially if you’re a fan.”

Symone wants to tame her infatuation, so that she can play the popstar in a biopic. She says, “My dream role is to play in Janet Jackson’s life story, if I could ever talk to her without crying. If I could actually meet Janet and not cry and run away and make a crackhead of myself, then I’d like to play her.”

Gabrielle Union admits she was such a huge fan of Janet Jackson that she even let her fixation enter her professional life.

She says, "My love affair with Janet Jackson began when she was CHARLENE on DIFF'RENT STROKES.

"Once, before a big audition, I asked my hairstylist to make me look like her. I did my make-up like Janet, and I walked into WARNER BROTHERS listening to Janet on my headphones, and who else walks out of there but Janet Jackson..."

**

More female performers speak about Janet, from 3:00-3:22 in the following vid...

So, maybe now it's a little more clear for you why Janet fans tend to get ticked off when people so ardently dismiss her legacy as "Oh, she's just famous because of so-and-so", or "she's only known as Michael's little sister," and all such utter bullshit as that. And, like I said, she may not have influenced every performer with a uterus, a vagina, boobs, or what-have-you, but you can best believe that she has certainly influenced, inspired and paved the way for a slew of artists, past and present, male and female (take a look at page 2 of this thread for more artists--with penises and vaginas--who have taken a page out of her book). In short, she IS influential, she IS a trendsetter, and she IS a pop legend. Deny it all you want, but you can't take that away from her. Oh, and since you mentioned Courtney Love, NaQu...

You think maybe Janet influenced her to wear that red lipstick?

*And about Alanis, well, her first Canadian dance/pop CD was labelled a "faux-Janet Jackson album" by the Kansas City Star (I love her first two CDs, by the way). I believe I read once that she even saw Janet live during the RN tour. This would seem likely, since her style and videos back then were very Janet-esque...

[Edited 8/11/11 16:02pm]

Were you serious w/ all that? I mean, really. These incredibly long winded rants defending Janet's status that you habitually conjure up in her defense are tired and boring. Like you have something to prove. And after ALL that, you know what? I'm STILL not convinced. IMO Janet is just another branch from the Jackson family machine, and is only famous because of it. I don't think she's particularly talented, nor do I think she's as influential or notable as her fans would have everyone believe, because for whatever reason they have some kind of complex about her not being recognized. And furthermore, anyone she did "influence" was really just influenced by Michael -- since that's who SHE copied off of. Again, she's no "legend" in my eyes. The OP posed a question to everyone, and I answered it. Your book didn't impress me nor convince me to change my stance on her.

Janet Jackson, IMO, is just a tiny voiced studio singer and chronic lipsyncer, who because she was lucky enough to be of relation to Michael and to have a much more talented hit making production team behind her who were able to bury or spin her limitations into something that could still be marketed under the guise of their production, was able to rise to fame in the middle to late 80s and keep that little bit of clout for a decade or so before she finally fell off.

My opinion. You don't have to like it or agree, but you for damn sure won't browbeat me into changing it.

[Edited 8/12/11 13:38pm]

[Edited 8/12/11 17:13pm]

NaQu said:

Were you serious that all that? I mean, really. These incredibly long winded rants defending Janet's status that you habitually conjure up in her defense are tired and boring. Like you have something to prove. And after ALL that, you know what? I'm STILL not convinced. IMO Janet is just another branch from the Jackson family machine, and is only famous because of it. I don't think she's particularly talented, nor do I think she's as influential or notable as her fans would have everyone believe, because for whatever reason they have some kind of complex about her not being recognized. And furthermore, anyone she did "influence" was really just influenced by Michael -- since that's who SHE copied off of. Again, she's no "legend" in my eyes. The OP posed a question to everyone, and I answered it. Your book didn't impress me nor convince me to change my stance on her.

Janet Jackson, IMO, is just a tiny voiced studio singer and chronic lipsyncer, who because she was lucky enough to be of relation to Michael and to have a much more talented hit making production team behind her who were able to bury or spin her limitations into something that could still be marketed under the guise of their production, was able to rise to fame in the middle to late 80s and keep that little bit of clout for a decade or so before she finally fell off.

My opinion. You don't have to like it or agree, but you for damn sure won't browbeat me into changing it.

[Edited 8/12/11 13:38pm]

Did you really just say that anyone she "influenced" was actually influenced by MJ? Lord, now I've heard it all. I don't think Jennifer Lopez watched "The Pleasure Principle" video and said, "I want to go into show business because Janet killed it in that video, just like Michael!" Puh-lease. And I could honestly care less if I "changed your mind" about Janet being a legend. I'm not in the business of "browbeating," but rather, speaking the truth (now matter how much of a "book" it is)--and the truth hurts...you're in the minority with your opinion. My post was an informative and true look at the history of her influence. Your finding it "boring" is irrelevant--maybe you equate "the facts" with boredom? Don't know, don't care.

Janet had that "it" factor that made her a star. Latoya didn't. Rebbie didn't (and hell, Rebbie had a smokin' hit track penned and produced by MJ himself!) If she didn't have that "it" factor, then "Control" would have more than likely been her last hurrah as a singer. You people who dismiss her legacy as "because she's related to MJ" fail to see that, yes, having the Jackson name gave her pull, but it was her talent that carried her to being one of the biggest female pop stars of the last two decades-plus. Just coasting on being Michael's little sister alone wouldn't have given her all those years of hits and record-breaking successes. Hell, even MJ himself acknowledged her talent, and came to her when he needed her most--for "Scream".

And if you can't clearly see that "Control" created a ripple effect that afforded the likes of JODY, PAULA, KARYN, VANESSA, etc., to have pop success in the late '80s, and that her career has been the blueprint that everyone from Britney thru Ciara follow, then I'd like to have some of what it is you're smoking.

[Edited 8/12/11 15:41pm]

Free2BMe said:

SEANMAN said:

Right, and a baiter. I've seen her go into a thread and just egg people on with no other reason other than just to start something up.

I thought Trueopian was a fan of Janet. Why is she considered a troll/baiter because she may have had a change of heart in her fandom? Seriously, I really didn't see anything vile, disrepectful, or vicious in her discussion as to why she is no longer enchanted with Janet.

She said that she didn't consider Janet a legend and gave her reasons why she felt like that. Is that troll behavior. LOL, I have seen MUCH,MUCH worse in some of the threads that I have entered. Again, Just wondering.

Maybe you've never been privy to her behavior, but she would purposely egg people on just to get a rise out of them. For instance, if someone posted a video from a clip of a Janet show, she would go on and on about it being a lipped performance. That's fine, but when someone would come and dispute that, she'd make it personal, calling the person a "stan" and a myriad of other names, and degrading the poster's character because they saw differently. And this was after her first alleged ban. If she really was banned before, and came back to the Org doing the same shit, then she deserved to get the...

[Edited 8/12/11 15:55pm]

y'all are gonna be debating this for the next 40 years

SoulAlive said:

y'all are gonna be debating this for the next 40 years

She would've long been in the R&R Hall of Fame by then.

SEANMAN said:

SoulAlive said:

y'all are gonna be debating this for the next 40 years

She would've long been in the R&R Hall of Fame by then.

and if she's not,I'm sure you'll be raising hell

SoulAlive said:

SEANMAN said:

She would've long been in the R&R Hall of Fame by then.

and if she's not,I'm sure you'll be raising hell

SoulAlive said:

SEANMAN said:

She would've long been in the R&R Hall of Fame by then.

and if she's not,I'm sure you'll be raising hell