Jimmy Hendrix and Janis Joplin are undeniably a musical heroes to many.

There are musical heroes of today. For instance Madonna and Michael Jackson are contemporary musical heroes. But there are many detractors. And we have healthy debates about their talent or lack of talent.

I'm curious... are there ANY people who think Jimmy Hendrix or Janis Joplin were average? If there are, do they risk life and limb to declare that?

It seems to me these 2 and others... like John Lennon have taken on god-like status. And to criticize or question their talent is equivalent to blasmephy.

And the next question is, if you think they were over rated, explain why?

Disclaimer: I am only casual listener of these musicians... so my question in no way gives an opinion on the subject.

I'm asking because I am thinking about youtubing my way through their catalogues to experience new music and I wonder if these 3 are worth the effort, or did they take on muscial god-like status because they died during their heyday.

I have wondered this for days since reading the Amy Winehouse thread where people were totally dismissing her "genius" status, and I just wondered, why no one ever challenges these aforementioned "musical genuis" status.

I don't think they are that great.

Sure Janis had an amazing voice, and Jimmi is the epitome of a good guitar player.

I would say both had a knack for poetic lyrics.

But at the end of it all I think their music is boring and the fact that people constantly play up that era of music like it is better than anything else makes them a total turn off to me.

For instance on any thread about my favorite artists I always see someone with a Jimmi pic bashing them. All the freaking time.

They are talented, but the dated production sound and the blues influence are just not for me.

[Edited 7/28/11 20:15pm]

RKJCNE said:

I don't think they are that great.

Sure Janis had an amazing voice, and Jimmi is the epitome of a good guitar player.

I would say both had a knack for poetic lyrics.

But at the end of it all I think their music is boring and the fact that people constantly play up that era of music like it is better than anything else makes them a total turn off to me.

For instance on any thread about my favorite artists I always see someone with a Jimmi pic bashing them. All the freaking time.

They are talented, but the dated production sound and the blues influence are just not for me.

[Edited 7/28/11 20:15pm]

wow, thanks for the reply because I was beginning to think that they must be all that to everyone.

My dh is watching a documentary on Hendrix right now, and he is ooohing and ahhhing about it.

I just wondered.

I have heard 1 person who talk about Joplin oversinging but not often. Just the songs that I heard on radio etc, Joplin does holler a lot... and I don't care for that style of singing.

But I think to actually say that, people will stand in line to take shots at you.

I'm speaking on the subject of Jimi Hendrix only.
It's one thing to not like his music. That is a subjective opinion.
It's totally another to deny that he was a musical innovator who totally expanded the lexicon of electric guitar playing.
That is simply being ignorant of the facts.



Music for adventurous listeners

tA

Tribal Records

theAudience said:

I'm speaking on the subject of Jimi Hendrix only.
It's one thing to not like his music. That is a subjective opinion.
It's totally another to deny that he was a musical innovator who totally expanded the lexicon of electric guitar playing.
That is simply being ignorant of the facts.



Music for adventurous listeners

tA

Tribal Records

Are you referring to the well known facts that he was left handed so his strings were strung backward so therefore his sound was totally unique?

Hubby just flipped out on performance where Hendrix while playing a song, adjusted his strings to get the note to sound the way he thought it should sound, while playing the song.

I guess this is hard to to... most people will stop playing song, make adjustment then go on with song. Hendrix made adjustment during song and never missed a note.

Like I said, I am casual listener so I dunno. Are these things really that unique and evidence of genius?

prodigalfan said:

Jimmy Hendrix and Janis Joplin are undeniably a musical heroes to many.

There are musical heroes of today. For instance Madonna and Michael Jackson are contemporary musical heroes. But there are many detractors. And we have healthy debates about their talent or lack of talent.

I'm curious... are there ANY people who think Jimmy Hendrix or Janis Joplin were average? If there are, do they risk life and limb to declare that?

It seems to me these 2 and others... like John Lennon have taken on god-like status. And to criticize or question their talent is equivalent to blasmephy.

And the next question is, if you think they were over rated, explain why?

Disclaimer: I am only casual listener of these musicians... so my question in no way gives an opinion on the subject.

I'm asking because I am thinking about youtubing my way through their catalogues to experience new music and I wonder if these 3 are worth the effort, or did they take on muscial god-like status because they died during their heyday.

I have wondered this for days since reading the Amy Winehouse thread where people were totally dismissing her "genius" status, and I just wondered, why no one ever challenges these aforementioned "musical genuis" status.

...I actually think Hendrix deserves all the accolades and asskissing he gets; he was doing stuff on the guitar that before him, no one was doing. Joplin, I do think is overrated (despite how much I like her), because really her voice wasn't much good.

But you're totally right about how some artists, if you openly admit you think they're overrated, people jump on you for it. I honestly think that Bob Dylan and the Beatles (and Lennon specifically), are probably the most overrated musicians who ever have or will exist, but Beatles fans are psycho; if you say it they start trying to lecture you and tell you you're wrong like it's a fact that the Beatles are the best thing ever. It's like they lack the fundamental ability to understand that their opinion, isn't the same thing as fact, and that it's all very subjective.

And as far as Amy goes - I think she's going to end up being one of those artists where the public at large doesn't grasp just how talented she was, until decades after her passing.

prodigalfan said:

Are you referring to the well known facts that he was left handed so his strings were strung backward so therefore his sound was totally unique?

Hubby just flipped out on performance where Hendrix while playing a song, adjusted his strings to get the note to sound the way he thought it should sound, while playing the song.

I guess this is hard to to... most people will stop playing song, make adjustment then go on with song. Hendrix made adjustment during song and never missed a note.

Like I said, I am casual listener so I dunno. Are these things really that unique and evidence of genius?

No it's not any of that.

He played left-handed on a right-handed guitar but the strings were restrung so he played "left-handed proper".

As for tuning during a song, any competent guitarist can do that.

His "genius" was the unearthly (as well as earthly) sounds he was able to generate from, by today's standards, very generic equipment.

Not to mention the songs and his use of the recording studio as essentially another instrument.

Music for adventurous listeners

tA

Tribal Records

armpit said:

prodigalfan said:

Jimmy Hendrix and Janis Joplin are undeniably a musical heroes to many.

There are musical heroes of today. For instance Madonna and Michael Jackson are contemporary musical heroes. But there are many detractors. And we have healthy debates about their talent or lack of talent.

I'm curious... are there ANY people who think Jimmy Hendrix or Janis Joplin were average? If there are, do they risk life and limb to declare that?

It seems to me these 2 and others... like John Lennon have taken on god-like status. And to criticize or question their talent is equivalent to blasmephy.

And the next question is, if you think they were over rated, explain why?

Disclaimer: I am only casual listener of these musicians... so my question in no way gives an opinion on the subject.

I'm asking because I am thinking about youtubing my way through their catalogues to experience new music and I wonder if these 3 are worth the effort, or did they take on muscial god-like status because they died during their heyday.

I have wondered this for days since reading the Amy Winehouse thread where people were totally dismissing her "genius" status, and I just wondered, why no one ever challenges these aforementioned "musical genuis" status.

...I actually think Hendrix deserves all the accolades and asskissing he gets; he was doing stuff on the guitar that before him, no one was doing. Joplin, I do think is overrated (despite how much I like her), because really her voice wasn't much good.

But you're totally right about how some artists, if you openly admit you think they're overrated, people jump on you for it. I honestly think that Bob Dylan and the Beatles (and Lennon specifically), are probably the most overrated musicians who ever have or will exist, but Beatles fans are psycho; if you say it they start trying to lecture you and tell you you're wrong like it's a fact that the Beatles are the best thing ever. It's like they lack the fundamental ability to understand that their opinion, isn't the same thing as fact, and that it's all very subjective.

And as far as Amy goes - I think she's going to end up being one of those artists where the public at large doesn't grasp just how talented she was, until decades after her passing.

Yeah, I can appreciate Lennon's song writing ability in his solo work, but some of the beatles work... they had catchy tunes... but for instance "Hard Day's work"is equivalent to the catchy top 40 hit of today. Same as "She Loves Me". I don't get it.

I guess Joplin was just SO different to her contemporaries that this is the reason she stood out. I guess sort of like Amy who was also an innovator of style in her era.

As far as Hendrix... I guess those who know (really know about guitar instrument) are truly impressed, and the uninformed like myself just feed into the hype. Because I can't tell what of Hendrix is unearthy and awesome, vs the ordinary. So I can't form an honest opinion.

I really like Stevie Ray Vaughn, and although I don't like the blues... I could listen to Stevie Ray all night.

And of course I get the "he is no Hendrix"all the time so I just wondered if Hendrix is really all that. Because I guess his style of music (rock) really doesn't appeal to me, so I can't truly appreciate his music.'=

I know there are some serious music connesiuers here on the Org and thought it was time I get a little music education.

prodigalfan said:

armpit said:

...I actually think Hendrix deserves all the accolades and asskissing he gets; he was doing stuff on the guitar that before him, no one was doing. Joplin, I do think is overrated (despite how much I like her), because really her voice wasn't much good.

But you're totally right about how some artists, if you openly admit you think they're overrated, people jump on you for it. I honestly think that Bob Dylan and the Beatles (and Lennon specifically), are probably the most overrated musicians who ever have or will exist, but Beatles fans are psycho; if you say it they start trying to lecture you and tell you you're wrong like it's a fact that the Beatles are the best thing ever. It's like they lack the fundamental ability to understand that their opinion, isn't the same thing as fact, and that it's all very subjective.

And as far as Amy goes - I think she's going to end up being one of those artists where the public at large doesn't grasp just how talented she was, until decades after her passing.

Yeah, I can appreciate Lennon's song writing ability in his solo work, but some of the beatles work... they had catchy tunes... but for instance "Hard Day's work"is equivalent to the catchy top 40 hit of today. Same as "She Loves Me". I don't get it.

I guess Joplin was just SO different to her contemporaries that this is the reason she stood out. I guess sort of like Amy who was also an innovator of style in her era.

As far as Hendrix... I guess those who know (really know about guitar instrument) are truly impressed, and the uninformed like myself just feed into the hype. Because I can't tell what of Hendrix is unearthy and awesome, vs the ordinary. So I can't form an honest opinion.

I really like Stevie Ray Vaughn, and although I don't like the blues... I could listen to Stevie Ray all night.

And of course I get the "he is no Hendrix"all the time so I just wondered if Hendrix is really all that. Because I guess his style of music (rock) really doesn't appeal to me, so I can't truly appreciate his music.'=

I know there are some serious music connesiuers here on the Org and thought it was time I get a little music education.

...I swear, as a band the Beatles had like maybe three or four songs, tops, that are worthy of all the hoopla and praise they get ("Eleanor Rigby"; "Long and Winding Road"; "Don't Let Me Down" and "Strawberry Fields Forever"). Solo, the only good thing Lennon did was "Imagine", and honestly right now I can't think of anything McCartney did solo that warrants the adoration he gets. Dylan can't sing and his songs are boring - I've heard way better protest music and music about world issues, from other artists (Stevie Wonder immediately comes to mind); I feel like he gets praise that he doesn't deserve at all because he essentially sounds like an old drunk man slurring words into a mic and calling it singing...

Joplin wasn't really an innovator to me in any respects - plenty of singers whooped and hollered long before her, and managed to do it in tune and actually sound good; and plenty of people were rocking hippie-gear back then. She wasn't a trailblazer, and she just wasn't all that talented; which, I always feel really guilty about saying because as I've said before, it's something about her personality that I really like; I bet if I had been around back then and we ever crossed paths, we'd have been lifelong buddies. But it's just the truth.

I have *one* Hendrix disc, and it's pretty much his greatest hits. I didn't get people's fascination with him either other than his image (which was/is pretty fucking cool), until I read and watched some things and realized that most of the stuff rock guitarists do now, he invented it. He basically created modern rock guitar playing in a sense. That alone makes his universal adoration, justified imo. I couldn't deny his bad-assedness even if I wanted to. Which, I don't because I quite like "Voodoo Child (Slight Return)" and "Little Wing".

prodigalfan said:

As far as Hendrix... I guess those who know (really know about guitar instrument) are truly impressed, and the uninformed like myself just feed into the hype. Because I can't tell what of Hendrix is unearthy and awesome, vs the ordinary. So I can't form an honest opinion.

I really like Stevie Ray Vaughn, and although I don't like the blues... I could listen to Stevie Ray all night.

And of course I get the "he is no Hendrix"all the time so I just wondered if Hendrix is really all that. Because I guess his style of music (rock) really doesn't appeal to me, so I can't truly appreciate his music.'=

I know there are some serious music connesiuers here on the Org and thought it was time I get a little music education.

That's an interesting comment since SRV's playing incorporates a lot of Jimi-nastics.
IMO, SRV's style is a combination of a lot of Hendrix, Albert King, Lonnie Mack and other influences coupled with his own thing.
He certainly covered quite a few of Jimi's tunes.

In his SRV's own words...

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Did you sit down and learn to play from that first Hendrix record Jimmie brought home?

Sure! Hey, man, I remember getting my little stereo – it was one of those Airlines with the “satellite speakers.” That’s what they called them, but they were really these cardboard boxes with a long wire. I would set that up, mike that up. I had a Shure P.A. in my room – this is in my bedroom. For some of my first gigs, I’d go and rent like four Super Reverbs, and I’d have all this set up in my room. [Laughs.] Of course, the parents were at work. I would go in there and floorboard it, you know. Dress up as cool as I could and try to learn his stuff. It all went together. I would try to learn his stuff, and I did the same thing with a lot of B.B. King records. I think back and I must have really – if somebody had walked into the room, they probably would have gone, “What are you doing?!” Because I wouldn’t stop at one place – I’d go for every bit of it I could find. I remember doing it a lot with Axis: Bold as Love, even though I didn’t have the phasing deals, and I’m sure I didn’t have a lot of the sounds. But some of them I could find.

Full interview: http://jasobrecht.com/ste...i-hendrix/
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=



Music for adventurous listeners

tA

Tribal Records

armpit said:

prodigalfan said:

Yeah, I can appreciate Lennon's song writing ability in his solo work, but some of the beatles work... they had catchy tunes... but for instance "Hard Day's work"is equivalent to the catchy top 40 hit of today. Same as "She Loves Me". I don't get it.

I guess Joplin was just SO different to her contemporaries that this is the reason she stood out. I guess sort of like Amy who was also an innovator of style in her era.

As far as Hendrix... I guess those who know (really know about guitar instrument) are truly impressed, and the uninformed like myself just feed into the hype. Because I can't tell what of Hendrix is unearthy and awesome, vs the ordinary. So I can't form an honest opinion.

I really like Stevie Ray Vaughn, and although I don't like the blues... I could listen to Stevie Ray all night.

And of course I get the "he is no Hendrix"all the time so I just wondered if Hendrix is really all that. Because I guess his style of music (rock) really doesn't appeal to me, so I can't truly appreciate his music.'=

I know there are some serious music connesiuers here on the Org and thought it was time I get a little music education.

...I swear, as a band the Beatles had like maybe three or four songs, tops, that are worthy of all the hoopla and praise they get ("Eleanor Rigby"; "Long and Winding Road"; "Don't Let Me Down" and "Strawberry Fields Forever"). Solo, the only good thing Lennon did was "Imagine", and honestly right now I can't think of anything McCartney did solo that warrants the adoration he gets. Dylan can't sing and his songs are boring - I've heard way better protest music and music about world issues, from other artists (Stevie Wonder immediately comes to mind); I feel like he gets praise that he doesn't deserve at all because he essentially sounds like an old drunk man slurring words into a mic and calling it singing...

Joplin wasn't really an innovator to me in any respects - plenty of singers whooped and hollered long before her, and managed to do it in tune and actually sound good; and plenty of people were rocking hippie-gear back then. She wasn't a trailblazer, and she just wasn't all that talented; which, I always feel really guilty about saying because as I've said before, it's something about her personality that I really like; I bet if I had been around back then and we ever crossed paths, we'd have been lifelong buddies. But it's just the truth.

I have *one* Hendrix disc, and it's pretty much his greatest hits. I didn't get people's fascination with him either other than his image (which was/is pretty fucking cool), until I read and watched some things and realized that most of the stuff rock guitarists do now, he invented it. He basically created modern rock guitar playing in a sense. That alone makes his universal adoration, justified imo. I couldn't deny his bad-assedness even if I wanted to. Which, I don't because I quite like "Voodoo Child (Slight Return)" and "Little Wing".

What about Helter Skelter? They practically invented Metal with that song! I think it's a classic.

Janis Joplin...I've never understood her appeal... there were MANY female stars before her, and her rock sounds like any other roots rock/blues rock band of the era. Her voice is nothing xtraordinary either. Her lack of real hits is annoying/disappointing

prodigalfan said:

Jimmy Hendrix and Janis Joplin are undeniably a musical heroes to many.

There are musical heroes of today. For instance Madonna and Michael Jackson are contemporary musical heroes. But there are many detractors. And we have healthy debates about their talent or lack of talent.

I'm curious... are there ANY people who think Jimmy Hendrix or Janis Joplin were average? If there are, do they risk life and limb to declare that?

It seems to me these 2 and others... like John Lennon have taken on god-like status. And to criticize or question their talent is equivalent to blasmephy.

And the next question is, if you think they were over rated, explain why?

Disclaimer: I am only casual listener of these musicians... so my question in no way gives an opinion on the subject.

I'm asking because I am thinking about youtubing my way through their catalogues to experience new music and I wonder if these 3 are worth the effort, or did they take on muscial god-like status because they died during their heyday.

I have wondered this for days since reading the Amy Winehouse thread where people were totally dismissing her "genius" status, and I just wondered, why no one ever challenges these aforementioned "musical genuis" status.

I blame rock writers for that mess, and I blame the passive readers for following suit and repeating what they write like parrots.

But to answer your question, it took me years to appreciate the Beatles and when I did, I became smitten with the Rubber Soul-Let It Be period, it seemed left field to me in comparison to the music scene back then, at least from a mainstream view.

I was indifferent to Jimi(and most guitarists simply because I'm partial to keyboardists than anybody else, and when it comes to guitar, I was only partial to the rhythm playing or the Charlie Christian/Jazz type of thing) until I saw/heard his live performance of "Wild Thing" from Monterey, I felt it, whatever it is, I felt it. I'm still not that fond of his singing, but where he lacked in his voice, he sure compensated in his playing, and again, like Mr.Neal's thread regarding "music vs genre fan" thread, it took abit of open mindedness from my part to fully appreciate his music.

Janis? I still don't see the big deal, and while we're at it, I still don't consider Kurt Cobain a "genius" either, regardless of what these rock writers are swearing by.

[Edited 7/29/11 7:44am]

armpit said:

...I swear, as a band the Beatles had like maybe three or four songs, tops, that are worthy of all the hoopla and praise they get ("Eleanor Rigby"; "Long and Winding Road"; "Don't Let Me Down" and "Strawberry Fields Forever"). Solo, the only good thing Lennon did was "Imagine", and honestly right now I can't think of anything McCartney did solo that warrants the adoration he gets. Dylan can't sing and his songs are boring - I've heard way better protest music and music about world issues, from other artists (Stevie Wonder immediately comes to mind); I feel like he gets praise that he doesn't deserve at all because he essentially sounds like an old drunk man slurring words into a mic and calling it singing...

Joplin wasn't really an innovator to me in any respects - plenty of singers whooped and hollered long before her, and managed to do it in tune and actually sound good; and plenty of people were rocking hippie-gear back then. She wasn't a trailblazer, and she just wasn't all that talented; which, I always feel really guilty about saying because as I've said before, it's something about her personality that I really like; I bet if I had been around back then and we ever crossed paths, we'd have been lifelong buddies. But it's just the truth.

I have *one* Hendrix disc, and it's pretty much his greatest hits. I didn't get people's fascination with him either other than his image (which was/is pretty fucking cool), until I read and watched some things and realized that most of the stuff rock guitarists do now, he invented it. He basically created modern rock guitar playing in a sense. That alone makes his universal adoration, justified imo. I couldn't deny his bad-assedness even if I wanted to. Which, I don't because I quite like "Voodoo Child (Slight Return)" and "Little Wing".

Joplin: My first impression was similar to your pov here. I just thought "I must be missing something" an eye opener that others have similar opinions.

Hendrix: My DH basically said the same thing. I guess because these guitar techniques that you are speaking of, I am totally unaware even if I was watching him on video, because I don't play the instrument. Unless someone is sitting there with me and point things out, I guess I am just missing it.

I like the Beatles and some of John's solo stuff but the fact that he has basically been elevated to sainthood is annoying. The man made plenty of mediocre music (Sometime in New York City, Mind Games, Walls and Bridges).

I like Jimi too but I think the area where he could have been better is in his songwriting. As a guitarist I give him all the credit in the world for being one of, maybe the, most influential rock players ever. As a songwriter? I'm not so sure. Is he one of the best of his generation? I would have to say no, not even close.

Janis is the one that I am the least fan of but I do like some of her stuff. You could make the argument that she was a bit of a novelty, a white woman singing the blues, and maybe that has something to do with her elevated status.

I don't believe in sacred cows and think that anyone should be open to criticism. That doesn't mean that I enjoy slagging artists but I do think that fans could be a bit less defensive about their favourites as long as the conversation remains respectful.

theAudience said:

prodigalfan said:

As far as Hendrix... I guess those who know (really know about guitar instrument) are truly impressed, and the uninformed like myself just feed into the hype. Because I can't tell what of Hendrix is unearthy and awesome, vs the ordinary. So I can't form an honest opinion.

I really like Stevie Ray Vaughn, and although I don't like the blues... I could listen to Stevie Ray all night.

And of course I get the "he is no Hendrix"all the time so I just wondered if Hendrix is really all that. Because I guess his style of music (rock) really doesn't appeal to me, so I can't truly appreciate his music.'=

I know there are some serious music connesiuers here on the Org and thought it was time I get a little music education.

That's an interesting comment since SRV's playing incorporates a lot of Jimi-nastics.
IMO, SRV's style is a combination of a lot of Hendrix, Albert King, Lonnie Mack and other influences coupled with his own thing.
He certainly covered quite a few of Jimi's tunes.

In his SRV's own words...

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Did you sit down and learn to play from that first Hendrix record Jimmie brought home?

Sure! Hey, man, I remember getting my little stereo – it was one of those Airlines with the “satellite speakers.” That’s what they called them, but they were really these cardboard boxes with a long wire. I would set that up, mike that up. I had a Shure P.A. in my room – this is in my bedroom. For some of my first gigs, I’d go and rent like four Super Reverbs, and I’d have all this set up in my room. [Laughs.] Of course, the parents were at work. I would go in there and floorboard it, you know. Dress up as cool as I could and try to learn his stuff. It all went together. I would try to learn his stuff, and I did the same thing with a lot of B.B. King records. I think back and I must have really – if somebody had walked into the room, they probably would have gone, “What are you doing?!” Because I wouldn’t stop at one place – I’d go for every bit of it I could find. I remember doing it a lot with Axis: Bold as Love, even though I didn’t have the phasing deals, and I’m sure I didn’t have a lot of the sounds. But some of them I could find.

Full interview: http://jasobrecht.com/ste...i-hendrix/
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=



Music for adventurous listeners

tA

Tribal Records

Oh I know SRV was greatly influenced by Hendrix. YOu can tell even by that old hat he always wore... the one with the feather in it. I just liked SRV unassuming image... he was very casual about his talent almost like he was unaware of just how good he was or it didn't matter.... he just loved to play.

I watched a documentary on him and his band members talked about how he would play 2 or 3 shows a night... and then after the shows were over, the other band members would relax, party eat whatever... they said SRV would play for HOURS after perfomring in show for hours.

Harlepolis said:

prodigalfan said:

Jimmy Hendrix and Janis Joplin are undeniably a musical heroes to many.

There are musical heroes of today. For instance Madonna and Michael Jackson are contemporary musical heroes. But there are many detractors. And we have healthy debates about their talent or lack of talent.

I'm curious... are there ANY people who think Jimmy Hendrix or Janis Joplin were average? If there are, do they risk life and limb to declare that?

It seems to me these 2 and others... like John Lennon have taken on god-like status. And to criticize or question their talent is equivalent to blasmephy.

And the next question is, if you think they were over rated, explain why?

Disclaimer: I am only casual listener of these musicians... so my question in no way gives an opinion on the subject.

I'm asking because I am thinking about youtubing my way through their catalogues to experience new music and I wonder if these 3 are worth the effort, or did they take on muscial god-like status because they died during their heyday.

I have wondered this for days since reading the Amy Winehouse thread where people were totally dismissing her "genius" status, and I just wondered, why no one ever challenges these aforementioned "musical genuis" status.

I blame rock writers for that mess, and I blame the passive readers for following suit and repeating what they write like parrots.

But to answer your question, it took me years to appreciate the Beatles and when I did, I became smitten with the Rubber Soul-Let It Be period, it seemed left field to me in comparison to the music scene back then, at least from a mainstream view.

I was indifferent to Jimi(and most guitarists simply because I'm partial to keyboardists than anybody else, and when it comes to guitar, I was only partial to the rhythm playing or the Charlie Christian/Jazz type of thing) until I saw/heard his live performance of "Wild Thing" from Monterey, I felt it, whatever it is, I felt it. I'm still not that fond of his singing, but where he lacked in his voice, he sure compensated in his playing, and again, like Mr.Neal's thread regarding "music vs genre fan" thread, it took abit of open mindedness from my part to fully appreciate his music.

Janis? I still don't see the big deal, and while we're at it, I still don't consider Kurt Cobain a "genius" either, regardless of what these rock writers are swearing by.

[Edited 7/29/11 7:44am]

See, I still have to wonder if some died during their heyday, thereby entombing their reputation in some sort of "holy grail". Like if Jimi Hendrix had lived as long as James Brown, would he still be regarded as highly as he is today.

prodigalfan said:

theAudience said:

I'm speaking on the subject of Jimi Hendrix only.
It's one thing to not like his music. That is a subjective opinion.
It's totally another to deny that he was a musical innovator who totally expanded the lexicon of electric guitar playing.
That is simply being ignorant of the facts.



Music for adventurous listeners

tA

Tribal Records

Are you referring to the well known facts that he was left handed so his strings were strung backward so therefore his sound was totally unique?

Hubby just flipped out on performance where Hendrix while playing a song, adjusted his strings to get the note to sound the way he thought it should sound, while playing the song.

I guess this is hard to to... most people will stop playing song, make adjustment then go on with song. Hendrix made adjustment during song and never missed a note.

Like I said, I am casual listener so I dunno. Are these things really that unique and evidence of genius?

it's actually easy to do

btw his guitar was off key half the time

prodigalfan said:

Harlepolis said:

I blame rock writers for that mess, and I blame the passive readers for following suit and repeating what they write like parrots.

But to answer your question, it took me years to appreciate the Beatles and when I did, I became smitten with the Rubber Soul-Let It Be period, it seemed left field to me in comparison to the music scene back then, at least from a mainstream view.

I was indifferent to Jimi(and most guitarists simply because I'm partial to keyboardists than anybody else, and when it comes to guitar, I was only partial to the rhythm playing or the Charlie Christian/Jazz type of thing) until I saw/heard his live performance of "Wild Thing" from Monterey, I felt it, whatever it is, I felt it. I'm still not that fond of his singing, but where he lacked in his voice, he sure compensated in his playing, and again, like Mr.Neal's thread regarding "music vs genre fan" thread, it took abit of open mindedness from my part to fully appreciate his music.

Janis? I still don't see the big deal, and while we're at it, I still don't consider Kurt Cobain a "genius" either, regardless of what these rock writers are swearing by.

[Edited 7/29/11 7:44am]

See, I still have to wonder if some died during their heyday, thereby entombing their reputation in some sort of "holy grail". Like if Jimi Hendrix had lived as long as James Brown, would he still be regarded as highly as he is today.

Jimi? Yep. Kurt? I don't know. To me, what Jimi already left during his lifetime resonates with me on a personal level, what Kurt left though, doesn't.

There's something amazing when talking about Hendrix, Joplin, Lennon, etc. Don't know what it is but I love it. Same with Jim Morrison/The Doors and even Cobain/Nirvana. Some folks don't get it but that's okay, I don't think neither one could be understood anyways. Maybe it's not just some people's cup of tea...as I'm seeing here.

^^^

Believe me, I get it, I just don't feel the same way folks feel about Kurt/Janis. Its really that simple.

Harlepolis said:

^^^

Believe me, I get it, I just don't feel the same way folks feel about Kurt/Janis. Its really that simple.

I know lol it's all good.

What artist or genre of music you like or don't is your choice and don't be intimated not to say so. Those who take exception, they'll give over it.

I definitely object to the hurd mentality, just because a large majority sing the praises of an artist

everyone should feel the same way, music is such a personal thing. However, I agree with Neal's point of view personal preference aside, some artist/musicians impact as an innovator can't be denied; Jimi Hendrix was one of those artist....

=========================

[Edited 7/31/11 9:42am]

Wow, JH is a guitar giant for a reason. Overrated?

Jimi was a prophet, I believe. To say he was a great guitarist (of which there are many) just doesn't do his mastery and arc justice to me. I mean, dang, the thumbs alone enabled him to pull off stuff that other cats just couldn't -- and in many cases, probably still can't -- duplicate at the time.

Jimi redefined so much of the instrument, in terms of approach, tone, exploration of effects and expansion of concepts that this thread is analogous to asking whether Henry Ford is overrated in the auto industry.

He had a knack for combining the fetching with the ungainly. His playing was incredibly beautiful at times, and raw and out-of-tune at others (often! ha!) -- and he was doing things that revolutionized the instrument. I mean, he was just heads and shoulders above his peers. I talk to people who witnessed him and they are pretty universal in their regard for him being an incomparable player. His playing drew crowds for a reason. He confounded other guitarists. And, skills aside, he was an incredible showman.

We have the benefit now of decades of Hendrix disciples (including Prince) who have studied his craft. Industries within the guitar world are devoted to recreating his sound.

No doubt, you knew a thread like this would bring out both the nonplussed detractors and the indignant apologists. That said, I applaud your courage for expressing your opinion.

[Edited 7/30/11 6:18am]

Hendrix definitely was a prophet. I'm sorry, he just was.

ThreadBare said:

Wow, JH is a guitar giant for a reason. Overrated?

Jimi was a prophet, I believe. To say he was a great guitarist (of which there are many) just doesn't do his mastery and arc justice to me. I mean, dang, the thumbs alone enabled him to pull off stuff that other cats just couldn't -- and in many cases, probably still can't -- duplicate at the time.

Jimi redefined so much of the instrument, in terms of approach, tone, exploration of effects and expansion of concepts that this thread is analogous to asking whether Henry Ford is overrated in the auto industry.

He had a knack for combining the fetching with the ungainly. His playing was incredibly beautiful at times, and raw and out-of-tune at others (often! ha!) -- and he was doing things that revolutionized the instrument. I mean, he was just heads and shoulders above his peers. I talk to people who witnessed him and they are pretty universal in their regard for him being an incomparable player. His playing drew crowds for a reason. He confounded other guitarists. And, skills aside, he was an incredible showman.

We have the benefit now of decades of Hendrix disciples (including Prince) who have studied his craft. Industries within the guitar world are devoted to recreating his sound.

No doubt, you knew a thread like this would bring out both the nonplussed detractors and the indignant apologists. That said, I applaud your courage for expressing your opinion.

[Edited 7/30/11 6:18am]

This response is exactly what I was talking about. Your indignation that anyone would even think to ask the question is exactly my point. At some point indignation beats out the truth if people are not strong enough or brave enough .... or for that matter naive enough to ask.

I guess I am just wondering why a person can't ask, and instead of expressing indignation, just bring-it-on. Give reasons why the thread is ludicrous... not just state your opinion as a fact.

Now you mentioned the thumbs..... what about Hendrix's thumbs? Describe what he did with his thumbs that made his style and sound so revolutionary.

And about Henry Ford and the auto industry. I guess I can blame this on my hood/nerd DH. He is nerdy enough to search things out... and hood enough to "call em like he sees them".

I have been told that Henry Ford revolutionize mass production. He found a product already built and running and merely changed (some say cheapened) the production. I have heard that it was really German engineers that created the automobile and the gas combustion engine.

See? Ford is another one of those "heroes". To question his legacy has become so taboo, that the people who actually had the talent, and foresight are lost in the hype.

That is the purpose of this thread. To uncover hidden talent or hidden mediocracy.

So far, the consenses are Hendrix was all that and a bag of chips. Joplin... not so much but she could grabbed your emotions.

Oh and thanks for your reply. I am checking out things on Hendrix to get a better understanding of his awesomeness.

EDIT*************************

I just googled about Hendrix and thumbs and found a youtube video about the thumb cord techinque. Is this what you are talking about? And was Hendrix the first one to do it with mass attention.

(I won't even go into the whole "who invented the technique) because chances are the inventor is someone obscure and never got recognition.... and it would be impossible to prove. So not my question at all.

[Edited 7/30/11 14:34pm]

There is an element of my original question that some are just skipping over. That is are these people considered heroes because they died at their heydey and not because they are all that.

Hendrix someone did address that issue and has presented reasons why that is his opinion.

That same Orger also said he believed that Cobain was placed in the stratosphere for that very reason... died tragically during his heyday.

What about the others?

Why can I mention Stevie Wonder, SRV, Madonna, MJ, Prince and people can come up with compelling and valid points of view.

Mention Dylan, Hendrix, the Doors man, Joplin, Marley, Lennon, Cobain and others (help me out here )

that their names are mentioned, adulation is piled on... and no one I mean no one says a word otherwise.

Is that because Nirvana and Cobain was just that much better than say Pearl Jam?

Is that because Lennon as a song writer was just that much better than say Wonder?

Or are people chicken or don't feel like being bothered by the stans?

prodigalfan said:

ThreadBare said:

Wow, JH is a guitar giant for a reason. Overrated?

Jimi was a prophet, I believe. To say he was a great guitarist (of which there are many) just doesn't do his mastery and arc justice to me. I mean, dang, the thumbs alone enabled him to pull off stuff that other cats just couldn't -- and in many cases, probably still can't -- duplicate at the time.

Jimi redefined so much of the instrument, in terms of approach, tone, exploration of effects and expansion of concepts that this thread is analogous to asking whether Henry Ford is overrated in the auto industry.

He had a knack for combining the fetching with the ungainly. His playing was incredibly beautiful at times, and raw and out-of-tune at others (often! ha!) -- and he was doing things that revolutionized the instrument. I mean, he was just heads and shoulders above his peers. I talk to people who witnessed him and they are pretty universal in their regard for him being an incomparable player. His playing drew crowds for a reason. He confounded other guitarists. And, skills aside, he was an incredible showman.

We have the benefit now of decades of Hendrix disciples (including Prince) who have studied his craft. Industries within the guitar world are devoted to recreating his sound.

No doubt, you knew a thread like this would bring out both the nonplussed detractors and the indignant apologists. That said, I applaud your courage for expressing your opinion.

[Edited 7/30/11 6:18am]

This response is exactly what I was talking about. Your indignation that anyone would even think to ask the question is exactly my point. At some point indignation beats out the truth if people are not strong enough or brave enough .... or for that matter naive enough to ask.

I guess I am just wondering why a person can't ask, and instead of expressing indignation, just bring-it-on. Give reasons why the thread is ludicrous... not just state your opinion as a fact.

Now you mentioned the thumbs..... what about Hendrix's thumbs? Describe what he did with his thumbs that made his style and sound so revolutionary.

And about Henry Ford and the auto industry. I guess I can blame this on my hood/nerd DH. He is nerdy enough to search things out... and hood enough to "call em like he sees them".

I have been told that Henry Ford revolutionize mass production. He found a product already built and running and merely changed (some say cheapened) the production. I have heard that it was really German engineers that created the automobile and the gas combustion engine.

See? Ford is another one of those "heroes". To question his legacy has become so taboo, that the people who actually had the talent, and foresight are lost in the hype.

That is the purpose of this thread. To uncover hidden talent or hidden mediocracy.

So far, the consenses are Hendrix was all that and a bag of chips. Joplin... not so much but she could grabbed your emotions.

Oh and thanks for your reply. I am checking out things on Hendrix to get a better understanding of his awesomeness.

EDIT*************************

I just googled about Hendrix and thumbs and found a youtube video about the thumb cord techinque. Is this what you are talking about? And was Hendrix the first one to do it with mass attention.

(I won't even go into the whole "who invented the technique) because chances are the inventor is someone obscure and never got recognition.... and it would be impossible to prove. So not my question at all.

[Edited 7/30/11 14:34pm]

1) I made my own edit and inadvertently deleted my remark that you're definitely entitled to your opinion. You have every right to question the praise heaped on whomever you please.

2) Hendrix was born with extra-long thumbs that enabled him to more fully bar the neck. This technique you mention enabled him to do other things with his chording fingers and strenghtened his simultaneous rhythm and lead technique.

3) I mention Ford as an analogy because his production technique revolutionized the auto industry. In the same way, Hendrix didn't invent the guitar, but his performance and production techniques helped shape rock and pop for decades to come.

ThreadBare said:

prodigalfan said:

This response is exactly what I was talking about. Your indignation that anyone would even think to ask the question is exactly my point. At some point indignation beats out the truth if people are not strong enough or brave enough .... or for that matter naive enough to ask.

I guess I am just wondering why a person can't ask, and instead of expressing indignation, just bring-it-on. Give reasons why the thread is ludicrous... not just state your opinion as a fact.

Now you mentioned the thumbs..... what about Hendrix's thumbs? Describe what he did with his thumbs that made his style and sound so revolutionary.

And about Henry Ford and the auto industry. I guess I can blame this on my hood/nerd DH. He is nerdy enough to search things out... and hood enough to "call em like he sees them".

I have been told that Henry Ford revolutionize mass production. He found a product already built and running and merely changed (some say cheapened) the production. I have heard that it was really German engineers that created the automobile and the gas combustion engine.

See? Ford is another one of those "heroes". To question his legacy has become so taboo, that the people who actually had the talent, and foresight are lost in the hype.

That is the purpose of this thread. To uncover hidden talent or hidden mediocracy.

So far, the consenses are Hendrix was all that and a bag of chips. Joplin... not so much but she could grabbed your emotions.

Oh and thanks for your reply. I am checking out things on Hendrix to get a better understanding of his awesomeness.

EDIT*************************

I just googled about Hendrix and thumbs and found a youtube video about the thumb cord techinque. Is this what you are talking about? And was Hendrix the first one to do it with mass attention.

(I won't even go into the whole "who invented the technique) because chances are the inventor is someone obscure and never got recognition.... and it would be impossible to prove. So not my question at all.

[Edited 7/30/11 14:34pm]

1) I made my own edit and inadvertently deleted my remark that you're definitely entitled to your opinion. You have every right to question the praise heaped on whomever you please.

2) Hendrix was born with extra-long thumbs that enabled him to more fully bar the neck. This technique you mention enabled him to do other things with his chording fingers and strenghtened his simultaneous rhythm and lead technique.

3) I mention Ford as an analogy because his production technique revolutionized the auto industry. In the same way, Hendrix didn't invent the guitar, but his performance and production techniques helped shape rock and pop for decades to come.

Thanks for the explanation about the thumbs. I want to learn more about this techinque, how it changed the sound of the guitar and just how widespread is this techinique used.

So in other words, Hendrix did the same thing to music that Wilt Chamberlain did to basketball.

Okay, I get it about Hendrix. I have already started youtubing through his catalogue.

And excellent point about Henry Ford. I will use this same philosophy with my dh went he starts all the blabbing about how great german inventors were.

I don't care for what I've heard from Hendrix, but Janis is one of my all time favourite singers...I try to avoid her sometimes though, coz she pulls my heart strings

[img:$uid]http://www.angelicmusic.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/janis-joplin.jpg[/img:$uid]