The other thread got too long ............ Continuing with a new one.

Previous thread http://prince.org/msg/8/362236

Please use this thread to discuss everything and anything MJ.

Any created threads will automatically get the and be directed to this sticky.

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First bitches!!!

TylerHippie said:

First bitches!!!

^^^^^^

Without the sex scandals, how do you think MJ's career would've gone?

Think about how different "HIStory" would've been minus all of that controversy he dealt with. Would he have released more music than he did? Heck, do you think he would still be alive right now if those cases wouldn't have happen?

Please, let's discuss this.....

To me, it was a non-issue because I knew the truth from Day 1 - and that is, that he was completely innocent.

Of course his career would have been different, but not necessarily much so. Not all of the anger was about that, because MJ was continually getting accused of bullshit charges (albeit much lesser ones) - the people claiming he stole songs, or this that and the other. All that bullshit. And of course, he still would have had the issues with Sony.

Do I think he would still have been alive - probably, yes. The stress of those kind of charges led to more reclusive behaviour, the travelling around the world, and the focus being on everything but his career, which meant that by the time he WAS ready to do something else.... it had to be something as ridiculously huge scale as "This is It" - you know, I don't think you can just not tour and be largely out of the public eye for nearly a decade and then come back and do something grandiose. He should have started with ONE show - televised, pay per view, sold the rights to the biggest seller, kinda deal, maybe launch a single at the same time, and then go from there. Do that kind of thing, maybe another one-off show 6-8 months later, and THEN make the plans for a tour.

Militant said:

To me, it was a non-issue because I knew the truth from Day 1 - and that is, that he was completely innocent.

Of course his career would have been different, but not necessarily much so. Not all of the anger was about that, because MJ was continually getting accused of bullshit charges (albeit much lesser ones) - the people claiming he stole songs, or this that and the other. All that bullshit. And of course, he still would have had the issues with Sony.

Do I think he would still have been alive - probably, yes. The stress of those kind of charges led to more reclusive behaviour, the travelling around the world, and the focus being on everything but his career, which meant that by the time he WAS ready to do something else.... it had to be something as ridiculously huge scale as "This is It" - you know, I don't think you can just not tour and be largely out of the public eye for nearly a decade and then come back and do something grandiose. He should have started with ONE show - televised, pay per view, sold the rights to the biggest seller, kinda deal, maybe launch a single at the same time, and then go from there. Do that kind of thing, maybe another one-off show 6-8 months later, and THEN make the plans for a tour.

I think he was innocent too, but to say it's a "non-issue" is not true. I totally believe things would have went different....

TylerHippie said:

First bitches!!!

LOL! Hey...at least I made it onto the first page for once!

HatrinaHaterwitz said:

TylerHippie said:

First bitches!!!

LOL! Hey...at least I made it onto the first page for once!

Right On.

Tittypants said:

Militant said:

To me, it was a non-issue because I knew the truth from Day 1 - and that is, that he was completely innocent.

Of course his career would have been different, but not necessarily much so. Not all of the anger was about that, because MJ was continually getting accused of bullshit charges (albeit much lesser ones) - the people claiming he stole songs, or this that and the other. All that bullshit. And of course, he still would have had the issues with Sony.

Do I think he would still have been alive - probably, yes. The stress of those kind of charges led to more reclusive behaviour, the travelling around the world, and the focus being on everything but his career, which meant that by the time he WAS ready to do something else.... it had to be something as ridiculously huge scale as "This is It" - you know, I don't think you can just not tour and be largely out of the public eye for nearly a decade and then come back and do something grandiose. He should have started with ONE show - televised, pay per view, sold the rights to the biggest seller, kinda deal, maybe launch a single at the same time, and then go from there. Do that kind of thing, maybe another one-off show 6-8 months later, and THEN make the plans for a tour.

I think he was innocent too, but to say it's a "non-issue" is not true. I totally believe things would have went different....

I mean personally (Hence the preface, To me, in the original post).

Like, I never freaked out or worried that he might go to jail or anything like that. And I don't think the musical path he travelled down would have been THAT different either.

Militant said:

To me, it was a non-issue because I knew the truth from Day 1 - and that is, that he was completely innocent.

Of course his career would have been different, but not necessarily much so. Not all of the anger was about that, because MJ was continually getting accused of bullshit charges (albeit much lesser ones) - the people claiming he stole songs, or this that and the other. All that bullshit. And of course, he still would have had the issues with Sony.

Do I think he would still have been alive - probably, yes. The stress of those kind of charges led to more reclusive behaviour, the travelling around the world, and the focus being on everything but his career, which meant that by the time he WAS ready to do something else.... it had to be something as ridiculously huge scale as "This is It" - you know, I don't think you can just not tour and be largely out of the public eye for nearly a decade and then come back and do something grandiose. He should have started with ONE show - televised, pay per view, sold the rights to the biggest seller, kinda deal, maybe launch a single at the same time, and then go from there. Do that kind of thing, maybe another one-off show 6-8 months later, and THEN make the plans for a tour.

If he did this, I believe we'd still have MJ. At least for a little while longer

Maybe I am in the minority of this thinking but I think the world was starving for new Michael Jackson music. Even if Invincible wasn't as popular as the previous albums and even after the 2005 trial, I think with the right producers (ie: Will.I.Am) MJ was going to rule the charts.

Of course they were starving for new music from him. A critic said it best before HIStory that the media don't like michael jackson, the general public and music buying public loves him and his sales won't be affected and this was 1995. HIStory sold well, I don't care what anyone says and he was a global smash around the world. And from 1999 to 2001 we were teased about the album coming out soon and there would be reports about who he's working with next. Even US magazine had the MJ and Prince duet rumor coming back in 2001.

Militant: Those are interesting points you made. And I didn't think of this earlier, but also spending millions on music videos like $7 million for Scream and $4 million for YRMW out of his own pocket. Someone I know once suggested that it's possible maybe he was bipolar, I'm not so sure I believe that though. I just think he needed to get away from America cause it was killing his spirit and he could afford to take time out, plus no one else famous got criticized for it the way he was. And I think there might have been a tour after the 30th anniversary concert, but he didn't want to do it.

[Edited 7/28/11 9:09am]

I know this isn't mike...and im not really into impersonators...but dude here totally NAILED the differences of dancing style through the eras.

The interview was funny as hell for some reason lol

at the 1:35 mark

Lol @ the answer to the plastic surgery question wtf! " when he spin...he spin...ALOT!"

- 10points for the bow hair pin

[Edited 7/28/11 9:52am]

^^ Ive always liked him. He seemed cool and supported Michael over the years.

alphastreet said:

Of course they were starving for new music from him. A critic said it best before HIStory that the media don't like michael jackson, the general public and music buying public loves him and his sales won't be affected and this was 1995. HIStory sold well, I don't care what anyone says and he was a global smash around the world. And from 1999 to 2001 we were teased about the album coming out soon and there would be reports about who he's working with next. Even US magazine had the MJ and Prince duet rumor coming back in 2001.

Militant: Those are interesting points you made. And I didn't think of this earlier, but also spending millions on music videos like $7 million for Scream and $4 million for YRMW out of his own pocket. Someone I know once suggested that it's possible maybe he was bipolar, I'm not so sure I believe that though. I just think he needed to get away from America cause it was killing his spirit and he could afford to take time out, plus no one else famous got criticized for it the way he was. And I think there might have been a tour after the 30th anniversary concert, but he didn't want to do it.

[Edited 7/28/11 9:09am]

Ive always felt that way as well which is why now in his death it seems like a big ass conspiracy to tarnish the man in how he passed.. its sad. In all of this madness even when he was alive... the world STILL loved him.

His sales in general weren't affected by his so-called "scandals". Look at his sales around 2003-2005 for instance during all that madness. It definitely didn't affect him in '95.

Yeah, even though I would meet MJ haters for years, I knew SO MANY people who jammed to his music too, and some of them were even big fans with a bigger collection than mine, and this is 1995 and after. I have memories of middle school and all of us playing MJ old and new in addition to the current r&b and hip hop and I barely heard anything bad about him. In high school it was a mix though, but then I met people who didn't go to my school who all loved him and appreciated him, at a point where I really started to believe no one cared for him cause things were too quiet. But time and time again I was proven wrong there's no one like him and they all know it. EVERYONE gets up when Billie Jean is played at parties, everywhere I go, that never changed. And even when the madness went on, I do remember some kids getting into him and buying number ones on DVD or CD, it was adults that were being stupid, I do remember that timmy. I think people liked michael, but society and sometimes even michael himself, whether it's his fault or not made it hard for people to admit it out loud. During the allegations if there were talent shows on campus, I danced to him to support him and that was my big middle finger to the haters who forgot what he stood for in music and pop culture.

[Edited 7/28/11 11:02am]

E Cass looks convincing and I liked him since I first learned of him in 2001 or so, but I was laughing at this clip, it's like he was on some speed or something when doing the moves and talking, though good moves!

Timmy84 said:

His sales in general weren't affected by his so-called "scandals". Look at his sales around 2003-2005 for instance during all that madness. It definitely didn't affect him in '95.

I remember here in the UK when Scream, being History's lead single, was expected to top the charts but stalled at #3, DJ Chris Evans was ripping into Mike about how his career was finished and that he was a has-been, skin bleaching freak.

Following that episode Mike's next two singles and History went to number 1. Yeah, 1995 was good.

Cloudbuster said:

Timmy84 said:

His sales in general weren't affected by his so-called "scandals". Look at his sales around 2003-2005 for instance during all that madness. It definitely didn't affect him in '95.

I remember here in the UK when Scream, being History's lead single, was expected to top the charts but stalled at #3, DJ Chris Evans was ripping into Mike about how his career was finished and that he was a has-been, skin bleaching freak.

Following that episode Mike's next two singles and History went to number 1. Yeah, 1995 was good.

That's what that DJ gets. He couldn't talk shit after that.

Scream peaked at #5 on the Billboard charts and I'm pretty sure it was top 5 on the Canadian charts from what I recall that summer, possibly top 3. I remember some little blurb in the paper saying that the single fell down the charts, but I was innocently thinking it was just reporting that it's finished it's run and not realizing they were being mean to him, I was oblivious of MJ media treatment cause I was miracuously unaware of how the media treated MJ cause I was young and kept from all that. I was more into my kid stuff and if I knew music, it was what was in front of me and what I came across, I didn't know of any celebrity news unless I heard it by fluke, and it wasn't that often. I knew of real news.

Timmy84 said:

That's what that DJ gets. He couldn't talk shit after that.

Sadly he just found other ways to talk shit about him. Not that it mattered, Mike's work just carried on selling.

Cloudbuster said:

Timmy84 said:

That's what that DJ gets. He couldn't talk shit after that.

Sadly he just found other ways to talk shit about him. Not that it mattered, Mike's work just carried on selling.

Right.

alphastreet said:

I knew of real news.

I'm not sure if that even exists anymore!

Timmy84 said:

Cloudbuster said:

Sadly he just found other ways to talk shit about him. Not that it mattered, Mike's work just carried on selling.

Right.

And you have to wonder if that's why some folk hated him so much, 'cos dude never really had a flop album as an adult.

Even his so-called "flops" sold millions and that must have irked those who just wanted him gone.

Cloudbuster said:

Timmy84 said:

Right.

And you have to wonder if that's why some folk hated him so much, 'cos dude never really had a flop album as an adult.

Even his so-called "flops" sold millions and that must have irked those who just wanted him gone.

Exactly. That's why all those flop stories that came after "Invincible" were ridiculous.

Cloudbuster said:

Timmy84 said:

Right.

And you have to wonder if that's why some folk hated him so much, 'cos dude never really had a flop album as an adult.

Even his so-called "flops" sold millions and that must have irked those who just wanted him gone.

[img:$uid]http://i903.photobucket.com/albums/ac231/mjscarousal/BillieJean-2.gif[/img:$uid]

Timmy84 said:

Cloudbuster said:

And you have to wonder if that's why some folk hated him so much, 'cos dude never really had a flop album as an adult.

Even his so-called "flops" sold millions and that must have irked those who just wanted him gone.

Exactly. That's why all those flop stories that came after "Invincible" were ridiculous.

When is a number 1 album considered a flop? When it's a Michael Jackson album.

mjscarousal said:

Cloudbuster said:

And you have to wonder if that's why some folk hated him so much, 'cos dude never really had a flop album as an adult.

Even his so-called "flops" sold millions and that must have irked those who just wanted him gone.

[img:$uid]http://i903.photobucket.com/albums/ac231/mjscarousal/BillieJean-2.gif[/img:$uid]

mjscarousal said:

[img:$uid]http://i903.photobucket.com/albums/ac231/mjscarousal/BillieJean-2.gif[/img:$uid]

LOL.

mjscarousal said:

Cloudbuster said:

And you have to wonder if that's why some folk hated him so much, 'cos dude never really had a flop album as an adult.

Even his so-called "flops" sold millions and that must have irked those who just wanted him gone.

[img:$uid]http://i903.photobucket.com/albums/ac231/mjscarousal/BillieJean-2.gif[/img:$uid]

Great one!