NDRU said:

I think both statements are true, though. An addict won't be able to quit until they are ready, but I also believe an addict can become ready with the reminders from those they love of the truth that these addicts already know within themselves, but are just afraid to face.

Addicts tend to surround themselves with other addicts because they don't remind them that they are killing themselves. They enable and in turn are enabled, without the nasty reminders. If others enable you too, there is almost no hope for a person.

Yeah! I think so too!

PatrickS77 said:

TonyVanDam said:

The irony of Nikki's statement is that he actually did died of a heroin overdose and was then successfully brought back to life within a minute later.

Where exactly is the irony in his statement? If somebody knows that drugs suck it's him. Maybe Winehouse fate is a lesson to some.

Here is another comment from him:

Said Nikki: "I don't know the inner workings of that immediate family — meaning, her managers and record company — and her immediate immediate family — mother and father, if she had brothers and sisters — and I don't know her band. In all the societies that we have, we have enablers, and these enablers will allow someone like myself who was a drug addict to keep using rather than face the possibility of getting fired or pushed to the side. And they just don't want to upset the apple cart, and what happens is people die. In my situation, that's happened to me. I had so many close calls that I look back on it, why did nobody step up and say , 'You know what?! If you keep using drugs, we're not gonna release your records. If you keep using drugs, we're not gonna book your tours.' etc. etc. I don't know in her world, I don't know what her struggles were on that level. I know on an addiction level, heroin, alcohol, coke, pills… it's the same. Until you make up your mind that you wanna quit, there's no amount of people around you that are gonna get you to quit. I don't really know the story behind it except that it's sad. She was a very talented young person that had a lot to give. And unfortunately, as cold as this may sound, some have to die so that the rest of us can live."

http://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?mode=Article&newsitemID=161096

Even after he was brought back to life, Nikki didn't stop doing heroin straight away. The entire Motley Crue as a band had to be forced by their management & their record label at the time to go to rehab.

SCNDLS was right somewhat for saying that some artists have no room to negatively criticize Amy.

Serena said:

powersoul99 said:

Not a debate, just a fact that she only did 2 albums and the last one was 5 years ago.

Not very good really for someone that people think is so good?

Look, if you don't like or appreciate her amazing talent, you've said your piece so just move the fuck on and leave this thread alone.

I will move on as you say.

But im not sure what talent you are talking about?

Was it the talent of 2 albums over a career of more than 10 years?

Or the talent of taking drugs?

There are many talented people all around the world that die every day, it's p-ainful that anyone dies, but that is life and it's upto the person how they live their life.

Sadly she didnt do too well on that.

TonyVanDam said:

PatrickS77 said:

Where exactly is the irony in his statement? If somebody knows that drugs suck it's him. Maybe Winehouse fate is a lesson to some.

Here is another comment from him:

Said Nikki: "I don't know the inner workings of that immediate family — meaning, her managers and record company — and her immediate immediate family — mother and father, if she had brothers and sisters — and I don't know her band. In all the societies that we have, we have enablers, and these enablers will allow someone like myself who was a drug addict to keep using rather than face the possibility of getting fired or pushed to the side. And they just don't want to upset the apple cart, and what happens is people die. In my situation, that's happened to me. I had so many close calls that I look back on it, why did nobody step up and say , 'You know what?! If you keep using drugs, we're not gonna release your records. If you keep using drugs, we're not gonna book your tours.' etc. etc. I don't know in her world, I don't know what her struggles were on that level. I know on an addiction level, heroin, alcohol, coke, pills… it's the same. Until you make up your mind that you wanna quit, there's no amount of people around you that are gonna get you to quit. I don't really know the story behind it except that it's sad. She was a very talented young person that had a lot to give. And unfortunately, as cold as this may sound, some have to die so that the rest of us can live."

http://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?mode=Article&newsitemID=161096

Even after he was brought back to life, Nikki didn't stop doing heroin straight away. The entire Motley Crue as a band had to be forced by their management & their record label at the time to go to rehab.

SCNDLS was right somewhat for saying that some artists have no room to negatively criticize Amy.

Where is the negativity?? Did he say anything negative about Winehouse?? What he said was spot on! And he did get away from heroin eventually! So he knows what he's talking about! I prefer what he has to say over all the fake twitter messages those celebrities think they have to make. Each one of them sounds more insincere than the other.

That's all.

TonyVanDam said:

Mindflux said:

Oh and, by the way, what Tony Van Dam wrote was partly bollocks. He's right about some of the reasons that people may start to take drugs, but the rest is entirely wrong. Particularly this;

"Drug users are always trying to escape the realities of their lives, plain and simple. Instead of being real men/real women by owning up to their responsibilities of their realities, then choose to take drugs as a mean to escape from those responsibilities."

That is utter shite - it can be true, but not always - you can't generalise about these things.

I happen to take drugs to enhance certain things. I've been taking drugs for over 20 years - all in moderation and in control. The other musicians I work with have been the same. I'm not escaping the reality of my life - the reality of my life is exactly what I want it to be. I'm very happy - I do the job I love, I pay all my taxes, I have a family, I don't steal, I'm not escaping from anything. I simply use drugs to achieve certain effects and insights and then express that with my music or, simply, just have a laugh with my mates.

Rhetoric of Tony's kind comes from someone with no experience and who thinks he's got it sussed - I mean, it fits the profile of what the government and media want you to believe - that people who take drugs can't handle "normal" life (whatever that is!) and are good-for-nothings who just want to escape from reality and responsibility. That will be true for a certain section of people (usually, those who are disadvantaged and live in poverty - and who wouldn't want to escape that?! However, drugs aren't really the answer to escaping problems).

I don't fit that description that Tony has offered and neither do a lot of the people I know. Its insulting and is no different to any other prejudice (assuming that a certain section of people behave in a certain way), like racism for example.

Excuse you Mindflux, but I've have been down that road a few times dealing with as well as drinking hard alcoholic beverages. Crown Royale w/ used to be my signature drink before going out to party every Saturday Night within my 20-something years. But after a bad experience of drinking liquor tube shots on top of Nighttrain that resulted in a drunking rage that could have gotten me killed, I've never mess with hard liquor ever again (I still drink an occasion wine once a year, but THAT'S it!).

And with all due respect, you have to be absolutely naive OR in total denial if you think it's not about escapism. I've seen too many cases of people taking acid & MDMA right in front of me to know damn good and well that they're taking drugs to escape from their problems & responsilbilities temporary.

If you want to believe that it isn't about escapism, when why you're not able to stop using the drugs that you have been using for the last 20+ years? If you're so in control, then why not just stop taking drugs once and for all?

I'm at a disadvantage because I don't know you at all. But I do know that you will most likely not stop using drugs because for the time being, you can't! You not "in control" like you want all of us to believe. Therefore, you need to stop being in denial of the fact that you do not know how to quit taking the drugs yet.

You don't know him but you do know . . . ?

That doesn't make sense to me.

Maybe he hasn't quit because he/she sees no need to?

How do you know it's because they 'can't?'

Why do people in general need to quit taking drugs? If they can function, why do they need to stop?

I guess you tell overweight people that obviously they don't know how to regulate their intake or they wouldn't be fat? Is it that simple?

SUPRMAN said:

TonyVanDam said:

Excuse you Mindflux, but I've have been down that road a few times dealing with as well as drinking hard alcoholic beverages. Crown Royale w/ used to be my signature drink before going out to party every Saturday Night within my 20-something years. But after a bad experience of drinking liquor tube shots on top of Nighttrain that resulted in a drunking rage that could have gotten me killed, I've never mess with hard liquor ever again (I still drink an occasion wine once a year, but THAT'S it!).

And with all due respect, you have to be absolutely naive OR in total denial if you think it's not about escapism. I've seen too many cases of people taking acid & MDMA right in front of me to know damn good and well that they're taking drugs to escape from their problems & responsilbilities temporary.

If you want to believe that it isn't about escapism, when why you're not able to stop using the drugs that you have been using for the last 20+ years? If you're so in control, then why not just stop taking drugs once and for all?

I'm at a disadvantage because I don't know you at all. But I do know that you will most likely not stop using drugs because for the time being, you can't! You not "in control" like you want all of us to believe. Therefore, you need to stop being in denial of the fact that you do not know how to quit taking the drugs yet.

You don't know him but you do know . . . ?

That doesn't make sense to me.

Maybe he hasn't quit because he/she sees no need to?

How do you know it's because they 'can't?'

Why do people in general need to quit taking drugs? If they can function, why do they need to stop?

I guess you tell overweight people that obviously they don't know how to regulate their intake or they wouldn't be fat? Is it that simple?

MidniteMagnet said:

I will respond properly when I have time because Amy is one of all-time favorites (even with her limited discography). I just wanted to say that I have a feeling she died of a heart attack brought on by years of damage from eating disorders and drugs/alcohol. I don't think she overdosed.

A lot of people think Karen Carpenter died of an eating disorder, but she didn't. She died from cardiac arrest.

I don't even care why she died. The fact that she is dead is devastating enough. I've been blown away by her voice/lyrics since I discovered her in 2006. RIP Amy.

Cardiac arrest brought on by anorexia.

TonyVanDam said:

Serena said:

Can y'all take the personal drug-use debates to GD, please? This is about AMY, NOT YOU.

Greycap asked a question and I've answered it. Just go back a few pages of this thread and see for yourselves before you called yourself playing a hero for brownie points.

No one can talk about the legecy of Amy Winehouse without meaning drugs to some extent. Remember, she died of a drug overdose.

You don't KNOW she died of a drug overdose. There is, as of yet, no official cause of death.

PatrickS77 said:

Mindflux said:

Her fate won't be a lesson, because addiction is what it is. Its not like nobody knows that there is a risk in taking drugs to start with.

Oh yes! Good that you know everyone. Good that you know that there's no hope whatsoever!

NDRU said:

I think both statements are true, though. An addict won't be able to quit until they are ready, but I also believe an addict can become ready with the reminders from those they love of the truth that these addicts already know within themselves, but are just afraid to face.

Addicts tend to surround themselves with other addicts because they don't remind them that they are killing themselves. They enable and in turn are enabled, without the nasty reminders. If others enable you too, there is almost no hope for a person.

Yeah! I think so too!

That's not what I said Patrick, you're sensationalising.

She is not the first high-profile person to, apparently (as its not been proven yet), have died from a drugs overdose. That hasn't stopped people from taking drugs, has it? In fact, drug use is on the increase, in many countries. Governments have also started putting graphic pictures on cigarrette packets to show the harm caused by smoking tobacco. But that hasn't stopped people from smoking, has it?

The point being, as I have said on numerous occasions in this thread and what was also alluded to by the quote you put up from NikkiSixx, is that it is almost ENTIRELY down to the individual. If an individual wants to take drugs, they will, regardless of what anyone else says, or whatever dangers are explained to them. Its a simple truth and is why I said that her fate won't be a lesson. Even Nikki dying didn't stop him from taking heroin straight away, such was the compulsion of his addiction.

The main thing that counts is an individual's will (and, sometimes, even that can't overcome the power of addiction). There is always hope, however. And that hope lies in the person being able to recognise when they are doing something moderately, with limited effects, or are heading towards addiction and excessive use, which results in harmful effects.

I sort of agree with NDRU - it is, of course, more useful to have people around you telling you that you have a problem. But I don't think that addicts hang around with other addicts so they're not reminded of the damage they are doing to themselves, simply because those other addicts ARE a reminder of what they are doing to themselves - its plainly visible. And its not like addicts don't know they have problems, its just the addiction compels them to carry on - sometimes, they simply aren't able to help themselves. It requires an enormous amount of will-power and, in some cases, alternative medication to beat a serious habit. And that includes smoking tobacco (reportedly as difficult to kick as a habit as heroin is).

Mindflux said:

PatrickS77 said:

Yeah! I think so too!

I sort of agree with NDRU - it is, of course, more useful to have people around you telling you that you have a problem. But I don't think that addicts hang around with other addicts so they're not reminded of the damage they are doing to themselves, simply because those other addicts ARE a reminder of what they are doing to themselves - its plainly visible. And its not like addicts don't know they have problems, its just the addiction compels them to carry on - sometimes, they simply aren't able to help themselves. It requires an enormous amount of will-power and, in some cases, alternative medication to beat a serious habit. And that includes smoking tobacco (reportedly as difficult to kick as a habit as heroin is).

yes, definitely, I just meant that addicts don't give you a hard time about doing the wrong thing, in fact they encourage it with a sense of "us against the world!" righteousness

But yes, I think every addict knows what they are doing to themselves, it's just that you can lose perspective when you are surrounded by other addicts--it looks more normal.

Mindflux said:

She is not the first high-profile person to, apparently (as its not been proven yet), have died from a drugs overdose. That hasn't stopped people from taking drugs, has it? In fact, drug use is on the increase, in many countries. Governments have also started putting graphic pictures on cigarrette packets to show the harm caused by smoking tobacco. But that hasn't stopped people from smoking, has it?

The point being, as I have said on numerous occasions in this thread and what was also alluded to by the quote you put up from NikkiSixx, is that it is almost ENTIRELY down to the individual. If an individual wants to take drugs, they will, regardless of what anyone else says, or whatever dangers are explained to them. Its a simple truth and is why I said that her fate won't be a lesson. Even Nikki dying didn't stop him from taking heroin straight away, such was the compulsion of his addiction.

Of course, the fate of celebrities won't stop drug use altogether... but maybe their deaths are a wakeup call to some of their fans (or observers). Maybe the deaths of celebrities (or friends) are just what some need to start making steps to help themselves or get treatment. You do not know whether no one ever learns a lesson from Winehouse' (and others') fate.

And even if Nikki didn't stop right away... something eventually made him stop... don't know what, as I haven't read his book (was it really his management that stepped in?), but he stopped and he is still alive and has every right to say, that drugs suck.

[Edited 7/25/11 14:44pm]

PatrickS77 said:

TonyVanDam said:

Even after he was brought back to life, Nikki didn't stop doing heroin straight away. The entire Motley Crue as a band had to be forced by their management & their record label at the time to go to rehab.

SCNDLS was right somewhat for saying that some artists have no room to negatively criticize Amy.

Where is the negativity?? Did he say anything negative about Winehouse?? What he said was spot on! And he did get away from heroin eventually! So he knows what he's talking about! I prefer what he has to say over all the fake twitter messages those celebrities think they have to make. Each one of them sounds more insincere than the other.

Exaactly, there is no negativity, Nikki died of an overdose was brought back let out of the hospital AND DID IT AGAIN THAT NIGHT! Alright so he knows and he clearly states HE DOESNT know her immediate issues, but addiction is addiction, no matter what your vice is. But then again people just want to slump into that state of "pity mourning" and thats not how to do it, yes it is sad that she is dead, talented person, but like Nikki said if you dont wannt quit your not going to quit, and she really had no one around her to be that NO person, most people were talking about a new record.

SUPRMAN said:

TonyVanDam said:

Excuse you Mindflux, but I've have been down that road a few times dealing with as well as drinking hard alcoholic beverages. Crown Royale w/ used to be my signature drink before going out to party every Saturday Night within my 20-something years. But after a bad experience of drinking liquor tube shots on top of Nighttrain that resulted in a drunking rage that could have gotten me killed, I've never mess with hard liquor ever again (I still drink an occasion wine once a year, but THAT'S it!).

And with all due respect, you have to be absolutely naive OR in total denial if you think it's not about escapism. I've seen too many cases of people taking acid & MDMA right in front of me to know damn good and well that they're taking drugs to escape from their problems & responsilbilities temporary.

If you want to believe that it isn't about escapism, when why you're not able to stop using the drugs that you have been using for the last 20+ years? If you're so in control, then why not just stop taking drugs once and for all?

I'm at a disadvantage because I don't know you at all. But I do know that you will most likely not stop using drugs because for the time being, you can't! You not "in control" like you want all of us to believe. Therefore, you need to stop being in denial of the fact that you do not know how to quit taking the drugs yet.

You don't know him but you do know . . . ?

That doesn't make sense to me.

Maybe he hasn't quit because he/she sees no need to?

How do you know it's because they 'can't?'

Why do people in general need to quit taking drugs? If they can function, why do they need to stop?

I guess you tell overweight people that obviously they don't know how to regulate their intake or they wouldn't be fat? Is it that simple?

Apples and oranges bruh particularly when you're ingesting the type of drugs

known to be fatal over time.

Quick news update of Amy Winehouse autopsy:

http://abcnews.go.com/Ent...d=14155969

Winehouse Autopsy Inconclusive; Funeral Tuesday

An autopsy on singer Amy Winehouse Monday failed to determine what killed the 27-year-old star, leaving fans and family with a weeks-long wait for the results of toxicology tests. Her funeral will be held Tuesday.

A family spokesman said the private funeral "for family and close friends" would be held at an undisclosed time and place.

Winehouse's devastated parents visited mourners outside her north London home to thank them for their support.

The singer, who had struggled with drug and alcohol abuse for years, was found dead Saturday at home by a member of her security team, who called an ambulance. It arrived too late to save her.

The Metropolitan Police said Monday that a forensic post mortem "did not establish a formal cause of death and we await the results of further toxicology tests." Those are expected to take two to four weeks.

An inquest into the singer's death was opened and adjourned at London's St. Pancras Coroner's Court. During the two-minute hearing, an official read out the name, birth date and address of Winehouse, described as "a divorced lady living at Camden Square NW1."

"She was a singer songwriter at the time of her death and was identified by her family here at St. Pancras this morning," said coroner's officer Sharon Duff.

Duff said the scene of Winehouse's death "was investigated by police and determined non-suspicious."

In Britain, inquests are held to establish the facts whenever someone dies violently or in unexplained circumstances. Assistant Deputy Coroner Suzanne Greenaway said Winehouse's inquest would resume on Oct. 26.

[img:$uid]http://i.imgur.com/7A2NO.jpg[/img:$uid]

I never saw her as being overly attractive, but there's something lovely about her here.

phunkdaddy said:

SUPRMAN said:

You don't know him but you do know . . . ?

That doesn't make sense to me.

Maybe he hasn't quit because he/she sees no need to?

How do you know it's because they 'can't?'

Why do people in general need to quit taking drugs? If they can function, why do they need to stop?

I guess you tell overweight people that obviously they don't know how to regulate their intake or they wouldn't be fat? Is it that simple?

Apples and oranges bruh particularly when you're ingesting the type of drugs

known to be fatal over time.

Overeating is fatal. It just takes longer than a drug overdose.

Overeating is also addictive behavior as strong as a drug.

Dreamer2 said:

I would hope the mods try and keep this thred focused on amy music

Yeah, we try to ask people nicely but they still want to talk about others and their problems. I just wish they'd stop and take it to GD or PM. This is not a thread about addiction, overeating and all that crap, it's about AMY WINEHOUSE.

I'd never heard this song before, it's cool and old school (audio only) - I Should Care:

Live performance with Jools Holland "Tenderly" 2006 (wish it was longer!)

I'm saddened to hear about her death just like anyone else but people are delusional

to think that this thread is going to be solely dedicated to her music when the thread is

about her death so her personal issues is going to be a topic of discussion here as well

and maybe her death can be a wake up call for others in the business or otherwise who

are facing the same issues and yes i know a cause of death is still pending.

paisleypark4 said:

SUPRMAN said:

You don't know him but you do know . . . ?

That doesn't make sense to me.

Maybe he hasn't quit because he/she sees no need to?

How do you know it's because they 'can't?'

Why do people in general need to quit taking drugs? If they can function, why do they need to stop?

I guess you tell overweight people that obviously they don't know how to regulate their intake or they wouldn't be fat? Is it that simple?

Calm down babe, they already hugged it out

Exactly. SUPRMAN is so 3 pages late in this thread!

SUPRMAN said:

TonyVanDam said:

Greycap asked a question and I've answered it. Just go back a few pages of this thread and see for yourselves before you called yourself playing a hero for brownie points.

No one can talk about the legecy of Amy Winehouse without meaning drugs to some extent. Remember, she died of a drug overdose.

You don't KNOW she died of a drug overdose. There is, as of yet, no official cause of death.

And you don't KNOW that she died of anything else but a drug overdose neither.

TonyVanDam said:

SUPRMAN said:

You don't KNOW she died of a drug overdose. There is, as of yet, no official cause of death.

And you don't KNOW that she died of anything else but a drug overdose neither.

Sure don't.

I expect drugs to be a contributing factor but not the cause, but if it was an overdose, not a surprise.

The initial police reports don't suggest it was an overdose.

phunkdaddy said:

I'm saddened to hear about her death just like anyone else but people are delusional

to think that this thread is going to be solely dedicated to her music when the thread is

about her death so her personal issues is going to be a topic of discussion here as well

and maybe her death can be a wake up call for others in the business or otherwise who

are facing the same issues and yes i know a cause of death is still pending.

THIS!!!^

phunkdaddy said:

I'm saddened to hear about her death just like anyone else but people are delusional

to think that this thread is going to be solely dedicated to her music when the thread is

about her death so her personal issues is going to be a topic of discussion here as well

and maybe her death can be a wake up call for others in the business or otherwise who

are facing the same issues and yes i know a cause of death is still pending.

It's not supposed to be for others to argue about other entertainers or posters with issues though and I doubt others 'in the business' are sitting around reading an org thread...

In Amy's words "what kind of fuckery is this?"...

Me & Mr. Jones Live - AOL

Kind of funny to watch the guys in tux's singing 'you don't mean dick...'

[Edited 7/25/11 20:03pm]

Serena said:

phunkdaddy said:

I'm saddened to hear about her death just like anyone else but people are delusional

to think that this thread is going to be solely dedicated to her music when the thread is

about her death so her personal issues is going to be a topic of discussion here as well

and maybe her death can be a wake up call for others in the business or otherwise who

are facing the same issues and yes i know a cause of death is still pending.

It's not supposed to be for others to argue about other entertainers or posters with issues though and I doubt others 'in the business' are sitting around reading an org thread...

In Amy's words "what kind of fuckery is this?"...

Me & Mr. Jones Live - AOL

Kind of funny to watch the guys in tux's singing 'you don't mean dick...'

[Edited 7/25/11 20:03pm]

Not true. There have been people in the business that have visited the org such as

Van Hunt and Bernadette Cooper. I'm not that involved in this thread to begin with but

i'll send you a news flash. You're not in position to control whether people discuss her

drug issues in this thread or not and if you think you can you're just wasting your breath.

Mahalia Jackson - The Lord's Prayer

http://www.youtube.com/wa...WpTSlQC0Dg

This is from me and my family in loving memory of Amy Winehouse. Amy Winehouse we luved you and your beautiful voice.

(i feel amy winehouse would have liked this version of The Lord's Prayer)

[Edited 7/25/11 20:45pm]

phunkdaddy said:

Serena said:

It's not supposed to be for others to argue about other entertainers or posters with issues though and I doubt others 'in the business' are sitting around reading an org thread...

In Amy's words "what kind of fuckery is this?"...

Me & Mr. Jones Live - AOL

Kind of funny to watch the guys in tux's singing 'you don't mean dick...'

[Edited 7/25/11 20:03pm]

Not true. There have been people in the business that have visited the org such as

Van Hunt and Bernadette Cooper. I'm not that involved in this thread to begin with but

i'll send you a news flash. You're not in position to control whether people discuss her

drug issues in this thread or not and if you think you can you're just wasting your breath.

I understand that, but they're not talking only about her and there are rules about staying on-topic in threads. It's just that it's cluttering up the thread, not that I'm trying to control things, but it makes it harder for those who want to discuss Amy to wade through all the other crap.