powersoul99 said:

rialb said:

Unnecessary. If you want to debate this why not use orgnotes?

Besides quality > quantity. Stanley Kubrick took his time making movies, is he overrated?

Not a debate, just a fact that she only did 2 albums and the last one was 5 years ago.

Not very good really for someone that people think is so good?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/1xtra/listen/

look if you **** want proof tune in now to Trevor Nelson show BBC 1Xtra and here the live studio session he's playing as tribute.....

Really you think Prince would do a tribute to a non-artist ....pleaszzzz .....

prodigalfan said:

Dreamer2 said:

powersoul99 said:

Not a debate, just a fact that she only did 2 albums and the last one was 5 years ago.

Not very good really for someone that people think is so good?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/1xtra/listen/

look if you **** want proof tune in now to Trevor Nelson show BBC 1Xtra and here the live studio session he's playing as tribute.....

Really you think Prince would do a tribute to a non-artist ....pleaszzzz .....

I think that sums it up, 1Xtra.

Average listner figures from the BBC 500,000 and falling.

And i did tune in and No he wasnt playing her, maybe she didnt do many studio sessions ether.

powersoul99 said:

Dreamer2 said:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/1xtra/listen/

look if you **** want proof tune in now to Trevor Nelson show BBC 1Xtra and here the live studio session he's playing as tribute.....

Really you think Prince would do a tribute to a non-artist ....pleaszzzz .....

I think that sums it up, 1Xtra.

Average listner figures from the BBC 500,000 and falling.

And i did tune in and No he wasnt playing her, maybe she didnt do many studio sessions ether.

Wow - way to display your ignorance! Just what are you trying to prove and why?

Back to Black alone was 6 x Platinum and garnered her 5 Grammys.

What has quantity got to do with anything? Its quality that counts and she had a fabulous voice, great songwriting skills and was critically lauded, particularly be her peers. The fact she hadn't released an album in the last 5 years was down to her personal problems.

Even so, its not even relevant. MJ was hardly the most prolific artist either. A handful of albums over a career that spanned decades. Would you say he wasn't any good because of that? Your argument is ridiculous - she's not just being played on 1Xtra, EVERY radio station is playing tributes to her.

Get a life and stop trying to discredit someone who had actually done something with the short time they were here.

powersoul99 said:

Dreamer2 said:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/1xtra/listen/

look if you **** want proof tune in now to Trevor Nelson show BBC 1Xtra and here the live studio session he's playing as tribute.....

Really you think Prince would do a tribute to a non-artist ....pleaszzzz .....

I think that sums it up, 1Xtra.

Average listner figures from the BBC 500,000 and falling.

And i did tune in and No he wasnt playing her, maybe she didnt do many studio sessions ether.

I think your in that sad place of "British Tabloid Media Hype" so you can't / won't understand the talent Amy had .... forget what you have read .....buy the Back to Black CD close the door, turn of the phone put the CD in and here the voice.. feel the soul...

Without question it's one of the best CD's of the last 20 years ...and that's not "Media Hype" it's fact ask any musician. Jump on to Wiki and do your research or ask yourself why Prince did the LIALG tribute to her ... Tony Bennett duet with her....and Mick Jagger or read Russell Brands blog for beginners.....

Amy lived the music, felt it, schooled herself in it .... became it ...RIP

SCNDLS said:

PatrickS77 said:

Hard Rock/Heavy Metal Community Reacts To AMY WINEHOUSE Death - July 23, 2011

Hard rock and heavy metal musicians around the world are mourning the loss of Amy Winehouse. The 27 year-old singer was found dead in her London apartment at 4:05 p.m. GMT. There's no word on the exact cause of death, but Winehouse had been struggling with drug addiction for many years. Ted Nugent: "B sure to tell ur children that Amy Winehouse suicide is insane stupid" Brian Fair (SHADOWS FALL): "Heard Amy Winehouse died today. I once ran into her in a hotel lobby in London. It was 7am. I was heading out to the airport she was just coming in like a trainwreck. She grabbed my hair and was like 'I fuckin love ur hair.' With spittle flying. I thought she was a homeless person. I brushed her off and went and washed my hair. RIP." Myles Kennedy (ALTER BRIDGE, SLASH): "It's just my opinion but Amy Winehouse was a very rare talent. So many songs left unsung. Heartbreaking news." Rikki Rockett (POISON): "Amy Winehouse - So sad. Condolences to her closest friends and family. Fame does not give you happiness. It's a shameAmy couldn't see the part that surpasses that. The part that she earned and that no tabloid could mar or any critic could ever take away." Nikki Sixx (MÖTLEY CRÜE): "Drugs suck. How much clearer does the message have to be? R.I.P. Amy Winehouse" Tommy Lee (MÖTLEY CRÜE): "Amy Winehouse died. That's a lifestyle choice. The 87 who were murdered in Oslo Norway. That's fucking tragic." Sebastian Bach (ex-SKID ROW): "Dear Amy W, it is a rough crazy business & there is nothing like being on stage. Once u feel that, nothing else compares. Your pain is gone RIP" Glenn Hughes (BLACK COUNTRY COMMUNION, DEEP PURPLE): "So sad to hear the news of Soul Sister Amy Winehouse... my heart goes out to her family...Addiction is cunning, baffling and Powerful... GH" Dave Navarro (JANE'S ADDICTION) "My God! So sad to hear about Amy Winehouse! My deepest condolences to her friends and family and fans. You will be missed Amy xoxox" Dave Mustaine (MEGADETH) "Amy Winehouse...RIP. I wish you would have said yes, yes, yes. We will miss you." Alex Skolnick (TESTAMENT) "27=too young to go. It's one thing w legends from another era. But when it happens to someone current, it's freaky, esp. if you're over 27." Billy Corgan (SMASHING PUMPKINS) "Sad to hear about Amy Winehouse. I mourn any time one of our own passes on. A tragedy...no doubt. Truly sad." Zakk Wylde (BLACK LABEL SOCIETY): "Amy Winehouse Just Passed away... She could Fn Sing.. GOD BLESS ?TBLO?" Eric Avery (ex-JANE'S ADDICTION) "Another tragedy. The spectacular demise of a very talented woman is finished. Amy Winehouse found dead in her London flat."

http://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?mode=Article&newsitemID=161052

SOME of these muthafuckas need to shut the hell up considering what THEIR asses were doing at 27, and 37, and some of them right now. It's just a luck of the draw that they didn't end up the SAME way. People and their opportunistic self-righteousness and judgment are a fucking trip.

[Edited 7/24/11 7:20am]

The irony of Nikki's statement is that he actually did died of a heroin overdose and was then successfully brought back to life within a minute later.

prodigalfan said:

Graycap23 said:

Is it Impossible 2 NEVER start using?

^

Sorry this was difficult for you to follow. It is nearly impossible to control FOOD ADDICITION. Did you see the "...." that means that those last 2 words are related to the words prior to the "....".

Not the PREVIOUS SENTENCE. Thanks for reading.

Interesting response.

I'll ask MY question again: Is it Impossible 2 NEVER start using?

mozfonky said:

prodigalfan said:

Sorry, I know it is wrong... but she's my only one and I want to protect her. I am well aware of other professions having substance abuse issues. I'm in the medical field... but I can 't help but notice that statistically more people in the entertainment business suffer more from their lifestyle choices. A small group in the big picture yet a significant number of celebrities succumb to that wild lifestyle. Want the best for my little girl and I am unconvinced that a life of entertainment is the best. She can perform in small venues as a hobby. Not her life's goal.

being overprotective is just as bad as not protective enough. And if someone is truly called, they are called. I'd say over 95% of kids who take up music outgrow it. for people like me, nothing could stop me, my parents took me to psychiatrists, put me on meds, tried to change my goals, but it was something I was born to do, I couldn't stop even if I wanted to. And not all of us are into the drugs and alcohol, I for one, have never touched the stuff and don't socialize with other musicians. I remember a book called "Too Young To die" which chronicled all the celebs who die young and cited the reason as being as a group, people who just cannot delay gratification, very impulsive people. as a rule, I'd say that's true for many "stars" and that they usually are trying to compensate for an inferiority complex of some kind, usually they are wounded before they ever pick up an instrument or take an acting class. Jimi Hendrix, Marvin Gaye, James Dean on and on, nearly all had truamatic horrible, heartbreaking shit happen to them as children.

prodigalfan said:

Mindflux said:

What? I can't believe I'm reading this!

First off - her parents were obviously PROUD of their daughter and her talent! Its the drugs they are going to blame, not their daughter or her profession!

Are you seriously suggesting that it is only artists, musicians and performers who succumb to drugs and meet an untimely demise?! People from ALL walks of life take drugs and that includes "dental hygienists" or whatever other "saintly" profession you wish to offer. Lawyers, bankers, nurses, street cleaners, you name it - it has nothing to do with profession and everything to do with who you are. People who experiment with drugs would ALWAYS have experimented with drugs, no matter what their situation.

And, please, don't discourage your daughter to waste her talent! You may as well be a rock of crack cocaine yourself! Do you also advise her not to cross the road in case she gets run over? Do you tell her not to fly in a plane in case it crashes? Suggesting to her that she should forget her talent and not take it seriously JUST IN CASE something bad might happen to her is naive, restrictive and just plain wrong. Let her live her life and follow her dreams and give her guidance through it - but don't project your prejudices and misconceptions on her and scaremonger her out of pursuing her own interest and natural ability, that's just wrong! Not everyone who "makes it" ends up killing themselves or falling on hard times - most do just fine, just like in any other profession.

Sorry, I know it is wrong... but she's my only one and I want to protect her. I am well aware of other professions having substance abuse issues. I'm in the medical field... but I can 't help but notice that statistically more people in the entertainment business suffer more from their lifestyle choices. A small group in the big picture yet a significant number of celebrities succumb to that wild lifestyle. Want the best for my little girl and I am unconvinced that a life of entertainment is the best. She can perform in small venues as a hobby. Not her life's goal.

Take it from sombody, who's father stepped on his dreams for the same reason. By stepping on her dreams, you might create an even worse problem....RESENTMENT. You don't EVER want your child to resent you, because your the one that killed their dreams. Even though I went on and became very successful in the legal field and later in music, I hold so much resent me towards my dad, because he would not allow me to do music, when I was younger, because of his OWN insecurities and fears. I thank God for my mom, who not only allowed me to follow my musical dreams, she was always their for me to talk to and keep me in line, when I got out of line. Lastly, EVERYBODY suffers, from the choices that they make in life, not only those in the entertainment field. We just hear about their's more, because of what WE and the press, make them out to be. Believe it or not, they are just like everybody else. They are just getting paid for doing something that they love to do...Unlike us "little people", who are just too afraid to step "outside of the box" and do something that we NEED to do, to be happy.

[Edited 7/25/11 6:21am]

Mindflux said:

prodigalfan said:

Sorry, I know it is wrong... but she's my only one and I want to protect her. I am well aware of other professions having substance abuse issues. I'm in the medical field... but I can 't help but notice that statistically more people in the entertainment business suffer more from their lifestyle choices. A small group in the big picture yet a significant number of celebrities succumb to that wild lifestyle. Want the best for my little girl and I am unconvinced that a life of entertainment is the best. She can perform in small venues as a hobby. Not her life's goal.

Thanks for your reply. I do understand - I am a parent myself, of a 13-year-old boy who is also an only child. But, I don't try and encase him in a hemetically sealed bubble of protection - otherwise, how is he supposed to learn how to handle bad situations? Its odd that you "know its wrong" and yet you continue to pursue that same course of action! I'm not telling you how to bring up your child, just trying to open you to the possibility that you might be doing her more harm than good, despite your intentions. I'd like to see those statistics that tell you that people in the entertainment field suffer more than anyone else - I find that hard to believe. I would bet the biggest group are the disadvantaged - those who are unemployed or live in poverty, that is the vulnerable group. Not everyone in the entertainment industry ends up on drugs and, as I said before, it is to do with the individual, not the profession. furthermore, not everyone who takes drugs has a problem, it is still only the minority, sames as people who drink becoming alcoholics (I would have thought being in the "medical field" you would know this). As you are fond of stastics, you may be interested to know that, statisically, a child is more at risk from death horse-riding than it is taking from taking ecstacy. Yet, I'll bet that you wouldn't stop your daughter from horse-riding, would you? Just food for thought

even though this was not a suprise...this still makes me so sad

rest in peace amy

Graycap23 said:

prodigalfan said:

^

Sorry this was difficult for you to follow. It is nearly impossible to control FOOD ADDICITION. Did you see the "...." that means that those last 2 words are related to the words prior to the "....".

Not the PREVIOUS SENTENCE. Thanks for reading.

Interesting response.

I'll ask MY question again: Is it Impossible 2 NEVER start using?

Of course it is, but life is never a set of black and white choices, is it?

For most, it is a lifestyle choice, but not everyone. Circumstances, poverty, peer pressure, internal pressure, there's a whole heap of things that might lead someone to take drugs. But usually, it is their choice. Thing is, people who do take drugs often see that, actually, they are not as instantly dangerous as some would have you believe - in fact, they're quite fun. But, as the saying goes - everything in moderation. And, sometimes, it is hard for the individual to know where that line it. A majority of people manage to take drugs with no problems at all - some, unfortunately don't.

Sure, its easy to say, well you could have just never started using in the firstplace - but that's nonsensical and not exactly compassionate either! Would you say to someone dying of lung cancer "Well, you should have never started smoking in the first place". Or a similar phrase to someone who is suffering from alcoholism? Or, how about someone who is paralysed following a fall from rock-climbing? Of course not! Life has risks - some things you do carry greater risks than others, but we cannot, as much as we would like to, eliminate risk from our lives.

powersoul99 said:

rialb said:

Unnecessary. If you want to debate this why not use orgnotes?

Besides quality > quantity. Stanley Kubrick took his time making movies, is he overrated?

Not a debate, just a fact that she only did 2 albums and the last one was 5 years ago.

Not very good really for someone that people think is so good?

Sometimes, it's not about quantity as it is about, quality. Even though, she was on this earth for a short while, what she did release was of pretty good quality.

shorttrini said:

prodigalfan said:

Sorry, I know it is wrong... but she's my only one and I want to protect her. I am well aware of other professions having substance abuse issues. I'm in the medical field... but I can 't help but notice that statistically more people in the entertainment business suffer more from their lifestyle choices. A small group in the big picture yet a significant number of celebrities succumb to that wild lifestyle. Want the best for my little girl and I am unconvinced that a life of entertainment is the best. She can perform in small venues as a hobby. Not her life's goal.

Take it from sombody, who's father stepped on his dreams for the same reason. By stepping on her dreams, you might create an even worse problem....RESENTMENT. You don't EVER want your child to resent you, because of your the one that killed their dreams. Even though I went on and became very successful in the legal field and later in music, I hold so much resent me towards my dad, because he would not allow me to do music, when I was younger, because of his OWN insecurities and fears. I thank God for my mom, who not only allowed me to follow my musical dreams, she was always their for me to talk to and keep me in line, when I got out of line. Lastly, EVERYBODY suffers, from the choices that they make in life, not only those in the entertainment field. We just hear about their's more, because of what WE and the press, make them out to be. Believe it or not, they are just like everybody else. They are just getting paid for doing something that they love to do...Unlike us "little people", who are just too afraid to step "outside of the box" and do something that we NEED to do, to be happy.

Totally on point

Graycap23 said:

prodigalfan said:

^

Sorry this was difficult for you to follow. It is nearly impossible to control FOOD ADDICITION. Did you see the "...." that means that those last 2 words are related to the words prior to the "....".

Not the PREVIOUS SENTENCE. Thanks for reading.

Interesting response.

I'll ask MY question again: Is it Impossible 2 NEVER start using?

prodigalfan said:

Mindflux said:

Thanks for your reply. I do understand - I am a parent myself, of a 13-year-old boy who is also an only child. But, I don't try and encase him in a hemetically sealed bubble of protection - otherwise, how is he supposed to learn how to handle bad situations? Its odd that you "know its wrong" and yet you continue to pursue that same course of action! I'm not telling you how to bring up your child, just trying to open you to the possibility that you might be doing her more harm than good, despite your intentions. I'd like to see those statistics that tell you that people in the entertainment field suffer more than anyone else - I find that hard to believe. I would bet the biggest group are the disadvantaged - those who are unemployed or live in poverty, that is the vulnerable group. Not everyone in the entertainment industry ends up on drugs and, as I said before, it is to do with the individual, not the profession. furthermore, not everyone who takes drugs has a problem, it is still only the minority, sames as people who drink becoming alcoholics (I would have thought being in the "medical field" you would know this). As you are fond of stastics, you may be interested to know that, statisically, a child is more at risk from death horse-riding than it is taking from taking ecstacy. Yet, I'll bet that you wouldn't stop your daughter from horse-riding, would you? Just food for thought

And gymnastics too.

Really?

Please, try and follow some of the advice that I and others here have given you - its all with love, not animosity. But, please, stop stifling your daughter....let her breath and blossom. You WILL regret it later in life if you constantly cosset and smother her - believe!

Mindflux said:

Graycap23 said:

Interesting response.

I'll ask MY question again: Is it Impossible 2 NEVER start using?

Of course it is, but life is never a set of black and white choices, is it?

Sure, its easy to say, well you could have just never started using in the firstplace - but that's nonsensical

Wow..........nonsensical to never start using drugs.

It's the 1st time in my life I've ever heard that comment.

shorttrini said:

prodigalfan said:

Sorry, I know it is wrong... but she's my only one and I want to protect her. I am well aware of other professions having substance abuse issues. I'm in the medical field... but I can 't help but notice that statistically more people in the entertainment business suffer more from their lifestyle choices. A small group in the big picture yet a significant number of celebrities succumb to that wild lifestyle. Want the best for my little girl and I am unconvinced that a life of entertainment is the best. She can perform in small venues as a hobby. Not her life's goal.

Take it from sombody, who's father stepped on his dreams for the same reason. By stepping on her dreams, you might create an even worse problem....RESENTMENT. You don't EVER want your child to resent you, because of your the one that killed their dreams. Even though I went on and became very successful in the legal field and later in music, I hold so much resent me towards my dad, because he would not allow me to do music, when I was younger, because of his OWN insecurities and fears. I thank God for my mom, who not only allowed me to follow my musical dreams, she was always their for me to talk to and keep me in line, when I got out of line. Lastly, EVERYBODY suffers, from the choices that they make in life, not only those in the entertainment field. We just hear about their's more, because of what WE and the press, make them out to be. Believe it or not, they are just like everybody else. They are just getting paid for doing something that they love to do...Unlike us "little people", who are just too afraid to step "outside of the box" and do something that we NEED to do, to be happy.

This child of mine is like a foreigner to me. She is so different... she LIKES being different. Already she has this bohemian style about her and she is 11. I keep trying to keep her in the middle lane, and she is beginning to show independence and defiance. and I have thought about her resenting me for attempting to mold her.

You just don't know. Maybe she will grow out of it. Maybe it is her vibe. Andy Allo is looks and dresses like an older version of my daughter. Right down to the hair. I am always pulling it back to smooth ponytails, she likes it wild. At 11 year old! She begs me to buy her Indian culture dresses... I mean Indian from INDIA.

At any rate, thanks to my Org friends for taking time to bring up some very valid points without coming across as judgmental.

And my sincere apologies for hijacking this thread. Amy was a rare talent, and I regret the missed opportunities to hear more from her.

Graycap23 said:

prodigalfan said:

^

Sorry this was difficult for you to follow. It is nearly impossible to control FOOD ADDICITION. Did you see the "...." that means that those last 2 words are related to the words prior to the "....".

Not the PREVIOUS SENTENCE. Thanks for reading.

Interesting response.

I'll ask MY question again: Is it Impossible 2 NEVER start using?

It is definitely NOT impossible to never start using drugs.

The only real problem is trying to understand why some individuals start use drugs in the first place. The reasons will vary.

--- One person used to calm their nerves and/or opening their minds to new ideas.

--- One person used MDMA to get hype for their next rave and to enhance their vision during the light show.

--- One person used steroids to speed up muscle grown, despite that he/she will still need to train in the gym.

--- One person used cocaine so they can feel good.

--- One person used an alcohol beverage to get "out of character" in order to co-exist within a partying circle.

Like I said, the reasons will vary. But the one thing all of these reasons have in common is "escapism". Drug users are always trying to escape the realities of their lives, plain and simple. Instead of being real men/real women by owning up to their responsibilities of their realities, then choose to take drugs as a mean to escape from those responsibilities.

prodigalfan said:

shorttrini said:

Take it from sombody, who's father stepped on his dreams for the same reason. By stepping on her dreams, you might create an even worse problem....RESENTMENT. You don't EVER want your child to resent you, because of your the one that killed their dreams. Even though I went on and became very successful in the legal field and later in music, I hold so much resent me towards my dad, because he would not allow me to do music, when I was younger, because of his OWN insecurities and fears. I thank God for my mom, who not only allowed me to follow my musical dreams, she was always their for me to talk to and keep me in line, when I got out of line. Lastly, EVERYBODY suffers, from the choices that they make in life, not only those in the entertainment field. We just hear about their's more, because of what WE and the press, make them out to be. Believe it or not, they are just like everybody else. They are just getting paid for doing something that they love to do...Unlike us "little people", who are just too afraid to step "outside of the box" and do something that we NEED to do, to be happy.

Y'all gonna make me cry. Again thank you for your reply. I am not just blowing through these posts, I am really taking this to heart.

This child of mine is like a foreigner to me. She is so different... she LIKES being different. Already she has this bohemian style about her and she is 11. I keep trying to keep her in the middle lane, and she is beginning to show independence and defiance. and I have thought about her resenting me for attempting to mold her.

You just don't know. Maybe she will grow out of it. Maybe it is her vibe. Andy Allo is looks and dresses like an older version of my daughter. Right down to the hair. I am always pulling it back to smooth ponytails, she likes it wild. At 11 year old! She begs me to buy her Indian culture dresses... I mean Indian from INDIA.

At any rate, thanks to my Org friends for taking time to bring up some very valid points without coming across as judgmental.

And my sincere apologies for hijacking this thread. Amy was a rare talent, and I regret the missed opportunities to hear more from her.

I know all about being different, out of my six brothers, I was the only one born with a disability. Having a disability made me even more determined to WANT to stand out for what I was good at, instead of for something, that I could not help. Like I said before, keep the lines of communication with your daughter open. She is going to need that shoulder to cry on, when a chosen few, decide that teasing her for being different, should be their mission for the day. That being said, teasing builds character and makes you stronger....

TonyVanDam said:

Graycap23 said:

Interesting response.

I'll ask MY question again: Is it Impossible 2 NEVER start using?

It is definitely NOT impossible to never start using drugs.

The only real problem is trying to understand why some individuals start use drugs in the first place. The reasons will vary.

--- One person used to calm their nerves and/or opening their minds to new ideas.

--- One person used MDMA to get hype for their next rave and to enhance their vision during the light show.

--- One person used steroids to speed up muscle grown, despite that he/she will still need to train in the gym.

--- One person used cocaine so they can feel good.

--- One person used an alcohol beverage to get "out of character" in order to co-exist within a partying circle.

Like I said, the reasons will vary. But the one thing all of these reasons have in common is "escapism". Drug users are always trying to escape the realities of their lives, plain and simple. Instead of being real men/real women by owning up to their responsibilities of their realities, then choose to take drugs as a mean to escape from those responsibilities.

Graycap23 said:

Mindflux said:

Of course it is, but life is never a set of black and white choices, is it?

Sure, its easy to say, well you could have just never started using in the firstplace - but that's nonsensical

Wow..........nonsensical to never start using drugs.

It's the 1st time in my life I've ever heard that comment.

No, come on now, you're an intelligent guy - I didn't say it was "nonsensical" to never start using drugs, its the logic of saying you should have never started.

Anyway, drugs are massively prevalent in daily life - even those who think they're not doing drugs, are! Tea is the most popular drink in the world - why? Because it contains a drug. You take drugs if you're sick (and most prescription drugs have an horrific list of side-effects - even over the counter stuff! Know what will happen if you take too much paracetamol?). If you drink alcohol, you are taking drugs. Unfortunately, certain drugs have been demonised and grouped together for political reasons.

Many good things have come from drugs. Shakespeare, Lord, Byron, The Beatles, David Bowie (the list is massive) - tonnes of good literature and music have come from known-drug takers - it is no coincidence. Like Bill Hicks said "If you don't think drugs have had a positive effect on people, then go home and burn all your records, all that music that has enriched people's lives, cos, you know what? All the musicians who made that music were real fucking high!".

That's not to say drugs don't carry a risk (but, as I said before, what doesn't?!) - but to fall for the propanganda delivered by governments since the early part of the 20th Century (before which, the now illegal drugs were commonplace and could be bought in a local store!) is to be naive. And, frankly, unless you have experienced drugs for yourself, then you are in no position to comment as to their effects. The evidence is plain to see - millions of people get by using (as opposed to ABusing) drugs with no problems - unfortunately, that is not the same for everyone.

Good for you if you have chosen not to do them - that is your choice. But don't judge and ridicule those that do, especially if you have no direct experience yourself, as you simply don't know what you are talking about.

Anyway, shall we try and keep to the thread subject - which is to mourn the tragedy of Amy?

prodigalfan said:

TonyVanDam said:

It is definitely NOT impossible to never start using drugs.

The only real problem is trying to understand why some individuals start use drugs in the first place. The reasons will vary.

--- One person used to calm their nerves and/or opening their minds to new ideas.

--- One person used MDMA to get hype for their next rave and to enhance their vision during the light show.

--- One person used steroids to speed up muscle grown, despite that he/she will still need to train in the gym.

--- One person used cocaine so they can feel good.

--- One person used an alcohol beverage to get "out of character" in order to co-exist within a partying circle.

Like I said, the reasons will vary. But the one thing all of these reasons have in common is "escapism". Drug users are always trying to escape the realities of their lives, plain and simple. Instead of being real men/real women by owning up to their responsibilities of their realities, then choose to take drugs as a mean to escape from those responsibilities.

I have done this myself. I am not addicted to alcohol, but just acknowledging that I have used alcohol to "loosen up" during a social gathering makes me more cognitive of how a person would begin substance abuse. I have always wondered why would anyone START drugs. Now I know. They tried it for some other desired effect without the intention of abusing. They really really didn't think they could become addicted when they first start. Difficult for me to believe someone could be that naive... but that must be the reason why they begin.

That's because it is NOT naive! Read my post above to Graycap. Most people can handle drugs, just like you appear to be able to handle alcohol (which, in itself, is a DRUG!). Most people won't have a problem with drugs, like most people won't become alcoholics, like most people who like to have a bet don't end up betting until they lose their savings and livelihood. A lot of people are capable of doing things they enjoy without going to an extreme - just not everybody.

As I've said many times - it depends, primarily, on the person themselves and the character they are.

Mindflux said:

Graycap23 said:

Wow..........nonsensical to never start using drugs.

It's the 1st time in my life I've ever heard that comment.

. But don't judge and ridicule those that do, especially if you have no direct experience yourself, as you simply don't know what you are talking about.

This is NOT about judging as that is irrelevant.

I don't want 2 know or have direct experience with drugs and alcohol.

U already ready know what could happen 2 u before u take the 1st hit.

That is nonsensical.

Oh and, by the way, what Tony Van Dam wrote was partly bollocks. He's right about some of the reasons that people may start to take drugs, but the rest is entirely wrong. Particularly this;

"Drug users are always trying to escape the realities of their lives, plain and simple. Instead of being real men/real women by owning up to their responsibilities of their realities, then choose to take drugs as a mean to escape from those responsibilities."

That is utter shite - it can be true, but not always - you can't generalise about these things.

I happen to take drugs to enhance certain things. I've been taking drugs for over 20 years - all in moderation and in control. The other musicians I work with have been the same. I'm not escaping the reality of my life - the reality of my life is exactly what I want it to be. I'm very happy - I do the job I love, I pay all my taxes, I have a family, I don't steal, I'm not escaping from anything. I simply use drugs to achieve certain effects and insights and then express that with my music or, simply, just have a laugh with my mates.

Rhetoric of Tony's kind comes from someone with no experience and who thinks he's got it sussed - I mean, it fits the profile of what the government and media want you to believe - that people who take drugs can't handle "normal" life (whatever that is!) and are good-for-nothings who just want to escape from reality and responsibility. That will be true for a certain section of people (usually, those who are disadvantaged and live in poverty - and who wouldn't want to escape that?! However, drugs aren't really the answer to escaping problems).

I don't fit that description that Tony has offered and neither do a lot of the people I know. Its insulting and is no different to any other prejudice (assuming that a certain section of people behave in a certain way), like racism for example.

prodigalfan said:

TonyVanDam said:

It is definitely NOT impossible to never start using drugs.

The only real problem is trying to understand why some individuals start use drugs in the first place. The reasons will vary.

--- One person used to calm their nerves and/or opening their minds to new ideas.

--- One person used MDMA to get hype for their next rave and to enhance their vision during the light show.

--- One person used steroids to speed up muscle grown, despite that he/she will still need to train in the gym.

--- One person used cocaine so they can feel good.

--- One person used an alcohol beverage to get "out of character" in order to co-exist within a partying circle.

Like I said, the reasons will vary. But the one thing all of these reasons have in common is "escapism". Drug users are always trying to escape the realities of their lives, plain and simple. Instead of being real men/real women by owning up to their responsibilities of their realities, then choose to take drugs as a mean to escape from those responsibilities.

I have done this myself. I am not addicted to alcohol, but just acknowledging that I have used alcohol to "loosen up" during a social gathering makes me more cognitive of how a person would begin substance abuse. I have always wondered why would anyone START drugs. Now I know. They tried it for some other desired effect without the intention of abusing. They really really didn't think they could become addicted when they first start. Difficult for me to believe someone could be that naive... but that must be the reason why they begin.

Graycap23 said:

Mindflux said:

. But don't judge and ridicule those that do, especially if you have no direct experience yourself, as you simply don't know what you are talking about.

This is NOT about judging as that is irrelevant.

I don't want 2 know or have direct experience with drugs and alcohol.

U already ready know what could happen 2 u before u take the 1st hit.

That is nonsensical.

Yes it is and I already said to you that your choice is fine. Its great that you've ignored everything else I've said (life being ful of risks etc).

Do you drive a car? Don't you already know that by driving a car you could be involved in a lethal accident? It happens hundreds of times a day, anywhere! Does it stop you driving?

How come I've managed to take various drugs over 20 years and I'm still here, having a completely cogent, intelligent debate and still producing music and contributing positively to society? Is that nonsensical?

Like I said - good for you that you don't take drugs or drink. That's your choice and I'm not going to have a go at you for that - please extend me the same courtesy.

powersoul99 said:

rialb said:

Unnecessary. If you want to debate this why not use orgnotes?

Besides quality > quantity. Stanley Kubrick took his time making movies, is he overrated?

Not a debate, just a fact that she only did 2 albums and the last one was 5 years ago.

Not very good really for someone that people think is so good?

Look, if you don't like or appreciate her amazing talent, you've said your piece so just move the fuck on and leave this thread alone.

shorttrini said:

powersoul99 said:

Not a debate, just a fact that she only did 2 albums and the last one was 5 years ago.

Not very good really for someone that people think is so good?

Sometimes, it's not about quantity as it is about, quality. Even though, she was on this earth for a short while, what she did release was of pretty good quality.

That is right... Amy Winehouse only albums have been more impressive than anything playing on the radio today and I dont care what no one says. While she probably wont go down as one of the greatest, she did make creative artistic music COMPARED to her PEERS and that should be applauded and respected especially in this generation. I personally think she was one of the best talents from this generation.

Also, LET THE FANS or PEOPLE who want to remember Amy for her music do so... geez really.. have some respect. If you want to be nasty or dont care to discuss than just LEAVE the thread, its really just that simple.

mjscarousal said:

shorttrini said:

Sometimes, it's not about quantity as it is about, quality. Even though, she was on this earth for a short while, what she did release was of pretty good quality.

That is right... Amy Winehouse only albums have been more impressive than anything playing on the radio today and I dont care what no one says. While she probably wont go down as one of the greatest, she did make creative artistic music COMPARED to her PEERS and that should be applauded and respected especially in this generation. I personally think she was one of the best talents from this generation.

Also, LET THE FANS or PEOPLE who want to remember Amy for her music do so... geez really.. have some respect. If you want to be nasty or dont care to discuss than just LEAVE the thread, its really just that simple.

And no auto-tune needed like so many of the folks on the charts today!