R&B is on a respirator. Once a celebrated genre that has given the music industry some of its most praised acts (see: Luther, Whitney, Aretha, Marvin), the musical styling has unquestionably lost its identity to Hip-Hop and now Electro-Pop.

The question at hand: is R&B (as a commercially viable force) on its last breath or is revival in its future? In a three part series, That Grape Juice will analyze three sectors of the fallen genre: ladies (songstresses), males (crooners), and groups (both male and female) to determine if resurrection is in its future or if it will find permanent rest in the history books.

As always, ladies first…

Turning the dial (or Youtube search engine) back 20 years to see the plethora of female R&B acts dominating the radios and Pop charts is a stinging reminder of a time when the industry thrived on variety. From crossover acts such as Mariah Carey, Whitney Houston, and Janet Jackson, to up-and-comers Mary J. Blige and Toni Braxton (just to name a few), there was no shortage of R&B estrogen on the airwaves or charts. Not to mention such classic, yet then-active artists like Anita Baker, Aretha Franklin, and Gladys Knight.

However, as Hip-Hop/R&B fusions became more of a constant (which some attribute to artists like Carey and Mary J. Blige), the junior generation of R&B diva emerged in the form of the Aaliyah’s, Brandy’s, Monica’s, and eventually Ashanti’s. Then, of course, you had that brand of 90s R&B diva (Faith Evans, Tamia, Deborah Cox and Kelly Price) who lacked crossover appeal, yet were still relevant – even if just appealing to a small niche.

But, as the 2000s rolled on and Hip-Hop was becoming the driving force of the music industry, ballads and slow jams were losing steam on the charts, and Hip-Hop was surely killing the R&B star. And while many of the time period marked Alicia Keys as a ’savior of R&B’, she was one of very few pure R&B females who was granted relevancy in an increasingly convoluted music world. Interestingly, though Mary J. Blige and Mariah Carey (who by 2005 were considered veterans) were seeing some of the best numbers of their careers, the genre’s overall shortcomings were inescapable.

Then, as the Beyonce’s and the Rihanna’s of the music world began to dominate charts by willingly trading in their R&B humbling’s for Pop’ier hits, the 90s divas of yester-year who refused to succumb to the change found themselves succumbing to irrelevancy. Even those who once showed promise in the early 2000s (Amerie, Tweet, and co) were finding themselves lost in the fray. Suffice it to say, the industry at large began to suffer (see: illegal downloading, cd leaks), yet R&B’s former leading ladies seemed to fall victim most (Brandy, Monica, Mya, and eventually Ashanti).

Fast forward to 2011. Where is R&B female? Even with hints of recent reigniting of public interest (i.e. Fantasia’s ‘Back To Me’, Monica’s ‘Still Standing’), they alone are not enough to indicate a resurgence. And, even with notable record sales (given the current musical climate), those sales are marginal at best comparatively.

Record sales aside, the presence of R&B females on the Hot 100 chart recently is rarely without rapper accompaniment. There is a new class of R&B divas, however. While not reporting record-breaking numbers, the Keri Hilson’s, Kelly Rowland’s, Jennifer Hudson’s, and co. are definitely making noise. But, is it enough to resurrect the fallen genre? Or will R&B eventually rest in peace?

http://thatgrapejuice.net...rb-part-1/

One thing that really turned me off of modern R & B was the fact that it became rarer and rarer to find an album that did not feature rappers. If I wanted to hear rap music I would buy it. I don't, I want to hear people singing! It seemed like over time rap took over more and more until there was barely any R & B music left.

That's not even R&B music lol

I don't consider Keri Hilson R&B, but mainstream pop(rap-when she wants to be). I also consider her a Beyonce clone, with the now blonde, hair weaves. She started out ok, but I didn't think she would fall into mainstream pop/techno whatever you call it these days. Now Jennifer Hudson, still has a lot of soul, so she can still be categorized within R&B.

Leela James, doesn't get the attention she deserves as a r&b/soul artist, now that many black female/male singers seem to be moving away from that genre.

The article should be more honest, most of the black artists doing music nowadays is basically pop or hip-pop or dance-pop with electro influences.

Timmy84 said:

The article should be more honest, most of the black artists doing music nowadays is basically pop or hip-pop or dance-pop with electro influences.

It’s true; I think “Urban Music” in general needs to step up.

babybugz said:

Timmy84 said:

The article should be more honest, most of the black artists doing music nowadays is basically pop or hip-pop or dance-pop with electro influences.

It’s true; I think “Urban Music” in general needs to step up.

Yeah I wonder if the artists themselves even realize it by now.

Timmy84 said:

rialb said:

One thing that really turned me off of modern R & B was the fact that it became rarer and rarer to find an album that did not feature rappers. If I wanted to hear rap music I would buy it. I don't, I want to hear people singing! It seemed like over time rap took over more and more until there was barely any R & B music left.

You might want to thank New Edition or the Force MD's for that. They were among the R&B acts to combine singing and rapping in the 1980's. Although there were some early rap groups who did some singing (The Furious Five, The Sequence). Then there were the collabs like Fat Boys (Chubby Checker, Beach Boys) and Run DMC (Aerosmith), and the Sun City charity song.

MickyDolenz said:

rialb said:

One thing that really turned me off of modern R & B was the fact that it became rarer and rarer to find an album that did not feature rappers. If I wanted to hear rap music I would buy it. I don't, I want to hear people singing! It seemed like over time rap took over more and more until there was barely any R & B music left.

You might want to thank New Edition or the Force MD's for that. They were among the R&B acts to combine singing and rapping in the 1980's. Although there were some early rap groups who did some singing (The Furious Five, The Sequence). Then there were the collabs like Fat Boys (Chubby Checker, Beach Boys) and Run DMC (Aerosmith), and the Sun City charity song.

Even with NE and the Force MD's it was rare until NE became part of the New Jack

genre. The whole rap and r&b marriage took off in the 90's with Teddy Riley and

P Diddy(Mary J. Blige)

R&B music is virtually dead.

smoothcriminal12 said:

R&B music is virtually dead.

Rock music is pretty much dead too and has a huge grave dug for it, maybe they can be buried together?

rialb said:

smoothcriminal12 said:

R&B music is virtually dead.

Rock music is pretty much dead too and has a huge grave dug for it, maybe they can be buried together?

And funk with it?

Screw electro-pop.

Go to church, really.

I made a thread about this years ago, I'll pull it up. Most of these great R&B artist of the past started in church. They were in the choir. Sister Bessie tought them how to sing. They learned to play instruments from Brother Charles Smith, the church music instructor.

http://prince.org/msg/8/250256

LittleBLUECorvette said:

Go to church, really.

I made a thread about this years ago, I'll pull it up. Most of these great R&B artist of the past started in church. They were in the choir. Sister Bessie tought them how to sing. They learned to play instruments from Brother Charles Smith, the church music instructor.

http://prince.org/msg/8/250256

Please, I go to church. The church don't even have it anymore. They too busy with their contemporary ish.

LittleBLUECorvette said:

Go to church, really.

I made a thread about this years ago, I'll pull it up. Most of these great R&B artist of the past started in church. They were in the choir. Sister Bessie tought them how to sing. They learned to play instruments from Brother Charles Smith, the church music instructor.

http://prince.org/msg/8/250256

Church ain't like what it used to be. Thank Kirk and 'em for making gospel just as plastic as "R&B".

Timmy84 said:

plastic

rialb said:

smoothcriminal12 said:

R&B music is virtually dead.

Rock music is pretty much dead too and has a huge grave dug for it, maybe they can be buried together?

The genres are just in piles of mud. People trying to dug it out but there's always someone trying to renovate with new buildings trying to cock-block it.

I don't have it in me to get into this discussion again.

If you are looking for good music on the radio, that's like wondering why there are no prime cut ribeye steaks at McDonalds.

If someone points you to where to find them (hint: you're on it right now. hint #2: THE INTERNET) and you don't look there, then its your own fault.

Timmy84 said:

That's not even R&B music lol

Not to mention that people like Aretha, Gladys, Marvin and Luther are SOUL singers...not R&B.

The rest they mentioned are mostly pop-tarts.

Timmy84 said:

LittleBLUECorvette said:

Go to church, really.

I made a thread about this years ago, I'll pull it up. Most of these great R&B artist of the past started in church. They were in the choir. Sister Bessie tought them how to sing. They learned to play instruments from Brother Charles Smith, the church music instructor.

http://prince.org/msg/8/250256

Church ain't like what it used to be. Thank Kirk and 'em for making gospel just as plastic as "R&B".

I can't stand most contemporary gospel music.

babynoz said:

Timmy84 said:

That's not even R&B music lol

Not to mention that people like Aretha, Gladys, Marvin and Luther are SOUL singers...not R&B.

The rest they mentioned are mostly pop-tarts.

HAPPYPERSON said:

R&B is on a respirator. Once a celebrated genre that has given the music industry some of its most praised acts (see: Luther, Whitney, Aretha, Marvin), the musical styling has unquestionably lost its identity to Hip-Hop and now Electro-Pop.

The question at hand: is R&B (as a commercially viable force) on its last breath or is revival in its future? In a three part series, That Grape Juice will analyze three sectors of the fallen genre: ladies (songstresses), males (crooners), and groups (both male and female) to determine if resurrection is in its future or if it will find permanent rest in the history books.

As always, ladies first…

Turning the dial (or Youtube search engine) back 20 years to see the plethora of female R&B acts dominating the radios and Pop charts is a stinging reminder of a time when the industry thrived on variety. From crossover acts such as Mariah Carey, Whitney Houston, and Janet Jackson, to up-and-comers Mary J. Blige and Toni Braxton (just to name a few), there was no shortage of R&B estrogen on the airwaves or charts. Not to mention such classic, yet then-active artists like Anita Baker, Aretha Franklin, and Gladys Knight.

However, as Hip-Hop/R&B fusions became more of a constant (which some attribute to artists like Carey and Mary J. Blige), the junior generation of R&B diva emerged in the form of the Aaliyah’s, Brandy’s, Monica’s, and eventually Ashanti’s. Then, of course, you had that brand of 90s R&B diva (Faith Evans, Tamia, Deborah Cox and Kelly Price) who lacked crossover appeal, yet were still relevant – even if just appealing to a small niche.

But, as the 2000s rolled on and Hip-Hop was becoming the driving force of the music industry, ballads and slow jams were losing steam on the charts, and Hip-Hop was surely killing the R&B star. And while many of the time period marked Alicia Keys as a ’savior of R&B’, she was one of very few pure R&B females who was granted relevancy in an increasingly convoluted music world. Interestingly, though Mary J. Blige and Mariah Carey (who by 2005 were considered veterans) were seeing some of the best numbers of their careers, the genre’s overall shortcomings were inescapable.

Then, as the Beyonce’s and the Rihanna’s of the music world began to dominate charts by willingly trading in their R&B humbling’s for Pop’ier hits, the 90s divas of yester-year who refused to succumb to the change found themselves succumbing to irrelevancy. Even those who once showed promise in the early 2000s (Amerie, Tweet, and co) were finding themselves lost in the fray. Suffice it to say, the industry at large began to suffer (see: illegal downloading, cd leaks), yet R&B’s former leading ladies seemed to fall victim most (Brandy, Monica, Mya, and eventually Ashanti).

Fast forward to 2011. Where is R&B female? Even with hints of recent reigniting of public interest (i.e. Fantasia’s ‘Back To Me’, Monica’s ‘Still Standing’), they alone are not enough to indicate a resurgence. And, even with notable record sales (given the current musical climate), those sales are marginal at best comparatively.

Record sales aside, the presence of R&B females on the Hot 100 chart recently is rarely without rapper accompaniment. There is a new class of R&B divas, however. While not reporting record-breaking numbers, the Keri Hilson’s, Kelly Rowland’s, Jennifer Hudson’s, and co. are definitely making noise. But, is it enough to resurrect the fallen genre? Or will R&B eventually rest in peace?

http://thatgrapejuice.net...rb-part-1/

Well as said before and i will say it again, the 90's killed alot of RB off, kind of the way Grunge killed off the Hair Metal bands like Winger and Warrant, RB of the 90's killed off ALOT of what RB real. The constant mixing of genres of Hip Hop and RB and Rap basically just alienated a whole audience, there are WAY too many labels in music, too many charts that also SEPERATE the music into boxes, and no one tries to get out, they try to jump into the one that sells the most, and the 90's were the day of Puffy and Mixes, everytime someone dropped an album the radio would play a remix NOT on the album, and then rerelease the album, this shit went on like clockwork. And like anything else too much of something, kills it off, and its time to say goodbye to this shit.

The main problem is that this article is focusing on SALES as a meaning to "where is RB" and when that is your goal, thats when you will just tread water. And using Keri, Kelly and Jennifer Hudson as a "comeback" of RB is hilarious, nothing against them but i dont hear ANY of what i call RB in them, i hear this mix of Pop and Dance, not RB. I mean when was the last time you heard a RB Band come out? Besides the answer of Mint Condition, name another that can get some kind of love at radio or even a spin? For someone like PRINCE he has to do a lazy ass sex ballad like his blueprint to get played at radio, god forbid he plays guitar, RB radio cant handle instruments, especially when its SO CALLED producers like Timbaland are puzzled when they see a bass guitar, i mean shit, thats the BASE of RB right there.

SO until they bring back that kind of LOVE in rb, it aint coming back, so enjoy your FUSIONPOPDANCE labelled as RB.

babynoz said:

Timmy84 said:

That's not even R&B music lol

Not to mention that people like Aretha, Gladys, Marvin and Luther are SOUL singers...not R&B.

The rest they mentioned are mostly pop-tarts.

Splitting hairs don't you think? Isn't Soul music a type of R & B? The Sex Pistols were a punk band but they still played rock music. Bill Monroe played bluegrass but it's still country. When Miles Davis played fusion it was still jazz.

The world has changed so much now. The forces that made traditional soul and R&B music necessary have changed. I don't care much for the genre-bending trends we see today, but sometimes I think it's for the best.

rialb said:

babynoz said:

Not to mention that people like Aretha, Gladys, Marvin and Luther are SOUL singers...not R&B.

The rest they mentioned are mostly pop-tarts.

Splitting hairs don't you think? Isn't Soul music a type of R & B? The Sex Pistols were a punk band but they still played rock music. Bill Monroe played bluegrass but it's still country. When Miles Davis played fusion it was still jazz.

Of course but fuck it, why anyone waiting to save it. Maybe saying R&B music ain't promoted on radio anymore is too politically incorrect for some folks here.

Timmy84 said:

rialb said:

Splitting hairs don't you think? Isn't Soul music a type of R & B? The Sex Pistols were a punk band but they still played rock music. Bill Monroe played bluegrass but it's still country. When Miles Davis played fusion it was still jazz.

Of course but fuck it, why anyone waiting to save it. Maybe saying R&B music ain't promoted on radio anymore is too politically incorrect for some folks here.

Co-signing radio pushed R&B is co-signing the corporate media's choices of music. Radio is bought, paid for and owned by Clear Channel and theor corporate cronies - unlike when some of us were younger. THAT is why its so different. That is why you don't have the same options as we once did and that is why people looking for more interesting music shouldn't look there for it. I don't let old white guys in stuffy suits pick my clothes and I won't let them pick my music, either. They can't tell me shit about funk, so why should I listen to them? They don't know whats good and whats not in the genres I listen to, so why should I limit myself to their options?

BlaqueKnight said:

Timmy84 said:

Of course but fuck it, why anyone waiting to save it. Maybe saying R&B music ain't promoted on radio anymore is too politically incorrect for some folks here.

Co-signing radio pushed R&B is co-signing the corporate media's choices of music. Radio is bought, paid for and owned by Clear Channel and theor corporate cronies - unlike when some of us were younger. THAT is why its so different. That is why you don't have the same options as we once did and that is why people looking for more interesting music shouldn't look there for it. I don't let old white guys in stuffy suits pick my clothes and I won't let them pick my music, either. They can't tell me shit about funk, so why should I listen to them? They don't know whats good and whats not in the genres I listen to, so why should I limit myself to their options?

But in the end though with all that is said, the public in large has to lose its sales mentality, but it still hasnt, though we preach "good music and this and that" every other thread i see on this forum talks about a FLOP and someone being over and done because they are past 30, so to me the public is getting what they always wanted, cheaping fucking music that anyone can do.

lastdecember said:

BlaqueKnight said:

Co-signing radio pushed R&B is co-signing the corporate media's choices of music. Radio is bought, paid for and owned by Clear Channel and theor corporate cronies - unlike when some of us were younger. THAT is why its so different. That is why you don't have the same options as we once did and that is why people looking for more interesting music shouldn't look there for it. I don't let old white guys in stuffy suits pick my clothes and I won't let them pick my music, either. They can't tell me shit about funk, so why should I listen to them? They don't know whats good and whats not in the genres I listen to, so why should I limit myself to their options?

But in the end though with all that is said, the public in large has to lose its sales mentality, but it still hasnt, though we preach "good music and this and that" every other thread i see on this forum talks about a FLOP and someone being over and done because they are past 30, so to me the public is getting what they always wanted, cheaping fucking music that anyone can do.

I agree.

I don't worry about what the general public is interested in.