purplethunder3121 said:

I'm afraid this is the current reality about Whitney's career and press coverage...whether people want to admit it or not.

Exactly.

Using the appearence on the UK's X factor as an example. It wasn't a success, it was a disaster. I watched it live and was in the parks and offices the next day when the majority said, "Did you see the state of Whitney Houston last night?" The minority, mostly the youngsters, said "Who is she?"

Even the competitors admitted on Extra Factor that she was out of it and they were just being polite.

Her antics are similar to Amy Winehouse. In the papers for all the wrong reasons.

This thread

I think it's kinda absurd denying Whitney's iconic status. None of her personal problems take anything away from her talent and achievements.

I'm sick of these "what does average joe thinks" arguments. Joe thinks MJ is a plastic surgery freak/pedophile, Madonna is a non-singing, ugly old ho, and Prince is viewed as a washed up overly-camp 80s has-been.

Giving Whitney her dues doesnt take anything away from the aformentiones legends

[img:$uid]http://www.picgifs.com/celebrities/w/whitney-houston/celebrities-whitney-houston-379278.jpg[/img:$uid]

LightOfArt said:

This thread

I think it's kinda absurd denying Whitney's iconic status. None of her personal problems take anything away from her talent and achievements.

I'm sick of these "what does average joe thinks" arguments. Joe thinks MJ is a plastic surgery freak/pedophile, Madonna is a non-singing, ugly old ho, and Prince is viewed as a washed up overly-camp 80s has-been.

Giving Whitney her dues doesnt take anything away from the aformentiones legends

[img:$uid]http://www.picgifs.com/celebrities/w/whitney-houston/celebrities-whitney-houston-379278.jpg[/img:$uid]

Thanks which alot of folks here have trouble accepting Oh well

SoulAlive said:

Entertainer said:

totally and unequivocally agree. Yes Stevie and Aretha are more legendary and her godmother, Arethat certainly helped to pave the way for her. But as draws and popular, no way, no how are Stevie and Aretha bigger than Whitney.

When she walks in a room to this day she gets ovations. Cue the UK Xfactor mentor youtube, BET gospel show, AMAs, Oprah, the list goes on. I think besides her being legendary and iconic, part of it is her mystery. She is seldom out and about so there is a vacuum and a void as to where is she, what is she doing. When she does apear, there is a big buzz. Undeniable.

the great thing about it, Prince, MJ and Whitney are all friends and seem to have/had a lot of respect for each other despite their ups and downs.

Undeniably, whitney is the biggest Black Icon/Legend living globally after MJ past. I hope that she gets her wish and gets to work with Prince.

I hate to say this,but these days,people have a totally different view of Whitney Houston.In the 80s and early 90s,she was America's Sweetheart,singing all those sweet ballads with that mighty voice.These days,she is considered a trainwreck....someone who took drugs,married and divoreced Bobby Brown,destroyed her voice and her career.Remember her supposed "comeback" last year? Her tour was such a disaster that she didn't dare bring it to America! Everybody was talking about how she had ruined her voice.THAT'S how people think of her these days.She's no longer in the press because of her talent.She's in the press for being seen drunk at a Prince concert.So,when you talk about her "popularity" these days,make sure you're clear on why she's popular and why she's still getting press.

yes, much of what you say is true and as i've said people don't talk about you unless there is continued interest. when the press stops, then someone's career is non-existant. The flip said of that is that people continue to pull for her and she is still very much in the press, blogs and tv for just being herself.

Because you don't see it or only perk up when you hear about the Prince story that took on a life of it's own with crazy press then that is on you. Whitney being seen at an airport by paps are covered, and shows up on blogs. Whitney's only professional gig work after the Prince story was at the Prince's party which was covered on E tv, tons of blogs, UK press and the like and was favorably responded to. Whitney got BET Celebration of Gospel their highest rating with her appearance in Jan 2011.

All the references to Whitney potentially starring in Exhale sequel before Prince's concert and after for the most part has been met with positivity. When Angela Bassett did the talk show about Whitney coming back to the movie, all the headlines and there were hundreds focused on Whitney not Lela, not Loretta. As I have said, she has some issues to work on and she's doing that. She looks great. I put it to you, a few good vocal performances on tv will do wonders to her career and she is working on that.

As I have said, her career is not destroyed. Her vocals are damanged but not beyond repair. She just has to be committed to do the work that is required. mary J blige did it and Chaka did it. It can be done. Obviously, people haven't written her off even going by this thread, interest in her remains immense which is sort of the point!

[Edited 8/3/11 9:25am]

ufoclub said:

Maybe because she has no cool cutting edge songs or performances that paved the way?

That is subjective and she certainly doesn't have anything as defining as MJ's Motown 25 Billie Jean and moonwalk,

however, her LIVE rendition of 'One Moment in time' at the Grammys won her an Emmy award. Not too many singers can claim an emmy award.

her rendition of the National Anthem at superbowl has been cited by many, many publications and reporters, historians as the standard. I'd say that that performance was pretty defining in her career and for the country.

Anyone who performs the NA to this day are immediately compared to her version. Hows that for having a defining standard!

All the more incredible because she is not a dancer or muscician but was still able to move people.

Entertainer said:

ufoclub said:

Maybe because she has no cool cutting edge songs or performances that paved the way?

That is subjective and she certainly doesn't have anything as defining as MJ's Motown 25 Billie Jean and moonwalk,

however, her LIVE rendition of 'One Moment in time' at the Grammys won her an Emmy award. Not too many singers can claim an emmy award.

her rendition of the National Anthem at superbowl has been cited by many, many publications and reporters, historians as the standard. I'd say that that performance was pretty defining in her career and for the country.

Anyone who performs the NA to this day are immediately compared to her version. Hows that for having a defining standard!

All the more incredible because she is not a dancer or muscician but was still able to move people.

That's more of the type of thing a broadway show singer impresses an old school crowd with. The pop/rock arena is more about conceptual achievements, not singing ability.

People like Jackson, Prince, or Madonna released songs and videos like Thriller, Kiss, Vogue that are conceptually cutting edge in terms of the song approach and the videos. Houston was someone that (and I was in high school in the 80's) was more about non-creative innocent top 40. Two of her biggest singles were covers! And she did them in the most bland way possible from a creative standpoint. Although the three superstars mentioned did dwell into bubble gum pop, they also tried to push things into a creative original realm from time to time. It's about creative thoughtfulness/creative intellect. And even as far as singing technique, it's not like Houston invented anything new.

Someone around here either works for the Houston PR brigade or is Whitney's self-appointed apologist...

Lord, this Shitney worship is bringing vomit up to my throat.

purplethunder3121 said:

Someone around here either works for the Houston PR brigade or is Whitney's self-appointed apologist...

Or Shitney herself.

ufoclub said:

Entertainer said:

That is subjective and she certainly doesn't have anything as defining as MJ's Motown 25 Billie Jean and moonwalk,

however, her LIVE rendition of 'One Moment in time' at the Grammys won her an Emmy award. Not too many singers can claim an emmy award.

her rendition of the National Anthem at superbowl has been cited by many, many publications and reporters, historians as the standard. I'd say that that performance was pretty defining in her career and for the country.

Anyone who performs the NA to this day are immediately compared to her version. Hows that for having a defining standard!

All the more incredible because she is not a dancer or muscician but was still able to move people.

That's more of the type of thing a broadway show singer impresses an old school crowd with. The pop/rock arena is more about conceptual achievements, not singing ability.

People like Jackson, Prince, or Madonna released songs and videos like Thriller, Kiss, Vogue that are conceptually cutting edge in terms of the song approach and the videos. Houston was someone that (and I was in high school in the 80's) was more about non-creative innocent top 40. Two of her biggest singles were covers! And she did them in the most bland way possible from a creative standpoint. Although the three superstars mentioned did dwell into bubble gum pop, they also tried to push things into a creative original realm from time to time. It's about creative thoughtfulness/creative intellect. And even as far as singing technique, it's not like Houston invented anything new.

Well now, you can't have it both ways. You said she didn't have any " cool cutting edge songs or performances that paved the way?" and i clearly presented to you her NA performance that certainly paved the way for singers of that song after her as she is the definitive standard. It may not be your world of music but it's fact.

AGain, pop is not the only music world that exists and the topic didn't differentiate by saying it had to be from the pop genre. There is a whole world of music outside of pop/rock. Her 'it's not right but okay' was certainly definitive for her as was her performance at Divas 99 that got her rave reviews. It saw her 'performing' not just singing ballads but incorporating dance steps all while singing live with great vocals. She got rave reviews and I don't recall any other diva doing what she did that night. Again, not your world but effective.

You keep referring to her music of th e 1980s and innocent top 40 which tells me you can't be familiar with her work from her 'my love is your love' cd that won her a grammy. Songs like 'Heartbreak Hotel' and 'My love is your love' or even the collaboration with Lauryn Hill on the stevie Wonder 'i was made to love him ' hidden track is so far off from pop it's laughable. Both the prior songs hit and hit big as well as 'its not right but its okay' and they are all very, very urban with mliyl having a reggae tinge which she delivered authentically. Whitney singing in a biting way the hard autobiographical lyrics of it's not right but it's ok had her stepping outside her boundaries and the song resonated both on the charts here and globally as well as on the dance floor. it crossed 3 genres, pop, dance and urban. Same with 'my love is your love.

Regarding her videos, she was never known as a ground breaking video artist although 'how will i know', 'i wanna dance with somebody' got lots of play on MTV and remain her most innovative videos as well as 'i'm your baby tonight'

She is not just an ac/pop singer. Her work on 'Just whitney' mixed pop and r&b same with some of the songs from 'i look to you'. in fact, i'd say whitney is more of an r&b artist now than a pop artist.

BTW, MJ did tons of schlock/poppy songs and many were not as hard hitting urban as we know it. Yes Thriller is groundbreaking but i'd say more for the video and the narration. There was nothing special about the song itself to me.

Entertainer said:

SoulAlive said:

I hate to say this,but these days,people have a totally different view of Whitney Houston.In the 80s and early 90s,she was America's Sweetheart,singing all those sweet ballads with that mighty voice.These days,she is considered a trainwreck....someone who took drugs,married and divoreced Bobby Brown,destroyed her voice and her career.Remember her supposed "comeback" last year? Her tour was such a disaster that she didn't dare bring it to America! Everybody was talking about how she had ruined her voice.THAT'S how people think of her these days.She's no longer in the press because of her talent.She's in the press for being seen drunk at a Prince concert.So,when you talk about her "popularity" these days,make sure you're clear on why she's popular and why she's still getting press.

yes, much of what you say is true and as i've said people don't talk about you unless there is continued interest. when the press stops, then someone's career is non-existant. The flip said of that is that people continue to pull for her and she is still very much in the press, blogs and tv for just being herself.

Because you don't see it or only perk up when you hear about the Prince story that took on a life of it's own with crazy press then that is on you. Whitney being seen at an airport by paps are covered, and shows up on blogs. Whitney's only professional gig work after the Prince story was at the Prince's party which was covered on E tv, tons of blogs, UK press and the like and was favorably responded to. Whitney got BET Celebration of Gospel their highest rating with her appearance in Jan 2011.

All the references to Whitney potentially starring in Exhale sequel before Prince's concert and after for the most part has been met with positivity. When Angela Bassett did the talk show about Whitney coming back to the movie, all the headlines and there were hundreds focused on Whitney not Lela, not Loretta. As I have said, she has some issues to work on and she's doing that. She looks great. I put it to you, a few good vocal performances on tv will do wonders to her career and she is working on that.

As I have said, her career is not destroyed. Her vocals are damanged but not beyond repair. She just has to be committed to do the work that is required. mary J blige did it and Chaka did it. It can be done. Obviously, people haven't written her off even going by this thread, interest in her remains immense which is sort of the point!

I don't know if her career is destroyed but it won't be the way it used to be.She certainly won't be able to tour anymore.Her voice is shot.She can't even hit most of those notes anymore.

ufoclub said:

Entertainer said:

That is subjective and she certainly doesn't have anything as defining as MJ's Motown 25 Billie Jean and moonwalk,

however, her LIVE rendition of 'One Moment in time' at the Grammys won her an Emmy award. Not too many singers can claim an emmy award.

her rendition of the National Anthem at superbowl has been cited by many, many publications and reporters, historians as the standard. I'd say that that performance was pretty defining in her career and for the country.

Anyone who performs the NA to this day are immediately compared to her version. Hows that for having a defining standard!

All the more incredible because she is not a dancer or muscician but was still able to move people.

That's more of the type of thing a broadway show singer impresses an old school crowd with. The pop/rock arena is more about conceptual achievements, not singing ability.

People like Jackson, Prince, or Madonna released songs and videos like Thriller, Kiss, Vogue that are conceptually cutting edge in terms of the song approach and the videos. Houston was someone that (and I was in high school in the 80's) was more about non-creative innocent top 40. Two of her biggest singles were covers! And she did them in the most bland way possible from a creative standpoint. Although the three superstars mentioned did dwell into bubble gum pop, they also tried to push things into a creative original realm from time to time. It's about creative thoughtfulness/creative intellect. And even as far as singing technique, it's not like Houston invented anything new.

I think that the history books would beg to differ. It is written abouther debut that it was like a breath of fresh air for no one was singing the way she was singing combining soul with gospel tinges and doing melismic runs and trills. Her debut is heralded as one of the best debuts and one of the music defining moments, not my words but historians and authors of those so called lists and milestones.

It was the combination of her singing, her looks and her pedigree that catapulted her and why on virtually every episode of 'unsung' female artists utter her name and say that their label was trying to mold them into the 'next whitney houston'. That is never said that anyone was trying to mold whitney to be the next anything. She is the blueprint, ask Mariah and her camp.

SoulAlive said:

Entertainer said:

yes, much of what you say is true and as i've said people don't talk about you unless there is continued interest. when the press stops, then someone's career is non-existant. The flip said of that is that people continue to pull for her and she is still very much in the press, blogs and tv for just being herself.

Because you don't see it or only perk up when you hear about the Prince story that took on a life of it's own with crazy press then that is on you. Whitney being seen at an airport by paps are covered, and shows up on blogs. Whitney's only professional gig work after the Prince story was at the Prince's party which was covered on E tv, tons of blogs, UK press and the like and was favorably responded to. Whitney got BET Celebration of Gospel their highest rating with her appearance in Jan 2011.

All the references to Whitney potentially starring in Exhale sequel before Prince's concert and after for the most part has been met with positivity. When Angela Bassett did the talk show about Whitney coming back to the movie, all the headlines and there were hundreds focused on Whitney not Lela, not Loretta. As I have said, she has some issues to work on and she's doing that. She looks great. I put it to you, a few good vocal performances on tv will do wonders to her career and she is working on that.

As I have said, her career is not destroyed. Her vocals are damanged but not beyond repair. She just has to be committed to do the work that is required. mary J blige did it and Chaka did it. It can be done. Obviously, people haven't written her off even going by this thread, interest in her remains immense which is sort of the point!

I don't know if her career is destroyed but it won't be the way it used to be.She certainly won't be able to tour anymore.Her voice is shot.She can't even hit most of those notes anymore.

Anybody looking for the bodygurad vocals to be restored is smoking what she was smoking

especially as it is believed that touring for those 2 years is what inflicted the most damage on her vocals, singing when sick, singing when doctor told her to cancel etc.

However, i'd bet you that she will tour again and that people will pay to see her and that it will be successful. I don't think she will do a major tour again, perhaps spot dates. Her voice is not gone. Don't buy into the hype, with smoking cessating and vocal coaching much of her range and her tendancy to skip a register can be restored.

Of course her career won't be the same. I don't even think she wants that. She is a part recluse who hardly comes out and shuns publicity. I think she will continue to make sporadic albums and do about 2 more movies.

Actually, she still has her head voice in tack and she can absolutely hit notes when she is rested and has everything in order I've heard them countless time on tour and i mean this recent tour. Don't regurgitate what you hear or baste on one or two clips that you hear.

You know I'm actually sad at what's happened to Whitney. I do think she had (and probably still does have) potential to do something that would prove she's an artist but she was never prepared for celebrity and stardom. I think the level of celebrity Whitney achieved was something I don't even think we could handle so imagine putting yourselves in the shoes of a teenager being guided by Clive Davis to superstardom with no backing of how to handle it once the fame dies down. She surely was big for her time but now most of the time it's for her antics and not so much how great her next album is.

Entertainer said:

SoulAlive said:

I don't know if her career is destroyed but it won't be the way it used to be.She certainly won't be able to tour anymore.Her voice is shot.She can't even hit most of those notes anymore.

Anybody looking for the bodygurad vocals to be restored is smoking what she was smoking

especially as it is believed that touring for those 2 years is what inflicted the most damage on her vocals, singing when sick, singing when doctor told her to cancel etc.

However, i'd bet you that she will tour again and that people will pay to see her and that it will be successful. I don't think she will do a major tour again, perhaps spot dates. Her voice is not gone. Don't buy into the hype, with smoking cessating and vocal coaching much of her range and her tendancy to skip a register can be restored.

Of course her career won't be the same. I don't even think she wants that. She is a part recluse who hardly comes out and shuns publicity. I think she will continue to make sporadic albums and do about 2 more movies.

Actually, she still has her head voice in tack and she can absolutely hit notes when she is rested and has everything in order I've heard them countless time on tour and i mean this recent tour. Don't regurgitate what you hear or baste on one or two clips that you hear.

My problem with Whitney nowadays is that she seems to think prayer and water could help her get her voice back. I think also she rushed into touring too quickly. Vocally she wasn't ready and I still think she needs to learn how to use it in a way where it's powerful but it doesn't sound like she's shouting at you.

Timmy84 said:

Entertainer said:

Anybody looking for the bodygurad vocals to be restored is smoking what she was smoking

especially as it is believed that touring for those 2 years is what inflicted the most damage on her vocals, singing when sick, singing when doctor told her to cancel etc.

However, i'd bet you that she will tour again and that people will pay to see her and that it will be successful. I don't think she will do a major tour again, perhaps spot dates. Her voice is not gone. Don't buy into the hype, with smoking cessating and vocal coaching much of her range and her tendancy to skip a register can be restored.

Of course her career won't be the same. I don't even think she wants that. She is a part recluse who hardly comes out and shuns publicity. I think she will continue to make sporadic albums and do about 2 more movies.

Actually, she still has her head voice in tack and she can absolutely hit notes when she is rested and has everything in order I've heard them countless time on tour and i mean this recent tour. Don't regurgitate what you hear or baste on one or two clips that you hear.

My problem with Whitney nowadays is that she seems to think prayer and water could help her get her voice back. I think also she rushed into touring too quickly. Vocally she wasn't ready and I still think she needs to learn how to use it in a way where it's powerful but it doesn't sound like she's shouting at you.

Blame Clive Davis for that crap! Whitney told him once before that it was no need for her to do anymore music giving that Clive's other talents Alicia, Kelly, & Fantasia were still out in the public eye. But greedy pimp Clive wanted his chocolate valley girl back so badly that.............well, Whitney's drug damaged vocals: failed!!!

Timmy84 said:

Entertainer said:

Anybody looking for the bodygurad vocals to be restored is smoking what she was smoking

especially as it is believed that touring for those 2 years is what inflicted the most damage on her vocals, singing when sick, singing when doctor told her to cancel etc.

However, i'd bet you that she will tour again and that people will pay to see her and that it will be successful. I don't think she will do a major tour again, perhaps spot dates. Her voice is not gone. Don't buy into the hype, with smoking cessating and vocal coaching much of her range and her tendancy to skip a register can be restored.

Of course her career won't be the same. I don't even think she wants that. She is a part recluse who hardly comes out and shuns publicity. I think she will continue to make sporadic albums and do about 2 more movies.

Actually, she still has her head voice in tack and she can absolutely hit notes when she is rested and has everything in order I've heard them countless time on tour and i mean this recent tour. Don't regurgitate what you hear or baste on one or two clips that you hear.

My problem with Whitney nowadays is that she seems to think prayer and water could help her get her voice back. I think also she rushed into touring too quickly. Vocally she wasn't ready and I still think she needs to learn how to use it in a way where it's powerful but it doesn't sound like she's shouting at you.

well actually she would be correct with water helping and she should continue to drink as much of it as she can. It's proven and advised by ENTs and vocal coaches for singers to drink as much water as possible to stay hydrated and to keep the vocal chords moist so she's doing the right thing.

Yes, she does seem to rely on prayer quite a bit but if you follow AA, it's part of their mantra to cling to a higher power plus the church is her roots. she seem to be moving towards getting extra help with her voluntarily going back to rehab and her being seen at the doctors office in california several times this year.

I don't think that she is just walking by faith this time.

Regarding what the public thinks and bad press, to be quite honest, she has always had bad press for years and she still did well. The public and the media plays a weird dance with her. They will diss her when she is down and even when she is up the media will but when she reappears she seems to have a firm base that will support her no matter what and the haters continue to look, can't seem to not look away as evidenced by some in this thread. Watch, 5, 4,3,2......some will reappear.

I know she's been seeing the doctor a lot. Anyway, I wish her well.

LMFAO at the new Crackney stan.

jsluva said:

jsluva said:

If I were to rank the 80's stars on what they accomplished in the 80's alone it would be

1. Michael

2. Madonna

3. Prince

4. Whitney

yeah, sure: Springsteen, Tina, DuranDuran

^^^

I'll give you Bruce Springsteen for the 80's(although Whitney passed him up overall) but I'm sticking to her being bigger than Tina and Duran Duran. I remember Whitney's name being called as the winner for almost every damn award she was nominated for during her 80's reign. Keep in mind, as big as Madonna, Tina and every female before Whitney, it was Whitney's second album that was the first from a female to debut #1.

Whitney Houston 1985 (14 weeks #1 on Billboard)

13 million US

Three #1 singles and a #3 single

23 million worldwide

Whitney 1987 (11 weeks #1 on Billboard)

9 million US

Four #1 singles

19 million worldwide

Bottom line, she was everwhere during mid-late 80's and I remember getting tired of her by 88 and more into Janet by then.

I agree 100%. But its obvious this board is biased since there are always Whitney haters on here for some reason. And plus the fact that she did all of that with only two albums in such a short timeframe (about 4 years) definitely puts her in that "BIG FOUR"

Not only that but whitney is one of the few women of the 80's onward to win a Grammy in all of the major caterogies:

Album of the Year'

Record of the Year

Pop Vocal of the year (3xs)

R&b vocal of the year

etc

there have been few women who have won a grammy in the major categories and fewer women of color and in an era when there were fewer grammy categories and they weren't handed out like water as they are now.

Even maddy with her 7 hasn't acheived that, most of her wins are for videos/dance album and 3 (still can't believe Madonna has only won 3 AMAs', almost unbelievable) American Music Awards vs Whitney's 22 which is the most acheived by a woman, right up there with MJ in terms of impact and the amount:

Artists that won most awards

The record for most American Music Awards won held by Michael Jackson who has amassed twenty-six awards (twenty-four as solo artist), including one for "Artist of the Century", but not the poll of "Artist of the '80s". The most American Music Awards for a group belongs to Alabama who have collected twenty-three awards and for a female artist belongs to Whitney Houston with twenty-two awards.^{[1][6][7][8][9][10][11][12]}

The record for the most American Music Awards won in a single year is held by both Michael Jackson (in 1984), and Whitney Houston (in 1994), each with 8 awards to their credit (including the Award of Merit, with which both artists were honored in the respective years).

Billboard Awards which is based on sales and charts:

Most awards

The artists with the most Billboard Music Awards are:

• Janet Jackson - 34 awards
• Michael Jackson - 31 awards
• Mariah Carey - 30 awards (tie)
• Whitney Houston - 30 awards (tie)
• Garth Brooks - 25 awards
• Backstreet Boys - 24 awards
• Usher - 22 awards
• Mary J. Blige - 20 awards
• Destiny's Child - 19 awards
• Rihanna - 18 awards
• Eminem - 17 awards
• Madonna - 16 awards
• Carrie Underwood - 16 awards
• LeAnn Rimes - 12 awards
• Beyoncé Knowles - 11 awards
• Alicia Keys - 10 awards
• Britney Spears - 10 awards

[edit] Records

• Janet Jackson is the award show's biggest winning artist to date.
• Michael Jackson is the award show's biggest winning male artist to date.
• Backstreet Boys is the award show's biggest winning group to date.

In any one year the biggest winners are:

• Usher - 14 (2004) (tie)
• Michael Jackson - 13 (1983)
• Whitney Houston - 11 (1993) (tie)
• Kelly Clarkson - 11 (2005) (tie)
• Janet Jackson - 10 (1990)
• Destiny's Child - 9 (2001) (tie)
• Mary J. Blige - 9 (2006) (tie)
• Lady Gaga - 9 (2009) (tie)
• Ashanti - 8 (2002)
• Alicia Keys - 8 (2004)
• Ke$ha - 8 (2010)

Just to remind folks how Whitney both dominated in the 80's and part of the 90's. The evidence is clear.

[Edited 8/3/11 20:49pm]

The Voice!!!

TonyVanDam said:

Timmy84 said:

My problem with Whitney nowadays is that she seems to think prayer and water could help her get her voice back. I think also she rushed into touring too quickly. Vocally she wasn't ready and I still think she needs to learn how to use it in a way where it's powerful but it doesn't sound like she's shouting at you.

Blame Clive Davis for that crap! Whitney told him once before that it was no need for her to do anymore music giving that Clive's other talents Alicia, Kelly, & Fantasia were still out in the public eye. But greedy pimp Clive wanted his chocolate valley girl back so badly that.............well, Whitney's drug damaged vocals: failed!!!

The chocolate valley girl and Clive Davis with his old silver balls.

mrjun18 said:

jsluva said:

yeah, sure: Springsteen, Tina, DuranDuran

^^^

I'll give you Bruce Springsteen for the 80's(although Whitney passed him up overall) but I'm sticking to her being bigger than Tina and Duran Duran. I remember Whitney's name being called as the winner for almost every damn award she was nominated for during her 80's reign. Keep in mind, as big as Madonna, Tina and every female before Whitney, it was Whitney's second album that was the first from a female to debut #1.

Whitney Houston 1985 (14 weeks #1 on Billboard)

13 million US

Three #1 singles and a #3 single

23 million worldwide

Whitney 1987 (11 weeks #1 on Billboard)

9 million US

Four #1 singles

19 million worldwide

Bottom line, she was everwhere during mid-late 80's and I remember getting tired of her by 88 and more into Janet by then.

I agree 100%. But its obvious this board is biased since there are always Whitney haters on here for some reason. And plus the fact that she did all of that with only two albums in such a short timeframe (about 4 years) definitely puts her in that "BIG FOUR"

No one I knew back in the 80's was obsessed with Whitney Houston even if they bought her tape. But you can bet people were obsessing of Jackson, Madonna, Prince, Springsteen, Duran Duran... lyrics, posters, haircuts, clothing. There was a guy in our school who starting wearing boots, trenchcoat, and driving a motorcycle after Purple Rain.

Houston just didn't have that kind of grip with her stuff. She was more cool to moms.

Timmy84 said:

You know I'm actually sad at what's happened to Whitney. I do think she had (and probably still does have) potential to do something that would prove she's an artist but she was never prepared for celebrity and stardom. I think the level of celebrity Whitney achieved was something I don't even think we could handle so imagine putting yourselves in the shoes of a teenager being guided by Clive Davis to superstardom with no backing of how to handle it once the fame dies down. She surely was big for her time but now most of the time it's for her antics and not so much how great her next album is.

It is sad. Eventhough I made some negative comments about Whitney in this thread (which was really a reaction to the MJ insults, sorry I am a big MJ stan lol), I am a fan and don't like seeing what's happened to her personally and career wise. I think she is by far one of the most gifted and talented singers of all time.

I think If Cher and Tina Turner could make huge comebacks, so can Whitney. I think the problem with this last comeback is that Whitney was not ready. She still had personal issues going on and seemed like she felt pressured by Clive and the public to make a comeback, but she wasn't ready.

Now I don't think her voice will ever be what it was, it just wont, however I think Whitney's more than capable of releasing an album with good material again and solid vocals. I'm not gonna write her off yet at all like many have. I still think Whitney can make a comeback and I honestly hope she does.

I sitll can't believe there are people here who don't think Whitney is a bigger star than Aretha/Stevie. I mean Whitney got a two day special on Oprah's season premiere, where as Aretha got a two day interview on Wendy Williams, and it was only 15 minutes on each show lol. I mean lets be real, Aretha is def more legendary and respected, and rightfully so but she is still not the star Whitney is and neither is Stevie. With all the crap Whitney's been through 2000-2009 she still has a loyal fan base and still has the person of interest factor. If she can put out some quality projects whether it be music or movies she we will be okay and can have a solid career again, maybe not like her prime years but at least a solid career.

jsluva said:

I sitll can't believe there are people here who don't think Whitney is a bigger star than Aretha/Stevie. I mean Whitney got a two day special on Oprah's season premiere, where as Aretha got a two day interview on Wendy Williams, and it was only 15 minutes on each show lol. I mean lets be real, Aretha is def more legendary and respected, and rightfully so but she is still not the star Whitney is and neither is Stevie. With all the crap Whitney's been through 2000-2009 she still has a loyal fan base and still has the person of interest factor. If she can put out some quality projects whether it be music or movies she we will be okay and can have a solid career again, maybe not like her prime years but at least a solid career.

You'd have to go to some third world country and do a poll to judge who is the bigger star out of Stevie, Aretha, or Whitney. That is how you could judge pop power, when it breaks the bounds of American/Euro -centric cultural and economic bounderies.

Cinnamon234 said:

Timmy84 said:

You know I'm actually sad at what's happened to Whitney. I do think she had (and probably still does have) potential to do something that would prove she's an artist but she was never prepared for celebrity and stardom. I think the level of celebrity Whitney achieved was something I don't even think we could handle so imagine putting yourselves in the shoes of a teenager being guided by Clive Davis to superstardom with no backing of how to handle it once the fame dies down. She surely was big for her time but now most of the time it's for her antics and not so much how great her next album is.

It is sad. Eventhough I made some negative comments about Whitney in this thread (which was really a reaction to the MJ insults, sorry I am a big MJ stan lol), I am a fan and don't like seeing what's happened to her personally and career wise. I think she is by far one of the most gifted and talented singers of all time.

I think If Cher and Tina Turner could make huge comebacks, so can Whitney. I think the problem with this last comeback is that Whitney was not ready. She still had personal issues going on and seemed like she felt pressured by Clive and the public to make a comeback, but she wasn't ready.

Now I don't think her voice will ever be what it was, it just wont, however I think Whitney's more than capable of releasing an album with good material again and solid vocals. I'm not gonna write her off yet at all like many have. I still think Whitney can make a comeback and I honestly hope she does.

Who dissed MJ in this thread? Most Whitney fans heart MJ! In fact, as a MJ fan surely you know that on her tour, for 46 dates, she tributed him not only in song, every night but also a speech about him. She didn't have to do that, every night. she dedicated 'A Song for you' and switched the lyrics up to reference MJ, half way through, she did her speech honoring MJ and reminding the public that he have 5 decades of his life. Also, she did short performances of 'wanna be starting something' and another song. She also hired 2 of his dancers from 'This is it' to be a part of her 4 dancers on tour.

She is one star who didn't run to the cameras to talk about MJ and then stopped after they left. She honored him on her time and for 7mths on tour, every date!

I do agree that she can and will still have a solid career. Aretha, and several other stars don't sound like their prime and I don't think that the public expects that of her. As long as she can sing publicly without cracks and hit her notes like on the cd, she will be fine. She is a decent actress so I think her movie career will be fine. Many here seem to think she looks like a washed up drug addled star when that is not the truth. When glammed and out,she still looks fabu as in that BET Honors party with her in the black above 2009 Dec.

I wanted to add to your point that i agree she was pushed out before she was ready and by her own words,s he wanted to retire but clive, her mom and fans pushed her back. The tour inhind sight probably wasn't a good idea with so many dates back to back it was too much for her fragile voice. It was a bit sad seeing some of the clips of her trying her hardest to push out those notes and working so hard to do something she did so easily in her past. To her credit, she was incredibly nice and giving to her fans. it's sad that on many good nights, the media didn't cover or chose not to cover and to sensationalize other aspects. It's amazing that she never cancelled any dates.

[Edited 8/4/11 7:21am]

ufoclub said:

jsluva said:

I sitll can't believe there are people here who don't think Whitney is a bigger star than Aretha/Stevie. I mean Whitney got a two day special on Oprah's season premiere, where as Aretha got a two day interview on Wendy Williams, and it was only 15 minutes on each show lol. I mean lets be real, Aretha is def more legendary and respected, and rightfully so but she is still not the star Whitney is and neither is Stevie. With all the crap Whitney's been through 2000-2009 she still has a loyal fan base and still has the person of interest factor. If she can put out some quality projects whether it be music or movies she we will be okay and can have a solid career again, maybe not like her prime years but at least a solid career.

You'd have to go to some third world country and do a poll to judge who is the bigger star out of Stevie, Aretha, or Whitney. That is how you could judge pop power, when it breaks the bounds of American/Euro -centric cultural and economic bounderies.

I see that you have conceeded the argument that at least in the US, Whitney is the biggest star of the 3, not the most legendary or iconic but biggest star. Just to add, on Oprah's show, Whitney's interview was the highest rated and it was also impacted by a cut into the Program based on I believe tennis in some markets. Consumers were so enraged that they missed part of the Whitney interview, they let Oprah know and she had to addressed it stating that it will be reaired in those markets.

I'd bet money that Whitney is more popular than both stevie and Aretha in Africa, Caribeen and other less industrialized nations. in regards to Europe, we really don't have to look beyond from 2000-2009 where her output was the least in terms of product and personal promo, she still sold close to 20mil cds, not records, cds WW. I won't ask what Aretah and Stevie sold and sales is a measure to a large extent of popularity. Newspapers. tabloids and entertainment shows still cover Whitney extensively in Europe especially the UK and Germany.