My vote goes to Jamie Foxx. For whatever reason, he chooses to do the music that he is doing instead of the music that he is capable of, like his debut, "Peep This".

[img:$uid]http://www.originalbuzz.info/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/black-eyed-peas-wireless.jpg[/img:$uid]

I liked the Joints n' Jams B.E.P. Then they transformed into this pop garbage group and haven't looked back since.

And Tank does what Jamie Foxx does, only better. Jamie wanted to be famous. That's what he got. Just because someone has talent doesn't mena they take music seriously. He COULD do better music and has done better here and there but he seems to care more about the limelight than music so I don't even look at him as a real artist.

vainandy said:

Tone it down Shitney. You sound too black. You want a crossover hit don't you?

That's a really offensive thing to say.

I'd go with Jewel or Nellie Furtado...or Tori Amos' face.

sosgemini said:

vainandy said:

Tone it down Shitney. You sound too black. You want a crossover hit don't you?

That's a really offensive thing to say.

I think he meant that is what Clive was saying to HER.

sosgemini said:

I'd go with Jewel or Nellie Furtado...or Tori Amos' face.

You think it's offensive to say that someone "sounds too black" and yet you say that about Tori Amos`face?

BlaqueKnight said:

sosgemini said:

That's a really offensive thing to say.

I think he meant that is what Clive was saying to HER.

Yeah, I know...I got an issue with this whole stereotyping of what we black people should sound like. So what if Whitney went a less gospel/emotional route. It doesn't make her less black. That's my issue. You wanna say Whitney is bland? Go ahead. You want to see she's a bottom feeder, super! The minute you say she sounds "less black", well---that makes me uncomfortable. You know what I mean?

rialb said:

sosgemini said:

I'd go with Jewel or Nellie Furtado...or Tori Amos' face.

You think it's offensive to say that someone "sounds too black" and yet you say that about Tori Amos`face?

I have no problem with plastic surgery. Heck, i've done it myself. But she's crossed a line beyond what's healthy IMHO and I don't equate plastic surgery with stereotyping what an entire race of people should sound like. Do you?

sosgemini said:

vainandy said:

Tone it down Shitney. You sound too black. You want a crossover hit don't you?

That's a really offensive thing to say.

Not even close. Calling Whitney a "chocolate covered California valley girl from New Jersey" is THE ultimate insult!

sosgemini said:

rialb said:

You think it's offensive to say that someone "sounds too black" and yet you say that about Tori Amos`face?

I have no problem with plastic surgery. Heck, i've done it myself. But she's crossed a line beyond what's healthy IMHO and I don't equate plastic surgery with stereotyping what an entire race of people should sound like. Do you?

Just struck me a little odd that you found a fairly innocuos comment to be offensive and in your next post you insulted Tori Amos' face.

rialb said:

sosgemini said:

I have no problem with plastic surgery. Heck, i've done it myself. But she's crossed a line beyond what's healthy IMHO and I don't equate plastic surgery with stereotyping what an entire race of people should sound like. Do you?

Just struck me a little odd that you found a fairly innocuos comment to be offensive and in your next post you insulted Tori Amos' face.

Context is everything. When you have an individual continually "ride" someone for not being "black enough", all the while using stereotypes of what a black person is, well....it caught my attention.

sosgemini said:

BlaqueKnight said:

I think he meant that is what Clive was saying to HER.

Yeah, I know...I got an issue with this whole stereotyping of what we black people should sound like. So what if Whitney went a less gospel/emotional route. It doesn't make her less black. That's my issue. You wanna say Whitney is bland? Go ahead. You want to see she's a bottom feeder, super! The minute you say she sounds "less black", well---that makes me uncomfortable. You know what I mean?

I understand.

Try to look at it this way: there is always a bit of resentment from a music community when an artist from a certain genre switches styles. That's basically what this thread is about. There is going to be a degree of discontentment with the artist's sound. If a singer went from singing like Luther to singing like Steven Tyler, they would lose fans from the R&B genre because it would appear that they are changing to try to appease a wider audience. I think that is Andy's beef with Whitney. When Andy says "black enough", knowing Andy's musical "blackground", you know what he means.

The same type of backlash happened to Prince when he dropped Purple Rain. It was a big style change from 1999 and he lost some fans over it. He lost even more when he dropped ATWIAD.

Whitney did a big 180 with her second album and while she became more "acceptable", her music sounded like she was an R&B singer for hire instead of sounding more in tune with the genre.

[Edited 7/11/11 23:07pm]

BlaqueKnight said:

I understand.

Try to look at it this way: there is always a bit of resentment from a music community when an artist from a certain genre switches styles. That's basically what this thread is about. There is going to be a degree of discontentment with the artist's sound. If a singer went from singing like Luther to singing like Steven Tyler, they would lose fans from the R&B genre because it would appear that they are changing to try to appease a wider audience. I think that is Andy's beef with Whitney. When Andy says "black enough", knowing Andy's musical "blackground", you know what he means.

The same type of backlash happened to Prince when he dropped Purple Rain. It was a big style change from 1999 and he lost some fans over it. He lost even more when he dropped ATWIAD.

Whitney did a big 180 with her second album and while she became more "acceptable", her music sounded like she was an R&B singer for hire instead of sounding more in tune with the genre.

[Edited 7/11/11 23:07pm]

You really think she did a big 180 with her second album? I have to be honest, I'm only familiar with the singles so maybe the album tracks are less pop but the singles are basically straight pop. I don't really see any difference between "Greatest Love of All" and "Didn't We Almosy Have It All" or "How Will I Know" and "I Wanna Dance With Somebody." That's why I think it's silly to claim that she sold out. Her first album was pop and she continued to be a pop artist throughout her career. Maybe in the late '90s her music started to sound a bit "blacker" but she has essentially always been a pop artist.

"Sounding too Black" hasn't been an issue, less get real; African Americans didn't stereotype ''our sound'', others have. Some of use have been silly enought to buy into somebody else's definition... which sadly isn't new.

My whole pet peeve about African -American artist / musicians needing to "crossover"... to what?

Still, I don't have issues with anyartist / musicians who wishes to explore all types of music too. As Ellington said, There's only two types of music good and bad. Lord knows people accussed Mr. Bob Dylan of being a sellout when he picked up an electric gutiar.. gasp. Was Mr. Ray Charles a sellout when he recorded a couple of CW albums? I'd say not....

On the other hand Lionle Richie, Ron Isely, and to some degree Luther Vandross in my opinion recorded some music that was so weak and grasping it was embarrasing. (imo)

==================

[Edited 7/12/11 4:49am]

TD3 said:

"Sounding too Black" hasn't been an issue, less get real; African Americans didn't stereotype ''our sound'', others have. Some of use have been silly enought to buy into somebody else's definition... which sadly isn't new.

My whole pet peeve about African -American artist / musicians needing to "crossover"... to what?

Still, I don't have issues with anyartist / musicians who wishes to explore all types of music too. As Ellington said, There's only two types of music good and bad. Lord knows people accussed Mr. Bob Dylan of being a sellout when he picked up an electric gutiar.. gasp. Was Mr. Ray Charles a sellout when he recorded a couple of CW albums? I'd say not....

On the other hand Lionle Richie, Ron Isely, and to some degree Luther Vandross in my opinion recorded some music that was so weak and grasping it was embarrasing. (imo)

==================

[Edited 7/12/11 4:49am]

A bigger audience. The demographics have radically changed over the years but in the '50s-'70s a black artist could stick to raw R & B and be a big star in a small market or they could attempt to appeal to white (pop) audiences and reach a much wider audience.

rialb said:

TD3 said:

"Sounding too Black" hasn't been an issue, less get real; African Americans didn't stereotype ''our sound'', others have. Some of use have been silly enought to buy into somebody else's definition... which sadly isn't new.

My whole pet peeve about African -American artist / musicians needing to "crossover"... to what?

Still, I don't have issues with anyartist / musicians who wishes to explore all types of music too. As Ellington said, There's only two types of music good and bad. Lord knows people accussed Mr. Bob Dylan of being a sellout when he picked up an electric gutiar.. gasp. Was Mr. Ray Charles a sellout when he recorded a couple of CW albums? I'd say not....

On the other hand Lionle Richie, Ron Isely, and to some degree Luther Vandross in my opinion recorded some music that was so weak and grasping it was embarrasing. (imo)

==================

[Edited 7/12/11 4:49am]

A bigger audience. The demographics have radically changed over the years but in the '50s-'70s a black artist could stick to raw R & B and be a big star in a small market or they could attempt to appeal to white (pop) audiences and reach a much wider audience.

Did anyone ask Frank Sinatra, Paul Simon -the list goes on- to crossover?

As I said here before crossover to what... when the music arranged, created, and written by Black artist and musicians has been the foundation USA. As if white audiences in the U.S. weren't "slumming" before this so called demographic change.

TD3 said:

rialb said:

A bigger audience. The demographics have radically changed over the years but in the '50s-'70s a black artist could stick to raw R & B and be a big star in a small market or they could attempt to appeal to white (pop) audiences and reach a much wider audience.

Did anyone ask Frank Sinatra, Paul Simon -the list goes on- to crossover?

As I said here before crossover to what... when the music arranged, created, and written by Black artist and musicians has been the foundation USA. As if white audiences in the U.S. weren't "slumming" before this so called demographic change.

I'm not sure I understand what you are saying, Frank Sinatra and Paul Simon already had the bigger white audience so who would they attempt to crossover to? If they changed their sound to appeal to a black audience it might alienate their bigger white audience so that wouldn't really make much sense.

The music created by black artists is definitely part of the foundation of American music but it is hardly the whole foundation. It's true that many popular white artists were influenced by black artists but the reverse is also true.

rialb said:

I'm not sure I understand what you are saying, Frank Sinatra and Paul Simon already had the bigger white audience so who would they attempt to crossover to? If they changed their sound to appeal to a black audience it might alienate their bigger white audience so that wouldn't really make much sense.

The music created by black artists is definitely part of the foundation of American music but it is hardly the whole foundation. It's true that many popular white artists were influenced by black artists but the reverse is also true.

True, but not equally.

I don't think Bowie ranks that high, because the Let's Dance / Tonight / Never Let Me Down era lasted only a few years and Let's Dance was a pretty nice pop album on its own right. That era seemed to be more due to his difficulties to adapt to the 1980s sound and just putting something out to get over a creatively dry phase.

I don't have much respect for the 80s output of jazz artists like Miles David or Herbie Hancock. There are some decent albums by them from that era too, but too much of it is simply irrelevant and sounds cheap. Miles or Herbie weren't even necessarily the worst offenders of the bunch - there was much worse pop / jazz fluff released during those years.

I been watching you from the start of your career

My favorite radio station played your record when nobody else cared

Now the problem is...

Sucess came around

And it's force over sound and now you're bound

Never turning back

But you should know

What goes up must come down

Me and the boys were trying to get a break

(What does it take to get inside the door?)

And when we finally make it

We will be there to support the life of black radio

---

Searching for a jam on the jam on the radio

When I flicked on the dial

(Why did you change your style?)

One of my favorite singers changed their whole style

Ill tell you the dea

The station had no relation to the radio black

(Unless they crossed over)

If you fall on your face

You'll be coming back

--Full Force portion of "Black Radio"

This song goes right in with this topic

BlaqueKnight said:

rialb said:

I'm not sure I understand what you are saying, Frank Sinatra and Paul Simon already had the bigger white audience so who would they attempt to crossover to? If they changed their sound to appeal to a black audience it might alienate their bigger white audience so that wouldn't really make much sense.

The music created by black artists is definitely part of the foundation of American music but it is hardly the whole foundation. It's true that many popular white artists were influenced by black artists but the reverse is also true.

True, but not equally.

We're kind of getting off topic a bit but I'll just say that I think in the past that black artists' contributions to American music were unfairly neglected, undervalued and ignored. Unfortunately I think that now the pendulum has swung too far in the other direction and there is a perception that white artists have contributed nothing to American music and any success that they have had was as a result of stealing from black artists. Both schools of thought are ridiculous.

rialb said:

BlaqueKnight said:

True, but not equally.

We're kind of getting off topic a bit but I'll just say that I think in the past that black artists' contributions to American music were unfairly neglected, undervalued and ignored. Unfortunately I think that now the pendulum has swung too far in the other direction and there is a perception that white artists have contributed nothing to American music and any success that they have had was as a result of stealing from black artists. Both schools of thought are ridiculous.

I disagree with you that there is a general mindset that the "pendulum has swung too far in the other direction". Black artists are just more popular in general than they have been in the past and they are raising their cultural voices and speaking on their influences, and since they are doing so through more widespread technologies (the internet), more people are becoming aware of truths.

I don't think that anyone would try to make a claim that white artists haven't contributed to American music but it has certainly been an uneven distribution of credit and the power structure that exists in this country has had a large hand in that.

I do think that there is a history revisionist movement going on where people are tying to write out the racism and cultural separation that occured or at least downplay it to make it seem as if it was less impacting than it was in the name of political correctness.

I'm going to step away from this topic but those are my thoughts on it.

As to selling out - I don't consider a change in musical direction or experimenting selling out. I DO consider a financially motivated change in direction selling out.

People can PRETEND that it doesn't happen but it does and I have seen it happen. Pardon me if I don't respect it.

rialb said:

BlaqueKnight said:

True, but not equally.

We're kind of getting off topic a bit but I'll just say that I think in the past that black artists' contributions to American music were unfairly neglected, undervalued and ignored. Unfortunately I think that now the pendulum has swung too far in the other direction and there is a perception that white artists have contributed nothing to American music and any success that they have had was as a result of stealing from black artists. Both schools of thought are ridiculous.

Yeah, selling out can be on both sides...Jessica Simpson and even Shakira tried to do the urban thing soon as they came out...and Lionel gave up his whole background almost on his solo records.

sosgemini said:

vainandy said:

Tone it down Shitney. You sound too black. You want a crossover hit don't you?

That's a really offensive thing to say.

It sure is. She should have never gone along with him.

TonyVanDam said:

sosgemini said:

That's a really offensive thing to say.

Not even close. Calling Whitney a "chocolate covered California valley girl from New Jersey" is THE ultimate insult!

Hey, that was you that came up with that one, not me. I just simply said that she's a rhythmless goodie two shoes little cheerleader plucking rose petals wondering about the football captain...."If he loves me...If he loves me not". But I have said that God played a joke and gave Shitney's soul to Teena Marie and gave Teena's stuffiness to Shitney.

sosgemini said:

rialb said:

Just struck me a little odd that you found a fairly innocuos comment to be offensive and in your next post you insulted Tori Amos' face.

Context is everything. When you have an individual continually "ride" someone for not being "black enough", all the while using stereotypes of what a black person is, well....it caught my attention.

Stereotypes? Hell, I don't care how big it is, if it ain't hairy, I'm throwing it back in the sea with the rest of the fish.

Sellout, what a bullshit term. You can do whatever you want when you've earned your fame.

Timmy84 said:

tritoncin said:

what's a "sellout"?

Someone who sells out a concert ticket and an album sale.

LOL!

Timmy, you always make me laugh!

Thanx

leecappella said:

tritoncin said:

what's a "sellout"?

I was thinking of asking that question as well. I always thought it was someone who did a certain genre of music for a long period of time and then they gradually or suddenly started doing something else (that everyone eles is doing) just so they can sell more records and up their sales. They jumped on a "everyone is doing this" type of bandwagon instead of doing what they have been know for. Something like that, anyway. LOL. I'm not sure, really. However, if that is what it is, I cannot name anyone. An artists should be able to do what they want to do artistically whether it does them good financially or not.

[Edited 7/10/11 7:11am]

So everybody becomes a sellout sooner or later...?

LOL!

Better is to ask, who's not... yet!

comegetwild said:

Iggy Pop... He sells car insurance now. I was never a big fan but it's still kinda tragic.

He's done solo albums and albums with the stooges every two years since 99.