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I like the singles / famous songs, but many of his folkie album tracks are just... 
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in the Justice League!)"Everybody knows by now that there's a gazillion books on me either out or coming out in the near future. So I'm encouraging anybody who's ever met me, heard me or even seen me, to get in on the action and scribble their own book. You never know, somebody might have a great book in them." - Bob Dylan, May 13, 2011
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One Word: Dylan At the request of another orger, I've started this thread. This thread is intended as a place for the uninitiated to begin exploring, and for the true-blue Dylan lovers to share. I know it will attract many Mr. Jones, but I'll do my best to ignore them unless they are adding something useful to the discussion. Those wishing to chime in with the predictable "overrated" rants are encouraged to start a new thread to that effect. I will contribute there as well. (Unlike Jackson, more than one Dylan thread is allowed on the board!) Otherwise either myself or another Dylan lover will label you "Mr. Jones," while having a hearty laugh at your expense, before moving on. That said... There are several Bob Dylan's over the course of his long and varied career, and many (if not most) of them spawned entirely new sub-genres of music. First he took folk music, which up to that point had it's roots in "traditional" music consisting of songs (often by unknown composers) being handed down by word of mouth. The art laid in artist putting their unique spin on well-known material. Dylan took this genre and imbued it with original compositions filled with surrealism, romanticism, humor and introspection. By doing so, this would be the first of several new genres he would single-handedly create: Contemporary Folk Music. He popularized and defined the modern singer-songwriter. That is, the singer who sang deeply of his own personal fears, pains, anger, etc. While he wasn't the first singer to write or the first writer to sing, he alone elevated it to this new level of realism. Before him, singers and songwriters relied (for the most part) on singing about love or using innuendo or cliche (as Cole Porter did) to mask a deeper meaning. Make no mistake, virtually EVERY popular singer-songwriter who ever employed Pop Music as a means to express himself in a deeply personal, existential or highly introspective way, songs owes more than a little to Bob Dylan. Dylan never rested on his laurels. Just as the Folk world was elevating him to god-like status within their musical community, he plugged in and went electric, leaving folk behind and singlehandedly, once again creating an entirely new musical genre: Folk Rock. This genre would essentially remain dominant in the charts for the next 20-30 years. He did this one more time in the 60's with the recording and release of Nashville Skyline, creating the new sub-genre of Country Rock which would spawn countless huge acts in the next decade. Dylan continued to break new ground throughaout his career, creating at least one more sub-genre, Christian Rock, not to mention inventing the modern "boxed set" (Biograph) as a large-scale career retrospective that combines well-known hits with previously unheard "vault" releases from his past. This practice is so ubiquitous these days, that its completely taken for granted. His unreleased "vault" was so renowned by the end of the 60s that it spawned a new industry of "bootleg" unofficial recordings which didn't exist until the first bootleg ever, "Great White Wonder" hit the shelves. The fact that he didn't even create the bootleg industry intentionally and that the bootleg industry spawned despite his best wishes is besides the point. It was the HUNGER for Dylan's unreleased material that spawned this cottage industry. He redefined singing as well, for the first time providing an avenue for singers without traditionally "pretty" voices to be heard and express themselves in a way that was still considered to be beautiful without being "pretty." "Beautiful But Not Pretty" was a still a relatively new concept in even the Fine Arts, let alone Pop Music! All of the above only begins to scratch the surface of Dylan's incomprehensible contribution to music. For the uninitiated, I'm happy to guide you as you begin a lifelong journey... If you can handle it. "There is two kinds of music, the good, and the bad. I play the good kind."
Louis Armstrong | |
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Sounds interesting. Never heard much from this guy, but I feel like digging deeper.
Do you recommend any "starter" albums for the beginner? | |
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I'm not a fan of his folk albums (great songs, anyway, CLASSICS) but his mid-60's electric era is fantastic:
Bringing It All Back Home Highway 61 Revisited Blonde on Blonde and the official "bootleg" Basement Tapes
wow
I don't like Nashville Skyline, but John Wesley Harding is dark, edgy, rusty country, love it...
off the 70's you can't go wrong with Blood on the Tracks and Desire
sadly I can't recommend any 80's album, some good songs, but bad albums...
the 90's-00's trilogy Time Out of Mind, Love and Theft and Modern Times is certainly worth checking out...  | |
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smoothcriminal12 said: Sounds interesting. Never heard much from this guy, but I feel like digging deeper.
Do you recommend any "starter" albums for the beginner? Sure. If you want a compilation, I recommend the first boxed set I mention above, Biograph. It was released as 5 LPs and is now 3 CDs. This was my introduction and I thought at the time it would be all I ever needed. Now I have over 350 albums (including bootlegs) and over 6,000 tracks! If you want something a little more accessible than a box, I would check out the following studio albums: Bringing it All Back Home Blood on the Tracks Highway 61 Revisited Blonde on Blonde That should get you started, although all of his 60's albums are top shelf! [Edited 7/7/11 15:55pm] "There is two kinds of music, the good, and the bad. I play the good kind."
Louis Armstrong | |
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I'm confused, you like the songs but not the albums?
His worst decade, but what about Infidels? Love that one!
Understatement, IMO. Ranks with the best of his work, I feel. "There is two kinds of music, the good, and the bad. I play the good kind."
Louis Armstrong | |
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Joe, would you agree with most of the points in my OP? Hard to discuss Dylan sometimes without resorting to hyperbole. "There is two kinds of music, the good, and the bad. I play the good kind."
Louis Armstrong | |
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yeah I mostly agree yes
he's a TOP guy
the only thing that pisses me off is when some fans (not you) refuse to accept that, like everyone else, he released some crap (80's)... he's human after all, lol | |
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Oh man, I really thought it was over when Down in the Groove came out. I thought it was over for good. That's why the latter day trilogy really comes off that much better to me, perhaps. Speaking of which, hard to talk about my favorite non-album single of the era, the Oscar Winning, "Things Have Changed." Awesome.
Dylan also has the distinction as being one of the worst shows I've ever seen (Dylan and the Dead, Meadowlands '97) and the very best show I've ever seen: his residency at the El Rey in '97, where I was fortunate enough to catch three of the five nights (but unfortunate enough to miss two!)
Not sure if you collect shows, but from '94 to '01 or so... that band was incredible. Wow. The best shows since The Hawks in '66 IMO. Let me know if you would like some recommendations. [Edited 7/7/11 16:16pm] "There is two kinds of music, the good, and the bad. I play the good kind."
Louis Armstrong | |
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I love Dylan too but I think you may be giving him a little too much credit.
There were people doing things similar to what Dylan did in the very early '60s (Pete Seeger, Joan Baez, Dave Van Ronk). Dylan was hugely influenced by them (and others). Yes, by his second album he was writing all original material but even some of his original songs were based on traditional songs and arrangements made popular by his peers. Dylan fairly quickly eclipsed the success of his peers but without them would he have had any base to build upon?
Dylan was influenced big time by the Rolling Stones and other "rock" bands when he went electric. I love those mid '60s albums but they were fairly basic and he didn't really expand on what others were already doing (at least not musically). Further, I would argue that Dylan largely went from Folk to Rock, he didn't necessarily combine them. Obviously he was a huge influence on them but I would argue that the Byrds had as much to do with the creation and popularity of Folk Rock as Dylan did. Their first two albums were largely a combination of Dylan and the Beatles.
Country Rock? I would argue that Gram Parsons/The Byrds/The Flying Burrito Brothers got there at least at the same time as Dylan, arguably before. Certainly a very strong case can be made that Dylan was not solely responsible for the Country Rock genre. The Byrds were arguably doing Country Rock as early as February, 1967 with the Younger Than Yesterday album, particularly Chris Hillman's tracks. You also have to consider Gram Parsons' International Submarine Band.
I love Dylan and there's no doubt that he was hugely influential on several generations of musicians but I also believe it is important to recognise the contributions of others. | |
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Fair enough, on all counts. Dylan was not without his own influences, and the 60's was a musical renaissance in that peers were influencing peers even in different art forms, but...
Regarding the plugging in... I love the other rock bands that were his peers in the mid-60's, Stones, Kinks, Who, etc. but listening to "Albert Hall 1966," it sounds more like a foreshadowing of Hendrix than any of the hard rock that was on the charts up until that time. (Not that it was "released" at the time, of course. But people were still hearing it.) [Edited 7/8/11 0:14am] "There is two kinds of music, the good, and the bad. I play the good kind."
Louis Armstrong | |
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Hendrix? Would you care to expand on that a bit? To be clear you are referring to the fourth volume of the Bootleg Series, right?
It's definitely loud and proto punk sounding. Kind of loose and sloppy, but not in a bad way. I'm not sure that I hear Hendrix in it. | |
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Perhaps that came out wrong; I'm not comparing Dylan to Hendrix, but just saying that the kind of Rock that Dylan and the Hawks were playing in '66, sounds much more as if it has one foot in the future more than it has a foot rooted in the past. I like your term, that it is "loud proto-punk" (or to quote Dylan to Robbie Robertson, just after an audience member calls him a "Judas" for playing Rock, "Play fucking loud.") "There is two kinds of music, the good, and the bad. I play the good kind."
Louis Armstrong | |
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Bob Dylan is the greatest lyricists of our time IMHO.
It took me many years to get into him. I just couldn't get past the whiny voice at times, but a close friend of mine kept telling me how great Bob was and kept lending me cd's and after I while I began to really appreciate his talent for writing and his singing too. He sings with passion and thoughtfulness and his lyrics just blow me away. Even his most recent release is amazing. He is a true musician and the best song-writer in the past 50 years.
Blood on the Tracks is my absolute fav! It's pure genuis. I love all his work, but that one is amazing. | |
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Music doesn't have to be funky to be great Gray! It has to touch your soul and heart. Bob's music does this to those who really appreciate it him. Take a look online at his lyrics and body of work. Both are incredible. You may never like the music and that's fine, but I don't see how anyone can dispute his talent and songwriting genius. | |
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Huge fan, have all of his albums, but I definitely have a weakness for his later period - meaning 1980 and forward.
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Prince's Classic Finally Expanded The Deluxe 'Purple Rain' Reissue http://www.popmatters.com...n-reissue/ | |
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More power 2 Bob and his fans. Everyone has different taste. | |
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For sure, I agree. Prince and Bob are two of my fav musicians. Can't get much different from each other really. | |
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While, I respect his work it's just not for me. When I hear someone sing, they have to, at least, be on key or have some smidgen of talent in that area. If writing/lyrics is the only thing I'm focusing on I might as well read a book of poetry. | |
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Who lied to you? | |
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You should pick up his book of songs/lyrics. It's a beautiful book and it definitely is poetry. | |
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Expand your mind my friend. | |
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I was just kidding. | |
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Dylan is an incredibly talented and influential vocalist. He conveys more meaning and power through inflection and phrasing than any other artist I know. Some of his best vocal performances are absolutely thrilling: Moonshiner, Blind Willie McTell, Ballad of a Thin Man, Series of Dreams, etc... Just to name a very few. His voice isn't Mariah Carey or George Michael, but having "talent" is not all about hitting notes. There are legions of vapid wailers at any karaoke bar or talent contest who can sing on key. With Dylan, the song, the words, the voice - it's a package. When he's on, it's pure magic.
He inspired legions of vocalists that came after him; it's not just his songwriting abilities that has allowed him to have the astonishing career he has had. The man's been performing for 50 years. To say he has no talent in that area is simply incorrect.
My mother always used to say "TINA TURNER CAN'T SING!!!!" And I would say, "Well, no - you might not like or appreciate her voice, but that doesn't man she can't sing." Same with Dylan.
Sadly, Dylan's voice is shot now, from age, overuse, smoking.. He isn't able to do what he used to do. I had the chance to see him last year, and while I enjoyed it greatly, I only wish that he sounded like he did even 10 years ago. There has been a significant decline.
But as far as powerful vocal performances that can leave the hair standing up on my arms (in a good way, heh), Dylan has some of the best.
"Blind Willie McTell" is my favorite, I think. I love listening to that song in a dark room, on headphones, in the pure quiet, turned up.... The tension in that song... it's all in the words, the voice, the way he sings it. Amazing.
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And we have the thread's first "Mr. Jones!!"
[Edited 7/8/11 12:15pm] "There is two kinds of music, the good, and the bad. I play the good kind."
Louis Armstrong | |
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For me the voice was never a problem. Just to pick a random example someone like Celine Dion has a voice that from a technical standpoint is virtually flawless. However, I think I would rather listen to the sound of my head being repeatedly slammed in a car door than one of her albums. Her music is just cold and souless and I get no pleasure from listening to it. Dylan may not be a great vocalist from a technical standpoint but he really makes you feel and believe his words. | |
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Such a misconception that Dylan can't sing. I've found most of the people who have had this perception, immediately quote his line from "We Are the World," as some sort of indiction. Of course, we all know that's not the real Dylan. (My theory has always been that he entered the project begrugingly, and was actually ridiculing the song, the writers and the project with his mock-delivery. We all know Dylan loved to ridicule his "peers" [he really had none] on occasion, and that putting Dylan in USA for Africa, is kind of like putting
I would go as far to say that Dylan's as a vocalist (at his best, which was often) is virtuosic, and easily on on par with his writing ability. Not only that, but in terms of influence and expression, he is among the greatest vocalists of the 20th Century, on the same level as Frank Sinatra and Billie Holiday. He plays with meter very similarly to the way Holiday approaches melody and Thelonious Monk, harmony; bending time itself by approaching notes from front or behind. I've never heard any singer from the late 20th century come close to his vocal ability, although many tried. And to paraphrase Dylan himself, I've never once heard him "hit a wrong note. Find me one."
Yes, it's sad that he cannot do today what he used to do, but he's 70! I agree that as recently as 10 years ago, he was doing things with his voice that would make my head spin in disbelief.
[Edited 7/9/11 9:32am] "There is two kinds of music, the good, and the bad. I play the good kind."
Louis Armstrong | |
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No one turns a phrase quite like Dylan, so I'll randomly throw in some non-lyrical quotes here and there to keep the thread lively and interesting. Here is a recent quote from him, from his official website.
"There is two kinds of music, the good, and the bad. I play the good kind."
Louis Armstrong | |
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I'm not really big on poetry but this is pretty impressive. I kind of wish that he had done more stuff like that. | |
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