mjscarousal said:

TotalAlisa said:

well, is Aretha as big as Madonna and i don't mean physically

I agree beyonce gets things handed to her, but i wasn't saying she is the Hardest worker, i was saying that she works probably as hard as Madonna, so why should she not be as famous or successful.

Music is a very subjective thing, because people have different tastes, I don't really like either artists catalogue, so they are pretty much equal in my eyes.

How many black female artist have been as popular/successful as Madonna???

Music is subjective but calling an artist a legend is VERY objective as well as saying that because she is a black woman she will never be Madonna like that is holding her back from having similiar success??? that is just stupid shit to me

People have came in here and gave valid reasons as to why she will never be Madonna just like their will NEVER be another Michael Jackson.. it just isnt no comparision. Maybe a better wording would be have similiar success. Beyonce will never have the same impact because she is not doing anything innovative and most of things Madonna did with videos,images, etc have already been done. Beyonce I doubt will go the controversy route in her image.. She has pretty much stayed with the same formula that has worked for her the moment she debut. She doesnt take risks and going by these last 4 albums she probably never will and she has already PEAKED so the likelihood of gaining that impact is zeroe. Its obsurd to compare her to Madonna as well as disrespectful. And I dont even like Madonna neither!! LOL

The reason why she wont be embraced globally has nothing to do with her race or gender but the effect and impact of her MUSIC which she fails to realize is essential in becoming a legend not how many grammys won, not how many movies you act horrible in, not how many photoshoots done, not how many albums sold, not how pretty you are, and not how popular you are at the MOMENT. There is NO connection with her and the audience. She is like a generated product created by the media and sadly she plays into that.. just no real emotion in her music as well as from her.

On Aretha/Madonna: I'll just say this Aretha is way more respected as far as her contributions and loved for her music more so than Madonna who is mostly praised for videos, images etc. I gave an example of a woman who is just damn near on the same scale as Madonna as far as global appeal through MUSIC.

[Edited 7/7/11 14:46pm]

[Edited 7/7/11 14:48pm]

[Edited 7/7/11 14:53pm]

Madonna maybe the first to push that sex, controversial, bad girl image, but lets get real, she is overrated. Why should some else who has talent be downplayed, because they aren't controversial? Shouldn't raw talent trump any kind of gimmick???

Im NOT even speaking about beyonce having all this talent, because i don't think she is as talented as what some may believe, but im speaking for other artist who are VERY talented.

There are several reasons why beyonce won't be as madonna's "successful". Her crappy music is one of them, but its NOT disrespectful to compare her to madonna, if you are speaking about actual raw talent. Why don't you like madonna???

kenny88 said:

Curtwill1975 said:

It's the truth. Like it or not. Even if Bey was never in the industry, I would say the same thing about Madonna's music. I mean, it's not bad. Not great. I will say she has 3 classic albums though out of 15 and that's my objective non bias opinion. Now for entertainment purposes? Yeah, Madonna is that chick and is the Queen of Pop but Bey's vocal arrangements on 4 slay everything that Madonna has recorded and that's real talk as far as I am concerned.

If you were comparing Aretha's to Bey's work, I would never say that ever. And I am a fan of Bey before I am of Aretha, but Aretha is the 2nd greatest female vocalist from the beginning of the 20th century behind Ella. But Bey went to another level in vocal arrangement/performances and Madonna is not seeing them. It is what it is.

It's not the truth. It's just your stan delusions.

and yelling through bland uptempos and ballads doesn't 'slay'. Well, unless you're easily amused, that is.

But then again you seem to be critquing on vocals which is really the only argument Beyonce fans have. If we're speaking about the music (lyrics and production) then you should know that Beyonce is at the bottom of the totem pole.

I edit this because I posted all of this and I realize that we are going to argue in circles. My viewpoint is that Bey's vocal arrangement trump anything that Madonna has done in her music. And you can call it delusional or whatever.

[Edited 7/7/11 15:47pm]

TotalAlisa said:

smoothcriminal12 said:

Alright man, we all know racism exists, but just stop it. That's not true at all. Not everything is about racism.

I have to agree with Murph somewhat. But MJ was black and is the biggest star globally, but he was a MAN not a woman.

Like i said, Madonna doesn't deserve all the praise she is getting anyways. Beyonce works just as hard if not harder than Madonna. and I am not a fan of either. So that takes a lot for me to say something positive about beyonce.

Indeed....But MJ was viewed as a safe, family act throughout much of the '80s...Part of his greatness was that almost everyone had a MJ album....from kids to adults to grandmothers to metal heads to hip-hop fans, to jazz heads...ect, ect...

As for Smooth Criminal12's response, this is not about racism...It's about how white FEMALE beauty is held to a different standard in the US...It's the same reason that media outlets go crazy when a young, pretty white girl/woman goes missing....Black women rarely get that kind of wall to wall coverage when they go missing...It is what it is...

Such an un-leveled playing field is not Madonna's fault...She played the hand she was dealt and rode it all the way to the top with saavy, toughness and a will to win and beat the guys at their own game...She's a winner...

But, beyond the fact that music downloading has changed the meaning of what it means to be a global pop star (today, it's Gaga, Rihanna and Katy Perry), Beyonce's skin color plays a role in the big scheme of things...

Curtwill1975 said:

kenny88 said:

It's not the truth. It's just your stan delusions.

and yelling through bland uptempos and ballads doesn't 'slay'. Well, unless you're easily amused, that is.

But then again you seem to be critquing on vocals which is really the only argument Beyonce fans have. If we're speaking about the music (lyrics and production) then you should know that Beyonce is at the bottom of the totem pole.

I edit this because I posted all of this and I realize that we are going to argue in circles. My viewpoint is that Bey's vocal arrangement trump anything that Madonna has done in her music. And you can call it delusional or whatever.

[Edited 7/7/11 15:47pm]

Better voice =/= better music.

I know there's a big debate about Beyonce becoming years to come, some say she don't have the catalog to be considered one while others say she will be remembered as the best performer of this generation. Only time will time But many artist admire her talent. Lots of the legends compliment about her have the potential so who knows.

here's some legends/ currents artist on her

I just find the cynicism around here where Beyonce is concerned to be pointless and stupid. Will Beyonce ever be on Madonna's level? Probably not, considering she came a good 15 years after Madonna, and no one who debuted post 1995 and whose career peaks in the digital/YouTube era is going to have MTV, physical media or a meteoric grass roots climb to cement their iconic status in the same way.

However, Beyonce (and her male counterpart Usher) IS on her way to iconic status (if she isn't already), and ~will~ in 10-20 years be considered one of the enduring icons of her generation. People are waiting for her to fade away like she's some 15 minutes of fame act, and that's not going to happen. She's been around for too long, has proven herself and has an established following. Her album sales will dwindle, her hits will taper off, and she won't be considered "thee" it girl...but for the rest of Beyonce's career, she will always have a following and she will always be a 'name' that's paid attention to in the media...like Madonna...like Aretha...like Patti...like Prince...like Sting...etc., etc.

Reconcile it, or be mad.

*snicker*

[Edited 7/7/11 21:51pm]

To call her this generation's Michael Jackson is an insult to MJ. Beyonce is boring, predictable, overexposed and I just can't understand what's so "great" about her. She wears a ridiculous amount of makeup, weave, skin bleach, leotards, etc. and just seems like the type of performer that they could really make out of any chick in a gospel choir on a Sunday morning and slap a blonde weave on her and have overproduced "music".

The things that make MJ and Prince stand out is that you simply cannot manufacture their actual talent. Yes, MJ and Prince had marketing machines behind them but their real, raw, and not easily duplicated talent is clear to see. This chick is overrated and tries to hard and I'll be glad to see her finally go away for like 10 years or so. I was never a fan of hers but to compare her to MJ or Madonna is really a joke.

Beyonce is pretty close to Cher when it comes to acting/singing.

NaQu said:

I just find the cynicism around here where Beyonce is concerned to be pointless and stupid. Will Beyonce ever be on Madonna's level? Probably not, considering she came a good 15 years after Madonna, and no one who debuted post 1995 and whose career peaks in the digital/YouTube era is going to have MTV, physical media or a meteoric grass roots climb to cement their iconic status in the same way.

However, Beyonce (and her male counterpart Usher) IS on her way to iconic status (if she isn't already), and ~will~ in 10-20 years be considered one of the enduring icons of her generation. People are waiting for her to fade away like she's some 15 minutes of fame act, and that's not going to happen. She's been around for too long, has proven herself and has an established following. Her album sales will dwindle, her hits will taper off, and she won't be considered "thee" it girl...but for the rest of Beyonce's career, she will always have a following and she will always be a 'name' that's paid attention to in the media...like Madonna...like Aretha...like Patti...like Prince...like Sting...etc., etc.

Reconcile it, or be mad.

*snicker*

[Edited 7/7/11 21:51pm]

good point

murph said

No...because she's not white....

So true, that's why Oprah was never able to reach the level of Phil Donahue.

TotalAlisa said:

Madonna maybe the first to push that sex, controversial, bad girl image, but lets get real, she is overrated.

First of all...

Second of all, you overuse the word, "overrated." The word basically conveys no significant meaning, so you should work on expanding your vocabulary.

Imaginative said:

TotalAlisa said:

Madonna maybe the first to push that sex, controversial, bad girl image, but lets get real, she is overrated.

First of all...

Second of all, you overuse the word, "overrated." The word basically conveys no significant meaning, so you should work on expanding your vocabulary.

oh so when the word "overrated" is used to describe madonna, it conveys no significant meaning, yet when used for beyonce it carries so much weight

again I say madonna is one of the most overrated artst of the 20th and 21st century.

if you have another word i can use for overrated, i would gladly use that term to describe madonna.

TotalAlisa said:

if you have another word i can use for overrated, i would gladly use that term to describe madonna.

It's a completely meaningless word no matter who uses it. I've just noticed you using it often in multiple threads.

If you want to give the word at least some meaning, you can start by saying that are overrated by whom? Whose "rating" are you even referring to?

Madonna has had a 30+ year career and has been rated both favorably and negatively by THOUSANDS of journalists and audiences over that time. If you're going to take the time to write something, at least say something with some meaning.

Imaginative said:

murph said

No...because she's not white....

So true, that's why Oprah was never able to reach the level of Phil Donahue.

Misquided anaology......

TotalAlisa said:

mjscarousal said:

Music is subjective but calling an artist a legend is VERY objective as well as saying that because she is a black woman she will never be Madonna like that is holding her back from having similiar success??? that is just stupid shit to me

People have came in here and gave valid reasons as to why she will never be Madonna just like their will NEVER be another Michael Jackson.. it just isnt no comparision. Maybe a better wording would be have similiar success. Beyonce will never have the same impact because she is not doing anything innovative and most of things Madonna did with videos,images, etc have already been done. Beyonce I doubt will go the controversy route in her image.. She has pretty much stayed with the same formula that has worked for her the moment she debut. She doesnt take risks and going by these last 4 albums she probably never will and she has already PEAKED so the likelihood of gaining that impact is zeroe. Its obsurd to compare her to Madonna as well as disrespectful. And I dont even like Madonna neither!! LOL

The reason why she wont be embraced globally has nothing to do with her race or gender but the effect and impact of her MUSIC which she fails to realize is essential in becoming a legend not how many grammys won, not how many movies you act horrible in, not how many photoshoots done, not how many albums sold, not how pretty you are, and not how popular you are at the MOMENT. There is NO connection with her and the audience. She is like a generated product created by the media and sadly she plays into that.. just no real emotion in her music as well as from her.

On Aretha/Madonna: I'll just say this Aretha is way more respected as far as her contributions and loved for her music more so than Madonna who is mostly praised for videos, images etc. I gave an example of a woman who is just damn near on the same scale as Madonna as far as global appeal through MUSIC.

[Edited 7/7/11 14:46pm]

[Edited 7/7/11 14:48pm]

[Edited 7/7/11 14:53pm]

Madonna maybe the first to push that sex, controversial, bad girl image, but lets get real, she is overrated. Why should some else who has talent be downplayed, because they aren't controversial? Shouldn't raw talent trump any kind of gimmick???

Im NOT even speaking about beyonce having all this talent, because i don't think she is as talented as what some may believe, but im speaking for other artist who are VERY talented.

There are several reasons why beyonce won't be as madonna's "successful". Her crappy music is one of them, but its NOT disrespectful to compare her to madonna, if you are speaking about actual raw talent. Why don't you like madonna???

Madonna is overrated in the being compared with her peers Prince and Michael but one can not deny her impact on pop culture. While most of what she did was not innovative, like Michael she did popularize the music video medium and help it become as popular it is today. She always reinvented her image with each era and was able to have a few classics which makes her an Icon as well as her global following. Now in I in no way think that is groundbreaking but comparing that to what Beyonce has supposely done is obsurd to me because she hasnt done anything on that level. She for one has not made a memorable performance as Madonna, she has not came out with one solid classic that future generations will be listening to, she hasnt even came out with one solid album. She is fine for talking about right now but she isnt doing anything legendary or building a legacy for the future which the artists that she is being compared to did.

HAPPYPERSON said:

I know there's a big debate about Beyonce becoming years to come, some say she don't have the catalog to be considered one while others say she will be remembered as the best performer of this generation. Only time will time But many artist admire her talent. Lots of the legends compliment about her have the potential so who knows.

here's some legends/ currents artist on her

So since all those artists had something positive to say about Beyonce that makes her legend?

Why does what other artists to say validate Beyonce or what she has done? It doesnt mean anything. Michael Jackson praised Akon, Chris Brown, Usher, Tpain when he was alive. So I guess that makes them legends as well? Madonna praised Missy Elliott.. Janet praised Aaliyah, Cassie, Rihanna does that make them legends as well?

Just because legends praise these current artists doent mean ooooo Prince praised her so that must means she great... He didnt even overpraised her.. he said he tried to teach the girl on music from a musician perspective.. Just because Prince said she was talented doesnt mean he feels she is a legend or is doing anything groundbreaking...

Aretha Franklin praised Erykah Badu over Beyonce and said she is saving soul r&B

Prince has given high accolades to Janalle monae and even attends her show some say here

Jill Scott gets raves to.. there are alot of OTHER female performers that perform JUST as good given 150 performances and some that do a damn BETTER job at times then Beyonce but I guess since Beyonce is force fed in our face those other talents means nothing.

What people have to realize which it is all going to ball down to is the MASSES/PUBLIC determine who becomes a legend. NOT the media.. NOT the artist themself.. the PEOPLE. It is obvious at this point anyway, most people would say Beyonce is not a legend and it is quite to early to say that but going by all the material she has spat at us so far the answer is no. She is more concerned with being popular, having easy hits, staying relevant in the spotlight then making classic music AND even ALL those SAME artists that had something positive to say about Beyonce would say the SAME thing ... nobody is not going to say the truth on national television.

I didnt hear none of them say innovative, groundbreaking, original, iconic, trendsetting any of those words come from their mouth... All I heard was.. "beautiful" and talented which are two things combined that can be easily duplicated real quick. And Adriana had me cracking it up laughing when she said Beyonce was a talented actress.... pleasseeee.

What people fail to realize is Beyonce thrived in the industry during a time where she really didnt have much competition on her level of performances. NOW in this new era she finally does, and having all those easy hits wont be so easy this time around.

@NaQ... there is no dening that Beyonce is probably going to be remembered for being a popular act of of this generation just like other acts of EACH era.. she wont be the ONLY one remembered. However, that by no means makes her legend or suggest because of her popularity her material is groundbreaking. She doesnt have the catalogue to be even considered a legend or an artist who helped her genre because she didnt. You can bet your money artists like Jill Scott and Erykah Badu music will still be playing. At the end of the day the glitter and gold means nothing if you have no music to back it up with. Michael did, Prince did, etc.. which is why they will never duplicated replace and seals their status as legends for years and generations to come

[Edited 7/8/11 7:17am]

[Edited 7/8/11 7:28am]

[Edited 7/8/11 7:53am]

[Edited 7/8/11 8:01am]

I dont think so. Mainly because she is just too ordinary. She has a decent voice and wears pretty dresses but that gets old. Madonna pushes herself with every project. Sometimes things are'nt pretty but she moves ahead and progresses creatively. Beyonce is not much different than she was when she came out in the mid nineties with DC. The formula is basically the same. Nothing wrong with that but it gets boring after a while. She reminds me of a more urban Celine Dion. She does not have the voice Celine does but you know what you are gonna get before it even happens. No songs Beyonce puts out surprises me. Its just like oh another Beyonce song. Her concerts tend to be kind of boring to. I did not even watch the last tour because I was like well......why? Also young artist in general today tend to try too hard to create themselves as icons. Not just Beyonce but several others also. They want to create something iconic instead of just being creative and letting what truely is iconic just happen naturally. Its all over calculated.

If she gets her jugs and pussy out maybe....

There's not an elevator on earth that goes high enough to take Beyonce to Madonna's level!

Imaginative said:

TotalAlisa said:

if you have another word i can use for overrated, i would gladly use that term to describe madonna.

It's a completely meaningless word no matter who uses it. I've just noticed you using it often in multiple threads.

If you want to give the word at least some meaning, you can start by saying that are overrated by whom? Whose "rating" are you even referring to?

Madonna has had a 30+ year career and has been rated both favorably and negatively by THOUSANDS of journalists and audiences over that time. If you're going to take the time to write something, at least say something with some meaning.

Just because you say a word is meaningless, doesn't make it meaningless. That is your opinion.

honestly I just don't notice or really care what other people say on here. Especially if its not about me in particular. Everyone uses this word on here, why remember or pinpoint my posts. I just noticed that members who join this forum especially after 2007 put so much focus and weight on my posts, when several members have similar views as me concerning madonna and beyonce. I been here since 2004, if you don't get me, then you just won't. Or just ignore them. my opinion holds no more weight then anyone else on here. And different opinions should be appreciated.

anyways, if you "noticed" me using that word, then why not "notice" my views and opinions on the artist i used that word for. Because I have explained several times why i think beyonce and madonna are both overrated, or inflated.

Not necessarily directed at you

(I been on the org for a LONG TIME, and if a newbie comes on here starting arguments with me, or tell me what i can/can't say. I have been a fixture on this forum, and a popular member. If someone can't deal with my comments, ideas, opinions, because they don't know how to ignore them, or not give them so much power, then they will have to get over it )

mjscarousal said:

TotalAlisa said:

Madonna maybe the first to push that sex, controversial, bad girl image, but lets get real, she is overrated. Why should some else who has talent be downplayed, because they aren't controversial? Shouldn't raw talent trump any kind of gimmick???

Im NOT even speaking about beyonce having all this talent, because i don't think she is as talented as what some may believe, but im speaking for other artist who are VERY talented.

There are several reasons why beyonce won't be as madonna's "successful". Her crappy music is one of them, but its NOT disrespectful to compare her to madonna, if you are speaking about actual raw talent. Why don't you like madonna???

Madonna is overrated in the being compared with her peers Prince and Michael but one can not deny her impact on pop culture. While most of what she did was not innovative, like Michael she did popularize the music video medium and help it become as popular it is today. She always reinvented her image with each era and was able to have a few classics which makes her an Icon as well as her global following. Now in I in no way think that is groundbreaking but comparing that to what Beyonce has supposely done is obsurd to me because she hasnt done anything on that level. She for one has not made a memorable performance as Madonna, she has not came out with one solid classic that future generations will be listening to, she hasnt even came out with one solid album. She is fine for talking about right now but she isnt doing anything legendary or building a legacy for the future which the artists that she is being compared to did.

I can't agree with that, because even though i don't like beyonce she is a better performer. And single ladies performance has a huge global and pop impact. Its now an Iconic dance. I don't recall any of madonna's performances having signature dance routines. Unless someone would count voguing. But Jody Watley was did that first.

But concerning the music aspect beyonce hasn't made timeless music. So unless she does that, she won't even be close to being successful as Madonna.

TotalAlisa said:

mjscarousal said:

Madonna is overrated in the being compared with her peers Prince and Michael but one can not deny her impact on pop culture. While most of what she did was not innovative, like Michael she did popularize the music video medium and help it become as popular it is today. She always reinvented her image with each era and was able to have a few classics which makes her an Icon as well as her global following. Now in I in no way think that is groundbreaking but comparing that to what Beyonce has supposely done is obsurd to me because she hasnt done anything on that level. She for one has not made a memorable performance as Madonna, she has not came out with one solid classic that future generations will be listening to, she hasnt even came out with one solid album. She is fine for talking about right now but she isnt doing anything legendary or building a legacy for the future which the artists that she is being compared to did.

I can't agree with that, because even though i don't like beyonce she is a better performer. And single ladies performance has a huge global and pop impact. Its now an Iconic dance. I don't recall any of madonna's performances having signature dance routines. Unless someone would count voguing. But Jody Watley was did that first.

But concerning the music aspect beyonce hasn't made timeless music. So unless she does that, she won't even be close to being successful as Madonna.

Now as much as I luv you Total you are sounding a bit ridiculous now.

You and me both know, you know the difference between a PERFORMANCE versus a MUSIC VIDEO choregraphy right?

What was one of Michaels BIGGEST milestones in his career....... Motown 25 which was a performance that had a profound impact on pop culture and performances today the same with Madonna's like a Virgin dry humping the stage in a wedding dress performances I know of and I wasnt even born but for some reason I cant remember not one important Beyonce stage performance that impacted music

Single Ladies music video was a popular music video that made international success that doesnt mean it was GLOBAL or impacted choregraphy. It was popular during a period in pop culture. I HIGHLY doubt that music video as well as that ridiculous song will still be playing 50 years from now. Just like the jerry curl was a popular hair style in the 80's... just a popular fad for the time but it did not make a profound effect on music videos or dance performances. It just was a popular dance that was copied. I personally have yet to even see the music video or have an interest LOL She has NO MEMORABLE performances which is quite sad because she has done ALOT of performances and I cant remember ONE LOL

And once again it seems you try to downplay Madonna with your biased responces. I dont like the girl neither but REGARDLESS of who is the better performer Madonna has MORE memorable performances and a MUCH GLOBAL impact on pop culture which Beyonce will never have which you seem to find trouble accepting or comprehending.

And regardless of who can sing better, I have found some of Madonnas performances to be more entertaining than the same formula boring beyawnce because if we are strictly talking about "performances" which really is a show and really doest require a whole lot of talent then thats what Madonna does with her no singing self and she does a damn better job then boring Beyonce and Gaga even if its a circus mess... she has the better animals and you will ALWAYS see something new, creative, exciting and different

Not if she (Bey) continues on the road she's on. I don't think it has to do if one is more talented than the other...it has to do with risks and Beyonce doesn't do that with her music. Her songs are geared more towards the teeny boppers/club goers type crowd. All of my cousins who are in their teens to early 20's know all her songs and thinks she's a goddess. I guess that's all grand but she's limiting her audience.

Madonna takes major risks with her music. Her creativity has been off the chain for nearly, what almost 30 years? Madonna's audience is hardly limited. She's evolved from right after her first album in the early 80's. And I'm sure back then people were saying she was just a trend and that no one would remember the girl with blond hair, the bow in the hair, the leggings and the glamour sunglasses, but she's considered a legend in 2011 as far as I'm concerned and her ability and ambition to take risks has brought her this far and will continue to do so.

[Edited 7/9/11 8:44am]

mjscarousal said:

TotalAlisa said:

I can't agree with that, because even though i don't like beyonce she is a better performer. And single ladies performance has a huge global and pop impact. Its now an Iconic dance. I don't recall any of madonna's performances having signature dance routines. Unless someone would count voguing. But Jody Watley was did that first.

But concerning the music aspect beyonce hasn't made timeless music. So unless she does that, she won't even be close to being successful as Madonna.

Now as much as I luv you Total you are sounding a bit ridiculous now.

You and me both know, you know the difference between a PERFORMANCE versus a MUSIC VIDEO choregraphy right?

What was one of Michaels BIGGEST milestones in his career....... Motown 25 which was a performance that had a profound impact on pop culture and performances today the same with Madonna's like a Virgin dry humping the stage in a wedding dress performances I know of and I wasnt even born but for some reason I cant remember not one important Beyonce stage performance that impacted music

Single Ladies music video was a popular music video that made international success that doesnt mean it was GLOBAL or impacted choregraphy. It was popular during a period in pop culture. I HIGHLY doubt that music video as well as that ridiculous song will still be playing 50 years from now. Just like the jerry curl was a popular hair style in the 80's... just a popular fad for the time but it did not make a profound effect on music videos or dance performances. It just was a popular dance that was copied. I personally have yet to even see the music video or have an interest LOL She has NO MEMORABLE performances which is quite sad because she has done ALOT of performances and I cant remember ONE LOL

And once again it seems you try to downplay Madonna with your biased responces. I dont like the girl neither but REGARDLESS of who is the better performer Madonna has MORE memorable performances and a MUCH GLOBAL impact on pop culture which Beyonce will never have which you seem to find trouble accepting or comprehending.

And regardless of who can sing better, I have found some of Madonnas performances to be more entertaining than the same formula boring beyawnce because if we are strictly talking about "performances" which really is a show and really doest require a whole lot of talent then thats what Madonna does with her no singing self and she does a damn better job then boring Beyonce and Gaga even if its a circus mess... she has the better animals and you will ALWAYS see something new, creative, exciting and different

im not trying to downplay madonna, but what im saying is your not giving beyonce any credit. You can say that beyonce has a signature choreography dance moves, but you can't say that for madonna. Madonna has made a memorable performance, but has she made memorable choreography. I get what your saying, but lets not act like madonna has some signature dance that is popular like single ladies. We really don't know if Single Ladies will stand the test of time. But it made a global impact.

What madonna lacks or doesn't have beyonce has, and vice versa.

If beyonce had better music, I believe she would deserve to be on madonna's level.

TotalAlisa said:

mjscarousal said:

Now as much as I luv you Total you are sounding a bit ridiculous now.

You and me both know, you know the difference between a PERFORMANCE versus a MUSIC VIDEO choregraphy right?

What was one of Michaels BIGGEST milestones in his career....... Motown 25 which was a performance that had a profound impact on pop culture and performances today the same with Madonna's like a Virgin dry humping the stage in a wedding dress performances I know of and I wasnt even born but for some reason I cant remember not one important Beyonce stage performance that impacted music

Single Ladies music video was a popular music video that made international success that doesnt mean it was GLOBAL or impacted choregraphy. It was popular during a period in pop culture. I HIGHLY doubt that music video as well as that ridiculous song will still be playing 50 years from now. Just like the jerry curl was a popular hair style in the 80's... just a popular fad for the time but it did not make a profound effect on music videos or dance performances. It just was a popular dance that was copied. I personally have yet to even see the music video or have an interest LOL She has NO MEMORABLE performances which is quite sad because she has done ALOT of performances and I cant remember ONE LOL

And once again it seems you try to downplay Madonna with your biased responces. I dont like the girl neither but REGARDLESS of who is the better performer Madonna has MORE memorable performances and a MUCH GLOBAL impact on pop culture which Beyonce will never have which you seem to find trouble accepting or comprehending.

And regardless of who can sing better, I have found some of Madonnas performances to be more entertaining than the same formula boring beyawnce because if we are strictly talking about "performances" which really is a show and really doest require a whole lot of talent then thats what Madonna does with her no singing self and she does a damn better job then boring Beyonce and Gaga even if its a circus mess... she has the better animals and you will ALWAYS see something new, creative, exciting and different

im not trying to downplay madonna, but what im saying is your not giving beyonce any credit. You can say that beyonce has a signature choreography dance moves, but you can't say that for madonna. Madonna has made a memorable performance, but has she made memorable choreography. I get what your saying, but lets not act like madonna has some signature dance that is popular like single ladies. We really don't know if Single Ladies will stand the test of time. But it made a global impact.

What madonna lacks or doesn't have beyonce has, and vice versa.

If beyonce had better music, I believe she would deserve to be on madonna's level.

Because I am not raving about Beyonce compared to Madonna that means I am not giving her credit? Any other time you of all people always has something negative to say about Beyonce but from some reason threatened by Madonna in this particular case The obvious has already been stated as far as what Madonna lacks over Beyonce which really is just vocals the same can be said about Bob Dylan but both have had a big impact on music MUCH MORE than Beyonce.. period.

The ONLY credit because deserves is the fact that she is a descent vocalist thats it but that still is saying much because their are PLENTY of singers that sing better than Madonna and alot that sing better than Beyonce herself LOL

Signature moves??? What signature moves did Beyonce invent that was not stolen or COPIED from past performers Tina, Janet etc... Go ahead take your time Ill wait because in this particualr scenario you are sounding retarded now.. You say all that crap about Beyonce but now since she is compared to Madonna all of that suddenly means nothing because of the person she is compared to? Madonna is definitly overrated in various degrees and her vocal ability is limited however her impact on pop culture the risks that she took can never be match.

I also think you are hyping Single Ladies a bit much. That music video did not effect the ENTIRE world, the video was not even innovative. It was just a popular music video.

If it Beyonce did have better music I STILL think that she should not easily mean she is on Madonna's level of influence. It kills me how anybody will call anybody an Icon or legend just because of the popularity they have. Beyonce has a descent voice and is a good performer AT TIMES when she is not over the the SAME as a Toni Braxton, Mariah Carey, Jill Scott etc etc and I personally think all three sing better than Beyonce but I guess that is just me.

Your entire post is a complete contradiction to your usual posts on Beyonce. How could she possibly be on her level when she is not original, innovative or has done anything groundbreaking neither has Madonna. However, she has made a much more global effect and she connects with her audiences. Her music is versatile as well as what she did with her music videos and being able to reinvent her image. She had set trends as far as subject matter and image which is evident CURRENT artists today follow Beyonce has not created anything like that or is building a legacy for future artists to follow because all she does is COPIES and stays formula. Madonna was a smart business woman and has manage to still have a successful career even today. Her fanbase is crazy and is just not limited to one demographic unlike Beyonce who mostly caters to teeny boppers. Its just a variety of reasons why she will never be on Madonnas level and she doesnt deserve to.

I have already said that she more than likely will be remembered as the most successful entertainer of 00's HOWEVER, she will by no means have classics or be remembered for changings music, coming up with innovative concepts or for being a legend. She will be mentioned as just the most successful pop act which really isnt saying much. That music CATALOGUE is essential in that aspect of being recognized as a legend and icon which she does not have.

mjscarousal said:

TotalAlisa said:

im not trying to downplay madonna, but what im saying is your not giving beyonce any credit. You can say that beyonce has a signature choreography dance moves, but you can't say that for madonna. Madonna has made a memorable performance, but has she made memorable choreography. I get what your saying, but lets not act like madonna has some signature dance that is popular like single ladies. We really don't know if Single Ladies will stand the test of time. But it made a global impact.

What madonna lacks or doesn't have beyonce has, and vice versa.

If beyonce had better music, I believe she would deserve to be on madonna's level.

Because I am not raving about Beyonce compared to Madonna that means I am not giving her credit? Any other time you of all people always has something negative to say about Beyonce but from some reason threatened by Madonna in this particular case The obvious has already been stated as far as what Madonna lacks over Beyonce which really is just vocals the same can be said about Bob Dylan but both have had a big impact on music MUCH MORE than Beyonce.. period.

The ONLY credit because deserves is the fact that she is a descent vocalist thats it but that still is saying much because their are PLENTY of singers that sing better than Madonna and alot that sing better than Beyonce herself LOL

Signature moves??? What signature moves did Beyonce invent that was not stolen or COPIED from past performers Tina, Janet etc... Go ahead take your time Ill wait because in this particualr scenario you are sounding retarded now.. You say all that crap about Beyonce but now since she is compared to Madonna all of that suddenly means nothing because of the person she is compared to? Madonna is definitly overrated in various degrees and her vocal ability is limited however her impact on pop culture the risks that she took can never be match.

I also think you are hyping Single Ladies a bit much. That music video did not effect the ENTIRE world, the video was not even innovative. It was just a popular music video.

If it Beyonce did have better music I STILL think that she should not easily mean she is on Madonna's level of influence. It kills me how anybody will call anybody an Icon or legend just because of the popularity they have. Beyonce has a descent voice and is a good performer AT TIMES when she is not over the the SAME as a Toni Braxton, Mariah Carey, Jill Scott etc etc and I personally think all three sing better than Beyonce but I guess that is just me.

Your entire post is a complete contradiction to your usual posts on Beyonce. How could she possibly be on her level when she is not original, innovative or has done anything groundbreaking neither has Madonna. However, she has made a much more global effect and she connects with her audiences. Her music is versatile as well as what she did with her music videos and being able to reinvent her image. She had set trends as far as subject matter and image which is evident CURRENT artists today follow Beyonce has not created anything like that or is building a legacy for future artists to follow because all she does is COPIES and stays formula. Madonna was a smart business woman and has manage unlike Beyonce who mostly caters to teeny boppers. to still have a successful career even today. Her fanbase is crazy and is just not limited to one demographic Its just a variety of reasons why she will never be on Madonnas level and she doesnt deserve to.

I have already said that she more than likely will be remembered as the most successful entertainer of 00's HOWEVER, she will by no means have classics or be remembered for changings music, coming up with innovative concepts or for being a legend. She will be mentioned as just the most successful pop act which really isnt saying much. That music CATALOGUE is essential in that aspect of being recognized as a legend and icon which she does not have.

There is no contradictions, because I have said beyonce has limited talent. No one is threaten by madonna, I just dont buy into gimmicks or popularity. I stand by how i feel about beyonce. I believe she is overrated and have mediocre talent. But I think madonna has even less talent then beyonce. But im just looking at it from one point of view which is just actual talent, im not looking at the "cultural" impact, or popularity. Which those play apart, but for me not so much, I just like artist based on talent. So my views would be different.

Half of what you are saying about beyonce you dont even have to say it because I already know that about Bey. and have said all that. I am NOT impressed with single ladies, but I am speaking on how others view it, they even made a show named after that song.

Beyonce and madonna are pretty much equal in MY eyes, despite madonna's cultural impact (there are people like me who did not grow up with madonna, nor was apart of that generation so that culture impact stuff means nothing to me, especially if i dont see actual talent like either great vocals or dancing). I don't like either artist so as far as im concern if madonna can get all that success why not beyonce.

will she be on madonna's level No. but speaking from terms of talent she definitly should and SEVERAL other artist too. I think people buy into gimmicks more then actual talent. I truely think MJ mastered it all, actual talent and gimmicks and thats why he is the most successful.

I love it when airheads think of themselves as too deep for gimmicks.

NaQu said:

I love it when airheads think of themselves as too deep for gimmicks.

i love it when idiots are too scared to say something directly to others.

I find it funny when people aren't direct.

The airheads are the people who fall for those stupid gimmicks. No one said anything about being deep. I said that person better have some talent.

When did you join like 3 weeks ago?????

I think the difference between the two is the worldwide impact they make.

It's not only about the US, people like MJ and Madonna have been a worldwide phenomen for 30 years. Of course, people like Beyonce go worldwide too, but i don't see the massive impact they make.

In Holland, Beyonce does AHOY (like 10.000 people), remember, in 1987 Madonna did already Feyenoord: 45.000 people per night (and she did 3 shows) and hasn't done less till this day.

Uk: Beyonce last tour at the O2: like 20.000 people? Madonna first Europeon tour: Wembley stadium: 70.000 people per concert.

People forget how huge MJ and Madonna were in the 80's, you can't compare that to people like Beyonce now. And remember this went worldwide: Asia, South America, Australia....

Nothing against Beyonce, but no, she won't be on Madonna's level.....

murph said:

No, because she is black.

Imaginative said:

So true, that's why Oprah was never able to reach the level of Phil Donahue.

Misquided anaology......

And have you ever heard of the actual King of Pop, the first pop-star EVER, in fact...? Louis "Satchmo" Armstong, or as his friends simply called him, "Pops."