How big could they have gotten if they wouldn't have been caught lip-syncing? I know certain groups at that time were fads right off the back, but Milli Vanilli are not "one-hit wonders"....

...Your thoughts?

I doubt they be legends but might have had a longer run. Like a year or two lol

New Edition would have hired rappers and they would have toured this year

They wouldn't have lasted long. Their first album had the right music at the right time. "Keep on running" was already not as strong as their first singles.

Tittypants said:

How big could they have gotten if they wouldn't have been caught lip-syncing? I know certain groups at that time were fads right off the back, but Milli Vanilli are not "one-hit wonders"....

...Your thoughts?

THAT^ is a very good question. Rob & Fab were already popular in Europe before they became popular in the USA. All four of their USA singles were Top 20 hits on the R&B Soul Charts, the Hot 100 USA Singles Charts, & the USA Dance Charts.

I think their career run in the USA would have potentially lasted until the end of 1993 at best. It was around that time that most of the dance sub-genres were getting less plays on corporate owned FM radio standards due to the upright of grunge rock & gangsta rap.

What happened to Milli Vanilli was the recording music industry at it's

most hypocritical: we are a kind that values shallow and inauthentic

aesthetics over substance.

The lip synching notwithstanding but how many recording artists then and

today are mostly the results of a money making scheme machine which

parade "artists" around as authentic.

I understand the German mastermind dude who knew that the

real singers did not have a marketable look, signing two pretty

boys to front the outfit.

Ugly singers + catchy songs = $ome money

pretty fake singers + catchy songs = ton$ of money

Who fucking cares anyways?....

Call me silly but I still don't see why they confessed. They killed my fantasy..even if I was 8 years old when all of this happened, lol. Aren't their plenty of stars out here fakin' the funk and getting paid bookoo money for it?

Milli Vanilli is no different than talentless Britney Spears. She never sings live she is always doing a terrible job at lipsynching.

jaimestarr79 said:

Milli Vanilli is no different than talentless Britney Spears. She never sings live she is always doing a terrible job at lipsynching.

Exactly, but people still buy the shit music and go see the shit concerts and then they have the nerve to put down real musicians or don't even understand what a real musician is.

[Edited 6/30/11 10:26am]

[Edited 6/30/11 10:26am]

I think they would've told people they didn't sing anyway. Even in their documentary, friends of theirs said they struggled with keeping up the facade of Milli Vanilli that they'd eventually tell them anyways. And besides, after that incident where their record skipped, album sales actually INCREASED! That was the trouble for them. As that documentary stated, they were "too successful". It was gonna be stopped. Them winning that Grammy was the straw that broke the camel's back.

missfee said:

Call me silly but I still don't see why they confessed.

Rob and Fab wanted to do their own vocals on the next record and refused to mime anymore, and Frank Farian basically said "I brought you into this world, and I'll take you out!". They did release an album under their own name and appeared on the Arsenio Hall (who constantly made jokes about them before) show to promote it.

MickyDolenz said:

missfee said:

Call me silly but I still don't see why they confessed.

Rob and Fab wanted to do their own vocals on the next record and refused to mime anymore, and Frank Farian basically said "I brought you into this world, and I'll take you out!". They did release an album under their own name and appeared on the Arsenio Hall (who constantly made jokes about them before) show to promote it.

It wasnt bad...and they even poked fun at themselves on a Pepsi commercial ...but the failure was too great.

[Edited 6/30/11 10:48am]

paisleypark4 said:

MickyDolenz said:

Rob and Fab wanted to do their own vocals on the next record and refused to mime anymore, and Frank Farian basically said "I brought you into this world, and I'll take you out!". They did release an album under their own name and appeared on the Arsenio Hall (who constantly made jokes about them before) show to promote it.

It wasnt bad...and they even poked fun at themselves on a Pepsi commercial ...but the failure was too great.

[Edited 6/30/11 10:48am]

Yeah they tried to get people to love them but it was too little too late.

People got mad when they discovered that Milli and Vanilli didn't sang on the actual record. It was, at that time, the biggest scam of all time in the pop world. They were just two cute models, for fuck's sake, not singers... scandal...

people could have forgiven the playback on stage; after all, it was common back then: Sabrina, Sam Fox, Paula Abdul, Jason Donovan, Kylie, or even Madonna (partially)...

of course, 1991 changed the rules of the game...

What happend after that was everybody was again paying attention to people's voices and techniques. Mariah, a Whitney "clone". Boyz II Men bringing back doo wop style harmonies with melisma over hip-hop tracks. Jodeci, bringing the pure gospel chops and Stevie Wonder stylings, which became the standard of every damn singer in the 90s it seemed. Almost everybody trying to sing like Stevie...

I never card for MV's music and I told everyone they sucked. Nobody believed me. Nobody believed me about M.C. Hammer and Vanilla Ice either, but hey...the 90s man. The 90s

Adisa said:

What happend after that was everybody was again paying attention to people's voices and techniques. Mariah, a Whitney "clone". Boyz II Men bringing back doo wop style harmonies with melisma over hip-hop tracks. Jodeci, bringing the pure gospel chops and Stevie Wonder stylings, which became the standard of every damn singer in the 90s it seemed. Almost everybody trying to sing like Stevie...

I never card for MV's music and I told everyone they sucked. Nobody believed me. Nobody believed me about M.C. Hammer and Vanilla Ice either, but hey...the 90s man. The 90s

YES! I actually hated that era of pop-R&B (that's why I condone more of the non R&B-influenced pop, rock, or grunge/alternative music and hip-hop, house, era '90s music). Everybody and their mama sounded like Stevie.

But yeah I can imagine people getting mad at you for saying Hammer, Milli Vanilli and Vanilla Ice not being hot stuff. 20 years later, Hammer is a preacher and Vanilla is trying to be this rap rocker.

Timmy84 said:

Adisa said:

What happend after that was everybody was again paying attention to people's voices and techniques. Mariah, a Whitney "clone". Boyz II Men bringing back doo wop style harmonies with melisma over hip-hop tracks. Jodeci, bringing the pure gospel chops and Stevie Wonder stylings, which became the standard of every damn singer in the 90s it seemed. Almost everybody trying to sing like Stevie...

I never card for MV's music and I told everyone they sucked. Nobody believed me. Nobody believed me about M.C. Hammer and Vanilla Ice either, but hey...the 90s man. The 90s

YES! I actually hated that era of pop-R&B (that's why I condone more of the non R&B-influenced pop, rock, or grunge/alternative music and hip-hop, house, era '90s music). Everybody and their mama sounded like Stevie.

But yeah I can imagine people getting mad at you for saying Hammer, Milli Vanilli and Vanilla Ice not being hot stuff. 20 years later, Hammer is a preacher and Vanilla is trying to be this rap rocker.

It was the era that launched so-called oversinging because everyone was trying to prove their authenticity. New Jack Swing may as well had been called New Jack Stevie.

But I actually loved the music from the early to mid 90s.

Adisa said:

Timmy84 said:

YES! I actually hated that era of pop-R&B (that's why I condone more of the non R&B-influenced pop, rock, or grunge/alternative music and hip-hop, house, era '90s music). Everybody and their mama sounded like Stevie.

But yeah I can imagine people getting mad at you for saying Hammer, Milli Vanilli and Vanilla Ice not being hot stuff. 20 years later, Hammer is a preacher and Vanilla is trying to be this rap rocker.

It was the era that launched so-called oversinging because everyone was trying to prove their authenticity. New Jack Swing may as well had been called New Jack Stevie.

But I actually loved the music from the early to mid 90s.

Don't get me wrong I did too but it got to be too much after 1993.

Timmy84 said:

Adisa said:

It was the era that launched so-called oversinging because everyone was trying to prove their authenticity. New Jack Swing may as well had been called New Jack Stevie.

But I actually loved the music from the early to mid 90s.

Don't get me wrong I did too but it got to be too much after 1993.

1993 marked the rise of the thug and G-Funk era in R&B, which I did NOT care for actually. The shift went from James Brown musically and Stevie Wonder vocally to include George Clinton musically and Roger musically AND vocally, lol. I'm amazed at how much George and Roger are associated with G-Funk/ West Coast hip-hop even they were both based out of the Midwest.

An even better question would be what if NOBODY even cared that Milli Vanilli were lip-synchers, what kind of impact would THAT have had on the 90s?

Adisa said:

Timmy84 said:

Don't get me wrong I did too but it got to be too much after 1993.

1993 marked the rise of the thug and G-Funk era in R&B, which I did NOT care for actually. The shift went from James Brown musically and Stevie Wonder vocally to include George Clinton musically and Roger musically AND vocally, lol. I'm amazed at how much George and Roger are associated with G-Funk/ West Coast hip-hop even they were both based out of the Midwest.

An even better question would be what if NOBODY even cared that Milli Vanilli were lip-synchers, what kind of impact would THAT have had on the 90s?

I don't know. I think Martha Wash would've still read Zelma Davis the riot act. No one can pull off lip-syncing without getting CAUGHT.

I think they would've gotten caught eventually, no matter what.

jaimestarr79 said:

Milli Vanilli is no different than talentless Britney Spears. She never sings live she is always doing a terrible job at lipsynching.

I don't agree that Britney is talentless at all, but that whole thing aside - they're not comparable for another reason as well, which is that when Britney lipsyncs, that's still actually her voice on the playback. When Milli Vanilli did it, it was a completely different guy doing the singing. So, not the same.

duccichucka said:

What happened to Milli Vanilli was the recording music industry at it's

most hypocritical: we are a kind that values shallow and inauthentic

aesthetics over substance.

The lip synching notwithstanding but how many recording artists then and

today are mostly the results of a money making scheme machine which

parade "artists" around as authentic.

I understand the German mastermind dude who knew that the

real singers did not have a marketable look, signing two pretty

boys to front the outfit.

Ugly singers + catchy songs = $ome money

pretty fake singers + catchy songs = ton$ of money

Who fucking cares anyways?....

I don't know that I agree with this - there's plenty of musicians who aren't attractive or don't fit the conventional ideas of beauty, who end up with long careers and big fanbases. I think ultimately people who say otherwise just use that as an excuse for their lack of success in the field, because at the end of the day if you truly have talent and something to say and music worth listening to, you'll take off and do well, whether you're cute or not.

armpit said:

jaimestarr79 said:

Milli Vanilli is no different than talentless Britney Spears. She never sings live she is always doing a terrible job at lipsynching.

I don't agree that Britney is talentless at all, but that whole thing aside - they're not comparable for another reason as well, which is that when Britney lipsyncs, that's still actually her voice on the playback. When Milli Vanilli did it, it was a completely different guy doing the singing. So, not the same.

^THIS^

armpit said:

jaimestarr79 said:

Milli Vanilli is no different than talentless Britney Spears. She never sings live she is always doing a terrible job at lipsynching.

I don't agree that Britney is talentless at all, but that whole thing aside - they're not comparable for another reason as well, which is that when Britney lipsyncs, that's still actually her voice on the playback. When Milli Vanilli did it, it was a completely different guy doing the singing. So, not the same.

armpit said:

duccichucka said:

What happened to Milli Vanilli was the recording music industry at it's

most hypocritical: we are a kind that values shallow and inauthentic

aesthetics over substance.

The lip synching notwithstanding but how many recording artists then and

today are mostly the results of a money making scheme machine which

parade "artists" around as authentic.

I understand the German mastermind dude who knew that the

real singers did not have a marketable look, signing two pretty

boys to front the outfit.

Ugly singers + catchy songs = $ome money

pretty fake singers + catchy songs = ton$ of money

Who fucking cares anyways?....

I don't know that I agree with this - there's plenty of musicians who aren't attractive or don't fit the conventional ideas of beauty, who end up with long careers and big fanbases. I think ultimately people who say otherwise just use that as an excuse for their lack of success in the field, because at the end of the day if you truly have talent and something to say and music worth listening to, you'll take off and do well, whether you're cute or not.

Missy is a great example of that.

Graycap23 said:

armpit said:

I don't know that I agree with this - there's plenty of musicians who aren't attractive or don't fit the conventional ideas of beauty, who end up with long careers and big fanbases. I think ultimately people who say otherwise just use that as an excuse for their lack of success in the field, because at the end of the day if you truly have talent and something to say and music worth listening to, you'll take off and do well, whether you're cute or not.

Missy is a great example of that.

And that girl Adele, and a ton of other artists....all the time I'm seeing people talk about how this or that musician is 'ugly' or this or that. So I really can't buy the 'you can't have success in music unless you're hot', thing.

armpit said:

Graycap23 said:

Missy is a great example of that.

And that girl Adele, and a ton of other artists....all the time I'm seeing people talk about how this or that musician is 'ugly' or this or that. So I really can't buy the 'you can't have success in music unless you're hot', thing.

It was abit different back in the late 80's though. There was general criticism after MTV became huge that you had to have the "MTV image" (i.e good looking and sexy) to get played. Also you had to enjoy doing music videos, which not all artists did (Bob Dylan and Bruce Springsteen spring to mind).

That was in America though. MTV Europe didn't even begin until 1987/88 and even then it was only shown very limitedly (UK didn't get it until sky came along in 1990). Frank Farian was known for letting others sing on his records, his act Boney M had Frank himself singing on hits like "Daddy cool" and "Rasputin", despite it obviously not him being on stage.

So with Milli Vanilli, like some other european acts, he got some pretty boys to act in the music videos and that was that. No big deal at the time for teenibopper acts in Europe. I dont think he or anybody knew how big they were going to be. Cheaply made videos like "Girl you know its true" were much more tailor made for the US and MTV, and not surprisenly, the duo became bigger in the US then in UK and Europe. Frank Farian struck gold and obviously there was no going back. Arista picked up the European version of the album, added some new tracks and took others away (added Diane Warrens "Blame it on the rain" for example) and then they blew up!

I dont care if they did or didn't sing, their first album and the various configurations of it was great. Even the remixes were often great (sampling "Bob George" on "Baby dont forget my number" 12 inch LOL), but MTV was criticized in the 80's for only being a platform for either talented good looking people (i.e George Michael, Michael Jackson), or simply good looking people (Sam Fox LOL),

and in that respect, Frank was smart enough to make the cheap music videos with good looking models, but I doubt he ever thought how they were going to take off, particually in the US.

paisleypark4 said:

MickyDolenz said:

Rob and Fab wanted to do their own vocals on the next record and refused to mime anymore, and Frank Farian basically said "I brought you into this world, and I'll take you out!". They did release an album under their own name and appeared on the Arsenio Hall (who constantly made jokes about them before) show to promote it.

It wasnt bad...and they even poked fun at themselves on a Pepsi commercial ...but the failure was too great.

[Edited 6/30/11 10:48am]

I dig a few tracks from both "The real milli vanilli album" and "Rob and Fabs" album.

Anyone else notice the Bobby Brownesque rap on "do i" is completely copy and pasted from the Newtrons "Similar attraction"? Not even the voice pitch is changed. And no credits to clear it at all LOL. Talk about cheeky. I like the song though LOL, and am guilty for digging their cover of "I want you to want me", which is blessed with decent backing vocals.

JoeTyler said:

People got mad when they discovered that Milli and Vanilli didn't sang on the actual record. It was, at that time, the biggest scam of all time in the pop world. They were just two cute models, for fuck's sake, not singers... scandal...

people could have forgiven the playback on stage; after all, it was common back then: Sabrina, Sam Fox, Paula Abdul, Jason Donovan, Kylie, or even Madonna (partially)...

of course, 1991 changed the rules of the game...

And lets not forget Martha Walsh's fall-outs with C+C Music Factory, Seduction, & Black Box over not getting album credit for being a lead and/or backing vocals on some of there songs were reported around the same time as the Milli Vanilli scandal.