ViintageJunkiie said:

bboy87 said:

Dr. Freeze said that the next album is going to include Blue Gangster and A Place With No Name. He was "remixing" them for the next one. I think Slave To The Rhythm may be included too. The version that we know isn't the original mix that we thought it was. It was originally produced by Babyface and LA Reid but the mix we've heard was done by Tricky Stewart (the same guy who produced Keep Your Head Up)

then there's Do You Know Where Your Children Are that I'm now sure is a recent remix

So i'm pretty sure these are songs that'll be considered since these were registered back in 2009...

Blue Gangsta 1998

A Place With No Name 1998

Slave to the Rhythm if this originally from the Dangerous sessions, then I'd guess 1990

Do You Know Where Your Children Are 1990

I Am the Loser 1998

Days in Gloucestershire 2007

Adore You
Boy No
Changes
Don't Be Messin goes as far back as 1985
Jungle
Just Remember
Light The Way
Neverland Landing earlier than 1993
Pray For Peace 2002
Red Eye earlier than 1993

[Edited 7/9/11 22:19pm]

I may be late, but has anyone ever heard of this idiot?

dag said:

I may be late, but has anyone ever heard of this idiot?

That's Miki Howard's son

Unholyalliance said:

Michael Jackson’s Top Ten Protest Songs

Whether protesting environmental destruction, racism, media distortion, materialism, war or injustice, Michael Jackson consistently used music as a means to challenge the status quo and change the world. While critics have been slow to acknowledge his dissident role, he stands alongside musicians like Bob Dylan, John Lennon and Radiohead as one of the most astute and powerful protest artists of the past century. Below are what I feel are ten of his best socially-conscious songs.
1. Earth Song
Probably the most epic protest song in popular music history. Here’s why.
Key lyric: “Now I don’t know where we are/ Although I know we’ve drifted far.”

2. They Don’t Care About Us
Sharp, militant, direct — a rallying call for the voiceless and oppressed.
Key lyric: “I can’t believe this is the land from which I came.”

3. Is It Scary
Shrewd use of the Gothic tradition to turn the tables on a judgmental society.
Key lyric: “Am I amusing you/Or just confusing you/Am I the beast you visualized?”

4. Scream
Pent-up angst unleashed with a vengeance.
Key lyric: “Tired of injustice/Tired of the schemes.”

5. We’ve Had Enough
Easily one of the best anti-war songs of the decade.
Key lyric: “It seems as if we have no voice/ It’s time for us to make a choice.”

6. Money
Denunciation of materialism and greed that rivals Pink Floyd.
Key lyric: “Are you infected with the same disease/ Of lust, gluttony and greed.”

7. Tabloid Junkie
Probably MJ’s best polemic against the media.
Key lyric: “You’re parasites in black and white/ Do anything for news.”

8. Black or White
Inspiring call for racial harmony with an undercurrent of indignation.
Key lyric: “Don’t tell me you agree with me/ When I saw you kickin’ dirt in my eye.”

9. Jam
Signaled MJ’s dramatic shift to more socially-conscious music in the early 90s, as he fends off the surrounding madness with music.
Key lyric: “The world keeps changing/Rearranging minds.”

10. Threatened
MJ takes on the role of monster again to highlight society’s fears and obsessions.
Key lyric: “You should feel threatened by me.”

Honorable mention: Shout, Why You Wanna Trip On Me, Be Not Always, D.S., There Must Be More to Life Than This

What do you think? What’s your Top Ten? What’s missing?

http://www.joevogel.net/m...test-songs

Didn't Freddy Mercury write There Must Be More TO Life Than This...

I'm not a huge fan of some of his protest songs...like Scream Tabloid Junkie (btw does Leave Me Alone count?) I feel like he was too pressured and frustrated...always have wondered what kind of songs he would've written instead if it weren't for those allegations and crazy media, paparazzi stuff....

[Edited 7/10/11 0:00am]

You mean the pervert who claimed to be related to MJ to get girls?

I'm not sure I agree with Joe Vogel's distinction of protest songs. I felt some of the songs he choose aren't really protest songs. For me a protest song needs to be more universal and a few of the songs he choose I think are some of Michael's most personal.

But each to their own.

Was listening to Superfly Sister yesteday and still laugh when I hear or see people misquote the lyrical content.

So many fan's insist the lyrics are "God is Jamming on the run" when it is clear MJ is singing "Got his Jimmy on the run". It felt like some fans didn't want to acknowledge the sexual nature of the song and the temptation the track is all about.

Unholyalliance said:

Imaginative said:

Ignorance. Quincy Jones was already a HUGE success on his own in the pop world before Thriller came out, with his own release

http://en.wikipedia.org/w...ike_That!!

http://www.discogs.com/Qu...ase/443041

Genre: Funk/Soul, Jazz

I admit that I didn't know about this album so I am wrong there, but according to the Billbard stats he still had minimal success with the album. Not enough to make a huge impact as indicated with the reactions that he received when MJ approached the head honchos about wanting Quincy to be his producer.

Also, across the board it's still considered to be a jazz album though. Not really a 'pop' one.

[Edited 7/9/11 22:33pm]

So let me get this straight. Instead of listening to the albums, you're actually copying and pasting GENRES from internet databases?

And then you then you follow that up with a statement that an album you've never heard is, "across the board... considered to be a jazz album"?

Go listen to the albums, and come back. There is no point in my attempting to "dance about archetecture," by talking to you about music you've never heard. Once you have listened to them both a bit, you may find yourself rethinking about Q's contribution to Jackson's Epic Trilogy.

[Edited 7/10/11 0:47am]

Hey guys, I was thinking that since I started this little thread here, which has climbed "up the charts" to an incredible 18 pages in 2-days (!) without a single negative comment (!!), producing nothing but joy to those who contribute (!!!)... well, that is a feat that is quite unprecedented here in the org... and I'm guessing that the thread will spawn other successful spin-offs and sequels.

What I'm trying to say is, that for now on, I think you should all refer to me as, "King of Org."

[Edited 7/10/11 1:23am]

bboy87 said:

ViintageJunkiie said:

So i'm pretty sure these are songs that'll be considered since these were registered back in 2009...

Blue Gangsta 1998

A Place With No Name 1998

Slave to the Rhythm if this originally from the Dangerous sessions, then I'd guess 1990

Do You Know Where Your Children Are 1990

I Am the Loser 1998

Days in Gloucestershire 2007

Adore You
Boy No
Changes
Don't Be Messin goes as far back as 1985
Jungle
Just Remember
Light The Way
Neverland Landing earlier than 1993
Pray For Peace 2002
Red Eye earlier than 1993

[Edited 7/9/11 22:19pm]

Wiki has "I Am the Loser" as being an outtake from the HIStory session. Hmmm...

Don't Be Messin Around has to be around 1982. I remember Bruce Swedien said it was a Thriller outtake and a "piano driven" record. It was supposed to be on the Thriller 25 but I guess it was replaced by For All Time or something...

Slave is from the Dangerous session?! I would have never guessed!

I wonder what Neverland Landing sounds like. I would think he wrote that in 1988 (when he purchased the ranch) but something tells me it was written between 92-93

Swa said:

Was listening to Superfly Sister yesteday and still laugh when I hear or see people misquote the lyrical content.

So many fan's insist the lyrics are "God is Jamming on the run" when it is clear MJ is singing "Got his Jimmy on the run". It felt like some fans didn't want to acknowledge the sexual nature of the song and the temptation the track is all about.

They would have to be fools to think it was anything, but the bolded. A lot of times I don't understand MJ, but that time I did.

I'm not even going to get into a long explanation:

1. No one considers that to be a pop album.

2. The album wasn't a smash success on the Billboard Top 100 or 200 as it's overall rank is at 142: http://ranger78.com/1978_music.html. Also, the highest charting single was at #21 on the Billboard Top 100.

3. I didn't deny QJ's humongous contribution to MJ's catalog at any time in my posts. I don't have to rethink it either, because I understand how important the BOTH of them impacted each other.

Whether or not I listen to the album, isn't going to change those three things. Ever.

Unholyalliance said:

whatsgoingon said:

You may have a point with the likes of Oprah, Madonna and even Prince, however Quincy was already a highly, regarded producer, well before MJ. I mean this is someone who was producing Jazz artists, Sinatra etc well before Jackson came along. As usual most hard-core fans are getting popular and reputable mixed up. Quincy with or without MJ was always highly reputable . The MJ connection made him more popular to the masses, but not necessarily more highly regarded.

[Edited 7/9/11 10:35am]

=/

Jesus christ.

All I said was: what would have happened to his career as a producer had it not been for Thriller? Would he have stayed doing jazz or would he have, eventually, ventured into r&b and/or popular music on his own and been as highly regarded in that area? I mean, when you are good at one thing, it's hard for people to see you doing something else. You have to prove yourself. This happened to Quincy too when Michael approached the people at CBS/Epic about wanting Quincy to be his producer right? Like damn! I didn't mention anything about whether he was popular or reputable or that he would have had no career as a producer had it not been for MJ.

Please, don't take your frustration with the MJ fandom on me.

(inb4 someone argues that jazz is popular music too. Yeah I know that, but, hopefully, you get what I'm saying.)

He would have continue to produce, he was a producer afterall, way before MJ and he continued to produce well after MJ. He produced, jazz mainly, but he had produced pop & R&B as well as sound tracks well before MJ came along. Around the same time he did OTW he produce an excellent album for George Benson, it may not of sold 50 million or so, but he was a successful producer well before MJ. There are many peeps that try to make it seem that MJ made Quincy career, they are no better than those who believe MJ would not have been has big as he was without Quincy.

whatsgoingon said:

He would have continue to produce, he was a producer afterall, way before MJ and he continued to produce well after MJ. He produced, jazz mainly, but he had produced [1] pop & R&B as well as sound tracks well before MJ came along. Around the same time he did OTW [2] he produce an excellent album for George Benson, it may not of sold 50 million or so, but [3] he was a successful producer well before MJ. [4] There are many peeps that try to make it seem that MJ made Quincy career, they are no better than those who believe MJ would not have been has big as he was without Quincy.

1. I just went over this with the other one. They are not really considered 'pop' albums.

2. Gimme the Night right? I acutally have that album. =3 A lot of the music I remember listening to when I was younger happen to be QJ productions.

3. Yeah. I'm pretty aware of that.

4. He would have had a career with or without him, but I don't think it would have been, exactly, the same.

Unholyalliance said:

whatsgoingon said:

He would have continue to produce, he was a producer afterall, way before MJ and he continued to produce well after MJ. He produced, jazz mainly, but he had produced [1] pop & R&B as well as sound tracks well before MJ came along. Around the same time he did OTW [2] he produce an excellent album for George Benson, it may not of sold 50 million or so, but [3] he was a successful producer well before MJ. [4] There are many peeps that try to make it seem that MJ made Quincy career, they are no better than those who believe MJ would not have been has big as he was without Quincy.

1. I just went over this with the other one. They are not really considered 'pop' albums.

2. Gimme the Night right? I acutally have that album. =3 A lot of the music I remember listening to when I was younger happen to be QJ productions.

3. Yeah. I'm pretty aware of that.

4. He would have had a career with or without him, but I don't think it would have been, exactly, the same.

Yea, his career may have been more productive, just like MJ might have been more productive and creative in the last 20 years without Thriller.

[Edited 7/10/11 7:18am]

Imaginative said:

Unholyalliance said:

All I said was: what would have happened to his career as a producer had it not been for Thriller? Would he have stayed doing jazz or would he have, eventually, ventured into r&b and/or popular music on his own and been as highly regarded in that area? I mean, when you are good at one thing, it's hard for people to see you doing something else. You have to prove yourself. This happened to Quincy too when Michael approached the people at CBS/Epic about wanting Quincy to be his producer right? Like damn! I didn't mention anything about whether he was popular or reputable or that he would have had no career as a producer had it not been for MJ.

Please, don't take your frustration with the MJ fandom on me.

(inb4 someone argues that jazz is popular music too. Yeah I know that, but, hopefully, you get what I'm saying.)

Actually, the better question would be, what would have happened to Michael Jackson's career if not for Quincy Jones?

[Edited 7/9/11 22:12pm]

Funny that you say that. It reminds me of something that i had read some time ago. What would have happened to the Beatles if not for George Martin, you know the producers of all their albums. I wonder what, indeed.

As for Michael, i think he would have managed it pretty well without Quincy since MJ was already writting music with his brothers for their band. And i think he did manage to make a very good music after Quincy.In fact, after QJ Michael made his best music,in my opinion.

To unholy: I'm not sure what the chart position of Q's albums has anything to do with anything I said. Nothing I said about the records makes chart positions even remotely relevant. Again, there is no point in my discussing music you haven't heard. The sililarieties between Stuff Like That, The Dude, Off the Wall and Thriller speak for themselves.

mjpersempre said:

Imaginative said:

Actually, the better question would be, what would have happened to Michael Jackson's career if not for Quincy Jones?

[Edited 7/9/11 22:12pm]

Funny that you say that. It reminds me of something that i had read some time ago. What would have happened to the Beatles if not for George Martin, you know the producers of all their albums. I wonder what, indeed.

Lol. Yes, I know who George Martin is. It's a little off-topic to bring up The Beatles, but let's just say it's a very good analogy, as the contibutions of both are EXTEREMELY significant. If you truly "indeed, wonder what would have happened to The Beatles w/o Martin," you should start a thread to that effect. There will be plenty here to educate you.

As I said, I don't have to make any statements about Q's contribution to the Trilogy, Q's solo music of the period makes it abundantly clear what his contribution was, for those who are interested.

The Estate Message To Fans Regarding Aaron and Latoya

The Estate of Michael Jackson Message to Fans - RE: Aaron Carter & Latoya Jackson
Fans have asked the Estate to elaborate on its decision to respond to some of LaToya Jackson’s comments as she promoted her new book, as well as its decision not to respond formally to a false and erroneous report out of Australia that allegedly quoted Aaron Carter as saying he and Michael used drugs together.

If someone severely misrepresents the facts surrounding Michael’s Estate and makes serious, reckless and false accusations that go unanswered, it demeans and maligns Michael’s memory and legacy, and may also potentially hurt the business of the Estate, thereby affecting the future earnings that benefit Michael’s beneficiaries.

When a tabloid report like the Aaron Carter story occurs, involving claims made by people who knew Michael during his life, the Estate always must ask the same questions: how credible is the source; can it be verified; and would issuing a public response only put an unwarranted spotlight on a questionable, negative story about Michael the Estate has no desire to publicize?

In this case, the Executors knew the account came from a marginal celebrity gossip site, and was conducted by a journalist with a long history of controversy involving Michael and his family. Furthermore, the Executors also knew Aaron Carter had previously denied the allegations to Peoplemagazine, something that was noted to any media who asked the Estate about the report. In the end, the Estate believes the story took care of itself: Aaron Carter’s decision to refute it himself was the best solution, in that it called the most attention possible to the credibility of this story. Any benefit from the Estate calling out irresponsible media reportage could then possibly be outweighed by the detriment of even more media spotlight on a bogus story.

As for LaToya Jackson, the Estate felt compelled to respond to irresponsible and untruthful statements that were defamatory, and which grossly misrepresented facts that are in the public court record. LaToya was going on many television shows, repeating some of the same bogus info, and the Estate felt it important to try and contain any additional/future damage beyond that which had already been done, and, sadly, which had already started to be repeated as fact by other media to promote their sites or sell their news reports.

It’s probably an impossible task to make decisions that everyone likes. Some will agree, some will disagree, but in the end, it is the ultimate responsibility of the Co-Executors to fulfill their obligations per Michael’s wishes by doing what they think best in each and every instance, to protect, preserve, and grow Michael’s legacy and memory for Michael and his fans, and to protect, preserve and grow the Estate for its beneficiaries.

http://www.mj4justice.com...-news.html

seeingvoices12 said:

It's really mindblowing the way he sings this song , His vocals , No one can sing like this....what a rare voice!

+1

Love the backing vocals on this one as well.

Imaginative said:

To unholy: I'm not sure what the chart position of Q's albums has anything to do with anything I said. Nothing I said about the records makes chart positions even remotely relevant. Again, there is no point in my discussing music you haven't heard. The sililarieties between Stuff Like That, The Dude, Off the Wall and Thriller speak for themselves.

mjpersempre said:

Funny that you say that. It reminds me of something that i had read some time ago. What would have happened to the Beatles if not for George Martin, you know the producers of all their albums. I wonder what, indeed.

Lol. Yes, I know who George Martin is. It's a little off-topic to bring up The Beatles, but let's just say it's a very good analogy, as the contibutions of both are EXTEREMELY significant. If you truly "indeed, wonder what would have happened to The Beatles w/o Martin," you should start a thread to that effect. There will be plenty here to educate you.

As I said, I don't have to make any statements about Q's contribution to the Trilogy, Q's solo music of the period makes it abundantly clear what his contribution was, for those who are interested.

Good, am glad you know it. Am a huge Beatles fan and i don't like when people brush that away not giving Martin's the credits that he deserves (You see that applies to fans of other artists too. In fact, i have seen some pretty delusional people of those so called "serious artists") Anyway, no one here denied QJ contribution to MJ three albums. But that doesn't mean that he was the beginning or the end. He was a significant contributor but the creative force was MJ. I think that most people don't know that is because MJ didn't talk to much about his work. We only get to see Quincy speak about MJ and their work together and somehow people think that he was the mastermind behind those albums and MJ was just a puppet that fallowed his orders. That's not true. In fact, if it was for Quincy then we wouldn't have the masterpieces like Billie Jean or Smooth Criminal in Thriller or Bad because QJ didn't like them.

So yeah, don't try to underestimate Mike's talend or work or whatever. You may not like him, find him eccentric or whatever but he was a amazing talented dude. In fact, i am convinced that people really don't know how important MJ was was as an artist and as a figure in general. His eccentricities prevent them from reaching him and studying him.Music critics and and culture critics (sorry i don't know the word) should give it a try and explore the phenomenon called Michael Jackson.

mjpersempre said

You may not like him, find him eccentric or whatever but he was a amazing talented dude. In fact, i am convinced that people really don't know how important MJ was was as an artist and as a figure in general. His eccentricities prevent them from reaching him and studying him.Music critics and and culture critics (sorry i don't know the word) should give it a try and explore the phenomenon called Michael Jackson.

I do like him! Of course, he was amazingly talented. That was obvious from when he was a child.

ViintageJunkiie said:

bboy87 said:

Wiki has "I Am the Loser" as being an outtake from the HIStory session. Hmmm...

Don't Be Messin Around has to be around 1982. I remember Bruce Swedien said it was a Thriller outtake and a "piano driven" record. It was supposed to be on the Thriller 25 but I guess it was replaced by For All Time or something...

Slave is from the Dangerous session?! I would have never guessed!

I wonder what Neverland Landing sounds like. I would think he wrote that in 1988 (when he purchased the ranch) but something tells me it was written between 92-93

This is really Interesting ! I really want to listen to the full version of that song..........

I asked Bboy a question on the last page but as always he ignores me.

babybugz said:

I asked Bboy a question on the last page but as always he ignores me.

About Jay-Z? Yes, Do You Know Where Your Children Are is the same song with the fan made added Jay-Z verse...

MattyJam said:

seeingvoices12 said:

It's really mindblowing the way he sings this song , His vocals , No one can sing like this....what a rare voice!

+1

Love the backing vocals on this one as well.

For me Tabloid Junkie was one of the stand out tracks from HIStory. I felt it had a lot to say, responded to the preHIStory drama and stated a clear point of view for Michael.

Once again Michael is in the role of media victim, but this time he is standing up against the machine. Starting with a role call of the weird stories that became synonymous with his celebrity, the song shifts into a hard hitting, vocal spitting groove that mixes anger in the lead vocals with an alluring softness in the harmonies of the backing vocals. And once again showing his prowess in being able to meld a catchy pop melody with an attacking vocal the chorus lands its message of fact versus fiction where “just because you read in a magazine or see it on a tv screen don’t make factual”. Michael also cleverly layers in various pieces of gossip through the song around the typical speculation over him being homosexual, to a newsreport about Bubbles getting married. Again, this is a song that deserved to be a single, not just for it’s sure chart success but because it was convincing response to the media madness that revolved around him.

[Edited 7/10/11 16:13pm]

Quincy & Michael

I don't think anyone can deny the influence each had on each other's careers. Quincy was very much the mentor to Michael, someone on his side, who encouraged him to work hard, to push himself and grow as a writer, composer, singer and producer. Quincy by his own admission talks about bringing together the A-Team of musicians and engineers to help realise Michael's vision. This is what a producer should do. Around Off The Wall, Michael wouldn't have been in a position to do this.

I do feel though that a lot of the time many don't recognise the partnership they had. Anyone who thinks Quincy was the key to the talent obviously hasn't heard Michael's demos. This isn't to take away from Quincy's obvious contributions, but to show the true balance and mutual talent brought to the projects.

Michael has always paid respect to Quincy and the talent he brought to the recording process, likewise Quincy has always talked about how on point Michael was in the studio and the talent he brought. The two of them were a great partnership that benefited from the talents of the other.

The fact that both continued to have success beyond their 3 album partnership is evidence of both of their talents and abilities.

Swa said:

Quincy & Michael

I don't think anyone can deny the influence each had on each other's careers. Quincy was very much the mentor to Michael, someone on his side, who encouraged him to work hard, to push himself and grow as a writer, composer, singer and producer. Quincy by his own admission talks about bringing together the A-Team of musicians and engineers to help realise Michael's vision. This is what a producer should do. Around Off The Wall, Michael wouldn't have been in a position to do this.

I do feel though that a lot of the time many don't recognise the partnership they had. Anyone who thinks Quincy was the key to the talent obviously hasn't heard Michael's demos. This isn't to take away from Quincy's obvious contributions, but to show the true balance and mutual talent brought to the projects.

Michael has always paid respect to Quincy and the talent he brought to the recording process, likewise Quincy has always talked about how on point Michael was in the studio and the talent he brought. The two of them were a great partnership that benefited from the talents of the other.

The fact that both continued to have success beyond their 3 album partnership is evidence of both of their talents and abilities.

Dont Stop Til You Get Enough (Demo)

Working Day and Night (Demo)

Wanna Be Starting Something (Demo)

Billie Jean (Home Demo)

Billie Jean (2nd Demo)

Girl Is Mine (Solo Demo)

The music and lyrics were already there, I think Quincy pushed him harder and of course added that "UMPH" to the records. Would the songs have been more popular had Q not had a hand in the production of the albums? Who knows...

bboy87 said:

dag said:

I may be late, but has anyone ever heard of this idiot?

That's Miki Howard's son

I was laughin' at his ass with a friend a week ago on my wall.

Gatdamn...I'ma go Beat It on his ass...

babybugz said:

I asked Bboy a question on the last page but as always he ignores me.

No I don't!

but Jay Z was added by a fan

Imaginative said:

To unholy: [1]I'm not sure what the chart position of Q's albums has anything to do with anything I said. Nothing I said about the records makes chart positions even remotely relevant.

[2]Again, there is no point in my discussing music you haven't heard.

1. They have a lot to do with everything actually. If it didn't no one would have doubted Quincy's abilities to produce a pop album in the first place.

2. Just like you huh?:

[Edited 7/10/11 21:49pm]