This album does not reach Jacksons standards. The only brothers who delivered good songs on this album were Jackie (Torture, Wait) and Randy (One more chance). I can't believed the Jacksons actually released this shitty album after having fought so hard for artistic freedom and after having released two classics (Destiny and Triumph). So disappointing...sad really...They should have had Jermaine's "Tell me I'm not dreaming" on the record and maybe some of Michael's Thriller outtakes.

Happy 27th birthday to Victory.

manthevan said:

They should have had Jermaine's "Tell me I'm not dreaming" on the record and maybe some of Michael's Thriller outtakes.

Jermaine wasn't involved with Victory at first. He rejoined the group halfway though the sessions. That's why there's some publicity pictures shot that don't have Jermaine in them. They were taken before he returned. Torture was originally a duet with Jackie & Mike. When Jermaine came aboard, his vocals were added and Jackie's lead was removed, although on the maxi single version Jackie's adlibs are left in.

MickyDolenz said:

manthevan said:

They should have had Jermaine's "Tell me I'm not dreaming" on the record and maybe some of Michael's Thriller outtakes.

Jermaine wasn't involved with Victory at first. He rejoined the group halfway though the sessions. That's why there's some publicity pictures shot that don't have Jermaine in them. They were taken before he returned. Torture was originally a duet with Jackie & Mike. When Jermaine came aboard, his vocals were added and Jackie's lead was removed, although on the maxi single version Jackie's adlibs are left in.

He had agreed to do the album but he didn't really get involved until mid'84 (near the end), around the same time he was recording and promoting his Arista debut so it was an even bigger conflict

MickyDolenz said:

manthevan said:

They should have had Jermaine's "Tell me I'm not dreaming" on the record and maybe some of Michael's Thriller outtakes.

Jermaine wasn't involved with Victory at first. He rejoined the group halfway though the sessions. That's why there's some publicity pictures shot that don't have Jermaine in them. They were taken before he returned. Torture was originally a duet with Jackie & Mike. When Jermaine came aboard, his vocals were added and Jackie's lead was removed, although on the maxi single version Jackie's adlibs are left in.

I always found it strange the way some artists release solo albums at the same time that the group/band that they are a part of,releases their album.How can they properly promote both projects? I remember this same thing happening with Philip Bailey of Earth Wind and Fire.His first solo album was released around the same time as EW&F's 'Electric Universe' album.

In any case,Jermaine's album was much better than 'Victory'.With strong songs like "Dynamite","Do What You Do" and the aforementioned "Tell Me I'm Not Dreamin",he came out on top.

"One More Chance" is my favorite Jacksons song of all time... I play it almost daily. One of the best vocal performances and melodies I've ever heard. I also love "Torture" and "Body", and I kinda like "Be Not Always", "State Of Shock" and "Wait". The other two songs, I don't much care for... Also, it's way too mid-80s sounding. It sounds very much of it's time.

manthevan said:

This album does not reach Jacksons standards. The only brothers who delivered good songs on this album were Jackie (Torture, Wait) and Randy (One more chance). I can't believed the Jacksons actually released this shitty album after having fought so hard for artistic freedom and after having released two classics (Destiny and Triumph). So disappointing...sad really...They should have had Jermaine's "Tell me I'm not dreaming" on the record and maybe some of Michael's Thriller outtakes.

I agree,the album really is crappy.Michael didn't even wanna participate at all.His mother talked him into it.The brothers were just trying to ride MJ's 'Thriller' coattails.Michael should have permanently left this group after Off The Wall.That album was his declaration of independence.He proved that he no longer needed his brothers.How many people seriously went to one of the Victory shows to see Tito or Marlon?

SoulAlive said:

manthevan said:

This album does not reach Jacksons standards. The only brothers who delivered good songs on this album were Jackie (Torture, Wait) and Randy (One more chance). I can't believed the Jacksons actually released this shitty album after having fought so hard for artistic freedom and after having released two classics (Destiny and Triumph). So disappointing...sad really...They should have had Jermaine's "Tell me I'm not dreaming" on the record and maybe some of Michael's Thriller outtakes.

I agree,the album really is crappy.Michael didn't even wanna participate at all.His mother talked him into it.The brothers were just trying to ride MJ's 'Thriller' coattails.Michael should have permanently left this group after Off The Wall.That album was his declaration of independence.He proved that he no longer needed his brothers.How many people seriously went to one of the Victory shows to see Tito or Marlon?

Well.....Michael was all for the album. He was working on songs for it after Thriller was done but it started to get tense between the brothers (the same reason why 2300 Jackson Street was the last album by the group) and he simply opted out to simply being a member and not being the frontman

It's been said he wrote Liberian Girl for Victory. Imagine if THAT had been on the album

80s Comedy Video of the Day: "Body" by the Jacksons (1984)

SoulAlive said:

I always found it strange the way some artists release solo albums at the same time that the group/band that they are a part of,releases their album.How can they properly promote both projects? I remember this same thing happening with Philip Bailey of Earth Wind and Fire.His first solo album was released around the same time as EW&F's 'Electric Universe' album.

Jermaine, Randy (and the Gypsys), & Jackie all released solo albums around the same time 2300 Jackson Street was out. Randy didn't even participate in some of the promotion for the group album and there's TV footage of the Jackson 3. Back in the 1960's James Brown would release 5 albums in a year.

SoulAlive said:

80s Comedy Video of the Day: "Body" by the Jacksons (1984)

Michael saw the concept and thought "Yeah...... I'm gonna stay home"

If you look at the beginning, they're at Hayvenhurt. You'll probably see Michael looking out the window shaking his head if you look hard enough

^^^I wonder if Mike got video ideas from Jermaine. Jermaine did a prison video (Dynamite) and a video with Iman (Do What You Do, which also was about gangsters). Mike later made Smooth Criminal, Remember The Time, and They Don't Care About Us.

MickyDolenz said:

^^^I wonder if Mike got video ideas from Jermaine. Jermaine did a prison video (Dynamite) and a video with Iman (Do What You Do, which also was about gangsters). Mike later made Smooth Criminal, Remember The Time, and They Don't Care About Us.

I remember Pop Up video said that the dance sequence in Dynamite was inspired by Beat It and that the director cut it short because he wasn't Michael

SoulAlive said:

manthevan said:

This album does not reach Jacksons standards. The only brothers who delivered good songs on this album were Jackie (Torture, Wait) and Randy (One more chance). I can't believed the Jacksons actually released this shitty album after having fought so hard for artistic freedom and after having released two classics (Destiny and Triumph). So disappointing...sad really...They should have had Jermaine's "Tell me I'm not dreaming" on the record and maybe some of Michael's Thriller outtakes.

I agree,the album really is crappy.Michael didn't even wanna participate at all.His mother talked him into it.The brothers were just trying to ride MJ's 'Thriller' coattails.Michael should have permanently left this group after Off The Wall.That album was his declaration of independence.He proved that he no longer needed his brothers.How many people seriously went to one of the Victory shows to see Tito or Marlon?

Well I agree that he shouldn't have done Victory if he didn't feel for it. But how can anyone say that Triumph which was recorded post Off the Wall was a let down? That is one of the strongest albums by any Jackson and the following tour is perhaps Michael at his peak.

manthevan said:

SoulAlive said:

I agree,the album really is crappy.Michael didn't even wanna participate at all.His mother talked him into it.The brothers were just trying to ride MJ's 'Thriller' coattails.Michael should have permanently left this group after Off The Wall.That album was his declaration of independence.He proved that he no longer needed his brothers.How many people seriously went to one of the Victory shows to see Tito or Marlon?

Well I agree that he shouldn't have done Victory if he didn't feel for it. But how can anyone say that Triumph which was recorded post Off the Wall was a let down? That is one of the strongest albums by any Jackson and the following tour is perhaps Michael at his peak.

the Triumph Tour was one of the best. I love the footage that leaked out back in 2004

Yeah, and i think that the brothers as a group still had a strong following who attended that Triumph Tour, although Mike's star was on the rise but perhaps not yet as major than post-Thriller. The Triumph album can't be ignored imo, with strong work by the brothers as a team. The up following tour was indeed awesome and great that an official live album has been recorded as well. Tito hyping up the crowd with his fire torch lol, and then those bright flashlights rising like an aeroplane behind the slowly-appearing silhouettes of the group. Talking about an epic entrance. All these elements are unmissable in their musical dynasty.

Shango said:

Yeah, and i think that the brothers as a group still had a strong following who attended that Triumph Tour, although Mike's star was on the rise but perhaps not yet as major than post-Thriller. The Triumph album can't be ignored imo, with strong work by the brothers as a team. The up following tour was indeed awesome and great that an official live album has been recorded as well. Tito hyping up the crowd with his fire torch lol, and then those bright flashlights rising like an aeroplane behind the slowly-appearing silhouettes of the group. Talking about an epic entrance. All these elements are unmissable in their musical dynasty.

I've always wondered how they promoted it because I haven't heard or read ANYTHING about them doing interviews and TV appearances to promote it. I know they showed The Triumph/Can You Feel It on American Bandstand and Soul Train but what else did they do? The tour started in mid '81 and the album was released in the summer of '80

bboy87 said:

Shango said:

Yeah, and i think that the brothers as a group still had a strong following who attended that Triumph Tour, although Mike's star was on the rise but perhaps not yet as major than post-Thriller. The Triumph album can't be ignored imo, with strong work by the brothers as a team. The up following tour was indeed awesome and great that an official live album has been recorded as well. Tito hyping up the crowd with his fire torch lol, and then those bright flashlights rising like an aeroplane behind the slowly-appearing silhouettes of the group. Talking about an epic entrance. All these elements are unmissable in their musical dynasty.

I've always wondered how they promoted it because I haven't heard or read ANYTHING about them doing interviews and TV appearances to promote it. I know they showed The Triumph/Can You Feel It on American Bandstand and Soul Train but what else did they do? The tour started in mid '81 and the album was released in the summer of '80

Ebony/Jet/Essence/Right On Magazine. Local radio.

^ something like that

I remember though seeing a commercial of the live-album on youtube, with live-footage showing while hearing James Darth Earl Vader Jones' voice

Wasn't James also the voice on the "Can You Feel It" video ?

I wish they would release some Jacksons outtakes. I want some Destiny, Thriumph, Victory outtakes.

bboy87 said:

Shango said:

Yeah, and i think that the brothers as a group still had a strong following who attended that Triumph Tour, although Mike's star was on the rise but perhaps not yet as major than post-Thriller. The Triumph album can't be ignored imo, with strong work by the brothers as a team. The up following tour was indeed awesome and great that an official live album has been recorded as well. Tito hyping up the crowd with his fire torch lol, and then those bright flashlights rising like an aeroplane behind the slowly-appearing silhouettes of the group. Talking about an epic entrance. All these elements are unmissable in their musical dynasty.

I've always wondered how they promoted it because I haven't heard or read ANYTHING about them doing interviews and TV appearances to promote it. I know they showed The Triumph/Can You Feel It on American Bandstand and Soul Train but what else did they do? The tour started in mid '81 and the album was released in the summer of '80

Radio was pretty much segregated during that time (in the US) and The Jacksons were considered a R&B group. So Triumph most likely was promoted the most at black radio and media outlets.

LittleBLUECorvette said:

I wish they would release some Jacksons outtakes. I want some Destiny, Thriumph, Victory outtakes.

I’m with you.

MickyDolenz said:

bboy87 said:

I've always wondered how they promoted it because I haven't heard or read ANYTHING about them doing interviews and TV appearances to promote it. I know they showed The Triumph/Can You Feel It on American Bandstand and Soul Train but what else did they do? The tour started in mid '81 and the album was released in the summer of '80

Radio was pretty much segregated during that time (in the US) and The Jacksons were considered a R&B group. So Triumph most likely was promoted the most at black radio and media outlets.

But you can find a lot of footage of them promoting The Jacksons, Goin' Places, Destiny, and Michael promoting Off The Wall, but nothing on Triumph. It seems like they didn't do any TV appearances for the album. We know Michael didn't

bboy87 said:

MickyDolenz said:

Radio was pretty much segregated during that time (in the US) and The Jacksons were considered a R&B group. So Triumph most likely was promoted the most at black radio and media outlets.

But you can find a lot of footage of them promoting The Jacksons, Goin' Places, Destiny, and Michael promoting Off The Wall, but nothing on Triumph. It seems like they didn't do any TV appearances for the album. We know Michael didn't

I saw some things on youtube but I guess they just jumped right into touring for it.

bboy87 said:

MickyDolenz said:

Radio was pretty much segregated during that time (in the US) and The Jacksons were considered a R&B group. So Triumph most likely was promoted the most at black radio and media outlets.

But you can find a lot of footage of them promoting The Jacksons, Goin' Places, Destiny, and Michael promoting Off The Wall, but nothing on Triumph. It seems like they didn't do any TV appearances for the album. We know Michael didn't

I'm thinkin Randy accident put hold on promotion.

I don't even count Victory as a Jacksons album. I think Triumph was really the group's swan song. Least the group we know as the Jackson 5/Jacksons. That whole sound was created with FIVE guys. When Victory came into play, it was originally going to be the 1976-1983 lineup of Jackie, Tito, Marlon, Michael & Randy. Jermaine getting into it made recording difficult for him (and he should've known better). Plus, once things got in the mix for Michael as regards to the buzz following Thriller it became harder for him to get involved. Plus the other brothers were also working on solo tracks. What eventually happened is the six brothers put in solo works and a half-hearted group effort ("Torture") and released it to build buzz around their tour and try to build the other brothers' careers up...

Result: it didn't work. Despite a backlash for ticket prices, Michael mostly came out of that tour still the star and the brothers found themselves in a slower climb down from relevance.

As for Triumph and its tour, they HARDLY promoted it. No. Michael had become wary about interviews and being on TV was not something he was particularly interested in (that explains why after 1980 he didn't appear in many TV shows except for the "Diana!" '81 special). So the only means they had in promoting the tour and the album itself was through radio. Plus they had to wait until Randy recuperated from his car wreck to get the tour going in the first place.

Overall what went on between 1979 and 1984 was a mess.

babybugz said:

bboy87 said:

But you can find a lot of footage of them promoting The Jacksons, Goin' Places, Destiny, and Michael promoting Off The Wall, but nothing on Triumph. It seems like they didn't do any TV appearances for the album. We know Michael didn't

I saw some things on youtube but I guess they just jumped right into touring for it.

The Destiny/Off The Wall Tour ended in late '79 and they did a couple of shows in 1980 but the Triumph Tour didn't start until a year after the album was released

I can listen to the album but I do wish it could have been better considering it was ALL the brothers included. They should have gone out better than that.

bboy87 said:

MickyDolenz said:

Radio was pretty much segregated during that time (in the US) and The Jacksons were considered a R&B group. So Triumph most likely was promoted the most at black radio and media outlets.

But you can find a lot of footage of them promoting The Jacksons, Goin' Places, Destiny, and Michael promoting Off The Wall, but nothing on Triumph. It seems like they didn't do any TV appearances for the album. We know Michael didn't

Unless they went on Soul Train, American Bandstand, Hee Haw, or Solid Gold, there wasnt a lot of places for any music group to appear on television in 1980. Remember there was only 3 networks + PBS and a couple of local UHF channels, and the stations went off the air at 11PM or midnight. Midnight Special might have still been on, and I think Barbara Mandrell & The Mandrell Sisters show was on. Radio was where most acts did promotion. They would talk to radio DJ's in different cities. Some appeared on local TV programs.

MickyDolenz said:

bboy87 said:

But you can find a lot of footage of them promoting The Jacksons, Goin' Places, Destiny, and Michael promoting Off The Wall, but nothing on Triumph. It seems like they didn't do any TV appearances for the album. We know Michael didn't

Unless they went on Soul Train, American Bandstand, or Solid Gold

The Jacksons didn't appear on Soul Train, American Bandstand OR Solid Gold AFTER 1979 so no they weren't on TV at all in 1980. It much had to do with Michael's solo success, I believe, and due to Randy's accident. Otherwise if things had been slightly different, they would've been on those shows in 1980-81 but they weren't.