IMHO, this album is horrible & I love these guys! "One More Chance", "State Of Shock", & "Be Not Always" [I know alot of people hate this song, but I guarantee that if some Caucasian hippie chick released this track, it would be regarded as a classic] are the only songs on this album worth anything....& The album cover is Dope too! This is by far the worst "Jacksons" Album involving MJ. They didn't even record any of these songs together, & Joe Jackson is a major reason why this album sucks so bad.....

Wait, when I clicked on this thread I thought it was going to be about Triumph.

Now that's a kick ass album. I always get the titles mixed up.

MickyDolenz said:

I had a Right On! magazine in the 80's that talked about Victory before it was released. I think Rockwell was on the cover. It mentioned some song titles, and several of them didn't wind up being on the album. I don't remember exactly, but I think the article said around 30 songs had been recorded up to that point.

I remember that issue, I still have it in a box.

silverchild said:

The one song that should've been included with this album is this...

As huge as the song was played on radio back in the day, this would've definitely given this LP better status had it been on Victory. This was just EPIC! It ended up on Jermaine's Dynamite LP. I think he and Michael did this during the Victory tour.

I agree!! This song is better than anything on Victory.If it had been on Victory,it would have been the highlight of that album.It also would have been a MASSIVE hit single too.When it appeared on Jermaine's album,Epic refused to allow Arista to release it as a single.

SoulAlive said:

silverchild said:

The one song that should've been included with this album is this...

As huge as the song was played on radio back in the day, this would've definitely given this LP better status had it been on Victory. This was just EPIC! It ended up on Jermaine's Dynamite LP. I think he and Michael did this during the Victory tour.

I agree!! This song is better than anything on Victory.If it had been on Victory,it would have been the highlight of that album.It also would have been a MASSIVE hit single too.When it appeared on Jermaine's album,Epic refused to allow Arista to release it as a single.

There's only one problem...Michael HATED IT. He did not want to do it and only did it because his mom asked him to.

SoulAlive said:

Epic refused to allow Arista to release it as a single.

It's funny that Sony owns Arista now.

shorttrini said:

SoulAlive said:

I agree!! This song is better than anything on Victory.If it had been on Victory,it would have been the highlight of that album.It also would have been a MASSIVE hit single too.When it appeared on Jermaine's album,Epic refused to allow Arista to release it as a single.

There's only one problem...Michael HATED IT. He did not want to do it and only did it because his mom asked him to.

seriously?! That song is better than his own "State Of Shock"!

MickyDolenz said:

SoulAlive said:

Epic refused to allow Arista to release it as a single.

It's funny that Sony owns Arista now.

yep

SoulAlive said:

shorttrini said:

There's only one problem...Michael HATED IT. He did not want to do it and only did it because his mom asked him to.

seriously?! That song is better than his own "State Of Shock"!

Michael did not want to play, "second fiddle", to Jermaine. This was the main reason for his dislike of the song.

shorttrini said:

SoulAlive said:

seriously?! That song is better than his own "State Of Shock"!

Michael did not want to play, "second fiddle", to Jermaine. This was the main reason for his dislike of the song.

Ha can you imagine...

"Yeah Thriller was great and all, but you should hear Jermaine's new album"

It was the end of the road. Truth be told, the whole reunion sounds(ed) like a forced cash-in strategy. The production is dated, and that's telling cuz many mid-80's albums are not dated at all. Too many electronic gimmicks here and there, the soul was gone. This is not R&B/Funk, this is Hard-Dance...

The only songs I truly care for are Torture and obviously State of Shock

the cover art is awesome, it's soooooooooooo 1985 but in a positive way...

In a way, Victory is a Toto album with the brothers singing on it.

MickyDolenz said:

In a way, Victory is a Toto album with the brothers singing on it.

Toto only played on two tracks, Torture and The Hurt, two of the best from the LP.

Tittypants said:

IMHO, this album is horrible & I love these guys! "One More Chance", "State Of Shock", & "Be Not Always" [I know alot of people hate this song, but I guarantee that if some Caucasian hippie chick released this track, it would be regarded as a classic] are the only songs on this album worth anything....& The album cover is Dope too! This is by far the worst "Jacksons" Album involving MJ. They didn't even record any of these songs together, & Joe Jackson is a major reason why this album sucks so bad.....

Hey, hey, this is an appreciation for Victory!

LittleBLUECorvette said:

MickyDolenz said:

In a way, Victory is a Toto album with the brothers singing on it.

Toto only played on two tracks, Torture and The Hurt, two of the best from the LP.

But, the several members of Toto, co-produced the album. I LOVE this album, because of its', "unfinished", "demo", feel.

shorttrini said:

LittleBLUECorvette said:

Toto only played on two tracks, Torture and The Hurt, two of the best from the LP.

But, the several members of Toto, co-produced the album. I LOVE this album, because of its', "unfinished", "demo", feel.

They co-produced two with the Jacksons (The Hurt and Wait) and Jeff plays drums on "Wait." The other 5 are all one of the brothers compositions.

shorttrini said:

LittleBLUECorvette said:

Toto only played on two tracks, Torture and The Hurt, two of the best from the LP.

But, the several members of Toto, co-produced the album. I LOVE this album, because of its', "unfinished", "demo", feel.

I thought I was the only one who felt that way. It feels like an album of demos and outtakes but I do love the production on the record.

ViintageJunkiie said:

shorttrini said:

But, the several members of Toto, co-produced the album. I LOVE this album, because of its', "unfinished", "demo", feel.

I thought I was the only one who felt that way. It feels like an album of demos and outtakes but I do love the production on the record.

On another forum, I called the album a "Late night" album. It has like a 2:30 AM feel to it.

LittleBLUECorvette said:

ViintageJunkiie said:

I thought I was the only one who felt that way. It feels like an album of demos and outtakes but I do love the production on the record.

On another forum, I called the album a "Late night" album. It has like a 2:30 AM feel to it.

Mmm hmm! It sounds sooo 1984 too!

Torture, Wait and One more Chance make the album for me!

State of Shock is someting like a guilty pleasure of mine That song would have rocked if they would have released the version with Freddie Mercury on it...imagine that! Don't get me wrong, I love me some Mick Jagger from time to time, but dude really ruined this song for me.

Be not always is a really nice song, and MJ really shines on it!

But I guess the reason that Victory didn't really work as an album was that it, indeed, was a rushed job! And you could tell that MJ wasn't really putting a lot of effort into this project...I mean, he didn't even appear in the video to Torture, they had to use a cardboard stand-in...production value

Thriumph remains their best album for me!

SoulAlive said:

shorttrini said:

There's only one problem...Michael HATED IT. He did not want to do it and only did it because his mom asked him to.

seriously?! That song is better than his own "State Of Shock"!

i LOVE Victory! Don't know why. Perhaps because i was 14 at the time and loved MJ to pieces. But it was an exciting time in my fandom. seeing the brothers back 'together' as it were.

Doalwa said:

I love me some Mick Jagger from time to time, but dude really ruined this song for me.

How is that? It sounds like a Rolling Stones song to me.

ViintageJunkiie said:

LittleBLUECorvette said:

On another forum, I called the album a "Late night" album. It has like a 2:30 AM feel to it.

Mmm hmm! It sounds sooo 1984 too!

the recording studio probably smelled like curl free sheen and polyester

my own fantasy tracklisting

Side A

Torture
Wait
One More Chance
Tell Me I'm Not Dreamin' (Too Good To Be True)
Oh Mother (re-record it and put the brothers on background vocals)

Side B

State Of Shock
Don't Stand Another Chance (Marlon could've kept it for Victory and had he and Michael on co-lead)
The Hurt
Body
Victory

ViintageJunkiie said:

shorttrini said:

But, the several members of Toto, co-produced the album. I LOVE this album, because of its', "unfinished", "demo", feel.

I thought I was the only one who felt that way. It feels like an album of demos and outtakes but I do love the production on the record.

No. You're not. I play this album, at least once a week. The "unpolished" sound, and simplicity of some of the lyrics, is what does it for me.

shorttrini said:

ViintageJunkiie said:

I thought I was the only one who felt that way. It feels like an album of demos and outtakes but I do love the production on the record.

No. You're not. I play this album, at least once a week. The "unpolished" sound, and simplicity of some of the lyrics, is what does it for me.

YES! It just sounds so unmixed but it's music to my ears. I wanna hear the outtakes from that session the most out of all the albums

bboy87 said:

ViintageJunkiie said:

Mmm hmm! It sounds sooo 1984 too!

the recording studio probably smelled like curl free sheen and polyester

Or those black and white striped pants MJ and Randy were trading off every other show during the Victory tour

bboy87 said:

my own fantasy tracklisting

Side A

Torture
Wait
One More Chance
Tell Me I'm Not Dreamin' (Too Good To Be True)
Oh Mother (re-record it and put the brothers on background vocals)

Side B

State Of Shock
Don't Stand Another Chance (Marlon could've kept it for Victory and had he and Michael on co-lead)
The Hurt
Body
Victory

I want those damn outtakes. I bet those are some of the best records

bboy87 said:

my own fantasy tracklisting

Side A

Torture
Wait
One More Chance
Tell Me I'm Not Dreamin' (Too Good To Be True)
Oh Mother (re-record it and put the brothers on background vocals)

Side B

State Of Shock
Don't Stand Another Chance (Marlon could've kept it for Victory and had he and Michael on co-lead)
The Hurt
Body
Victory

I want those damn outtakes. I bet those are some of the best records

thesexofit said:

babybugz said:

I wished they performed the victory songs on the victory tour. It still don't make no sense.

Apparantly Mike didn't want to rehearse anything new. I wonder why LOL. I really do believe Mike never wanted to do the album or tour. Still, Mike sounds great on "torture" and at least we got "tell me I'm not dreaming" live, which is also a great track that could of fitted on "Victory".

Now remember, MJ never wanted to do the Victory album in the first place, so I can understand why he refused to rehearse the songs. Mike did have good contributions to the album, but I do think a lot of the outtakes (he wrote) were way stronger than the records on the final release