Timmy84 said:

I think they would've told people they didn't sing anyway. Even in their documentary, friends of theirs said they struggled with keeping up the facade of Milli Vanilli that they'd eventually tell them anyways. And besides, after that incident where their record skipped, album sales actually INCREASED! That was the trouble for them. As that documentary stated, they were "too successful". It was gonna be stopped. Them winning that Grammy was the straw that broke the camel's back.

The Orgs biggest Milli Vanilli fan here (...regardless of who actually sang).

Adisa said:

Timmy84 said: Everybody and their mama sounded like Stevie.

It was the era that launched so-called oversinging because everyone was trying to prove their authenticity. New Jack Swing may as well had been called New Jack Stevie.

Or New Jack Gap

Charlie Wilson's wailings were an influence as well for Guy's Aaron Hall and others

thesexofit said:

armpit said:

And that girl Adele, and a ton of other artists....all the time I'm seeing people talk about how this or that musician is 'ugly' or this or that. So I really can't buy the 'you can't have success in music unless you're hot', thing.

It was abit different back in the late 80's though. There was general criticism after MTV became huge that you had to have the "MTV image" (i.e good looking and sexy) to get played. Also you had to enjoy doing music videos, which not all artists did (Bob Dylan and Bruce Springsteen spring to mind).

That was in America though. MTV Europe didn't even begin until 1987/88 and even then it was only shown very limitedly (UK didn't get it until sky came along in 1990). Frank Farian was known for letting others sing on his records, his act Boney M had Frank himself singing on hits like "Daddy cool" and "Rasputin", despite it obviously not him being on stage.

So with Milli Vanilli, like some other european acts, he got some pretty boys to act in the music videos and that was that. No big deal at the time for teenibopper acts in Europe. I dont think he or anybody knew how big they were going to be. Cheaply made videos like "Girl you know its true" were much more tailor made for the US and MTV, and not surprisenly, the duo became bigger in the US then in UK and Europe. Frank Farian struck gold and obviously there was no going back. Arista picked up the European version of the album, added some new tracks and took others away (added Diane Warrens "Blame it on the rain" for example) and then they blew up!

I dont care if they did or didn't sing, their first album and the various configurations of it was great. Even the remixes were often great (sampling "Bob George" on "Baby dont forget my number" 12 inch LOL), but MTV was criticized in the 80's for only being a platform for either talented good looking people (i.e George Michael, Michael Jackson), or simply good looking people (Sam Fox LOL),

and in that respect, Frank was smart enough to make the cheap music videos with good looking models, but I doubt he ever thought how they were going to take off, particually in the US.

Even now, what I'm saying still stands.

Adele's album didn't get released in the 1980s.

MickyDolenz said:

missfee said:

Call me silly but I still don't see why they confessed.

Rob and Fab wanted to do their own vocals on the next record and refused to mime anymore, and Frank Farian basically said "I brought you into this world, and I'll take you out!". They did release an album under their own name and appeared on the Arsenio Hall (who constantly made jokes about them before) show to promote it.

I see you are a Cosby Show fan too, that line is from the pilot, in which Heathcliff says it to Theo after bringing a report card home with D's on it.

Anyway back to Milli Vanilli, I was a big follower of their music and still have the "Girl You Know its True CD" and had posters and shit on the wall, and loved their music. I was heartbroken when they were exposed, but kind of knew already that the voice on the songs was not theirs. They appeared on a show called Sister Kate (Remember that, a sassy nun with some ghetto ass kids, including Neville the little wannabe Rasta) and their voices were stereotypical German accents like "Ve arr Meilly Venillie, ve arr fromm Germany, ya that is gut".

They would have lasted maybe an album or two, people get tired of the same music over and over, and they released like 3 different remix albums during 1990 (I know I had them all). Like Boney M before them (Produced by the same guy - Frank Farian) they would have got tired.

Also on a documentary (Behind the Music) the actual main singer was an American called Charles Shaw, who looked a lot like Carl Winslow, as you can see having that dude on the cover was not going to sell records except to the Luther Vandross market

Shango said:

Adisa said:

It was the era that launched so-called oversinging because everyone was trying to prove their authenticity. New Jack Swing may as well had been called New Jack Stevie.

Or New Jack Gap

Charlie Wilson's wailings were an influence as well for Guy's Aaron Hall and others

Charlie was one of the first graduates of Stevie Wonder University, though.

Adorecream said:

I see you are a Cosby Show fan too, that line is from the pilot, in which Heathcliff says it to Theo after bringing a report card home with D's on it.

I heard it before Cosby. I heard some of my relatives say it.

It was the nadir of the crappy 88-90 era. Hard-Dance, Hair-Metal and Dance-Pop: yuppy culture (Bonfire of Vanities, American Psycho, etc), the Stock, Aiken Waterman shit, lame drum beats, repetitive, synthesized bass lines, cheesy choruses, too much New Jack Swing, hair metal's power ballads, etc. The Milli Vanilli scandal (including the Grammy's) was just the straw which broke the camel's back...maisntream audiences (and the industry) reacted: Hair-Metal turned into Grunge/Alternative Rock/Extreme Metal, Hard-Dance into "electronica/mainstream rave", and Dance-Pop into "organic" pop/rock...

then again, thank God for 1991...

If they would have never gotten caught, then people with bad taste in music would have had even more BADD music 2 listen 2.

Frank should've just made them cartoons, like Gorillaz.

dalsh327 said:

Frank should've just made them cartoons, like Gorillaz.

Or like he did it with Boney M. , not hide it that much that he was behind it and that the singer on stage was not the singer, but lip syncing to Farian's vocals.

Frank Farian wasn't really successful with his music until he started to use other people who had the look he did not have. Boney M. was a huge success especially in Europe and would never have been if Farian would have been on the record covers and on stage and not the people he had hired for him. So it sure matters how you look.

[Edited 7/1/11 17:50pm]

Serious said:

dalsh327 said:

Frank should've just made them cartoons, like Gorillaz.

Or like he did it with Boney M. , not hide it that much that he was behind it and that the singer on stage was not the singer, but lip syncing to Farian's vocals.

Frank Farian wasn't really successful with his music until he started to use other people who had the look he did not have. Boney M. was a huge success especially in Europe and would never have been if Farian would have been on the record covers and on stage and not the people he had hired for him. So it sure matters how you look.

[Edited 7/1/11 17:50pm]

And Frank was SMART NOT TO include his mug on the cover of the Boney M records. Those records wouldn't have flown off the shelves. He should've known shit was going to go down when MV got nominated for that Grammy. But I guess he waited until the mainstream media took it out on MV because they didn't know him. What a farce. He's definitely part to blame. Sure Rob and Fabrice deserve some finger pointing but if you were told "you make a million dollars promoting this record that I made with some older singers" and you were broke, starving, trying to feed yourself, wouldn't you take it? Money can be used for so many things and unfortunately they took it as a last resort. Frank always refers MV as his "crazy idea". Well what was Boney M then? Maybe he should've put out MV in the '70s.

What's funny to me is they got 2 models to lipsync but when you see the "real" singers of Milli Vanilli it's like 5 of 'em

Those songs are still great. It's too bad the scandal shadows their legacy.

Adisa said:

Shango said:

Or New Jack Gap

Charlie Wilson's wailings were an influence as well for Guy's Aaron Hall and others

Charlie was one of the first graduates of Stevie Wonder University, though.

Good one

It's actually the first time that i see Stevie mentioned as an influence for new jack singers. I must've overlooked that info previously lol.

Timmy84 said:

Serious said:

Or like he did it with Boney M. , not hide it that much that he was behind it and that the singer on stage was not the singer, but lip syncing to Farian's vocals.

Frank Farian wasn't really successful with his music until he started to use other people who had the look he did not have. Boney M. was a huge success especially in Europe and would never have been if Farian would have been on the record covers and on stage and not the people he had hired for him. So it sure matters how you look.

[Edited 7/1/11 17:50pm]

And Frank was SMART NOT TO include his mug on the cover of the Boney M records. Those records wouldn't have flown off the shelves. He should've known shit was going to go down when MV got nominated for that Grammy. But I guess he waited until the mainstream media took it out on MV because they didn't know him. What a farce. He's definitely part to blame. Sure Rob and Fabrice deserve some finger pointing but if you were told "you make a million dollars promoting this record that I made with some older singers" and you were broke, starving, trying to feed yourself, wouldn't you take it? Money can be used for so many things and unfortunately they took it as a last resort. Frank always refers MV as his "crazy idea". Well what was Boney M then? Maybe he should've put out MV in the '70s.

I've seen quite some interviews where Farian was talking about his early days when he still relaeased music with his face on the record and how it did not exactly work. He knew exactly what he was doing .

gemari77 said:

Funny. I often think about that from time to time. Even more than that, I think of how it would have been if Autotune was readily available during that time period. Chances are, they would have sung on their record. I feel kinda bad for those guys sometimes.... Yeah, the whole thing was wrong on so many levels. But I feel there are top Pop stars today who are getting away with some of the same things. Instead of hiding behind session singers, they now hide behind pitch correction software and technology that wasn't available in the 80's. Milli Vanelli were too early.

Autotune and/or pitch control wouldn't have touched those heavy accents of theirs though, lol. I think their accents were more the issue than their ability to sing. Although clearly the producer wanted more soulful sounding vocals, which is why he went with the veteran singers.

LOVE "Blame It On The Rain" and "Girl I'm Gonna Miss You".

i remember watching an interview just b4 they got caught...... i remember thinking how the hell do they sound so good when they sing because i dont understand a word they r saying in english when they talk......

and i wasnt the only one who thought that......

i did the hair....

and if they were not caught that very day... it would have been the day after... cause it was

soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

obvious!!!!!!!!!!!!

physco185 said:

i remember watching an interview just b4 they got caught...... i remember thinking how the hell do they sound so good when they sing because i dont understand a word they r saying in english when they talk......

and i wasnt the only one who thought that......

i did the hair....

and if they were not caught that very day... it would have been the day after... cause it was

soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

obvious!!!!!!!!!!!!

After that interview, In Living Color in its first season (which I believe was in June 1990 or something like that) mocked the two because of their accents. Correction: LC debuted in April '90.

Damon Wayans (as Fabrice): "You can't be Vanilli because you're from Germany and I'm from French."

[Edited 7/3/11 11:32am]

I remember them accepting an American Music Award sounding like they did... and being like "what?!?!"

HohnerCatcher said:

I remember them accepting an American Music Award sounding like they did... and being like "what?!?!"

Me too! I was like "wow for a couple of foreign guys they sure sound different when they sing" but I think even my six-year-old self was like "oh something's up" so I wasn't actually shocked when they said "we didn't sing on the songs". I was like "I KNEW IT!"

Timmy84 said:

physco185 said:

i remember watching an interview just b4 they got caught...... i remember thinking how the hell do they sound so good when they sing because i dont understand a word they r saying in english when they talk......

and i wasnt the only one who thought that......

i did the hair....

and if they were not caught that very day... it would have been the day after... cause it was

soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

obvious!!!!!!!!!!!!

After that interview, In Living Color in its first season (which I believe was in June 1990 or something like that) mocked the two because of their accents. Correction: LC debuted in April '90.

Damon Wayans (as Fabrice): "You can't be Vanilli because you're from Germany and I'm from French."

[Edited 7/3/11 11:32am]

wow u remember heaps more than me.... but what u just said triggered a memory of the exact thing i laughted about!!!!

i'm impressed

physco185 said:

Timmy84 said:

After that interview, In Living Color in its first season (which I believe was in June 1990 or something like that) mocked the two because of their accents. Correction: LC debuted in April '90.

Damon Wayans (as Fabrice): "You can't be Vanilli because you're from Germany and I'm from French."

[Edited 7/3/11 11:32am]

wow u remember heaps more than me.... but what u just said triggered a memory of the exact thing i laughted about!!!!

i'm impressed

Some things you can never forget.

Serious said:

Timmy84 said:

And Frank was SMART NOT TO include his mug on the cover of the Boney M records. Those records wouldn't have flown off the shelves. He should've known shit was going to go down when MV got nominated for that Grammy. But I guess he waited until the mainstream media took it out on MV because they didn't know him. What a farce. He's definitely part to blame. Sure Rob and Fabrice deserve some finger pointing but if you were told "you make a million dollars promoting this record that I made with some older singers" and you were broke, starving, trying to feed yourself, wouldn't you take it? Money can be used for so many things and unfortunately they took it as a last resort. Frank always refers MV as his "crazy idea". Well what was Boney M then? Maybe he should've put out MV in the '70s.

I've seen quite some interviews where Farian was talking about his early days when he still relaeased music with his face on the record and how it did not exactly work. He knew exactly what he was doing .

Actually it was only Bobby Farrell and Maisie Williams who didn't sing on Boney M records, most of their early stuff (Up to and including Boonoonoos in 1981) was actually Liz Mitchell and Marcia Barrett singing in the studio. Okay apart from a few religious tunes, they didnt write the music and the videos were lipsynched, Liz and Marcia actually sang and had good voices, all the female voices in the songs are theirs, most Liz had lead vocals, but you can hear Marcia doing lead vocals on Belfast. Maizie was a model who didn't want to sing, but she was beautiful and definitely bopped along to the music, Bobby was from Aruba (He passed away recently) and spoke Dutch, so his command of English was probably limited. However he was an awesome dancer and that gave the group an edge, also his figure probably moved a lot of copies of their first four albums off the shelves (The first two albums showed bondage scenes).

Graycap23 said:

armpit said:

I don't know that I agree with this - there's plenty of musicians who aren't attractive or don't fit the conventional ideas of beauty, who end up with long careers and big fanbases. I think ultimately people who say otherwise just use that as an excuse for their lack of success in the field, because at the end of the day if you truly have talent and something to say and music worth listening to, you'll take off and do well, whether you're cute or not.

Missy is a great example of that.

Yeah! Of course there are plenty of 'ugly' musicians with awesome careers! But you're missing my point; they are authentic! Otherwise, they would not last for as long as they have!

We can go down the list of pop tart charters who were cute and sexy and the result of industry hype but never panned out - I'm not saying looks is the foundation of a storied or lasting music career; I'm not saying that normatively 'attractive' musicians can't have storied or lasting music careers; and I'm not saying that normatively 'ugly' musicians are the only ones with storied and lasting careers.

Those with storied or lasting musical careers, looks notwithstanding, have authentic and genuine talent. If you've a modicum of talent and you have an attractive 'look', i.e. Milli Vanilli, in our shallow society, you can fake it till you make it but I wonder how long that'll last? If Milli Vanilli never got caught, do you think they could last as long as say, a Bonnie Raitt or McCoy Tyner?

Nope.

Besides, the mastermind who put the Milli Vanilli shenanigan on its course was just playing the game. Don't hate the player,....you know the rest.

Talent, hard work, dedication, hustle, grind, luck, success, legacy, songwriting, musicianship does not care what your ass looks like. But if you put all of these things together, chances are, you'll have that niche audience that will never let you go.

Anyways, my heart has always hurt for the Milli Vanilli dude who committed suicide; I guess that is why I'm defensive about them.

The music of Milli Vanilli was damn good. I don't know why the orginal singers weren't promoted. Why get a couple of fakes? Sure those dudes were fine as hell but they could have served as back up dancers or video models or they could have received months of vocal coaching to sound at least bearable. Shit, that's what happened with Brittney right?

HotGritz said:

The music of Milli Vanilli was damn good. I don't know why the orginal singers weren't promoted. Why get a couple of fakes? Sure those dudes were fine as hell but they could have served as back up dancers or video models or they could have received months of vocal coaching to sound at least bearable. Shit, that's what happened with Brittney right?

Frank and 'em were on a fast "get money quick" scheme.

there was some promotion though, but yeah... after the rain

[Edited 7/6/11 2:05am]

^ Heeyyyy.....what was wrong with that? Great sound and a good look, excluding that Barry White lookin' dude. Damn shame. They got that Midnight Starr look.

How come no one says anything about The Supremes? Many of the songs during the "Diana Ross & The Supremes" period didn't have Mary, Flo, or Cindy singing on them. The backgrounds on some of the songs were really The Andantes. On some of The Spinners songs from the 1970's, other than whoever was doing the lead (Bobby or Phillipe), there's no male voices to be heard, and the backgrounds were sung by The Sweethearts, who were Philadelphia International's female backup group.