rialb said:

But where did "American" music come from? Europe, Asia and Africa!

Where did the English language come from? England!

There is very little in American culture that is new or completely original. There is a very good reason that America is known as the Great Melting Pot. Americans have taken various aspects from other cultures and forged them into their own style but without that foundation that comes from many other cultures there would be no "American" music.

per your request,

I never said that none of this were not true, I never talked about the formation of how American Music was created. I still don't know why people are going that deep with it or even getting that technical.

The whole point was the OP said he was talking about American Mainstream Music (what is out on US radio and major media outlets). He didn't ask where "american music" came from. And people were trying to act like me calling it "American Music" was incorrect. Then I asked what is it called and the person brought up south american, central america and all kinds of stuff and never answered the question. So I knew from there they were just trying to nit pick for an argument, so I just responded back with sarcasim and jokes. If someone tells me the correct term and I will gladly use it. But they haven't

one thing I do know about American culture that was original, was the singing style in african american churches.

TotalAlisa said:

rialb said:

But where did "American" music come from? Europe, Asia and Africa!

Where did the English language come from? England!

There is very little in American culture that is new or completely original. There is a very good reason that America is known as the Great Melting Pot. Americans have taken various aspects from other cultures and forged them into their own style but without that foundation that comes from many other cultures there would be no "American" music.

per your request,

I never said that none of this were not true, I never talked about the formation of how American Music was created. I still don't know why people are going that deep with it or even getting that technical.

The whole point was the OP said he was talking about American Mainstream Music (what is out on US radio and major media outlets). He didn't ask where "american music" came from. And people were trying to act like me calling it "American Music" was incorrect. Then I asked what is it called and the person brought up south american, central america and all kinds of stuff and never answered the question. So I knew from there they were just trying to nit pick for an argument, so I just responded back with sarcasim and jokes. If someone tells me the correct term and I will gladly use it. But they haven't

one thing I do know about American culture that was original, was the singing style in african american churches.

Really? I think the fact that you referred to is as African American is very telling.

TotalAlisa said:

the OP was talking about American Mainstream Music,

No. You decided that's what you wanted them to be talking about.

You know how fashion in America is inspired by different cultures and styles on the other side of the Atlantic or wherever? The same rings true for popular music trends in America my dears. A good example is when Latin American artists were suddenly having hits in 1999, or the token black pop/dance artist, or Madonna suddenly sporting Bindis and then for years, hip hop and r&b are sampling Bollywood and Bhangra beats or are inspired by it. That is what American music is, as someone said earlier, a melting pot. So even if you were to call African American music American, if that is your truth, that's good too, but it was not an American creation, it evolved from Africa and other influences I'm sure.

alphastreet said:

You know how fashion in America is inspired by different cultures and styles on the other side of the Atlantic or wherever? The same rings true for popular music trends in America my dears. A good example is when Latin American artists were suddenly having hits in 1999, or the token black pop/dance artist, or Madonna suddenly sporting Bindis and then for years, hip hop and r&b are sampling Bollywood and Bhangra beats or are inspired by it. That is what American music is, as someone said earlier, a melting pot. So even if you were to call African American music American, if that is your truth, that's good too, but it was not an American creation, it evolved from Africa and other influences I'm sure.

rialb said:

TotalAlisa said:

per your request,

I never said that none of this were not true, I never talked about the formation of how American Music was created. I still don't know why people are going that deep with it or even getting that technical.

The whole point was the OP said he was talking about American Mainstream Music (what is out on US radio and major media outlets). He didn't ask where "american music" came from. And people were trying to act like me calling it "American Music" was incorrect. Then I asked what is it called and the person brought up south american, central america and all kinds of stuff and never answered the question. So I knew from there they were just trying to nit pick for an argument, so I just responded back with sarcasim and jokes. If someone tells me the correct term and I will gladly use it. But they haven't

one thing I do know about American culture that was original, was the singing style in african american churches.

Really? I think the fact that you referred to is as African American is very telling.

okay then black american churches,

African American means they are decendents of africa, it does NOT mean they know anything about African culture, because almost all black americans don't know what part of africa they came from, let alone culture.

African american's had no direct contact with africa for 400 years of slavery, so how is their singing style influenced by africans???, WHEN they were stripped of their own culture, language and religion. Do you even know that???

alphabetstreet, you said you were sure, you didn't say it was a fact.

How man black/african americans who are decedents of black slaves in america do you know, that knows their original heritage.?????

So how are black americans influenced by africans when they for the most part don't know their heritge, and never been to africa.

So with that being said, if black americans didn't have any connection/knowledge to their african heritage, how are they influenced by africa????????????

Lets not try and act like American music is all sampled and inspired by other cultures. Or act As if other countries have the capabilities to create their own unique style but America can't. Thats ridiculous.

[Edited 7/1/11 4:41am]

alphastreet said:

You know how fashion in America is inspired by different cultures and styles on the other side of the Atlantic or wherever? The same rings true for popular music trends in America my dears. A good example is when Latin American artists were suddenly having hits in 1999, or the token black pop/dance artist, or Madonna suddenly sporting Bindis and then for years, hip hop and r&b are sampling Bollywood and Bhangra beats or are inspired by it. That is what American music is, as someone said earlier, a melting pot. So even if you were to call African American music American, if that is your truth, that's good too, but it was not an American creation, it evolved from Africa and other influences I'm sure.

i never said african american music, I said, their singing style in the African American church.

Actually I normally call Africn Americans black,, to differentiate them from Africans. Because black Americans are so far from the African culture.

That singing style did originate from the black american church, you have people world wide trying to sing like the old black women of the church. Its become very popular. These people don't even know where it came from, but ask Shirley Ceasar about that!

Why do you think, when most people try to copy that style it almost always seems forced, even Africans from Africa I have seen sing in that black American style and it doesn't sound the same..

I went to this Black Methodist Church,,, that was built in the mid to late 1800s (obviously updated), and the black slaves built the church on top a grave yard, that used to be a market where they sold slaves. Anyways, this church had hymn books that were old as dirt, an was STILL singing hymns that were written in the 1700s- late 1800s. And the actual music was played on an organ. (and this was like 2007 when i went, they didn't change up the music at all the kept the same traditional hymns and old organ).

Anyways these slaves had no acces to africa, all they knew was what was taught to them from their slave masters.

Again I say,,, African Americans were stripped of their African culture so how can they be influenced by it????

You guys act like blacks came to america and were able to preserve their african heritage, if that were true, things would be a LOT different for black americans.

Cerebus said:

TotalAlisa said:

the OP was talking about American Mainstream Music,

No. You decided that's what you wanted them to be talking about.

I asked the OP and he said: YES he was talking about American Mainstream Music.

TotalAlisa said:

rialb said:

Really? I think the fact that you referred to is as African American is very telling.

okay then black american churches,

African American means they are decendents of africa, it does NOT mean they know anything about African culture, because almost all black americans don't know what part of africa they came from, let alone culture.

African american's had no direct contact with africa for 400 years of slavery, so how is their singing style influenced by africans???, WHEN they were stripped of their own culture, language and religion. Do you even know that???

alphabetstreet, you said you were sure, you didn't say it was a fact.

How man black/african americans who are decedents of black slaves in america do you know, that knows their original heritage.?????

So how are black americans influenced by africans when they for the most part don't know their heritge, and never been to africa.

So with that being said, if black americans didn't have any connection/knowledge to their african heritage, how are they influenced by africa????????????

Lets not try and act like American music is all sampled and inspired by other cultures. Or act As if other countries have the capabilities to create their own unique style but America can't. Thats ridiculous.

[Edited 7/1/11 4:41am]

Um, yes it is, at least to a very large degree. It is it fair to say that American writers/singers/musicians took existing forms of music and put their own stamp and a different spin on it but it's ridiculous to claim that they created that music from nothing. Language is arguably the most basic part of any culture, where did the language that Americans speak originate? Where did the instruments that Americans use to create music originate? Where did the language of music that is still used today originate? The answer to those questions is: not America!

Lastly, what is American culture if not a mixture of many other cultures? Do you honestly believe that America would look anything like it does today without the influence of the many varied cultures that immigrated there over the last 500 years?

TotalAlisa said:

alphastreet said:

You know how fashion in America is inspired by different cultures and styles on the other side of the Atlantic or wherever? The same rings true for popular music trends in America my dears. A good example is when Latin American artists were suddenly having hits in 1999, or the token black pop/dance artist, or Madonna suddenly sporting Bindis and then for years, hip hop and r&b are sampling Bollywood and Bhangra beats or are inspired by it. That is what American music is, as someone said earlier, a melting pot. So even if you were to call African American music American, if that is your truth, that's good too, but it was not an American creation, it evolved from Africa and other influences I'm sure.

i never said african american music, I said, their singing style in the African American church.

Actually I normally call Africn Americans black,, to differentiate them from Africans. Because black Americans are so far from the African culture.

That singing style did originate from the black american church, you have people world wide trying to sing like the old black women of the church. Its become very popular. These people don't even know where it came from, but ask Shirley Ceasar about that!

Why do you think, when most people try to copy that style it almost always seems forced, even Africans from Africa I have seen sing in that black American style and it doesn't sound the same..

I went to this Black Methodist Church,,, that was built in the mid to late 1800s (obviously updated), and the black slaves built the church on top a grave yard, that used to be a market where they sold slaves. Anyways, this church had hymn books that were old as dirt, an was STILL singing hymns that were written in the 1700s- late 1800s. And the actual music was played on an organ. (and this was like 2007 when i went, they didn't change up the music at all the kept the same traditional hymns and old organ).

Anyways these slaves had no acces to africa, all they knew was what was taught to them from their slave masters.

Again I say,,, African Americans were stripped of their African culture so how can they be influenced by it????

You guys act like blacks came to america and were able to preserve their african heritage, if that were true, things would be a LOT different for black americans.

Where do you think those hymns were written and in which country was the organ created?

rialb said:

TotalAlisa said:

okay then black american churches,

African American means they are decendents of africa, it does NOT mean they know anything about African culture, because almost all black americans don't know what part of africa they came from, let alone culture.

African american's had no direct contact with africa for 400 years of slavery, so how is their singing style influenced by africans???, WHEN they were stripped of their own culture, language and religion. Do you even know that???

alphabetstreet, you said you were sure, you didn't say it was a fact.

How man black/african americans who are decedents of black slaves in america do you know, that knows their original heritage.?????

So how are black americans influenced by africans when they for the most part don't know their heritge, and never been to africa.

So with that being said, if black americans didn't have any connection/knowledge to their african heritage, how are they influenced by africa????????????

Lets not try and act like American music is all sampled and inspired by other cultures. Or act As if other countries have the capabilities to create their own unique style but America can't. Thats ridiculous.

[Edited 7/1/11 4:41am]

Um, yes it is, at least to a very large degree. It is it fair to say that American writers/singers/musicians took existing forms of music and put their own stamp and a different spin on it but it's ridiculous to claim that they created that music from nothing. Language is arguably the most basic part of any culture, where did the language that Americans speak originate? Where did the instruments that Americans use to create music originate? Where did the language of music that is still used today originate? The answer to those questions is: not America!

Lastly, what is American culture if not a mixture of many other cultures? Do you honestly believe that America would look anything like it does today without the influence of the many varied cultures that immigrated there over the last 500 years?

then to some degree, music in every country is influenced from other cultures. So then everyone sampled.

Im not speaking about language, Im speaking about Actual Music. America is capable of being originial, just like any country is capable of starting a new genre of music.

Just because you use the same instruments or language does not mean its going to be the same genre of music. Who claimed they created music from nothing????

The thing is you can take whatever instrument you want, but its what you do with it to make it your OWN sound/genre of music. Just how each culture, create and continue to change their sounds.

Over the past 500 years

400 years ago, it was basically white settlers, black slaves, and native americans.

American Today is a mix of different races, but really Americans do have a culture, and within that culture there are subcultures.

rialb said:

TotalAlisa said:

i never said african american music, I said, their singing style in the African American church.

Actually I normally call Africn Americans black,, to differentiate them from Africans. Because black Americans are so far from the African culture.

That singing style did originate from the black american church, you have people world wide trying to sing like the old black women of the church. Its become very popular. These people don't even know where it came from, but ask Shirley Ceasar about that!

Why do you think, when most people try to copy that style it almost always seems forced, even Africans from Africa I have seen sing in that black American style and it doesn't sound the same..

I went to this Black Methodist Church,,, that was built in the mid to late 1800s (obviously updated), and the black slaves built the church on top a grave yard, that used to be a market where they sold slaves. Anyways, this church had hymn books that were old as dirt, an was STILL singing hymns that were written in the 1700s- late 1800s. And the actual music was played on an organ. (and this was like 2007 when i went, they didn't change up the music at all the kept the same traditional hymns and old organ).

Anyways these slaves had no acces to africa, all they knew was what was taught to them from their slave masters.

Again I say,,, African Americans were stripped of their African culture so how can they be influenced by it????

You guys act like blacks came to america and were able to preserve their african heritage, if that were true, things would be a LOT different for black americans.

Where do you think those hymns were written and in which country was the organ created?

hymns written in America (i mentioned that church, because it shows that blacks did not know about their african culture)

But im not even speaking about music, i was speaking about the singing style of black americans. At one point whites did not like that style of singing, so they would re-record the song with a white artist so it would be radio friendly.

So now if someone is stripped of their original culture, ostracized, because when those slaves built that church it was because they weren't allowed to attend white churchs, then thats when people CREATE their own sub-cultures and traditions, which led to them creating their own style of singing. Now like i said before, that church still sang the old hymns and used the organ, but they changed how they sang the songs.

That was just one black church, and I do believe they were trying to keep traditions because that particular church had so much history behind it, and Methodist churchs IMO are boring. But outside that, black churches have created their own sub-culture and style of singing.

NOW everyone is trying to sing like that and all over the world and in so many countries.

[Edited 7/1/11 6:09am]

some strange part of me wants to post a single song that will change your mind, but eye no

that cannot be "the case".

If music has died then so far it's been one hell of a funeral.

shonenjoe said:

some strange part of me wants to post a single song that will change your mind, but eye no

that cannot be "the case".

If music has died then so far it's been one hell of a funeral.

I freakin' love that. Clever

[Edited 7/4/11 7:08am]

on the radio music... well good music is dead and goooooooooooooooooooonnnnnnnnnnnnnnnne

but lucky 4 me i have heaps of CD's.....