LittleBLUECorvette said:

silverchild said:

Gloria Gaynor? I believe she had a Behind the Music special. I would love to see The Five Stairsteps and The Undisputed Truth...

Colonel Abrams and Lillo Thomas deserve a mention too.

Orange Juice Jones and Johnny Kemp too.

silverchild said:

LittleBLUECorvette said:

Colonel Abrams and Lillo Thomas deserve a mention too.

Yep. This may be out of the loop alittle, but what about Angela Bofill, Loose Ends and Michael Henderson?

RIGHT!

if the drama and pain is part of their story then it needs to be told. the drama and personal issues are the main reason most of these people are unsung in the first place.

Ottensen said:

TD3 said:

I don't know how, the Sylvers men were never that short after 11 years of age. After Shalamar's Unsung, I stopped watching the show all together.

I'll try to check this out.

As I've mentioned before about Unsung, I'm not interested in watching the trainwreck. There's a fine line between telling someones story and exploiting their pain and misfortune for entertain-ment sake; I want to know about the music and the process.

Wishful thinking, I'm sure.

I watched the ones they did on Denise Williams and Teena Marie just this weekend. I was pleased with the fact that they really concentrated more on the individual (artistic choices) the ladies made rather than any kind of "down and out" sensationalism. Although they did touch lightly on Teena's lean years when she chose to be a stay at home mom, it pretty much ended with her being painted successfully, and they didn't re-edit the ending (yet) to approach the topic of her death. I wonder if it might just be that some artists are just such tragic figures (like we see in the Debarge and Donnie Hathaway episodes) that it feels practically impossible to tell their stories without going down the whole' and they had inner demons' route? After all, their musical processes, output, and creative end product are usually so incredibly affected by their state of being. It almost seems that in some cases, not addressing their difficulties of some of these artists would have an elephant in the room kind of vibe to it and make their episodes feel kinda tepid.

I think they should do a new Teena Marie one. Its not fair to show the old one without addressing her tragic death. The one they show is somewhat good. But they left out a lot of the details of her brutal fight with Berry Gordy & Motown. It was way more bad for her there then they let on.

Teena Marie was living in a one bedroom apartment in Inglewood during her suppose glory years at Motown. That is not the lifestyle of a R&B superstar with several hit albums on a successful label should be living. She sholud have been in a mansion. Not making $200 a week!

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

Ottensen said:

I watched the ones they did on Denise Williams and Teena Marie just this weekend. I was pleased with the fact that they really concentrated more on the individual (artistic choices) the ladies made rather than any kind of "down and out" sensationalism. Although they did touch lightly on Teena's lean years when she chose to be a stay at home mom, it pretty much ended with her being painted successfully, and they didn't re-edit the ending (yet) to approach the topic of her death. I wonder if it might just be that some artists are just such tragic figures (like we see in the Debarge and Donnie Hathaway episodes) that it feels practically impossible to tell their stories without going down the whole' and they had inner demons' route? After all, their musical processes, output, and creative end product are usually so incredibly affected by their state of being. It almost seems that in some cases, not addressing their difficulties of some of these artists would have an elephant in the room kind of vibe to it and make their episodes feel kinda tepid.

I think they should do a new Teena Marie one. Its not fair to show the old one without addressing her tragic death. The one they show is somewhat good. But they left out a lot of the details of her brutal fight with Berry Gordy & Motown. It was way more bad for her there then they let on.

Teena Marie was living in a one bedroom apartment in Inglewood during her suppose glory years at Motown. That is not the lifestyle of a R&B superstar with several hit albums on a successful label should be living. She sholud have been in a mansion. Not making $200 a week!

Are you saying that Teena's contract paid her a salary of $200 per week and not a percentage of record sales??

prodigalfan said:

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

I think they should do a new Teena Marie one. Its not fair to show the old one without addressing her tragic death. The one they show is somewhat good. But they left out a lot of the details of her brutal fight with Berry Gordy & Motown. It was way more bad for her there then they let on.

Teena Marie was living in a one bedroom apartment in Inglewood during her suppose glory years at Motown. That is not the lifestyle of a R&B superstar with several hit albums on a successful label should be living. She sholud have been in a mansion. Not making $200 a week!

Are you saying that Teena's contract paid her a salary of $200 per week and not a percentage of record sales??

i just took an entertainment law class and we talked about music royalties and such. as a composer, she should have had royalties from the sales and licensing of her work and as a performer from airplay of her songs.

something was really amiss at motown.

kibbles said:

prodigalfan said:

Are you saying that Teena's contract paid her a salary of $200 per week and not a percentage of record sales??

i just took an entertainment law class and we talked about music royalties and such. as a composer, she should have had royalties from the sales and licensing of her work and as a performer from airplay of her songs.

something was really amiss at motown.

Yes! Motown has a history of not paying there artist & lying about actual sales, They did that to Staci Lattisaw & Johnny Gil, they had a number 1 song together. But Motown lied to them about the actual sales. Teena took them to court and won & they named a law in her name The Brockert law so they can't do that to any other artist anymore. She won millions in the lawsuit.

TD3 said:

[img:$uid]http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j220/gowes/TheSylvers-2-1.jpg[/img:$uid]

From The New Sylvers Messege Board.

Angie Sylvers has posted the she and members of the group have completed a piece for TV ONE's 'Unsung Series', it's suppose to air this fall. It's my understanding neither Foster or Ricky Sylvers didn't participated in the show.

===================================================

[Edited 6/14/11 20:52pm]

I'm embarassed to say the only song I ever heard from these guys before this thread, was "Boogie Fever".

The second dude from the left is hot.

After listening to that "Storybook Girl" song though, the impression I get is that they were pretty much a J5 rip-off band.

armpit said:

TD3 said:

[img:$uid]http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j220/gowes/TheSylvers-2-1.jpg[/img:$uid]

From The New Sylvers Messege Board.

Angie Sylvers has posted the she and members of the group have completed a piece for TV ONE's 'Unsung Series', it's suppose to air this fall. It's my understanding neither Foster or Ricky Sylvers didn't participated in the show.

===================================================

[Edited 6/14/11 20:52pm]

I'm embarassed to say the only song I ever heard from these guys before this thread, was "Boogie Fever".

The second dude from the left is hot.

After listening to that "Storybook Girl" song though, the impression I get is that they were pretty much a J5 rip-off band.

That's Ricky Sylvers... Joseph Richard Sylvers.

The comparisons between the Jackson 5 and the Sylvers has little merit. The only similarity either group shared was, being black, singing R&B/Soul music, and they both came from large families. Musically speaking they were polar opposites, with the Slyvers sound closer to the Fight Dimension than anything the Jackson5 recorded.

I like both groups very much and I've always thought is was kinda silly to separate Michael from the Jackson 5; he didn't start out as a solo artist. All of the Jackson's should be respected for their contribution towards the group for that period of time. (IMO)

================================

[Edited 6/21/11 17:21pm]

kibbles said:

prodigalfan said:

Are you saying that Teena's contract paid her a salary of $200 per week and not a percentage of record sales??

i just took an entertainment law class and we talked about music royalties and such. as a composer, she should have had royalties from the sales and licensing of her work and as a performer from airplay of her songs.

something was really amiss at motown.

right. I always thought her beef was not getting music that was ready to go, released... thereby forcing her to make it on the weekly stipend. I didn't know she wasn't getting her cut in record sales....

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

kibbles said:

i just took an entertainment law class and we talked about music royalties and such. as a composer, she should have had royalties from the sales and licensing of her work and as a performer from airplay of her songs.

something was really amiss at motown.

Yes! Motown has a history of not paying there artist & lying about actual sales, They did that to Staci Lattisaw & Johnny Gil, they had a number 1 song together. But Motown lied to them about the actual sales. Teena took them to court and won & they named a law in her name The Brockert law so they can't do that to any other artist anymore. She won millions in the lawsuit.

I thought the only thing Teena won in that lawsuit was the right to leave and join Epic? It was a historical win for artist but I don't think she got paid for the suit. I could be wrong though...

silverchild said:

Timmy84 said:

WHO?!

Gloria Gaynor? I believe she had a Behind the Music special. I would love to see The Five Stairsteps and The Undisputed Truth...

I can't see the Undisputed Truth getting one but New Birth sounds more reasonable.

LittleBLUECorvette said:

Timmy84 said:

Yeah Gloria had a BTM special. I remember it but I think she seems bitter about something idk... I like to see on the Five Stairsteps though. The Undisputed Truth would be a good one. Joe Harris (the founder and lead singer) was on Rose Royce's episode...

They need to do one on F-N BloodStone, Billy Stewart and my mans JOE TEX!!

for sure

lowkey said:

if the drama and pain is part of their story then it needs to be told. the drama and personal issues are the main reason most of these people are unsung in the first place.

sosgemini said:

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

Yes! Motown has a history of not paying there artist & lying about actual sales, They did that to Staci Lattisaw & Johnny Gil, they had a number 1 song together. But Motown lied to them about the actual sales. Teena took them to court and won & they named a law in her name The Brockert law so they can't do that to any other artist anymore. She won millions in the lawsuit.

I thought the only thing Teena won in that lawsuit was the right to leave and join Epic? It was a historical win for artist but I don't think she got paid for the suit. I could be wrong though...

No that was pretty much it. But Teena never got her rightful money from either Motown or Epic.

Timmy84 said:

sosgemini said:

I thought the only thing Teena won in that lawsuit was the right to leave and join Epic? It was a historical win for artist but I don't think she got paid for the suit. I could be wrong though...

No that was pretty much it. But Teena never got her rightful money from either Motown or Epic.

She sued the company in a landmark court case in 1982 for nonpayment of royalties. The lawsuit, and countersuit from Motown, took about 2 years and cost Teena nearly $1 million in legal fees. Teena did not want to record for them anymore due to her bad recording contract (negotiated while she was still a minor, and signed without being allowed benefit of legal counsel) and not getting paid; Motown claimed she owed them one more album. But success was Teena's when Motown backed down and settled with her out of court, knowing that she'd won the case. Teena signed to Epic records where she continued to record (and have plenty of chart and critical success) until she left that company after releasing Ivory in '90.

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

Timmy84 said:

No that was pretty much it. But Teena never got her rightful money from either Motown or Epic.

She sued the company in a landmark court case in 1982 for nonpayment of royalties. The lawsuit, and countersuit from Motown, took about 2 years and cost Teena nearly $1 million in legal fees. Teena did not want to record for them anymore due to her bad recording contract (negotiated while she was still a minor, and signed without being allowed benefit of legal counsel) and not getting paid; Motown claimed she owed them one more album. But success was Teena's when Motown backed down and settled with her out of court, knowing that she'd won the case. Teena signed to Epic records where she continued to record (and have plenty of chart and critical success) until she left that company after releasing Ivory in '90.

I remember when Mary Wells was the first of the Motown acts to sue the label for not being paid because she also signed with the company when she was a minor (17; two years younger than the age Teena was when signed with Motown). I think she got about $250,000 from the settlement and then signed a $500,000 deal with 20th Century Fox. Motown is still alleged to have told radio stations to NOT play any Mary Wells records.

^^A settlement doesn't mean she got any unpaid royalties, nor recieved any afterwards.

MickyDolenz said:

^^A settlement doesn't mean she got any unpaid royalties, nor recieved any afterwards.

From what I heard, neither Teena nor Mary got paid anyways. Mary died in poverty. Teena's money came from touring anyways and songwriting royalties so she was able to live well until she died.

MickyDolenz said:

^^A settlement doesn't mean she got any unpaid royalties, nor recieved any afterwards.

But she did get a settlement, not just released from her contract. Which is what I was trying to prove & did. A hefty one

^ What no one tells is what they do with that money. Teena pretty much explained that most of that money was used to make her label and trying to publish her independent album, which was hard to do for her. Of course in Unsung, even that settlement didn't stop her from having to sell items just so she could feed her baby.

Timmy84 said:

^ What no one tells is what they do with that money. Teena pretty much explained that most of that money was used to make her label and trying to publish her independent album, which was hard to do for her. Of course in Unsung, even that settlement didn't stop her from having to sell items just so she could feed her baby.

U right! its very sad, Teena did struggle for a while. Even years after she left Motown & Epic. She tried to go independent & it wiped her bank account out. Plus she had some major health issues. She fell off stage twice, Fell off a horse & hurt her back. Then while sleeping in a bed in a hotel in 2004, a picture fell on her head and knocked her unconscious. Which started her having major seizures which lead to her untimely death. I know this thread is not about Teena. But I am a fan of hers & her life was unsung.

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

MickyDolenz said:

^^A settlement doesn't mean she got any unpaid royalties, nor recieved any afterwards.

But she did get a settlement, not just released from her contract. Which is what I was trying to prove & did. A hefty one

I'm confused, I recently read the court documents on this case and I don't recall it having anything to do with current royalities. It was all about releasing her from her contract:

In 1982, Teena Marie got into a heated legal battle with Motown Records over her contract and disagreements about releasing her new material.^[14] The lawsuit resulted in "The Brockert Initiative", which made it illegal for a record company to keep an artist under contract without releasing new material for that artist. In such instances, artists are able to sign and release with another label instead of being held back by an unsupportive one. Teena Marie commented on the law in an LA Times article, saying, "It wasn't something I set out to do. I just wanted to get away from Motown and have a good life. But it helped a lot of people, like Luther Vandross and the Mary Jane Girls, and a lot of different artists, to be able to get out of their contracts."^[15] She left Motown as the label's most successful white solo act.

Do share more about the settlement and back royalty part, if you can.

sosgemini said:

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

I'm confused, I recently read the court documents on this case and I don't recall it having anything to do with current royalities. It was all about releasing her from her contract:

In 1982, Teena Marie got into a heated legal battle with Motown Records over her contract and disagreements about releasing her new material.^[14] The lawsuit resulted in "The Brockert Initiative", which made it illegal for a record company to keep an artist under contract without releasing new material for that artist. In such instances, artists are able to sign and release with another label instead of being held back by an unsupportive one. Teena Marie commented on the law in an LA Times article, saying, "It wasn't something I set out to do. I just wanted to get away from Motown and have a good life. But it helped a lot of people, like Luther Vandross and the Mary Jane Girls, and a lot of different artists, to be able to get out of their contracts."^[15] She left Motown as the label's most successful white solo act.

Do share more about the settlement and back royalty part, if you can.

Talking about Teena makes me depress. I'm still not over her death....sorry

Timmy84 said:

^ What no one tells is what they do with that money. Teena pretty much explained that most of that money was used to make her label and trying to publish her independent album, which was hard to do for her. Of course in Unsung, even that settlement didn't stop her from having to sell items just so she could feed her baby.

Gosh, I don't remember that coming out. I saw the Unsung episode when it first came out. They rebroadcast the episode a few weeks before she died that I did not watch because it was a repeat and then they played it again during New Years marathon but I couldn't bear to watch it.

Did they add or change something in that episode about Teena that makes it different from the original broadcast?

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

sosgemini said:

Talking about Teena makes me depress. I'm still not over her death....sorry

me too.

prodigalfan said:

Timmy84 said:

^ What no one tells is what they do with that money. Teena pretty much explained that most of that money was used to make her label and trying to publish her independent album, which was hard to do for her. Of course in Unsung, even that settlement didn't stop her from having to sell items just so she could feed her baby.

Gosh, I don't remember that coming out. I saw the Unsung episode when it first came out. They rebroadcast the episode a few weeks before she died that I did not watch because it was a repeat and then they played it again during New Years marathon but I couldn't bear to watch it.

Did they add or change something in that episode about Teena that makes it different from the original broadcast?

I didn't think they changed much from the original broadcast.

Timmy84 said:

prodigalfan said:

Gosh, I don't remember that coming out. I saw the Unsung episode when it first came out. They rebroadcast the episode a few weeks before she died that I did not watch because it was a repeat and then they played it again during New Years marathon but I couldn't bear to watch it.

Did they add or change something in that episode about Teena that makes it different from the original broadcast?

I didn't think they changed much from the original broadcast.

prodigalfan said:

Timmy84 said:

I didn't think they changed much from the original broadcast.

okay, thanks. I guess the next time they air it, I will have to rewatch it. I must have missed some things.

Her episode is online somewhere, you just have to find it. Shouldn't be hard though.

TD3 said:

armpit said:

I'm embarassed to say the only song I ever heard from these guys before this thread, was "Boogie Fever".

The second dude from the left is hot.

After listening to that "Storybook Girl" song though, the impression I get is that they were pretty much a J5 rip-off band.

That's Ricky Sylvers... Joseph Richard Sylvers.

The comparisons between the Jackson 5 and the Sylvers has little merit. The only similarity either group shared was, being black, singing R&B/Soul music, and they both came from large families. Musically speaking they were polar opposites, with the Slyvers sound closer to the Fight Dimension than anything the Jackson5 recorded.

I like both groups very much and I've always thought is was kinda silly to separate Michael from the Jackson 5; he didn't start out as a solo artist. All of the Jackson's should be respected for their contribution towards the group for that period of time. (IMO)

================================

[Edited 6/21/11 17:21pm]

...Well, I know that's what people are saying - but come on now, that "Storybook Girl" sounds exactly like something the Jackson 5 would've done. If someone had posted it up with no group name or pics attached to it, I would've immediately assumed it was an unreleased J5 track.

Record companies are notorious for trying to find acts exactly like other music stars anyway - they see that someone is a hit and there's a working formula, they try to milk it to death. And this group did show up after the Jackson 5, so...no offense, but I stand by what I said.