Is this album underappreciated or what? I popped it in the CD player this morning and it's great. The record between Instant Vintage (modern R&B) and The Way I See It (Classic Soul.) The record was kind of a mix of both, especially "I Know Shuggie Otis."

PS, who is the chick that sings back up for him? I likes her!

yep. people dont appreciate this cd. chick like you is my cut

This is definitely an underappreciated record. So many great gems on this record such as "I Want You Back", "Rifle Love" and "I Know Shuggie Otis".

I Know Shuggie Otis was my shit.

I also dug Grown Folks. I like the bass licks he laid down

on some of the grooves. I don't know if this album got overlooked

since he released this on his own label.

phunkdaddy said:

I Know Shuggie Otis was my shit.

I also dug Grown Folks. I like the bass licks he laid down

on some of the grooves. I don't know if this album got overlooked

since he released this on his own label.

Oh it got overlooked and fast. I don't remember it getting promoted or much radio play much either. They played the hell outta this album on internet radio though. What's so funny is that the live album, All Hits At The House of Blues got more promotion than Ray Ray, with TV ads and the works and that was an independent release as well.

This dude is starting to get on my nerves. He's one of the baddest producers (not beat maker, but as in pilotting an album) and writers in the game, yet he churns out some of the most uninspiring and boring shite.

His new one...I heard a few cuts - boring.

Reform 3Ts, do House of Music redux and let's keep it moving.

Detroit Girl

Rifle Love

Grown Folks

Ray Ray Theme

Live Without You

Chic Like You

Those were the best tunes imo

I actually liked the overall vibe of "As Ray Ray" MUCH more than "Instant Vintage" (and they're both gold compared to the lame obsession with remaking 50s Blues and Motown he has now) but I think the biggest problem with it is that it's an inconsistant record. There's actually more songs I skip vs. songs I love. Like most of his dissapointing solo career, the music itself will be great while the song is searching for a hook that sticks...

That said, I love the two collabs with Teedra Moses:

"Chic"

"I Want You Back"

And:

"Ray Ray Theme" w/Joi

"I Know Shuggie Otis" (in total agreement with all of y'all on this one - it's the jam)

"Rifle Love" w/TTT & Lucy Pearl

[Edited 5/21/11 13:01pm]

soul4thought said:

I actually liked the overall vibe of "As Ray Ray" MUCH more than "Instant Vintage" but I think the biggest problem with it is that it's an inconsistant record. There's actually more songs I skip vs. songs I love. Like most of his solo career, the music itself will be great while the song is searching for a hook that sticks...

That said, I love the two collabs with Teedra Moses:

"Chic"

"I Want You Back"

And:

"Ray Ray Theme" w/Joi

"I Know Shuggie Otis" (in total agreement with all of y'all on this one)

"Rifle Love"

[Edited 5/21/11 12:57pm]

Yes. Raphael was definitely going for the concept route on this release, but it didn't really stick together well. I don't think Ray Ray tops Instant Vintage for the simple reason that some songs feel unfinished and undeveloped. Instant Vintage felt like the second coming of Ray, while this was just full of itself. Solid record though, no doubt.

The chick that's singing with him is Teedra Moses. Her album "Complex Simplicity" got overlooked.

silverchild said:

Yes. Raphael was definitely going for the concept route on this release, but it didn't really stick together well. I don't think Ray Ray tops Instant Vintage for the simple reason that some songs feel unfinished and undeveloped. Instant Vintage felt like the second coming of Ray, while this was just full of itself. Solid record though, no doubt.

Totally agreed on the concept. If the "Ray Ray" personality was supposed to be reflected in the songs, it doesn't gel very well...and if the album was supposed to be funk and/or 70s inspired, that's not consistant either. For every song that fits, it's followed up by what seems like a leftover from Instant Vintage. The concept seems thrown together, really, and it works against the album.

You wouldn't believe how disspointed I was in Instant Vintage. I felt it had exactly ONE song with a memorable melody: "Be Here." If the songs on As Ray Ray are undeveloped (which I agree that they are), then the songs on Instant Vintage just meander and leave little impact, IMO

To be real, I think both albums have deep flaws and Saadiq has yet to come out with an album that can even touch the coattail of his work with TTT. He's probably at the top of my list of Dissapointing Artists Who Went Solo.

soul4thought said:

silverchild said:

Yes. Raphael was definitely going for the concept route on this release, but it didn't really stick together well. I don't think Ray Ray tops Instant Vintage for the simple reason that some songs feel unfinished and undeveloped. Instant Vintage felt like the second coming of Ray, while this was just full of itself. Solid record though, no doubt.

Totally agreed on the concept. If the "Ray Ray" personality was supposed to be reflected in the songs, it doesn't gel very well...and if the album was supposed to be funk and/or 70s inspired, that's not consistant either. For every song that fits, it's followed up by what seems like a leftover from Instant Vintage. The concept seems thrown together, really, and it works against the album.

You wouldn't believe how disspointed I was in Instant Vintage. I felt it had exactly ONE song with a memorable melody: "Be Here." If the songs on As Ray Ray are undeveloped (which I agree that they are), then the songs on Instant Vintage just meander and leave little impact, IMO

To be real, I think both albums have deep flaws and Saadiq has yet to come out with an album that can even touch the coattail of his work with TTT. He's probably at the top of my list of Dissapointing Artists Who Went Solo.

Oh, Instant Vintage definitely wasn't a perfect album; could've done without those corny interludes, but nearly every song on that album was a gem to me. True, he hasn't done a completely relevatory record such his run with Tony! Toni! Tone!, but I admire his solo work. That Lucy Pearl album was a nice one too, but that was his weirdest period, IMO!

Lyrically, I will admit he has been a little hit-and-miss, but he has been pretty prolific with his solo and production work. His work on Joss Stone's Introducting... was close to top notch for a modern release. The Way I See It and his newest, Stone Rollin' are great, but Instant Vintage will be his greatest accomplishment as a solo artist. The Tony! Toni! Tone! output is in a class of its own and he can't come close to that output.

[Edited 5/21/11 17:16pm]

[Edited 5/21/11 17:20pm]

silverchild said:

soul4thought said:

Totally agreed on the concept. If the "Ray Ray" personality was supposed to be reflected in the songs, it doesn't gel very well...and if the album was supposed to be funk and/or 70s inspired, that's not consistant either. For every song that fits, it's followed up by what seems like a leftover from Instant Vintage. The concept seems thrown together, really, and it works against the album.

You wouldn't believe how disspointed I was in Instant Vintage. I felt it had exactly ONE song with a memorable melody: "Be Here." If the songs on As Ray Ray are undeveloped (which I agree that they are), then the songs on Instant Vintage just meander and leave little impact, IMO

To be real, I think both albums have deep flaws and Saadiq has yet to come out with an album that can even touch the coattail of his work with TTT. He's probably at the top of my list of Dissapointing Artists Who Went Solo.

Oh, Instant Vintage definitely wasn't a perfect album; could've done without those corny interludes, but nearly every song on that album was a gem to me. True, he hasn't done a completely relevatory record such his run with Tony! Toni! Tone!, but I admire his solo work. That Lucy Pearl album was a nice one too, but that was his weirdest period, IMO!

Lyrically, I will admit he has been a little hit-and-miss, but he has been pretty prolific with his solo and production work. His work on Joss Stone's Introducting... was close to top notch for a modern release. The Way I See It and his newest, Stone Rollin' are great, but Instant Vintage will be his greatest accomplishment as a solo artist. The Tony! Toni! Tone! output is in a class of its own and he can't come close to that output.

Totally agree. While I do love "Instant Vintage", it no where near holds a candle to anything that he did with 3T. And it took a while for "Instant Vintage" to grow on me, at first listen I hated the album. Slowly but surely I came to learn he has a lot of good cuts on the album sans the unnecessary interludes. "Ray, Ray" was just okay to me. I loved the tracks featuring Teedra Moses (and yes her album "Complex Simplicity" is a great listen) and one other track but that was it. I like "Stone Rollin'" over "The Way I See It", but ironically, I'd take the Lucy Pearl album over ALL his solo efforts. I could and still can listen to that album from beginning to end.

I think Raphael is at his strongest in collaborations versus his solo work. It's a shame he and Dwayne and Timothy can't come to common ground to churn out another 3T album. I truly believe with everything that another 3T album would be stronger and better than Raphael giving us yet another "it's pretty good but just okay" solo effort. IMO.

[Edited 5/22/11 14:26pm]

Underrated release. Straight up bbq music if you let it play without analyzing it imo. Just yesterday morning, Save Us came on and I had no idea who it was, liked it, was intrigued, went to check th eipod and lo and behold its Ralphy baby.

duccichucka said:

This dude is starting to get on my nerves. He's one of the baddest producers (not beat maker, but as in pilotting an album) and writers in the game, yet he churns out some of the most uninspiring and boring shite.

His new one...I heard a few cuts - boring.

Reform 3Ts, do House of Music redux and let's keep it moving.

I couldn't digest it either. I only dig Good Man and the title cut.

Most of it seems to be 50's black Rockabilly.

I wish he would do more of this showcasing his skills as a bass man.

Saadiq's music, unlike many of this era, is not cookie cutter and microwavable. It's not for the moment and then sounds wack yrs later. All of his solo records have memorable cuts and a few...what was he thinking cuts....but what great artists albums doesn't have those.

Ray Ray as an album was overlooked. Instant had videos....Ray Ray didn't...his only release not too. I'm glad I was able to catch him on tour in support of the album . Concept was pretty cool. 2-3 of the tunes were "what was he thinkin'" tunes but the remainder of the album was dope. I know the show I saw,which was sold out, was a few weeks after it's release and people were singing right along with him on the new songs as well as the older ones. As a bass player I may be biased but..the songs sounded great live.

Each Saadiq solo effort is different than the previous. I would argue the his solo outputs(including Lucy Pearl) are easily in the top 5 releases of the year they were released. Dudes catalog of work over the last 9 yrs is quite impressive.

Oh and for the record TTT, outta 4 albums, didn't zenith until Sons of Soul. People on here sing praises of "House of Music" . That was their most non-cohesive effort of the four:-o . Reports have it that they were feuding amongest themselves, songs were recorded by each other in seperate studios,overdubs done seperately with instructions, if any,left. Not a real group effort. No wonder that was the last record by them.

But as I said up top.....Ray Ray was/is a dope album.

JQuad said:

Saadiq's music, unlike many of this era, is not cookie cutter and microwavable. It's not for the moment and then sounds wack yrs later. All of his solo records have memorable cuts and a few...what was he thinking cuts....but what great artists albums doesn't have those.

Ray Ray as an album was overlooked. Instant had videos....Ray Ray didn't...his only release not too. I'm glad I was able to catch him on tour in support of the album . Concept was pretty cool. 2-3 of the tunes were "what was he thinkin'" tunes but the remainder of the album was dope. I know the show I saw,which was sold out, was a few weeks after it's release and people were singing right along with him on the new songs as well as the older ones. As a bass player I may be biased but..the songs sounded great live.

Each Saadiq solo effort is different than the previous. I would argue the his solo outputs(including Lucy Pearl) are easily in the top 5 releases of the year they were released. Dudes catalog of work over the last 9 yrs is quite impressive.

Oh and for the record TTT, outta 4 albums, didn't zenith until Sons of Soul. People on here sing praises of "House of Music" . That was their most non-cohesive effort of the four:-o . Reports have it that they were feuding amongest themselves, songs were recorded by each other in seperate studios,overdubs done seperately with instructions, if any,left. Not a real group effort. No wonder that was the last record by them.

But as I said up top.....Ray Ray was/is a dope album.

I totally get most of what you are saying here. You could tell that all three were on separate vibes during the recording of this album. And it was very obvious that recording was done separately too. Nevertheless, it's still a good album.

I disagree when you say they didn't "zenith" until Sons of Soul....they made quite a loud noise with "The Revival" album....it just got even more louder when "Sons of Soul" came out.

JQuad said:

Saadiq's music, unlike many of this era, is not cookie cutter and microwavable. It's not for the moment and then sounds wack yrs later. All of his solo records have memorable cuts and a few...what was he thinking cuts....but what great artists albums doesn't have those.

Ray Ray as an album was overlooked. Instant had videos....Ray Ray didn't...his only release not too. I'm glad I was able to catch him on tour in support of the album . Concept was pretty cool. 2-3 of the tunes were "what was he thinkin'" tunes but the remainder of the album was dope. I know the show I saw,which was sold out, was a few weeks after it's release and people were singing right along with him on the new songs as well as the older ones. As a bass player I may be biased but..the songs sounded great live.

Each Saadiq solo effort is different than the previous. I would argue the his solo outputs(including Lucy Pearl) are easily in the top 5 releases of the year they were released. Dudes catalog of work over the last 9 yrs is quite impressive.

Oh and for the record TTT, outta 4 albums, didn't zenith until Sons of Soul. People on here sing praises of "House of Music" . That was their most non-cohesive effort of the four:-o . Reports have it that they were feuding amongest themselves, songs were recorded by each other in seperate studios,overdubs done seperately with instructions, if any,left. Not a real group effort. No wonder that was the last record by them.

But as I said up top.....Ray Ray was/is a dope album.

I respect your opinion on House of Music and yes some of the songs were recorded

seperately and there was tension in the group but that doesn't mean that the album

wasn't a masterpiece. Maybe your taste are a little different. Sons of Soul was a good

effort my only problem is some of the songs were heavily sampled like the lead single.

While If I Had No Loot was not a bad song it just seemed very odd and awkward with

the Eddie Floyd sample and Ice Cube sample going on at the same time as well as

some of the other tracks. Earlier TTT albums before House of Music went after the New

Jack crowd on some of their songs which is fine because they could always balance it out

with a slow jam. House of Music imo just exemplified what the group was capable of along

and that was showcasing good music without having to sell out to the current flavor. There

were no Wild Child, Let Me Know, Last Summer, Fall in Love, or the EWF like Lovin You on

earlier albums. They challenged themselves and it showed on what i consider their masterpiece.

House of Music wasn't all about club jams to appeal to the Mary J/Method Man audience outside

of Let's Get Down which was very refreshing to my ears.

One thing to consider TTT and Saadiq always release/d material that was/is left of what was/is popular at that particular time. So I can agree that "House of Music" was a growth from "Sons of Soul" ...just as "Sons" was growth from "Revival"...and "Revival" was a growth from "Who?"

I just personally enjoyed the cohesive work on "Sons" better.

This new album is slowly becoming an instant classic for me and I have been following him for years. Most of the stuff on my I-pod is a mix of various stuff from him but this new album Stone Rollin' seems to be the most complete.

I just read that Mick Jagger called him before the Grammys last year and asked him to perform with him.

This guy should open up for Prince, but this new record is better than anything Prince has put out since the Gold Experience - so perhaps that would not be a good match.

LayDownMisty said:

This new album is slowly becoming an instant classic for me and I have been following him for years. Most of the stuff on my I-pod is a mix of various stuff from him but this new album Stone Rollin' seems to be the most complete.

I just read that Mick Jagger called him before the Grammys last year and asked him to perform with him.

This guy should open up for Prince, but this new record is better than anything Prince has put out since the Gold Experience - so perhaps that would not be a good match.

Oh you know Prince would shut that down....

I could never really get into this cd............but I kept it around.

Maybe I need 2 give it another spin?

Graycap23 said:

I could never really get into this cd............but I kept it around.

Maybe I need 2 give it another spin?

I agree. This cd did nothing for me though I still own it.

His new one is cool too, but I cant listen to it anymore. Played it twice and I dont think I can play it again and enjoy it. He needs to get off the 50's/60's/70s album vibe and make something more modern (with elements of old soul, which I know he can't escape in his production style).

Stone Rollin' is his highest debut of all his solos coming in at number 14.

LittleBLUECorvette said:

Stone Rollin' is his highest debut of all his solos coming in at number 14.

True. Out of all his solo efforts, I see "Stone Rollin'" promotion everywhere.

missfee said:

LittleBLUECorvette said:

Stone Rollin' is his highest debut of all his solos coming in at number 14.

True. Out of all his solo efforts, I see "Stone Rollin'" promotion everywhere.

Yep. The only downside of Stone Rollin' is that with the exception of probably "Good Man" and the title track "Stone Rollin'", I don't see this getting any massive radio response. But Ray Ray is definitely promoting the heck out of this album.

silverchild said:

LittleBLUECorvette said:

silverchild said:

Yep. The only downside of Stone Rollin' is that with the exception of probably "Good Man" and the title track "Stone Rollin'", I don't see this getting any massive radio response. But Ray Ray is definitely promoting the heck out of this album.

I can see "Just Don't" gettin play.

Nah...maybe if they make a radio edit, but it wouldn't convey the same urgency or ambition as the album cut.

paisleypark4 said:

Detroit Girl

Rifle Love

Grown Folks

Ray Ray Theme

Live Without You

Chic Like You

Those were the best tunes imo

Rifle Love is my TUNE