L4OATheOriginal said:

Timmy84 said:

"Showtime" was still raw because judges didn't critique you: the audience did. That's really WHAT should matter. Believe me if someone like, Sanjaya, or Justin Guarnini had come on the Apollo stage, there wouldn't be no Paula Abdul to "groom" them with comments about how nice they look, no Randy Jackson to tell them, "you need to work on your steelo, dawg", no crying girl in the middle of the audience, no cards saying WE LOVE YOU XXX. No you'll have an audience that will BOO you off the stage, you hear this big siren, and this dude comes out in a clown outfit dancing your untalented ass off the stage. With American Bandstand, they mix the style and substance so if you wasn't shit they let you know it too.

American Idol ass-kisses you until you do something that pisses them off.

yes they would boo people ..but they also booed luther 3 times ..just saying

They booed a lot of talented people actually. So OF COURSE.

rialb said:

lastdecember said:

Well cred is cred, there is a niche for writing a "pop song" or a rock song, Richards first 7 top 10 hits only 1 was a ballad, so he is more of a rock writer, its easy to dismiss as nothing, but we cant praise one writer who im sorry, but im a Prince fan, and the guy has written his fair share of corn ball songs and many albums of material that DONT hold up, mainly Emancipation which i worshipped and now can only play about 4 songs because of its really bad production and lyrics. But again these are two guys that are doing different things, i feel Richard is more of a writer because he has written for more varied people and different types of songs, NO ONE unless TOLD knew he wrote "Dance With my Father", Prince to me is not "varied" enough in his work with others, this is why all of his proteges for the most part are forgettable, because its just another Prince, its like when we complain about a "beatmaker" using the same beats over and over, Prince has had a fair share of this himself, and no artist he has produced has ever really had an identity outside of HIM for the most part. So we can go back and forth because the two are not doing the same stuff, but to dismiss "ballads" and "pop songs" is foolish and seems to be what i hear alot of BUT i dont see anyone knowing how to craft good pop songs/ballads, Richard and maybe Lionel Richie come to mind, but thats about it.

Well, as far as outside productions I think it is fair to say that Prince doesn't play well with others. When Prince "produces" a song for another artist you usually get a Prince song with someone else's vocals dubbed onto it. Still, I would argue that if you just look at the songs themselves that there is an awful lot of diversity in the songs he has given to other artists.

I have to plead ignorance regarding Richard Marx' songs for others but a quick glance at his wikipedia page shows that the songs are often produced by someone other than him. That might partially account for the greater diversity as far as the sound of the songs is concerned. I would also guess that Richard is much better about serving the wants and needs of the people he works with. I could be wrong but I can see him sitting down with somebody and asking what they like and don't like about a song and working together to try and improve it. With Prince I am guessing that doesn't happen.

I really don't think I can find common ground with someone who can only listen to four songs from Emancipation. That one is in my top five!

Actually from what i have read Richard picks the artists for the most part, though some have just hooked up with one of his songs that was out there and not being done by him, which, has happend with many songwriters. Luther was his best friend that is how he hooked up with him and the mutual passing of his father and luthers led to the song. As for alot of the country artists Richard has worked with keith urban,chely wright, alison krauss,rhonda vincent, they were all his choice to work with, he frequents Nashville cause i hear he thinks its just a breath of fresh air to sometimes record in other places besides where he resides or an LA or NY studio. So i would say about 85-90% are people he wanted to work with the other 10%, like an Nsync, just got the song.

As for Prince he has better diversity when he doesnt even work with the person per say, when its just a one-off song, and not a protege type thing, Prince does not work well with others which i feel has benefits and drawbacks like anything else. Its just where he takes over someones record that it becomes very stifling, i feel, its really just a new "prince" record and again why his proteges have never really had a shelf life so to speak for the most part. I mean even though Carmen Electra is still in the public eye, she doesnt have a catalog of albums, her singing dream, last about 6 months.

As for Emancipation i dont hate the record, i played the thing to death, got people who didnt even like Prince into that album, but to me i cant go back to it anymore, and when i do its a few songs here and there, thats what i was talking about, its long lasting feel didnt last. And to me it all comes down to the very slick plastic production used on alot of the tracks.