HotGritz said:

Timmy84 said:

^ Now see this is where I have to RESPECTFULLY disagree. There was always rumors that Whitney was like the way she was when she was splitting time between East Orange and Newark with relatives. Whitney knows about the streets. I don't think she adapted this attitude when she met and fell for Bobby. I honestly don't. Plus she was doing drugs and alcohol as recreationally as Mary J. Blige did when she grew up in Yonkers.

Isn't that bolded part just a rumor put out by the anti-Whitney crowd though? I've heard about her cussing and drinking days during her sophmore album but she was never what she became when she hooked up with Bobby. Drinking in and of itself is no big deal. Hell, even smoking weed is no big deal but all that other stuff.

Didn't she even admit to Oprah that she started using the coke because Bobby was doing it or had introduced her to it? Remember, this is a woman who was a fashion model and aspiring actress before becoming a singer. I'm not saying she was goody two-shoes but there is no evidence to suggest that she was the full out crack ho that she became once Bobby entered her life. I just don't believe she was doing 8 balls before she met Bobby. Heck, even Mary J started in on drugs to self-medicate and deal with depression over various things that we don't need to get into here.

IDK if it was or not. And no Whitney said she was doing it BEFORE she met Bobby. Whitney did rock cocaine. Bobby did heroin and rock cocaine. I doubt they even did drugs together, it seems like Bobby and Whitney had their own devices.

HotGritz said:

I remember that reality show. They were both slaves. A sad thing to watch. Two incredibly dysfunctional people with a bunch of kids in tow. I've lost track of how many baby mommas Bobby has.

Ain't that hard. It's four.

I forgot the name of the woman who birthed his eldest, Landon (the one who probably looks like Bobby's brother Tommy, remember him? ). But Kim Ward gave birth to his two other kids, LaPrincia and Bobby, Jr., Whitney of course with Bobbi Kristina, and his fiancee/manager Alicia Etheridge with his youngest child (so far).

^ Actually you're kind of right....Whit did say she had tried cocaine prior to being with Bobby. However, her drug use worsened with him. IMHO Bobby just made a somewhat damaged person more fragile and breakable. She seemed to have suffered professionally around the late 90s/early 00s. That's when we first started hearing of her drug problems and by this time she'd already been married to Bobby for what, 8 or 9 years? So if she was always a druggie then why didn't she slip up long before then? Why did she fall on hard times only after being married to Bobby for so many years? I can't absolve this man of any responsibility for how Whit turned out.

Timmy84 said:

HotGritz said:

I remember that reality show. They were both slaves. A sad thing to watch. Two incredibly dysfunctional people with a bunch of kids in tow. I've lost track of how many baby mommas Bobby has.

Ain't that hard. It's four.

I forgot the name of the woman who birthed his eldest, Landon (the one who probably looks like Bobby's brother Tommy, remember him? ). But Kim Ward gave birth to his two other kids, LaPrincia and Bobby, Jr., Whitney of course with Bobbi Kristina, and his fiancee/manager Alicia Etheridge with his youngest child (so far).

Those women and kids I've heard of but wasn't he in court a few other times for knocking up some random hoodrats? I could have sworn he claimed 4 kids but had 2 potential outside babies. I mean I'm not going to knock him if he is caring for them and being a part of their lives. People can't wear condoms all the time.

robertlove said:

musicjunky318 said:

Oh Whitney noooo.

I thought she was over this.

Everybody pray.

It doesn't say she is doing drugs, seems to me it's more an ex-addict threatment.....which is a good thing!

I pray that is not a typo. Only Whitney Houston could be in threatment.

Did you see the way the New Edition guys were talking about her- I think it was on Behind the Music, but they were all saying how Whitney was so ghetto.

HotGritz said:

^ Actually you're kind of right....Whit did say she had tried cocaine prior to being with Bobby. However, her drug use worsened with him. IMHO Bobby just made a somewhat damaged person more fragile and breakable. She seemed to have suffered professionally around the late 90s/early 00s. That's when we first started hearing of her drug problems and by this time she'd already been married to Bobby for what, 8 or 9 years? So if she was always a druggie then why didn't she slip up long before then? Why did she fall on hard times only after being married to Bobby for so many years? I can't absolve this man of any responsibility for how Whit turned out.

That's because she thought she could CONTAIN her drug use. She started taking it heavily, she says, because she wanted to "have fun". I'm guessing it started AFTER The Bodyguard came out and it gradually worsened. It was a gradual fallout but it started only in spurts. Bobby was a recreational user too when he started doing drugs (he began smoking weed prior to him departing New Edition in 1985). For the both of them, they both lived the life of sex, drugs and rock & roll before they met. I don't think the addictions didn't set in for them until around 1995, 1996.

HotGritz said:

I'm sure many people never thought Whitney was some holy Mary type but most probably didn't think she was some gutterbut hoodrat either. To this day, I believe Bobby took a decent woman and brought out the worst in her. Crack and freebasing were not in her future else she would have gone that route wayyyy before Bobby came along as she achieved major success prior to becoming involved with him. Ole dude was smoking and drinking it up before and after Whitney and the only thing that stopped him was going to jail and public embarassment plus the loss of his money in the divorce.

Bobby may not have corrupted Whitney but he definitely encouraged her to be less than her best.

It does seem fairly well established that Whitney was making her own choices, and is not unlikely to be the source of some of Bobby's woes. But the thing that I think happened was not so much that Bobby showed up and into her life, but that Robyn left. I think Robyn, regardless of whatever rumored lover situation you may be endorsing or not, kept the lids on the craziest and most self-indulgent pots in that hot ass kitchen.

suga10 said:

Did you see the way the New Edition guys were talking about her- I think it was on Behind the Music, but they were all saying how Whitney was so ghetto.

Yeah I remembered that. I gotta watch that again. That was actually a good documentary on "Bad Boy" Bobby Brown. I was surprised. He definitely was a better interview than he was during the New Edition BTM. You could tell he was intoxicated during that one.

Whitney's vocal decline probably was around the time when the drugs use got really out of control. She was still okay in 1998, and then afterwards, things changed.

allsmutaside said:

HotGritz said:

I'm sure many people never thought Whitney was some holy Mary type but most probably didn't think she was some gutterbut hoodrat either. To this day, I believe Bobby took a decent woman and brought out the worst in her. Crack and freebasing were not in her future else she would have gone that route wayyyy before Bobby came along as she achieved major success prior to becoming involved with him. Ole dude was smoking and drinking it up before and after Whitney and the only thing that stopped him was going to jail and public embarassment plus the loss of his money in the divorce.

Bobby may not have corrupted Whitney but he definitely encouraged her to be less than her best.

It does seem fairly well established that Whitney was making her own choices, and is not unlikely to be the source of some of Bobby's woes. But the thing that I think happened was not so much that Bobby showed up and into her life, but that Robyn left. I think Robyn, regardless of whatever rumored lover situation you may be endorsing or not, kept the lids on the craziest and most self-indulgent pots in that hot ass kitchen.

You're right. Robyn was that BEST FRIEND that someone like Whitney could count on. When she left in 2002, that's when things got crazy.

@ Allsmutaside - I agree. We all need people in our lives that will tell us the truth - no matter how painful. I believe Whitney lost that when she lost her friendship with Robyn.

suga10 said:

Whitney's vocal decline probably was around the time when the drugs use got really out of control. She was still okay in 1998, and then afterwards, things changed.

Up until 2001, Whitney was still able to be a captivating performer at times. It was around Divas Live 2002 when she showed up as a guest with Mary J. Blige when she did "Rainy Dayz" that I started to see cracks. She kept hoarsing throughout that performance. Mary screamed in a better pitch than Whitney did. Then when Whitney and Bobby performed together the following year, it was just hoarse all around. Compare her Divas Live '99 performance to her Divas Live '03 performance, the contrasts are hard to ignore. She briefly came back in 2004 at the World Music Awards only to slip again. I almost cried when she sang at the Turin Olympics in 2006. There was an audio of her singing "One Moment in Time" and it was like a different person singing. Hard to believe the singer on there was Whitney Houston.

[Edited 5/9/11 16:35pm]

suga10 said:

Did you see the way the New Edition guys were talking about her- I think it was on Behind the Music, but they were all saying how Whitney was so ghetto.

Andy, did you catch this one? Whitney asked Bobby to marry her? Don't hold back my little sugar smack...

Timmy84 said:

allsmutaside said:

It does seem fairly well established that Whitney was making her own choices, and is not unlikely to be the source of some of Bobby's woes. But the thing that I think happened was not so much that Bobby showed up and into her life, but that Robyn left. I think Robyn, regardless of whatever rumored lover situation you may be endorsing or not, kept the lids on the craziest and most self-indulgent pots in that hot ass kitchen.

You're right. Robyn was that BEST FRIEND that someone like Whitney could count on. When she left in 2002, that's when things got crazy.

I agree with you both on the importance of Robyn in Whit's life. I wonder if she had stuck around...would things be different or rather better?

Timmy84 said:

^ Now see this is where I have to RESPECTFULLY disagree. There was always rumors that Whitney was like the way she was when she was splitting time between East Orange and Newark with relatives. Whitney knows about the streets. I don't think she adapted this attitude when she met and fell for Bobby. I honestly don't. Plus she was doing drugs and alcohol as recreationally as Mary J. Blige did when she grew up in Yonkers.

Yeah Bobby seems to get all the blame he’s no saint but she’s not either, I like Bobby and Whitney the same. A Lady I know was telling me about Whitney drugs days and this was way before bobby.

babybugz said:

Timmy84 said:

^ Now see this is where I have to RESPECTFULLY disagree. There was always rumors that Whitney was like the way she was when she was splitting time between East Orange and Newark with relatives. Whitney knows about the streets. I don't think she adapted this attitude when she met and fell for Bobby. I honestly don't. Plus she was doing drugs and alcohol as recreationally as Mary J. Blige did when she grew up in Yonkers.

Yeah Bobby seems to get all the blame he’s no saint but she’s not either, I like Bobby and Whitney the same. A Lady I know was telling me about Whitney drugs days and this was way before bobby.

Yeah plus Bobby and Whitney were TOO similar. Both were raised from the ghetto. Labels always make an artist different than what they really are. That's what happened with Whitney. Even now the media still wanna play "pin the tail on Bobby Brown but we can't because he's not to blame this time". They think they slick.

Timmy84 said:

babybugz said:

Yeah Bobby seems to get all the blame he’s no saint but she’s not either, I like Bobby and Whitney the same. A Lady I know was telling me about Whitney drugs days and this was way before bobby.

Yeah plus Bobby and Whitney were TOO similar. Both were raised from the ghetto. Labels always make an artist different than what they really are. That's what happened with Whitney. Even now the media still wanna play "pin the tail on Bobby Brown but we can't because he's not to blame this time". They think they slick.

Wasn't Whitney raised in a middle class neighborhood in West Orange, NJ ? She was born in the projects but not raised in the projects. Family moved after the Newark riots. Plus she spent a lot of time in the church so as to stay out of trouble.

Interesting seeing that she just appeared with Prince in LA last week!

Good luck to her....

HotGritz said:

Timmy84 said:

Yeah plus Bobby and Whitney were TOO similar. Both were raised from the ghetto. Labels always make an artist different than what they really are. That's what happened with Whitney. Even now the media still wanna play "pin the tail on Bobby Brown but we can't because he's not to blame this time". They think they slick.

Wasn't Whitney raised in a middle class neighborhood in West Orange, NJ ? She was born in the projects but not raised in the projects. Family moved after the Newark riots. Plus she spent a lot of time in the church so as to stay out of trouble.

Yeah but Whitney still visited relatives in Newark so she wasn't Miss Goody Two Shoes. Plus she used to physically fight with both of her brothers, Gary and Michael, and often hung around them when she wasn't at school. They would all visit relatives in Newark. I imagine she tried drugs and alcohol in her late teens though, that would be around the time she started modeling and singing background with her mother. Plus I think it was EAST Orange, not West Orange...

[Edited 5/9/11 16:47pm]

Timmy84 said:

HotGritz said:

Wasn't Whitney raised in a middle class neighborhood in West Orange, NJ ? She was born in the projects but not raised in the projects. Family moved after the Newark riots. Plus she spent a lot of time in the church so as to stay out of trouble.

Yeah but Whitney still visited relatives in Newark so she wasn't Miss Goody Two Shoes. Plus she used to physically fight with both of her brothers, Gary and Michael, and often hung around them when she wasn't at school. They would all visit relatives in Newark. I imagine she tried drugs and alcohol in her late teens though, that would be around the time she started modeling and singing background with her mother. Plus I think it was EAST Orange, not West Orange...

[Edited 5/9/11 16:47pm]

Ok. I was beginning to think everything I've read and learned about this woman was a lie. I was ready to throw in the towel and call her out to be another milli vanilli.

HotGritz said:

Timmy84 said:

Yeah but Whitney still visited relatives in Newark so she wasn't Miss Goody Two Shoes. Plus she used to physically fight with both of her brothers, Gary and Michael, and often hung around them when she wasn't at school. They would all visit relatives in Newark. I imagine she tried drugs and alcohol in her late teens though, that would be around the time she started modeling and singing background with her mother. Plus I think it was EAST Orange, not West Orange...

[Edited 5/9/11 16:47pm]

Ok. I was beginning to think everything I've read and learned about this woman was a lie. I was ready to throw in the towel and call her out to be another milli vanilli.

It's true she moved to a middle class neighborhood and was brought up in church but there was always that other side. Ain't like you're wrong but there's more to Whitney's story. Plus we gotta remember her mother was no slouch, this was CISSY HOUSTON and her cousin was DIONNE WARWICK so she was already exposed to show business and its trappings. I imagine she saw a lot of crazy shit hanging out with Dionne.

Still the greatest famous female singer I've ever heard.

Get well and get back in shape Whitney.

HotGritz said:

Timmy84 said:

Yeah plus Bobby and Whitney were TOO similar. Both were raised from the ghetto. Labels always make an artist different than what they really are. That's what happened with Whitney. Even now the media still wanna play "pin the tail on Bobby Brown but we can't because he's not to blame this time". They think they slick.

Wasn't Whitney raised in a middle class neighborhood in West Orange, NJ ? She was born in the projects but not raised in the projects. Family moved after the Newark riots. Plus she spent a lot of time in the church so as to stay out of trouble.

That doesn't stop a person from being G.H.E.T.T.O

@Timmy84 - I'm not sure Whitney started doing drugs because of visiting relatives in Newark.

You may not believe this but I was born and raised in Newark and have never done drugs or smoked. Believe me. Could I have? Of course. But this Newark girl chose not to.

If doing drugs is something someone wants to do, guess what? No matter where they're from or where they are - they will find a way to do them. Trust.

babybugz said:

HotGritz said:

Wasn't Whitney raised in a middle class neighborhood in West Orange, NJ ? She was born in the projects but not raised in the projects. Family moved after the Newark riots. Plus she spent a lot of time in the church so as to stay out of trouble.

That doesn't stop a person from being G.H.E.T.T.O

Yanno?! Like I said, she split time between East Orange and Newark. I doubt when she said that line "if I was still living in Newark, I'd meet you outside" was something she made up. She was DEAD serious.

Shaolin325 said:

@Timmy84 - I'm not sure Whitney started doing drugs because of visiting relatives in Newark.

You may not believe this but I was born and raised in Newark and have never done drugs or smoked. Believe me. Could I have? Of course. But this Newark girl chose not to.

If doing drugs is something someone wants to do, guess what? No matter where they're from or where they are - they will find a way to do them. Trust.

Yeah I'm not saying that though. I know it appears I might be but knowing Whitney's family, they might've done some stuff that we don't know about and the stories of Whitney and her brothers getting into activities have been out here and there. So let it be known I'm not saying that she did them because she was in Newark but it depends on who she was hanging out with.

Timmy84 said:

babybugz said:

That doesn't stop a person from being G.H.E.T.T.O

Yanno?! Like I said, she split time between East Orange and Newark. I doubt when she said that line "if I was still living in Newark, I'd meet you outside" was something she made up. She was DEAD serious.

All you have to do is watch being bobby brown to get your answer people.

babybugz said:

Timmy84 said:

Yanno?! Like I said, she split time between East Orange and Newark. I doubt when she said that line "if I was still living in Newark, I'd meet you outside" was something she made up. She was DEAD serious.

All you have to do is watch being bobby brown to get your answer people.

People swore that was "an act". That was NOT an act.

allsmutaside said:

suga10 said:

Did you see the way the New Edition guys were talking about her- I think it was on Behind the Music, but they were all saying how Whitney was so ghetto.

Andy, did you catch this one? Whitney asked Bobby to marry her? Don't hold back my little sugar smack...

That's because the night she met him, she had been booed off the "Soul Train Music Awards" because a lot of folks didn't think she was "black" enough. With Bobby being loved at the time with a funky jam like "My Prerogative" during an era which she had already influenced so many R&B artists for the weakest and worst, Bobby and his jams was the "blackest" thing in the room that night. She figured she'd try to prove everyone wrong by getting with him.

But see, there was this one man that just loved her and thought she was the most wonderful woman in the world. He would have been perfect for her and would have taken her away from all the corruptness and wickedness that us Americans posses. If she wanted to be only one of many women like she was when she was with Bobby, she could have been the same with this man also because he had three wives. But she chose Bobby instead and the poor man went so damn crazy he started attacking America. Poor Osama. She broke his heart and he went fucking crazy.