Timmy84 said:

I think as artists, they're UNDERRATED with their recording material. Patti does put on a show - I've seen footage of her dancing (not just rolling on the ground and kicking shoes off) and joking with the audience and shit. She's a Philly chick so she lets it all out. Chaka is Chi-Town cool though.

True. Patti takes it to church, shoes off and all. Some folks can't relate to that type of singing, but when she gets "the feeling" she's not ashamed to show it. Now one person I can't take is Fantasia, because she just goes damn crazy, I would not want to be anywhere in front of Fantasia when her ass catches the holy ghost, because she might TKO or body slam your ass when she gets "that feeling". Now, when she calms down, Fantasia can sing a pretty good song. I actually enjoyed her first album. Now getting to Chaka, to me, Chaka really doesn't have that scream thing going on like Patti, she's much more calm. But hold up now. When I was at one of Prince's shows at MSG in NYC in December, there was an icon, that got on stage and took the mic, I had no idea who it was, but she was screaming like she was yelling to Jesus in church and took me there for a minute.Who was it? Cindi Lauper...yes indeed, my girl can scream like Patti, and could give you the holy ghost chills if she wants to. We need to do a thread on singers that scream sing like the holy ghost jumped inside them...no kidding..seriously, because we can name quite a few from the past to current.

[Edited 5/15/11 11:21am]

gunner82 said:

cbarnes3121 said:

i think they both underrated they both great singers with amazing talents

I actually see what you mean when you say "underrated" [from a POP stand point, & I think we know why]. But I still think they both over sing & are pretty annoying imo...

I would tend to "overrate" a lesser singer who could never take it to chu'ch even if they wanted to.

LayDownMisty said:

here is my opinion (after all, that is what kind of thread it is)

after watching Chaka perform at 3121 Vegas, she did not sing..........she yelled

she also had 3 great back up singers that sung louder than she did

now, maybe she is older now and can't sing like she used to but I was not impressed at all and actually waited outside the venue until she was done yelling into the mic

here is a question though.......which one wrote more songs? I mean, we all know who wrote "Feel 4 U"

no doubt they are legends but I don't feel like I respect that kind of music enough to know if they are overrated

I do know that if you take a look at the first 4 or 5 pages in this forum, you will see what kind of music is more popular here and for me....it may as well be like walking into a country music forum

that being said, if you go into a country music forum and start a thread 'More overrated: Mel Tillis or Boxcar Willie" you might make some folks angry

and I have seen more racist bullshit here on the org than any other forum - and it is usually against white people

kinda funny that you are black and people thought you were white just because you started this topic

actually, it is kinda sad and pathetic............but hey, this place has more MJ fans than Prince fans so what does that tell you?

You know what? Regardless to how "wrong" I am, I'm glad I started this thread. Hadn't experienced racism on this site yet until starting this one. I actually thought a site like Prince.org would be more open....

gunner82 said:

LayDownMisty said:

here is my opinion (after all, that is what kind of thread it is)

after watching Chaka perform at 3121 Vegas, she did not sing..........she yelled

she also had 3 great back up singers that sung louder than she did

now, maybe she is older now and can't sing like she used to but I was not impressed at all and actually waited outside the venue until she was done yelling into the mic

here is a question though.......which one wrote more songs? I mean, we all know who wrote "Feel 4 U"

no doubt they are legends but I don't feel like I respect that kind of music enough to know if they are overrated

I do know that if you take a look at the first 4 or 5 pages in this forum, you will see what kind of music is more popular here and for me....it may as well be like walking into a country music forum

that being said, if you go into a country music forum and start a thread 'More overrated: Mel Tillis or Boxcar Willie" you might make some folks angry

and I have seen more racist bullshit here on the org than any other forum - and it is usually against white people

kinda funny that you are black and people thought you were white just because you started this topic

actually, it is kinda sad and pathetic............but hey, this place has more MJ fans than Prince fans so what does that tell you?

You know what? Regardless to how "wrong" I am, I'm glad I started this thread. Hadn't experienced racism on this site yet until starting this one. I actually thought a site like Prince.org would be more open....

oh, you are not wrong

but your thread just attracted some idiots

i try not to let them bother me but it just adds to the stale factor in this place

good thing Prince is touring bcuz otherwise I don't come here

LayDownMisty said:

gunner82 said:

You know what? Regardless to how "wrong" I am, I'm glad I started this thread. Hadn't experienced racism on this site yet until starting this one. I actually thought a site like Prince.org would be more open....

oh, you are not wrong

but your thread just attracted some idiots

i try not to let them bother me but it just adds to the stale factor in this place

good thing Prince is touring bcuz otherwise I don't come here

laurarichardson said:

gunner82 said:

Guess what? Stupid, I AM BLACK!

Turn in your black card today!!!! Because you come off as someone who may be lost.

LayDownMisty said:

after watching Chaka perform at 3121 Vegas, she did not sing..........she yelled

she also had 3 great back up singers that sung louder than she did

now, maybe she is older now and can't sing like she used to but I was not impressed at all and actually waited outside the venue until she was done yelling into the mic

Chaka can be very lazy and unpredictable as a live performer. Sometimes when she is not in the best of voice or she forgets the lyrics to the song (which she does often), she'll scream in order to make up for what she's lacking and the audience falls for it most of the time. This has been happening a lot over the past 10 years.

Personally, I have never attended one of her concerts and witnessed her doing this and I've seen her a good half-dozen times live. Whenever I've paid money to see her, she gave 100%. However, I have heard countless stories and seen footage where she was not on top of her game. When Chaka sings live, you simply never know what you are going to get. Again, this is another reason why Patti has been way more popular in the black community than Chaka has b/c Patti always gives 100% on stage.

gunner82 said:

You know what? Regardless to how "wrong" I am, I'm glad I started this thread. Hadn't experienced racism on this site yet until starting this one. I actually thought a site like Prince.org would be more open....

Trust me, I don't care what messageboard you are on, when you start a Chaka vs. Patti thread, you are simply asking for trouble. Our discussion has been tame compared to a lot of discussions I've seen on other boards over the years.

LayDownMisty said:

gunner82 said:

You know what? Regardless to how "wrong" I am, I'm glad I started this thread. Hadn't experienced racism on this site yet until starting this one. I actually thought a site like Prince.org would be more open....

oh, you are not wrong

but your thread just attracted some idiots

i try not to let them bother me but it just adds to the stale factor in this place

good thing Prince is touring bcuz otherwise I don't come here

Which raises the questions about some of the comments you've posted on quite a few threads on this site.

gunner82 said:

LayDownMisty said:

here is my opinion (after all, that is what kind of thread it is)

after watching Chaka perform at 3121 Vegas, she did not sing..........she yelled

she also had 3 great back up singers that sung louder than she did

now, maybe she is older now and can't sing like she used to but I was not impressed at all and actually waited outside the venue until she was done yelling into the mic

here is a question though.......which one wrote more songs? I mean, we all know who wrote "Feel 4 U"

no doubt they are legends but I don't feel like I respect that kind of music enough to know if they are overrated

I do know that if you take a look at the first 4 or 5 pages in this forum, you will see what kind of music is more popular here and for me....it may as well be like walking into a country music forum

that being said, if you go into a country music forum and start a thread 'More overrated: Mel Tillis or Boxcar Willie" you might make some folks angry

and I have seen more racist bullshit here on the org than any other forum - and it is usually against white people

kinda funny that you are black and people thought you were white just because you started this topic

actually, it is kinda sad and pathetic............but hey, this place has more MJ fans than Prince fans so what does that tell you?

You know what? Regardless to how "wrong" I am, I'm glad I started this thread. Hadn't experienced racism on this site yet until starting this one. I actually thought a site like Prince.org would be more open....

That's because you haven't been here long enough to experience it, but yes in some of the other forums, from time-to-time you will find some comments/assumptions made by some orgers, that are racially offensive towards members of various groups, and not just towards, one specific group, as some would falsely like you to believe, so please don't fall for that nonsense.

Gunner2, I'll just say this, to many, Patti is an icon, and sings in a style not embraced or understood by many, so always expect that you will get flack about it no matter what website/messageboard you're on when criticizing her scream-type singing when she goes there, so-to-speak. Patti just has that deep, gospel, church vibe, that comes out in her songs, and she feels her songs in her soul, and doesn't hold back that feeling, and why should she really? I can understand a lot of people not liking that type of singing but truth be told, there's a lot of gospel singers that sing that way. If you don't like that type of singing, it's all good, because Patti has a plethora of fans, and one less won't take away her talent or gift. I know quite a few Black-Americans that don't favor that type scream-type singing either, regardless of the racial background of the singers, so no biggy. There's types of music I can't stand either, especially country music. Can't stand it. I find it boring and depressing to say the least. So you see people have their different tastes in music, doesn't matter who you are. Hope this helps.

[Edited 5/16/11 8:38am]

2elijah said:

gunner82 said:

You know what? Regardless to how "wrong" I am, I'm glad I started this thread. Hadn't experienced racism on this site yet until starting this one. I actually thought a site like Prince.org would be more open....

That's because you haven't been here long enough to experience it, but yes in some of the other forums, from time-to-time you will find some comments/assumptions made by some orgers, that are racially offensive towards members of various groups, and not just towards, one specific group, as some would falsely like you to believe, so please don't fall for that nonsense.

Gunner2, I'll just say this, to many, Patti is an icon, and sings in a style not embraced or understood by many, so always expect that you will get flack about it no matter what website/messageboard you're on when criticizing her scream-type singing when she goes there, so-to-speak. Patti just has that deep, gospel, church vibe, that comes out in her songs, and she feels her songs in her soul, and doesn't hold back that feeling, and why should she really? I can understand a lot of people not liking that type of singing but truth be told, there's a lot of gospel singers that sing that way. If you don't like that type of singing, it's all good, because Patti has a plethora of fans, and one less won't take away her talent or gift. I know quite a few Black-Americans that don't favor that type scream-type singing either, regardless of the racial background of the singers, so no biggy. There's types of music I can't stand either, especially country music. Can't stand it. I find it boring and depressing to say the least. So you see people have their different tastes in music, doesn't matter who you are. Hope this helps.

[Edited 5/16/11 8:38am]

Right. Patti has even said herself that her sister used to fight with people who didn't like the way she was singing and that was usually black folks.

Timmy84 said:

2elijah said:

That's because you haven't been here long enough to experience it, but yes in some of the other forums, from time-to-time you will find some comments/assumptions made by some orgers, that are racially offensive towards members of various groups, and not just towards, one specific group, as some would falsely like you to believe, so please don't fall for that nonsense.

Gunner2, I'll just say this, to many, Patti is an icon, and sings in a style not embraced or understood by many, so always expect that you will get flack about it no matter what website/messageboard you're on when criticizing her scream-type singing when she goes there, so-to-speak. Patti just has that deep, gospel, church vibe, that comes out in her songs, and she feels her songs in her soul, and doesn't hold back that feeling, and why should she really? I can understand a lot of people not liking that type of singing but truth be told, there's a lot of gospel singers that sing that way. If you don't like that type of singing, it's all good, because Patti has a plethora of fans, and one less won't take away her talent or gift. I know quite a few Black-Americans that don't favor that type scream-type singing either, regardless of the racial background of the singers, so no biggy. There's types of music I can't stand either, especially country music. Can't stand it. I find it boring and depressing to say the least. So you see people have their different tastes in music, doesn't matter who you are. Hope this helps.

[Edited 5/16/11 8:38am]

Right. Patti has even said herself that her sister used to fight with people who didn't like the way she was singing and that was usually black folks.

Some people see that type of singing as "over-singing" or "exaggeration". But you can tell exaggeration vs someone
"getting the feeling". I think regardless her type of singing deserves to be respected, regardless, if one doesn't like her style. Like I said, I don't like country music, but I respect it as a form of music.

I remember "Sam Harris" from Star Search, singing "Somewhere Over the Rainbow" like Patti LaBelle style, (go to mark 2:16 on the youtube vid below to see his famous Patti scream-yell) and he did it well, so even if some folks don't like her singing style, she has many fans, and artists that emulate her singing style.

[Edited 5/16/11 9:29am]

2elijah said:

gunner82 said:

You know what? Regardless to how "wrong" I am, I'm glad I started this thread. Hadn't experienced racism on this site yet until starting this one. I actually thought a site like Prince.org would be more open....

That's because you haven't been here long enough to experience it, but yes in some of the other forums, from time-to-time you will find some comments/assumptions made by some orgers, that are racially offensive towards members of various groups, and not just towards, one specific group, as some would falsely like you to believe, so please don't fall for that nonsense.

Gunner2, I'll just say this, to many, Patti is an icon, and sings in a style not embraced or understood by many, so always expect that you will get flack about it no matter what website/messageboard you're on when criticizing her scream-type singing when she goes there, so-to-speak. Patti just has that deep, gospel, church vibe, that comes out in her songs, and she feels her songs in her soul, and doesn't hold back that feeling, and why should she really? I can understand a lot of people not liking that type of singing but truth be told, there's a lot of gospel singers that sing that way. If you don't like that type of singing, it's all good, because Patti has a plethora of fans, and one less won't take away her talent or gift. I know quite a few Black-Americans that don't favor that type scream-type singing either, regardless of the racial background of the singers, so no biggy. There's types of music I can't stand either, especially country music. Can't stand it. I find it boring and depressing to say the least. So you see people have their different tastes in music, doesn't matter who you are. Hope this helps.

[Edited 5/16/11 8:38am]

I grew up listening to gospel music & it used to get on my nerves, So maybe that's why I feel that way also. I do understand that they're both icons to a lot of people, but I know people who absolutely hate Prince, & I don't care what they think. Racist type shit from black people to other black people is down right pathetic just like racism is to any other race. People need to wake up...

2elijah said:

Timmy84 said:

Right. Patti has even said herself that her sister used to fight with people who didn't like the way she was singing and that was usually black folks.

Some people see that type of singing as "over-singing" or "exaggeration". But you can tell exaggeration vs someone
"getting the feeling". I think regardless her type of singing deserves to be respected, regardless, if one doesn't like her style. Like I said, I don't like country music, but I respect it as a form of music.

I remember "Sam Harris" from Star Search, singing "Somewhere Over the Rainbow" like Patti LaBelle style, (go to mark 2:16 on the youtube vid below to see his famous Patti scream-yell) and he did it well, so even if some folks don't like her singing style, she has many fans, and artists that emulate her singing style.

[Edited 5/16/11 9:29am]

I love Sam Harris' take of it and yes it's VERY Patti influenced.

gunner82 said:

2elijah said:

That's because you haven't been here long enough to experience it, but yes in some of the other forums, from time-to-time you will find some comments/assumptions made by some orgers, that are racially offensive towards members of various groups, and not just towards, one specific group, as some would falsely like you to believe, so please don't fall for that nonsense.

Gunner2, I'll just say this, to many, Patti is an icon, and sings in a style not embraced or understood by many, so always expect that you will get flack about it no matter what website/messageboard you're on when criticizing her scream-type singing when she goes there, so-to-speak. Patti just has that deep, gospel, church vibe, that comes out in her songs, and she feels her songs in her soul, and doesn't hold back that feeling, and why should she really? I can understand a lot of people not liking that type of singing but truth be told, there's a lot of gospel singers that sing that way. If you don't like that type of singing, it's all good, because Patti has a plethora of fans, and one less won't take away her talent or gift. I know quite a few Black-Americans that don't favor that type scream-type singing either, regardless of the racial background of the singers, so no biggy. There's types of music I can't stand either, especially country music. Can't stand it. I find it boring and depressing to say the least. So you see people have their different tastes in music, doesn't matter who you are. Hope this helps.

[Edited 5/16/11 8:38am]

I grew up listening to gospel music & it used to get on my nerves, So maybe that's why I feel that way also. I do understand that they're both icons to a lot of people, but I know people who absolutely hate Prince, & I don't care what they think. Racist type shit from black people to other black people is down right pathetic just like racism is to any other race. People need to wake up...

Of course it is, but it seems more like a misunderstanding of a culture of music moreso than racial prejudice. I think those who assumed you were non-black, because they've more than likely experienced some disagreements with some non-black orgers on types of music here in the past, on other forums, especially when it comes to r&b, where that particular form of music has often been trashed by some non-black orgers here, not saying by a large, portion of non-black orgers, but a handful, so I think right away that's why a handful here assumed that of you. I am not saying they were right in their judgement of you at all, by giving you that reaction, but I think that's why you received that type of response. Thing is, not everyone will like the same type of music or artist regardless of one's racial background, that's left up to the individual's tastes and ears, and people just have to learn that one's taste of music cannot be judged by their skin color.

[Edited 5/16/11 13:15pm]

Timmy84 said:

2elijah said:

Some people see that type of singing as "over-singing" or "exaggeration". But you can tell exaggeration vs someone
"getting the feeling". I think regardless her type of singing deserves to be respected, regardless, if one doesn't like her style. Like I said, I don't like country music, but I respect it as a form of music.

I remember "Sam Harris" from Star Search, singing "Somewhere Over the Rainbow" like Patti LaBelle style, (go to mark 2:16 on the youtube vid below to see his famous Patti scream-yell) and he did it well, so even if some folks don't like her singing style, she has many fans, and artists that emulate her singing style.

[Edited 5/16/11 9:29am]

I love Sam Harris' take of it and yes it's VERY Patti influenced.

2elijah said:

Timmy84 said:

Right. Patti has even said herself that her sister used to fight with people who didn't like the way she was singing and that was usually black folks.

Some people see that type of singing as "over-singing" or "exaggeration". But you can tell exaggeration vs someone
"getting the feeling". I think regardless her type of singing deserves to be respected, regardless, if one doesn't like her style. Like I said, I don't like country music, but I respect it as a form of music.

I remember "Sam Harris" from Star Search, singing "Somewhere Over the Rainbow" like Patti LaBelle style, (go to mark 2:16 on the youtube vid below to see his famous Patti scream-yell) and he did it well, so even if some folks don't like her singing style, she has many fans, and artists that emulate her singing style.

I remember Sam Harris Back in the 80s,it seemed like he was on his way to superstardom but his debut album flopped and we never heard from him again.

Harlepolis said:

gunner82 said:

Thank you for "properly" disagreeing with me, instead of calling saying something stupid like "This thread is ridiculous".

Oh I had a lot in my mind but in your defense, I once felt the same way you do about both ladies and the fact that music resonate with people differently so its cool that they don't appeal to you. To me there's more to their singing than just "yelling", and when they wail, I personally feel its not for the hell of it or just plain over singing(I.E. J.Hud) its real and from a sincere place, for better or worse. I love my singers to be raw instead of being proper(I.E. Mimi & Nippy). I don't want to hear the lovey dovey shit all the time, I want some anger, confusion, sensuality, sadness, joy, ya know? Chaka gives me all of that and I actually believe her, sometimes she even boil them all in one song, listening to her is def an emotional roller coaster. I mean when Chaka sings..

I really must stay in this dirty dirty city

Till I found out my strength was gone

Its hard for me not to get emotional because the lyrics, her voice, the way she sang it and the pain she drew from when she sang it hit home for me. Its a strange feeling, she possess the power to put me in my lowest depression stage and with a swift could pull me right up, its a scary feeling too. I don't wanna sound hokey but yes, you can def call it a spiritual thing, thats exactly what I get from Chaka's voice.

Patti is more straight forward, not as complex as Chaka but you can bet your last dollar that she brings it too, but I've always felt that her solo material sold her short, not all of it but most, other than the album "I'm In Love" and some of the stuff she released in the late 70s have complimented her voice, but on a general scale, I'm not that pleased about her material.

Sorry for the long post but hopefully you'll see why they're such a big deal to many of us someday

I agree.Patti is such an amazing vocalist,but I'm not crazy about most of her albums.I like the 'I'm In Love Again' album that you mentioned but I think that,many times,she just couldn't find the right producer(s) who could handle her awesome vocals and talent.Remember that sappy album she did in 2000 featuring a bunch of wimpy pop ballads written by Diane Warren? Chaka,on the other hand,always delivers a superb album.She works with the right producers and chooses her material wisely.Her last album 'Funk This' was one of her best.

2elijah said:

experienced some disagreements with some non-black orgers on types of music here in the past, on other forums, especially when it comes to r&b, where that particular form of music has often been trashed by some non-black orgers here, not saying by a large, portion of non-black orgers, but a handful,

Why would anyone waste their time coming to a website that is dedicated to an R&B artist and trash the genre?

SoulAlive said:

I remember Sam Harris Back in the 80s,it seemed like he was on his way to superstardom but his debut album flopped and we never heard from him again.

Actually... his debut album went gold. His second (superior) album "Sam-I-Am" didn't do anything and flopped. He is now mostly working in musicals on Broadway and beyond.

lowkey said:

whitesockedfunk said:

What a ridiculous thread this is. No one can seriously say Chaka is overrated, she is one of the best singers ever IMO, who can do pop, jazz, funk, r&b, rock, soul... Just listen to her do "A Night In Tunesia" or youtube "Goin' Up Yonder" she sang at a funeral and tell me how that is in any way overrated? True, she has recorded some duds in her career, but that does not an overrated singer make, beause no singer records classic songs all the time.

Personally I am more of a fan of Chaka's than Patti, because of the histrionics indeed, but that does not take away from the fact that she is a very talented singer who has been around forever for a reason!

this! there is no way chaka has ever been overrated. i do get annoyed with patti's screaming but i wouldnt call her overrated either.now if you wanna talk about overrated my numeral uno is ARETHA FRANKLIN

It's your opinion and you're entitled to it but what?

Patti is not funky and Chaka is not funky!

Both are big sexys tho so I would like them to squish me!

Curtwill1975 said:

lowkey said:

this! there is no way chaka has ever been overrated. i do get annoyed with patti's screaming but i wouldnt call her overrated either.now if you wanna talk about overrated my numeral uno is ARETHA FRANKLIN

It's your opinion and you're entitled to it but what?

Feeling that! Aretha Franklin is amazing amazing amazing and I have much of her catalog, but I feel that she over-rates herself. Doesn't seem to have a humble bone buried in the yard. To be upset that someone would suggest that Tina Turner was a Queen, or the Queen, or whatever, is just ridiculously self-indulgent to me.

tiborculosis said:

Patti is not funky and Chaka is not funky!

Both are big sexys tho so I would like them to squish me!

Alright that's your opinion, but in the '70s besides from Betty Davis, the Brides of Funkenstein and Yvonne Fair, no one funked as harder as those two.

allsmutaside said:

Curtwill1975 said:

It's your opinion and you're entitled to it but what?

Feeling that! Aretha Franklin is amazing amazing amazing and I have much of her catalog, but I feel that she over-rates herself. Doesn't seem to have a humble bone buried in the yard. To be upset that someone would suggest that Tina Turner was a Queen, or the Queen, or whatever, is just ridiculously self-indulgent to me.

Well, there is no disagreement there. She is quite the diva to put it mildly. But not to start an argument, IMO, she's the second best female vocalist of the 20th century(secular and non classic) behind Ella.

Curtwill1975 said:

Chaka Khan is not funky? WOW!!!!!! If nothing else she's that.

Yeah that's the first time I heard that.

[Edited 5/17/11 17:06pm]

SoulAlive said:

2elijah said:

Some people see that type of singing as "over-singing" or "exaggeration". But you can tell exaggeration vs someone
"getting the feeling". I think regardless her type of singing deserves to be respected, regardless, if one doesn't like her style. Like I said, I don't like country music, but I respect it as a form of music.

I remember "Sam Harris" from Star Search, singing "Somewhere Over the Rainbow" like Patti LaBelle style, (go to mark 2:16 on the youtube vid below to see his famous Patti scream-yell) and he did it well, so even if some folks don't like her singing style, she has many fans, and artists that emulate her singing style.

I remember Sam Harris Back in the 80s,it seemed like he was on his way to superstardom but his debut album flopped and we never heard from him again.

I know. You would have thought he would have been the next, big thing. I saw a youtube clip of him from 2007 singing, and he still looks good. Doesn't look like he aged much.

[Edited 5/17/11 20:39pm]

2elijah said:

SoulAlive said:

I remember Sam Harris Back in the 80s,it seemed like he was on his way to superstardom but his debut album flopped and we never heard from him again.

I know. You would have thought he would have been the next, big thing. I saw a youtube clip of him from 2007 singing, and he still looks good. Doesn't look like he aged much.

[Edited 5/17/11 20:39pm]

I agree.