^ Two words for you. Michael Jackson.

alphastreet said:

^ Two words for you. Michael Jackson.

That brother influenced me too like Prince but, and don't take this the wrong way, you seem way too invested in him. I know you admitted it but you kinda creep me out when you do it. It's like Michael was your father or something.

[Edited 5/5/11 21:55pm]

I already know he isn't, but about 10 years ago, my own dad wasn't around at all and I didn't feel anything. I just went fuck everything, and along with other artists I loved, I listened to MJ more than ever and got too too attached and was nurturing my own musical hobbies, and was lacking a proper father figure for years who wasn't nurturing the way mj appeared in music, interviews, books etc. image or not. I let him become a drug and escape from my own emotions that the minute things went downhill with him, I let it happen too....and I couldn't stand him not being around or mj getting dissed so I automatically let myself get more and more attached. I fucking creep myself out too, trust me. I hate being the way I am. I find nothing wrong with loving him, being a fan and being inspired, and I know it's all a psychological reaction and that mj may just be a small part of it though it doesn't feel like it. Even before the death, I knew I had invested too much emotionally and got better somewhat, but I got greedy once the o2 shows came around :*( I hate using this word, but I hate how retarded he makes me act sometimes. Plus if I performed to his stuff at school to support him during the hard times, for a few minutes, I felt beautiful and special while the music was on, and loved, and like at least I mean something even if I'm so quiet and keep to myself a lot despite always having people to talk to.

My real problem is I'm a depression sufferer and it's been that way for years and I'm trying hard to handle it better now. And it's possible he may just be a part of the problem, not the problem, cause I ran away from mine....does that make sense?

[Edited 5/5/11 22:10pm]

^ I'm TRYING to make sense but I guess nothing's coming up... you seem like you're stuck in a depression and haven't sought help for it. Depression can actually make you ill and shit. If music can't cure it, you might as well seek help. Obsessing over some artist is also real unhealthy.

I've talked to counsellors about the other issues and some of this in 2009 when I was going anyways, but short term. I'm trying to get someone long term to address them and then will tie the mj stuff in once I build the trust, cause I think all along the obsession was some kind of mask (not pun intended) and someone has to understand the other parts of my life (and yes I do have one LOL) to fully get the whole picture instead of writing me off as an obsessed fan upon the first meeting. I understand too his family is sadder than I ever will be which is why I don't bother forming opinions of how they put themselves out there now anymore. And yeah I guess you can say I have been ill over it before, but other situations have also made me ill, like if I had anxiety or fears over seeing people I wanted to avoid badly (eg. a coworker or an ex boyfriend causing me stress). I've cut off contact with so many people who are unhealthy for me so I could try to find myself again.

Ok this was deeper than I thought....I thought certain personalities here were making your time spent on this site less enjoyable.

Depression is very serious and you need to deal with it professionally. Obsessing over celebrities or anyone for that matter is not good or you...talk less of someone who is dead. And yes music can be an escape from the troubles of the world but obviously you are way past that stage.

I think this goes beyond professional help too, I don't want to be written off as a nutter, cause people hear mj's name and their common sense and intelligence is out the window. The last thing I want is to encounter someone like that if I get help. I will talk about my real problems and one day just drop the obsession into it when the trust is built.

alphastreet said:

I think this goes beyond professional help too, I don't want to be written off as a nutter, cause people hear mj's name and their common sense and intelligence is out the window. The last thing I want is to encounter someone like that if I get help. I will talk about my real problems and one day just drop the obsession into it when the trust is built.

Have you ever looked into getting a therapist perhaps?

Yes I am talking about a professional like a therapist, I don't think even they will get me, I feel stuck. I understand the situation and my habits more than they ever will, though I know I need a little bit of guidance on how to not feel depressed all the time in addition to what I'm already doing. It's just no fun when my moods take over, this past week has been bad, but anxiety is doing it too and then thinking of this and dwelling on it makes me even more sad.

alphastreet said:

Yes I am talking about a professional like a therapist, I don't think even they will get me, I feel stuck. I understand the situation and my habits more than they ever will, though I know I need a little bit of guidance on how to not feel depressed all the time in addition to what I'm already doing. It's just no fun when my moods take over, this past week has been bad, but anxiety is doing it too and then thinking of this and dwelling on it makes me even more sad.

So...have you looked into getting one or not?

I probably have no idea what you're going through but I do love Michael too...I hate seeing diehard fans going through such hard times because they were probably the only ones who were on his side before his death =( Have you tried to write your feelings down? After he passed away I wrote a letter to him about how sad I am that he's passed away so soon and thanks for music dancing magic and humanitarian work etc. I still have it with me and I wanna place it either at Forest Lawn or in front of Neverland when I get a chance to go to Cali if I can...If you love Michael like a family member you probably know what his mission and intention were more than any other fans out there...so if you focus on philanthropy work and know that by doing that you can keep Michael's intention alive...you might feel better...

Timmy84 said:

alphastreet said:

^ Two words for you. Michael Jackson.

That brother influenced me too like Prince but, and don't take this the wrong way, you seem way too invested in him. I know you admitted it but you kinda creep me out when you do it. It's like Michael was your father or something.

[Edited 5/5/11 21:55pm]

Isn’t it like that with a lot of his fans though ? I have trouble sometimes talking to his fans I was very saddened about what happen to him but I can’t let that interfere with my own life. And I’m noticing this with Gaga’s little monster’s i’m on a Gaga forum and I have to take breaks because they be getting me pissed.

babybugz said:

Timmy84 said:

That brother influenced me too like Prince but, and don't take this the wrong way, you seem way too invested in him. I know you admitted it but you kinda creep me out when you do it. It's like Michael was your father or something.

[Edited 5/5/11 21:55pm]

Isn’t it like that with a lot of his fans though ? I have trouble sometimes talking to his fans I was very saddened about what happen to him but I can’t let that interfere with my own life. And I’m noticing this with Gaga’s little monster’s i’m on a Gaga forum and I have to take breaks because they be getting me pissed.

If you go on certain boards, yeah definitely. I never get that kind of obsession with someone you admire. I guess I can understand but it's still weird.

Trust me, extreme mj fans, especially on mjjforum creeped me out too with their cult like talk and scared me away by the time the 2005 trial was almost over. Sure I was obsessed and hooked but had a life and still do, but I didn't realize how deep I let myself get sucked in though I knew it too at the same time and why it happened. I do see a psychiatrist currently and take mood stabilizers but I'm looking for a new counsellor to talk to. I should mention I was having a major crisis immediately before his death and just before I could get help for that, it happened and put me on edge more, so it's not like grieving completely caused it either.

I did write several letters after the passing after someone's suggestion (a good one, thanks) and I mostly wrote poetry to express how I'm feeling, but I'm out of ideas though when they come, I get them down if I can. I always tried to incorporate humanitarianism and music/art into my life for years but it was already declining and now I feel I have given up though I'm trying to concentrate on it more. I don't feel I can ever be as genuine as him, thus not good enough and have to come into my own.

wow... i haven't been here in about 3 or 4 days, and this converstion is interesting... i'm personally not a fan of forums, but i was told to go to this one because there are people into michael who were open-minded... AGAIN, music is NOT escapism for me... to me, music is a way to communicate in a socio-political fashion. it's a way to speak on issues major media refuses to discuss. if artists are not discussing such things in one form or another (either through their music or outside of it) i tend not to respect them as artists. that is just me.

so i don't particularly enjoy forums because for many, music is about escapism. it's happened many times on this site, so i made the desicion to not be on here so much, and when i do it's usually to skim through. i thought i'd have some nice socio-political discussions on michael (and prince perhaps) but that isn't the case most of the time, so i just utilize my energy doing other things.

i also suffer from depression, and ocassionally it does affect my interractions with others, but it doesn't affect the way i listen to music, or see artists. with michael,. i identify with him as another person who experienced childhood trauma. this is actually the gague i do view michael. when i speak on this, there are no responses, so i figure that yes, most people here choose not to engage in that way, because for them music (and michael) is about escapism.

to me, michael's music is about someone who's never properly dealt with his own traumas; as well as someone who worked to make positive socio-political change in this world. no more, no less. to me, he ISN'T bout singing and dancing. that's fine if that's what he means for other people; it's just not how i personally experience him.

and so, if i ever find a person who emphasizes his art/teachings in the same way i do i'll be quite happy. i don't know if that will ever happen; and if it doesn't that's just something i'll have to live with.

with that, i just find being on this forum isn't something that's going to improve my life if i sit here seeking for something i most likely will never find.

alphastreet said:

Trust me, extreme mj fans, especially on mjjforum creeped me out too with their cult like talk and scared me away by the time the 2005 trial was almost over. Sure I was obsessed and hooked but had a life and still do, but I didn't realize how deep I let myself get sucked in though I knew it too at the same time and why it happened. I do see a psychiatrist currently and take mood stabilizers but I'm looking for a new counsellor to talk to. I should mention I was having a major crisis immediately before his death and just before I could get help for that, it happened and put me on edge more, so it's not like grieving completely caused it either.

I did write several letters after the passing after someone's suggestion (a good one, thanks) and I mostly wrote poetry to express how I'm feeling, but I'm out of ideas though when they come, I get them down if I can. I always tried to incorporate humanitarianism and music/art into my life for years but it was already declining and now I feel I have given up though I'm trying to concentrate on it more. I don't feel I can ever be as genuine as him, thus not good enough and have to come into my own.

i guess i'm not sure what you mean when you say 'sucked in'... as in, you don't have a life outside of michael? outside of these forums?

MJJstudent said:

wow... i haven't been here in about 3 or 4 days, and this converstion is interesting... i'm personally not a fan of forums, but i was told to go to this one because there are people into michael who were open-minded... AGAIN, music is NOT escapism for me... to me, music is a way to communicate in a socio-political fashion. it's a way to speak on issues major media refuses to discuss. if artists are not discussing such things in one form or another (either through their music or outside of it) i tend not to respect them as artists. that is just me.

so i don't particularly enjoy forums because for many, music is about escapism. it's happened many times on this site, so i made the desicion to not be on here so much, and when i do it's usually to skim through. i thought i'd have some nice socio-political discussions on michael (and prince perhaps) but that isn't the case most of the time, so i just utilize my energy doing other things.

This is pretty much how I have always felt and why I wanted to find forums in the first place but now my interest has greatly dropped. Originally, I sought music forums because one I love music and it is a form of escape, HOWEVER I am very opinionated. Most of the music I listen to as well as my views goes against the grains of mainstream like you said and I thought music forums were opportunities to voice that appropiately. I started going on forums when I was... what 13 yea that is young and so far I honestly cant say I have found a forum where music lovers seriously want to discuss MUSIC.. So far it is mostly on gossip rather than music or members just arguing back and forth. Its alright to have fun and discuss silly things sometimes but it seems as though it is wrong to be opinionated or to have an opposing view on something music related when really that is one of the main points of a music forum. I just dont quite understand it.. Everyone is not going to have the same opinion and why should everything be fluff and peaches and cream around here? I mean humor is good lol but come onnn lets have a real serious music discussion lol I mean this IS a music forum.. I have also notice that threads are at times can be popularity driven.. This board is a bit more better than alot of other forums veI gone to and am apart of but it still has its cons at times

[Edited 5/8/11 20:24pm]

mjscarousal said:

MJJstudent said:

wow... i haven't been here in about 3 or 4 days, and this converstion is interesting... i'm personally not a fan of forums, but i was told to go to this one because there are people into michael who were open-minded... AGAIN, music is NOT escapism for me... to me, music is a way to communicate in a socio-political fashion. it's a way to speak on issues major media refuses to discuss. if artists are not discussing such things in one form or another (either through their music or outside of it) i tend not to respect them as artists. that is just me.

so i don't particularly enjoy forums because for many, music is about escapism. it's happened many times on this site, so i made the desicion to not be on here so much, and when i do it's usually to skim through. i thought i'd have some nice socio-political discussions on michael (and prince perhaps) but that isn't the case most of the time, so i just utilize my energy doing other things.

This is pretty much how I have always felt and why I wanted to find forums in the first place but now my interest has greatly dropped. Originally, I sought music forums because one I love music and it is a form of escape, HOWEVER I am very opinionated. Most of the music I listen to as well as my views goes against the grains of mainstream like you said and I thought music forums were opportunities to voice that appropiately. I started going on forums when I was... what 13 yea that is young and so far I honestly cant say I have found a forum where music lovers seriously want to discuss MUSIC.. So far it is mostly on gossip rather than music or members just arguing back and forth. Its alright to have fun and discuss silly things sometimes but it seems as though it is wrong to be opinionated or to have an opposing view on something music related when really that is one of the main points of a music forum. I just dont quite understand it.. Everyone is not going to have the same opinion and why should everything be fluff and peaches and cream around here? I mean humor is good lol but come onnn lets have a real serious music discussion lol I mean this IS a music forum.. I have also notice that threads are at times can be popularity driven.. This board is a bit more better than alot of other forums veI gone to and am apart of but it still has its cons at times

[Edited 5/8/11 20:24pm]

The good thing about this board is you can skim through all that bullshit that sometimes occur here... no one's a fan of socio-politics here I don't think.

But mainly I think the OP is dealing with a lot more than stupid arguments on a music-supported message board, which is why it seems so personal.

Timmy84 said:

[Edited 5/8/11 20:24pm]

The good thing about this board is you can skim through all that bullshit that sometimes occur here... no one's a fan of socio-politics here I don't think.

Most music forums are not musically conscience or political.

The funny part is though most claim to be but most of the times its nothing but a bunch of elementary bullshit and the members who are intellectual have to pick over certain threads because other members will bash them for being opinionated which is ridiculous or just get bashed regardless. It is what it is. Sometimes you just have to accept the conformity or the atmosphere of forums, it doesnt mean you have to comment or take part in it BUT I feel music forums as a whole would be a whole lot better if so called music lovers would conversate more on music than on other things.

[Edited 5/8/11 20:50pm]

mjscarousal said:

Timmy84 said:

The good thing about this board is you can skim through all that bullshit that sometimes occur here... no one's a fan of socio-politics here I don't think.

Most music forums are not musically conscience or political.

The funny part is though most claim to be but most of the times its nothing but a bunch of elementary bullshit and the members who are intellectual have to pick over certain threads because other members will bash them for being opinionated which is ridiculous or just get bashed regardless.

Just beware of the bullshit...and stay away from it.

mjscarousal said:

MJJstudent said:

wow... i haven't been here in about 3 or 4 days, and this converstion is interesting... i'm personally not a fan of forums, but i was told to go to this one because there are people into michael who were open-minded... AGAIN, music is NOT escapism for me... to me, music is a way to communicate in a socio-political fashion. it's a way to speak on issues major media refuses to discuss. if artists are not discussing such things in one form or another (either through their music or outside of it) i tend not to respect them as artists. that is just me.

so i don't particularly enjoy forums because for many, music is about escapism. it's happened many times on this site, so i made the desicion to not be on here so much, and when i do it's usually to skim through. i thought i'd have some nice socio-political discussions on michael (and prince perhaps) but that isn't the case most of the time, so i just utilize my energy doing other things.

This is pretty much how I have always felt and why I wanted to find forums in the first place but now my interest has greatly dropped. Originally, I sought music forums because one I love music and it is a form of escape, HOWEVER I am very opinionated. Most of the music I listen to as well as my views goes against the grains of mainstream like you said and I thought music forums were opportunities to voice that appropiately. I started going on forums when I was... what 13 yea that is young and so far I honestly cant say I have found a forum where music lovers seriously want to discuss MUSIC.. So far it is mostly on gossip rather than music or members just arguing back and forth. Its alright to have fun and discuss silly things sometimes but it seems as though it is wrong to be opinionated or to have an opposing view on something music related when really that is one of the main points of a music forum. I just dont quite understand it.. Everyone is not going to have the same opinion and why should everything be fluff and peaches and cream around here? I mean humor is good lol but come onnn lets have a real serious music discussion lol I mean this IS a music forum.. I have also notice that threads are at times can be popularity driven.. This board is a bit more better than alot of other forums veI gone to and am apart of but it still has its cons at times

[Edited 5/8/11 20:24pm]

i am very much with you, carousel... i am very much into discussing music technique, engineering, discussions about audiophile/acetate/etc. releases, etc.... stuff about compression v. non-compression, multi-tracking, different types of microphones... i love that stuff.

interestingly, michael was into that too... he loved learning about different gadgets and such. i love that stuff as well, and i'm far from surprised he stayed with swedien pretty much his whole adult career- that man is the best in his field.

i see these discussions on sites like gear slutz, but not beyond that, unfortunately. there's no site in which michael is the focus when it comes to these discuaaions.

back to the story at hand- i know i'm not going to get that sort of discussion here (nor will i get any discussion about political stuff relating to music) so i don't work to seek it. there are people i do that with in person. it's not to the point i would love to have these discussions, but i realize that some is better than none.

i don't see strong opinions on forums; i agree with you there... this is why i don't subscribe to them... this is the only one i've signed up with. it's as if differing opinions get phased out/silenced in many ways. i have experienced that here on this site.

i'm personally just not into the 'oh michael is so cute/michael can do no wrong/oh i love this song without explanation as to why' crowd... i mean, there's nothing wrong with that if that's what you're into... it's just not what i am into. i'm into speaking about michael's craft into detail... the layering, the cadence, the mastering...

and as i said, i'm also into the socio-political significance of michael's (or anyone's) art. i think this discussion should move beyond the walls/towers of academia.

i choose not to have the fluffy conversations in my life... i like to have fun (as you said) but yes, when i come to a place of discussion, i'm serious about discussion. it would be nice to have a serious music discussion about technique without the condesension.

mjscarousal said:

Timmy84 said:

The good thing about this board is you can skim through all that bullshit that sometimes occur here... no one's a fan of socio-politics here I don't think.

Most music forums are not musically conscience or political.

The funny part is though most claim to be but most of the times its nothing but a bunch of elementary bullshit and the members who are intellectual have to pick over certain threads because other members will bash them for being opinionated which is ridiculous or just get bashed regardless. It is what it is. Sometimes you just have to accept the conformity or the atmosphere of forums, it doesnt mean you have to comment or take part in it BUT I feel music forums as a whole would be a whole lot better if so called music lovers would conversate more on music than on other things.

[Edited 5/8/11 20:50pm]

yup.

Timmy84 said:

mjscarousal said:

Most music forums are not musically conscience or political.

The funny part is though most claim to be but most of the times its nothing but a bunch of elementary bullshit and the members who are intellectual have to pick over certain threads because other members will bash them for being opinionated which is ridiculous or just get bashed regardless.

Just beware of the bullshit...and stay away from it.

tim, this is why i am not really on here... too much of it for me. not enough serious discussion.

Timmy84 said:

mjscarousal said:

This is pretty much how I have always felt and why I wanted to find forums in the first place but now my interest has greatly dropped. Originally, I sought music forums because one I love music and it is a form of escape, HOWEVER I am very opinionated. Most of the music I listen to as well as my views goes against the grains of mainstream like you said and I thought music forums were opportunities to voice that appropiately. I started going on forums when I was... what 13 yea that is young and so far I honestly cant say I have found a forum where music lovers seriously want to discuss MUSIC.. So far it is mostly on gossip rather than music or members just arguing back and forth. Its alright to have fun and discuss silly things sometimes but it seems as though it is wrong to be opinionated or to have an opposing view on something music related when really that is one of the main points of a music forum. I just dont quite understand it.. Everyone is not going to have the same opinion and why should everything be fluff and peaches and cream around here? I mean humor is good lol but come onnn lets have a real serious music discussion lol I mean this IS a music forum.. I have also notice that threads are at times can be popularity driven.. This board is a bit more better than alot of other forums veI gone to and am apart of but it still has its cons at times

[Edited 5/8/11 20:24pm]

The good thing about this board is you can skim through all that bullshit that sometimes occur here... no one's a fan of socio-politics here I don't think.

but if i am looking for socio-political conversations about music and art, i am going to be skipping pretty much the whole site outside of 'politics and religion' (which doesn't really have discussions about music). why should the conversation be relegated to just that section? because no one wants to discuss the ugly stuff, outside of that little section. we're conditioned to just close our eyes and be blinded, and just escape through popular culture.

this is why i do not watch television or listen to radio. it would be nice to know there are others who are able to go outside of some little section to have a discussion about serious things.

Timmy84 said:

But mainly I think the OP is dealing with a lot more than stupid arguments on a music-supported message board, which is why it seems so personal.

i agree, it is more than music. but if music is escapism for folks, isn't that hiding from something as well, as escapism is a mode of hiding? i'm just sayin'.

MJJstudent said:

Timmy84 said:

But mainly I think the OP is dealing with a lot more than stupid arguments on a music-supported message board, which is why it seems so personal.

i agree, it is more than music. but if music is escapism for folks, isn't that hiding from something as well, as escapism is a mode of hiding? i'm just sayin'.

No, I wouldn't necessarily call it hiding... if it was, most of us would say we're scared to get out of our house or something and I've yet to see anyone say that.

Timmy84 said:

MJJstudent said:

i agree, it is more than music. but if music is escapism for folks, isn't that hiding from something as well, as escapism is a mode of hiding? i'm just sayin'.

No, I wouldn't necessarily call it hiding... if it was, most of us would say we're scared to get out of our house or something and I've yet to see anyone say that.

i'm not talking about that... you can get out of the house and still be scared to live. people escape with music, drugs, sex, co-dependency... they still get out of the house. people escape because possibly, they think something is lacking in their own lives. i cannot say that about people here on this forum, but why would music be a way to escape if there is nothing to hide? why can't music just be music with a purpose? why hide behind music?

what is our purpose in life? why can't music be a way to communicate, as opposed to hiding? i can see music as a guide, but why escapism, when the word 'escapism' is usually used as a means of substituting something else going on? i just don't get it, i guess.

^ Music IS a way of communication (and modern pop music still has a magic of doing it even if the majority here claims they hate it lol). People sometimes misuse it. I don't get all that you're saying. Are you saying that people are afraid of confronting their problems by using music as an excuse? JW... (just wondering).

Timmy84 said:

^ Music IS a way of communication (and modern pop music still has a magic of doing it even if the majority here claims they hate it lol). People sometimes misuse it. I don't get all that you're saying. Are you saying that people are afraid of confronting their problems by using music as an excuse? JW... (just wondering).

that is EXACTLY what i am asking, my man.

and i agree, modern pop music is also a form of communication... to me though, it's a very negative type of communication. it's very dark energy. and i'm glad you explained what "JW' was because i was going to ask if you meant 'jehova's witness'... i don't know what a lot of modern acronyms mean... i didn't know what "LOL' was until last year. i don't get it. i guess i'm just old school, i have to write everything out.