Wow,Lameless,that is SOME commentary your friend emailed to you!! It sums up my thoughts completely

papaa said:

Men laying horizontal getting erections is actually scientific fact, resulting from blood flow re-appropriation. The bed is also the widely accepted home to sexuality... you don't want to hear this though. When we are talking the divine "King Of Pop" in bed with boys it's all charm, cocoa and cookies.

This all said I never planned to argue a sole pro-Chandler view point on this thread, just to put that side out there in face of the almost solely MJ fanatical brigade who take the time to read threads in his name here at Prince.Org. I am unusual in actually being a follower of his music yet keeping objective.

Had it not been for your patronising mocking of my "zeal" or total disregard for any suspicion regarding Jackson's relationships with boys I wouldn't took the time to go point for point...

Essence said:

AND THAT'S THE FUNNIEST THING I'VE READ ALL DAY!!

Thanks Essence, [wipes tears from eyes]...you've cheered me up no end!!

First it was the "esteemed" Lewis-Smith! :lol

Then [chortle] the infamous..."grounds of realistic suspicion".

And now this!

Cheers old buddy!

My two euros

PS: This is why I love the org! A man can die of laughter in these forums.

OK OK ENOUGH ALREADY! Essence I like and respect you bro. I joined your yahoo prince club years back and share a lot of the same tastes as you when it comes to music. But it's time to let this Michael shit go man! I can respect how you feel and although I feel 180 degrees differently on this issue respect your thoughts on this. But it's come to a point where nothing new is being said. Nobody is going to change your mind on this subject and I doubt you will change any on the other side. Of course you have the right to post what you wish but I just wanted to give my thoughts on this. I hate to see us all waste time on something that is really bearing no fruit.

intha916 said:

My Feelings Exactly.

papaa said:

Yeah man it's a seriously off the wall (ooh check the pun) concept to believe that when an individual informed on this case sees little reasonable doubt attached to Jackson that they're a fan of his music and have grown up steeped in his enigmatic appeal. If you think your views are a majority in any other forum but a Michael Jackson fan thread on a Prince site you are deranged. Non-fans don't care enough to follow the case in such depth.

Really crazy stuff and worth all your hilarity-expressing emoticons no doubt, next thing you know I'll be dangling a baby over the balcony...

intha916 said:

It's all cool this end man, well except when Papaa so expertly patronises me, those moments tear at my very soul. Read back and see that I have only ever replied to other's OTT, emotional outpourings and not actually been an initiator in anything but providing a link to Chandler's testimony.

Essence said:

Naw I'm not siding with anyone attacking you Essence. Nothing I said was meant at your in a personal sense. I feel I'm better informed on this subject than 99% of the people on here. Honestly from what I've read in your posts so far, you seem to have a good grasp of the facts as well. We just came to different conclusions processing these facts. I avoid detailed posts on this subject because they are pointless (imho) People tend to go with their gut on this. Some people love Mike so much that if you showed them a picture of him moleting a child they would make excuses fro him. Others seem to driven to find something evil about the man to the point of picking up any and everything bad ever said about the man and running with it. I fall in the middle. You and I could sit down and after some discussion, you may or may change my mind. Hell I feel I may even be able to change yours. But that's not the point. The point is everyone on here isn't as informed on this subject as you and I, so as i said, it turns into mike lovers vs the mike haters. And I just don't want to see you included on the hater side because I feel you have put more thought into this than just going with your guut.

the Bottom line here in the Usa is this:A Black Man with Money or No Money if He is Guilty&they have enough Evidence to Nail Him He is done.and even if He Wins in COurt the Public Preception will still make Him a Outcast.I Feel OJ is Innocent&I think the Procescutions Case was Weak&there time Line&Detectives on the Case Cost them Creadiblity IMHO.as for Michael:AmeriKKKa don't want no Billionaire Negro rolling like He does&if they can't get Him in Court they can always try to break him down in His Wallet or somewhere else.unless you live here&understand how this System works then you don't Know&are just Speculating My Friend.Mike ain't hidden nothing.His Money didn't mean a thing if they had Him on something?I Know how this Country operates when you are Black&when it Comes to Just Us&Justice!

mistermaxxx said:

I somewhat agree maxx but Mike is setting himself up for shit like this. That is what's the saddest thing about this whole thing. Dude doesn't have anyone that can make him see he lives in the real world and not neverland. And not to ignite the OJ thing again, I don't know if he did it or not but one thing I do feel was proven during his trial, was the LAPD tried to set him up. It does make you think when you realize it was the same department and same DA that went after Mike a few years earlier.

intha916 said:

I feel you totally man, it's a shame not everybody could express themselves in such a calm rational fashion. I couldn't care less if someone termed me a "hater" as how I perceive my ownself can only be key.

While admitting nothing new came out here and no mindset's seemingly budged at all, why should I have been submissive, laid down and accepted a barrage of posts treating the concept of a thread linking to Jordan Chandler's testimony with pure disdain?

intha916 said:

Yeah I Agree Michael doesn't have anyone around Him that will say Mike Damnit listen Man you are a Great Artist,etc... but that doesn't excuse from Being Black¬ having folks trying to get in your Business.I understand why He lives like He does amongest His Lifestyle,Image,etc.. but Bro Man needs some Company His Own Age to chill with.there has to be a Balance between his Kid Friends&His Older Buddys like Liz&Liza.but everything else with MJ is cool when you consider all He has been through.OJ I still feel got set up.

intha916 said:

Haha you know I only raised the OJ Simpson trial to point out the hypocrisy of those on this thread who spout the "No court charges were upheld so he's innocent!" line when many of them will think OJ guilty as sin. Both cases have a demonised "fall guy" (Mr Chandler and the LAPD respectively) and both paid massive amounts of cash to resolve the charges (alebit under different circumstances). MJ is innocent to many here because he's MJ and they're MJ fans, it's no bigger than that really.

Essence said:

I Don't Feel MJ was Guilty of anything but Being a Black Man with Children&being a Sexual Suspect&that Image was used against Him with nothing ever being filed against Him but the Media Damage was Done.OJ I don't feel was Guilty but A Black Man with a White Woman in that Area&the Rage Used against Him made Him Seem like a Monster but the Evidence didn't stick properly in Either case.Black Folks do Committ Crimes like the Snipper&Baby Snipper etc.. but we also Live in a Country where like I said Before a Black Face Carries Guilt for no other reason than just Being the Skin you are in.remember something about over Here there is Two Worlds:Just Us&Justice.

Essence: Where do you get this $26M figure? Seeing as how the settlement is a closed document and the amount I have seen "estimated" is between $5M and $20M. You might want to call the media and tell them you know the amount.

As far as you calling the settlement a payoff, Michael actually turned down Evan Chandler when he went to Michael before the allegations surfaced and asked for $20M to keep it silent.

The reason he "settled" the case is because a civil case doesn't require the same burden of proof. It is far less in fact. By the time it would have gone to court the media was so out of hand his attorneys told Michael we can't guarantee the outcome EVEN though they were not true.

I don't yet see any "facts" by you to show he is guilty. I thought it was innocent until proven guilty. But you seem to have pre-determined his guilt. The District Attorney back then (Gil Garcetti) had a hard-on - no pun intended - in his efforts to get MJ. More money and resources were put toward this investigation than 99% of the murder cases.

I say show the facts, not what you or anyone else thinks are fact.

Sartoria said:

Thumbs Up.

26 millions of dollars, think for 1 second of all the poor children's lifes (it seems that in MJ's mind adult are all perverts, bads and deserve to die while kids aren't able of cruelty...) living in third world's countries that this sum could have helped to save/ improve their quality of life...,and think about MJ' attitude against Sony/ Motolla recently, he was angry he was fighting..hum

Sartoria said:

I've often seen it reported as $26m (and never less than "in upwards of $15m") so when we're talking $15m+ it's a massive amount regardless so not much point in quibbling on that factor.

Your other points on the whole have been covered in the 100 odd messages here, MJ fans such as yourself will at least be able to quell any future threads on this topic as you can link back to this one which went over and over the prosecution and defence lines as indepth as anyone could wish on a Prince site. Neither opinion can be proven but both deserve to be equally reported.

Readers can process and interpret the information available however they wish, just as "Intha916" wisely said...

Essence said:

you are truly wasting your time.I ahve been over this whole issue lik 10 years ago on the matter&I've heard all the details&no Amount of Money can Clear you with something so serious if the Evidence is there.take Basketball Player Jayson Williams who Accidentally Killed His Limo Driver&then tried to Cover it up: He just got through Paying the Family Up but the Evidence is still strong enough to Warrent Him going to Court&He is facing Some Serious Charges because Prove is there.we had one Bashir we don't need another One?? you ain't sad nothing that I hadnt heard or knew about or thought about oh like 10 Years ago.so please Retire from playing Detective when you can't Prove nothing.

mistermaxxx said:

To be fair, the message your replying to was a concluding one so I don't where your sudden surge of anger came from?

Also there's no need to villainise Martin Bashir into another Evan Chandler just because he's involved with a project/issue which showed MJ in a bad light. All you probably know him from is this one interview, one which you've seemingly placed too much emotional attachment.

Martin is a respected journalist who has written excellent pieces for The Financial Times, Observer etc and has done much worthy news reporting also. He's taken money to move into the higher profile celebrity market Princess Diana etc which is his right.

Do you think Granada would have been happy if he spent the eight months with Jackson and just came back with footage covering how to do the moonwalk and mic techniques in the studio? The documentary was made for the wider global marketplace's mass viewership and all it's financial rewards, not the hardcore MJ fan.

Essence said:

Bashir Manipulated 8 Months into 2 Hours&then threw a Spin on 30 Minutes.no balance as a Journalist IMHO.MJ tapped His Ass just so you know because He knew this Cat had another agenda.you don't know the full details on the Allegations&are just throwing your spin on it which was covered 10 years back.I Question you on this Matter because it's Watering you down badly.

mistermaxxx said:

Martin Bashir did the job he was paid to do, did it well and created a media storm and barrell load of money. Word is ABC are going to offer him a multi-million dollar TV deal so you'll be able to catch him on regular soon...

The GQ article was covered ten years back too, just brought a different twist to level things out with the other side of the game. Can't see how there's anything "watered down" about staying true to something you believe or have an opinion in a forum where it's seemingly not the general concensus either... moreso keeping it real.

It's still going on I see lol. Can't we just all get along

Essence: You are right that both sides need to be heard but the media the past 10 years has only reported your side. I have never seen the author of the GQ article in a TV interview. Have you? Calling me a fan of MJ in an attempt to insinuate I can't analyze the information unbiasedly is not cool. I own 2 MJ albums - OTW and Thriller. How many do you?

Last night on The O'Reilly Factor, attorney Gloria (forgot her last name) was again calling for MJ to be investigated. She was the original attorney for the boy. But here is the interesting thing - O'Reilly found out that she resigned from representing the boy after only 10 days back in 1993. She refused to answer why. Another bit of info that no other show mentioned. Curious considering she is such an advocate for children. The media one-sided salnt has been overwhelmingly against MJ. We on this thread have spoke more about both sides of this issue than any TV show has lately. But this thread is not the media.

My problem is that it is frustrating that not ALL the correct info gets out there for the general public to make a better analysis of the situation. It is not just what is said, it is what is NOT said. Most people looking at the events today and hearing about the Jordy case 10 years ago have no idea that the GQ article even exists let alone what is says. That article is about the only "other" side out there.

I think back to the Richard Jewel situation and know how the media gets on a roll toward one end and completely dismisses the other. That has been the case with MJ. He is odd, eccentric, and weird to many people. It is easy to mark him as a threat or bad or evil and run with that because it is more sensational and makes for better headlines. The cable news shows are doing that now. The points you put on this tread are the same points everyone everywhere has been making for 10 years. I just don't see how such a massive investigation the produced no charges of any kind should lead to a conclusion of guilt.

The civil settlement has absoulutely nothing to do with the criminal case and therefore should not be considered as an admission of guilt. You can sue anybody for any reason whatsoever. Is all you have to do is file. The criminal requires evidence to arrest, charge, and inprison. I don't like to see anyone raked through the press without displaying all facts for the public to digest. In the media, MJ has not gotten that. But if evidence does come forth, I say put him in prison. Until that time he innocent.

Sartoria said:

That's cool, by "fan" I just meant anybody who would take time to read up on this case would usually have some interest in MJ, if not just law as a whole.

Many things could be read into the fact that the GQ article is one of the only messages of support in his favour, you are right that the media slant hasn't bean geared in that direction though.

However his career hasn't been overly damaged as a result of this so called white wash campaign, he still commands great sales, big hype on a documentary or new video. I haven't heard of any boycotts have you? Gary Glitter (Obviously a lesser star) has been ostracised from society since he was found to have child porn on his computer, the real condemnation only comes with the authenticism of a criminal conviction not suspicions and hearsay... IMO Jackson came out of it all very well considering how child abuse claims can stick.

No I haven't heard of any boycotts either. I think there are just too many fans around the world who love him and will always support him to a degree. Nobody really cares about Gary Glitter. He is just of footnote interest. But Michael is not the only one who has survived such claims.

Roman Polanski is nominated for a "Director of the Year" Oscar. The DA on tv today said he would be arrested right off the plane if he came back. They have evidence that he molested (raped) a 13 year old girl. This is mentioned regularly on the cable news and such, but nobody seems to get up in arms about it. No protests or boycotts there either. And he has a warrant out for his arrest! Woody Allen has survived and thrived too. He hasn't been ostracised either. So others make it through these type of scandals without losing the respect of their peers.

I agree with you that Michael has done OK considering the attention all this has gotten the past 10 years. MJ seems to be his own worst enemy sometimes. I tell you though, I would sure like too see an interview with Jordy. I wonder if there will be a time in which he can legally talk? Anyway, I am sure this saga will continue...