For every album it seems that MJ changed physically. His skin color lightened [I personally believe he had vitiligo & got treatments to speed up the process], he had more surgeries, grew his hair long [or weaved it because his scalp did get burnt making the "Pepsi" commercial]. But here's the thing, what if MJ would have stayed the same way he looked in '84 & did no more surgery & didn't have "vitiligo"? Can you still imagine him doing the cover for 'BAD'? The look he had for 'HIStory' & the long hair he had During the 'Dangerous' era, would it still have worked? For some reason, I've always looked at MJ's era's depending on what he looked like at the time. Could you see him making 'Invincible' looking the same way he did in '84? What thinketh you?????????

[img:$uid]http://www.rense.com/1.imagesH/elez.jpg[/img:$uid]

novabrkr said:

[img:$uid]http://www.rense.com/1.imagesH/elez.jpg[/img:$uid]

?????????????????????

there's a MJ sticky

He still could've done it with MINOR changes here and there. Most of the stuff he did to himself was major reconstruction. Changing the hair would be no big deal, changing the clothing style also. But the plastic surgery was deep stuff.

The real question is if he would have been just as popular/successful w/o the sugeries and losing his pigmentation.

Even so, I think that a lot of his face stayed the same it's just that because the nose is such a prominent feature on our faces the fact that it changed made it seem as if he reconstructed his entire face during the years. One great example is that lady from Dirty Dancing. I guess the irony would be that b/c she changed her nose her career kinda suffered because of it. (As far as I know.)

No..he would not have been wearing that wig he did in the invincible era had he been darkskinned still. HOwever because he did have vitiligo and everything happened for a reason; thus is the way he was supposed to look like to begin with..at least could have done without all the nose and chin tampering...which he did himself.

paisleypark4 said:

No..he would not have been wearing that wig he did in the invincible era had he been darkskinned still.

I like how you stated that as if that was some undeniable fact.

Unholyalliance said:

paisleypark4 said:

No..he would not have been wearing that wig he did in the invincible era had he been darkskinned still.

I like how you stated that as if that was some undeniable fact.

novabrkr said:

[img:$uid]http://www.rense.com/1.imagesH/elez.jpg[/img:$uid]

Novakrkr - that is perfection son.

I was always surprised that his increasingly weird appearance didn't affect his popularity. It shows that his fans didn't care what he looked like. After all, it IS supposed to be about the music. I have no problem with his skin (alabaster skin is beautiful!) but that tiny mishapen nose was all wrong for his face. It made his mouth look huge and his eyes even buggier. It was just an ugly nose on any person. I can't believe he spent money on that. Aside from the nose though, he was attractive. He was HOT back in '83 or so but nothing lasts forever.

MidniteMagnet said:

I was always surprised that his increasingly weird appearance didn't affect his popularity. It shows that his fans didn't care what he looked like. After all, it IS supposed to be about the music. I have no problem with his skin (alabaster skin is beautiful!) but that tiny mishapen nose was all wrong for his face. It made his mouth look huge and his eyes even buggier. It was just an ugly nose on any person. I can't believe he spent money on that. Aside from the nose though, he was attractive. He was HOT back in '83 or so but nothing lasts forever.

I think it DID affect his popularity, with the black community anyway. Brown MJ was the image of black male beauty to most of us. After the Bad era, I slowly began to fall out of love with him.

Ironically, I think that if he would have just left his face alone or stopped the surgery after Off the Wall, he would have ended up looking like another image of black male beauty at the time....Billy Dee Williams.

gunner82 said:

For every album it seems that MJ changed physically. His skin color lightened [I personally believe he had vitiligo & got treatments to speed up the process], he had more surgeries, grew his hair long [or weaved it because his scalp did get burnt making the "Pepsi" commercial]. But here's the thing, what if MJ would have stayed the same way he looked in '84 & did no more surgery & didn't have "vitiligo"? Can you still imagine him doing the cover for 'BAD'? The look he had for 'HIStory' & the long hair he had During the 'Dangerous' era, would it still have worked? For some reason, I've always looked at MJ's era's depending on what he looked like at the time. Could you see him making 'Invincible' looking the same way he did in '84? What thinketh you?????????

I don't know how many surgeries he's done but I think it's a lot less than we think...

I think hair and make up makes huge change... If you look at his face closely and don't look at hair and skin color..there's not much change from 1988 to This Is It....Only Invincible era was a little off...I think...

Emancipation89 said:

I don't know how many surgeries he's done but I think it's a lot less than we think...

I think hair and make up makes huge change... If you look at his face closely and don't look at hair and skin color..there's not much change from 1988 to This Is It....Only Invincible era was a little off...I think...

I couldn't agree more, I'm pretty sure he had very few, I'm thinking 3 or 4. 1 because he broke his nose and it needed the reconstruction. But if you look at the pictures, I can only tell the cleft chin, and it looks like 1 more nose job from 1988 to 2003.

JoeTyler said:

there's a MJ sticky

Fuck that sticky! Do you see what's posted on there? I'm asking a real question for real responses. Not for a bunch of people always trying to defend. I love MJ & Prince both equally, but I want real thoughts & responses. Not a bunch of defenders & trashtalk!!

TheOneUWannaC said:

Emancipation89 said:

I don't know how many surgeries he's done but I think it's a lot less than we think...

I think hair and make up makes huge change... If you look at his face closely and don't look at hair and skin color..there's not much change from 1988 to This Is It....Only Invincible era was a little off...I think...

I couldn't agree more, I'm pretty sure he had very few, I'm thinking 3 or 4. 1 because he broke his nose and it needed the reconstruction. But if you look at the pictures, I can only tell the cleft chin, and it looks like 1 more nose job from 1988 to 2003.

It looks to me like he had [at least] six to seven surgeries on his nose. I say this because you didn't post the one he originally had in '79/'80. He had the first one during the "OTW" era....

Unholyalliance said:

The real question is if he would have been just as popular/successful w/o the sugeries and losing his pigmentation.

Even so, I think that a lot of his face stayed the same it's just that because the nose is such a prominent feature on our faces the fact that it changed made it seem as if he reconstructed his entire face during the years. One great example is that lady from Dirty Dancing. I guess the irony would be that b/c she changed her nose her career kinda suffered because of it. (As far as I know.)

I didn't include that because I knew someone else would [you did, so bravo to you ]. I was just looking at the fact that his look changed so much that I wonder during the rest of his career, had he not changed his appearance, could we still see him doing what he did....

[Edited 5/3/11 17:30pm]

gunner82 said:

Unholyalliance said:

The real question is if he would have been just as popular/successful w/o the sugeries and losing his pigmentation.

Even so, I think that a lot of his face stayed the same it's just that because the nose is such a prominent feature on our faces the fact that it changed made it seem as if he reconstructed his entire face during the years. One great example is that lady from Dirty Dancing. I guess the irony would be that b/c she changed her nose her career kinda suffered because of it. (As far as I know.)

I didn't include that because I knew someone else would [you did, so bravo to you . I was just looking at the fact that his look changed so much that I wonder during the rest of his career, had he not changed his appearance, could we still see him doing what he did....

YES.. because Michael was an innovative artist that changed the industry. Regardless either way he still would have been a legend and very successful. He probably would have been more and his image as far as personal life probably would not have been as tarnish BUT even with all of that Michael was still successful and globally popular.

gunner82 said:

TheOneUWannaC said:

I couldn't agree more, I'm pretty sure he had very few, I'm thinking 3 or 4. 1 because he broke his nose and it needed the reconstruction. But if you look at the pictures, I can only tell the cleft chin, and it looks like 1 more nose job from 1988 to 2003.

It looks to me like he had [at least] six to seven surgeries on his nose. I say this because you didn't post the one he originally had in '79/'80. He had the first one during the "OTW" era....

Yup sounds about right to me!

I know what you mean. History era Michael! Boom! An image comes to your head. 2001 30th anniversary concert MJ! Boom! DX

A lot of artists go for androgynous looks...I think the thing about MJ is that he wanted to look boyish at the same time IMO. Especially after Dangerous era, he looks..not exactly "handsome" but cute and boyish. With lots of makeup on, he can look fierce, vulnerable, wacky, cute...pretty much however he wants to look....Always more extreme than anyone...

Also you know he makes DRAMATIC facial expressions when he dances.. like this

Or even Dangerous, Billie Jean performances, and Smooth Criminal anti-gravity performance where he opens his mouth widely...

That face just goes perfectly with not only the dance moves but his quirkiness. It just makes the entire performance 10 times more dramatic. I mean, I can't imagine Off the Wall era MJ making faces like that lol Not saying he couldn't have pulled it off, but because of the vitiligo and surgeries, somehow he had that extra effect on stage...

1995 @ Diane Sawyer's Prime Time interview he said "I'm an artist. If I wanna put a dot right here...(points at his forehead w/ his finger), or 2 more eyes, right here (points right underneath his eyes)..."

And Lisa's like "He reconstructed himself. He's an artist, he has every right to...(do so)" XD

I kinda got the impression that he doesn't really think plastic surgery is a big deal. He's not necessarily trying to look young or handsome with his surgeries...he had some sort of artistic purpose with it..

Let's face it...I can't imagine this MJ singing Heal the World....XD

[Edited 5/3/11 19:09pm]

gunner82 said:

JoeTyler said:

there's a MJ sticky

Fuck that sticky! Do you see what's posted on there? I'm asking a real question for real responses. Not for a bunch of people always trying to defend. I love MJ & Prince both equally, but I want real thoughts & responses. Not a bunch of defenders & trashtalk!!

lol not true...U haven't seen the willing-to-die-for-MJ fanatics...Some are teenagers and they can be really scary too

I personally got a lot of great info from MJ sticky...fair and logical discussions are going on there most of the times...philosophical discussions too which I think is very interesting...

Emancipation89 said:

gunner82 said:

Fuck that sticky! Do you see what's posted on there? I'm asking a real question for real responses. Not for a bunch of people always trying to defend. I love MJ & Prince both equally, but I want real thoughts & responses. Not a bunch of defenders & trashtalk!!

lol not true...U haven't seen the willing-to-die-for-MJ fanatics...Some are teenagers and they can be really scary too

I personally got a lot of great info from MJ sticky...fair and logical discussions are going on there most of the times...philosophical discussions too which I think is very interesting...

It does have some great info, but I still don't want to get lost in the ooze....

I wondered about this YEARS ago and came to the conclusion that we would have never had Black or White had there been no vitiligo

I remember I was once taking a sociology course about race and this one girl's topic was about how there are dominant beauty standards in the mass media, and the very first thing she brought up was mj and she was going on like an idiot about how he wanted to look white to become more successful and be accepted, and I immediately started chewing her out. I brought up that from a psychological point of view, you have to consider that his father called him names like big nose and that had an impact on him, and that he has a skin disease called vitiligo. And later on, another student said he was already successful, he didn't need to do that, there was no point...I think she meant it in a good way though, cause the presentation seemed very poorly prepared.

I also think of certain looks for certain eras, but I also found myself doing this with Janet Jackson and Madonna, and I'm aware artists like Elton John and David Bowie had image changes too though with MJ it was on a different level. I also really believe that a lot of fans don't realize that sometimes they are attracted to mj of some eras more than others, and sometimes there is a race or gender correlation to it, or it could have to do with when they first saw him.

[Edited 5/3/11 20:27pm]

OK, if you want my honest opinion, this is why Michael's appearance "changed":

• He became a vegetarian/decided not to eat that much (therefore he lost MAD weight)
• Age
• Vitiligo (we'll never know how deep the situation was with him because most of us never had to worry about having a disease that destroyed your skin, it can come gradually or can come quickly, in Michael's case, it came in dosages and got worse over time)
• The burn incident in 1984 forced him to wear wigs/weaves/lacefronts the rest of his natural life

That's how I can explain why his cheeks looked sullen in some years, why his eyes looked bugged out (usually if someone loses weight, the eyes start to widen). Plus with his vitiligo, his nose surgeries became more abstract, therefore that made people believed he had more surgeries than what he had.

Timmy84 said:

OK, if you want my honest opinion, this is why Michael's appearance "changed":

• He became a vegetarian/decided not to eat that much (therefore he lost MAD weight)
• Age
• Vitiligo (we'll never know how deep the situation was with him because most of us never had to worry about having a disease that destroyed your skin, it can come gradually or can come quickly, in Michael's case, it came in dosages and got worse over time)
• The burn incident in 1984 forced him to wear wigs/weaves/lacefronts the rest of his natural life

That's how I can explain why his cheeks looked sullen in some years, why his eyes looked bugged out (usually if someone loses weight, the eyes start to widen). Plus with his vitiligo, his nose surgeries became more abstract, therefore that made people believed he had more surgeries than what he had.

^ THIS!

The 1984 Pepsi incident triggered the vitiligo and lupus to a higher degree. He was already covering up light spots even during the OTW era. Had it never happened, I'm sure his facial features and hair would've been reminiscent of the Thriller video era

Here in Asia, skin lightening is very popular.

I know for a fact that you can go from MJ's original shade to his final shade using the stuff available here. I've seen students do it--they bleached out their original native dark brown color only to look...well, unnatural.

And the problem is that the products containing mercury also cause the skin to appear read and blochy in places, making it appear a bit like vitaligo.

I've seen the websites that show how his face have changed, and his how jawline has changed.

Although I think he did change his jawline, I think it's only happened about once or twice. I think his nose is what has changed the most---and his lips have changed a bit too.

MJ actually fascinates, as does the fans of his who defend the vitaligo argument. And there are even those who claim you can't bleach your skin white--oh yes...you....can. It happens here in Asia all the time. There are over-the-counter drugs that do it here. But again, MJ's ever-changing appearence used to fascinate me. Even his choice of kids to buy astounded me. There's not a lick of MJ in any of those kids ... It's utterly strange that someone who claimed to love all races, bleached his own racial features out of him, then went out and bought white kids. I love Kat William's skit about him on youtube.

Timmy84 said:

OK, if you want my honest opinion, this is why Michael's appearance "changed":

• He became a vegetarian/decided not to eat that much (therefore he lost MAD weight)
• Age
• Vitiligo (we'll never know how deep the situation was with him because most of us never had to worry about having a disease that destroyed your skin, it can come gradually or can come quickly, in Michael's case, it came in dosages and got worse over time)
• The burn incident in 1984 forced him to wear wigs/weaves/lacefronts the rest of his natural life

That's how I can explain why his cheeks looked sullen in some years, why his eyes looked bugged out (usually if someone loses weight, the eyes start to widen). Plus with his vitiligo, his nose surgeries became more abstract, therefore that made people believed he had more surgeries than what he had.

This..

And with that,

SagsWay2low said:

Here in Asia, skin lightening is very popular.

I know for a fact that you can go from MJ's original shade to his final shade using the stuff available here. I've seen students do it--they bleached out their original native dark brown color only to look...well, unnatural.

And the problem is that the products containing mercury also cause the skin to appear read and blochy in places, making it appear a bit like vitaligo.

I've seen the websites that show how his face have changed, and his how jawline has changed.

Although I think he did change his jawline, I think it's only happened about once or twice. I think his nose is what has changed the most---and his lips have changed a bit too.

MJ actually fascinates, as does the fans of his who defend the vitaligo argument. And there are even those who claim you can't bleach your skin white--oh yes...you....can. It happens here in Asia all the time. There are over-the-counter drugs that do it here. But again, MJ's ever-changing appearence used to fascinate me. Even his choice of kids to buy astounded me. There's not a lick of MJ in any of those kids ... It's utterly strange that someone who claimed to love all races, bleached his own racial features out of him, then went out and bought white kids. I love Kat William's skit about him on youtube.

His autopsy report supported the fact that he indeed had vitiligo and lupus.

But hey, you wanna believe your own argument, that's fine.

SagsWay2low said:

Here in Asia, skin lightening is very popular.

I know for a fact that you can go from MJ's original shade to his final shade using the stuff available here. I've seen students do it--they bleached out their original native dark brown color only to look...well, unnatural.

And the problem is that the products containing mercury also cause the skin to appear read and blochy in places, making it appear a bit like vitaligo.

I've seen the websites that show how his face have changed, and his how jawline has changed.

Although I think he did change his jawline, I think it's only happened about once or twice. I think his nose is what has changed the most---and his lips have changed a bit too.

MJ actually fascinates, as does the fans of his who defend the vitaligo argument. And there are even those who claim you can't bleach your skin white--oh yes...you....can. It happens here in Asia all the time. There are over-the-counter drugs that do it here. But again, MJ's ever-changing appearence used to fascinate me. Even his choice of kids to buy astounded me. There's not a lick of MJ in any of those kids ... It's utterly strange that someone who claimed to love all races, bleached his own racial features out of him, then went out and bought white kids. I love Kat William's skit about him on youtube.

http://today.msnbc.msn.co...ay_health/

I was getting bored anyway

SagsWay2low said:

Here in Asia, skin lightening is very popular.

I know for a fact that you can go from MJ's original shade to his final shade using the stuff available here. I've seen students do it--they bleached out their original native dark brown color only to look...well, unnatural.

And the problem is that the products containing mercury also cause the skin to appear read and blochy in places, making it appear a bit like vitaligo.

I've seen the websites that show how his face have changed, and his how jawline has changed.

Although I think he did change his jawline, I think it's only happened about once or twice. I think his nose is what has changed the most---and his lips have changed a bit too.

MJ actually fascinates, as does the fans of his who defend the vitaligo argument. And there are even those who claim you can't bleach your skin white--oh yes...you....can. It happens here in Asia all the time. There are over-the-counter drugs that do it here. But again, MJ's ever-changing appearence used to fascinate me. Even his choice of kids to buy astounded me. There's not a lick of MJ in any of those kids ... It's utterly strange that someone who claimed to love all races, bleached his own racial features out of him, then went out and bought white kids. I love Kat William's skit about him on youtube.

Ok I don't know why people don't argue about these people who are half black and seem to have more caucasian features and just question MJ's kids?

1. Quincy Jones' Daughter

2. Tiger Woods' Son (Kinda reminds me of Blanket lol)

3. Wentworth Miller (from Prison Break!)

4. Ryan Giggs (Manchester United!)

5. Vin Dissel

I'm half Indian and half Vietnamese myself and I'm quite P.A.L.E. even though my parents are both dark! SO THERE!!!XP