Like her, but not in that (legendary) way, I can't relate to young people thinking of people like her and Britney and so on being in that category....

Harlepolis said:

Curtwill1975 said:

I know that since Beyoncé is not liked much in here, but I wouldn't predict the demise of RTW just yet. For one, no video. Secondly, other than a hasty press release on Itunes, no real promo for the song. Finally, the song has been getting spins but not much Airplay because a roll over affect that decreases Audience Impressions after 8 days that could go into the 14 day. But the song has increased in AI in so it looks like the Rollover might be over.

And as for Kelly, I am happy for her. I actually don't like Motivation(too much Auto Tune for my likely) but I understand why it is liked, and actually feel that ballads fit her voice more. I like both of them. So sorry to interrupt this, "I hate Beyoncé and I am glad I am flopping" funfest but just felt the need to interject some reality for this board. Thanks for reading. LOL.

I feel you, I actually used to like Beyonce believe it or not. Had Beyonce's Child albums and her debut(which I still own and love) but after B*Day on, she lost me to the left, to the left.

I don't think folks here would dislike her if everything she released didn't seem so contrived and predictable.

But whether that's true or not, that's a legitimate reason to dislike her though? Or Hate her? Okay, I understand that her stanbase can be a bit over the top(and I am part of it) but at the end of the day, it's music. I don't mind anyone not liking her music, that's what makes the world go around. Not everyone likes Prince either, even on this board, I just don't find why her music makes it justifiable for rejoice in her "failing" if this is failing era for her.

mjscarousal said:

Its really so annoying how people always say your hating a singer just because you give an objective point of view as if EVERYONE has to love everything that is popular and if you dont the person is the one with the problem.. its very immature thinking..

This is the issue with Beyonce in a nutshell which is beyond this board but putting her whole hype in its PROPER perspective:

Beyonce is a descent singer. Out of all the songs she has released as a solo artist she probably has 4 songs tops that are exactly worth anything and she has some good performances BUT she is just very overrated. She is not as talented or as impressive has her mainstream accolades likes to brainwash the public to believe. She has received numerous grammys, awards, recognition for things she is not doing for the music industry and rewarded for lackluster music. Its not so much her talent which I personally feel really is not that special but I guess it is still talent but her overexposure and overration is just hella annoying and tired. There are ALOT of better female singers that are way better and exactly make GOOD music period.

But see, there is where you're wrong. It don't matter, at least to me, as a fan that you don't like her music. But do you remember the discussion that I had with you over her contribution of the compositions of her music and even though I gave you things to try to get to see where I was coming from, you wouldn't even bend away to your point of view(Bey's a thief, she steals songs, etc). This is different from giving constructive criticism on her music and brand as an entertainer period.

And another thing, even though it is your opinion, you shouldn't state it as fact either like this statement: Its really so annoying how people always say your hating a singer just because you give an objective point of view as if EVERYONE has to love everything that is popular and if you dont the person is the one with the problem. That in itself shows arrogance because you assume that someone defending her music is doing it just because they are popular. You don't like her, fine. I am a Jackson stan(as you probably are), and not everyone likes them either. I can deal with that. I love music period, and especially with my faves, I find specific reasons why I am a fan of theirs. Like for example, Stevie Wonder is my fave, I love his lyricism as well as his musicianship, but most aren't him and I am not expecting that. My faves don't have to be the best or considered legends, but I appreciate them all the same.

mjscarousal said:

alphastreet said:

I think Beyonce is very talented and worked hard for her success, but I also think she's overrated at the same time. It may just seem like my preference, but not all her work deserved awards, and if she wants to be a legend, she needs to stop thinking about being one and just make better quality, timeless music. Also, I think she's a good performer for her generation, but put her up against the greats and she would not fit in that category, even though I can see how she has mixed a fusion of the past and present at times.

lol Yea that is just your preference...

See music lovers who really listen to music dont listen to mainstream especially current pop because its mostly about making money and image which is why Beyonce has been so successful.. not because of her talent(Because honestly having a descent voice means nothing if you make horrible music). There are artists that have worked hard just as hard as her and didnt make lack luster music or exploit their bodies to get ahead, Erykah Badu, Adele, Jill Scott, Corinne Bailey these female singers are MUCH more talented and make better music. Also, Music and Performer are two different things. Performances has nothing to do with music and vice versa especially if it involves dancing. It also does not make an artist better.

I'm not trying to bash Beyonce but she will never be a legend. She is not original or innovative. She did not trendset anything or change the music industry in a way that impacted anything. She has not made one classic song. Also, there is nothing special about her or her talent. There are plenty of talents like her now and more to come in the future.. not spetacular. She is just okay for this generation another "it" girl that has passed over her time but nothing by any means legendary. But if you like her thats all that matters.

[Edited 5/4/11 20:24pm]

Some of what you say, I agree, but the thing is I, as a fan, do like Bey's music and as well as her performing. Her harmonic arrangements are some of the best in Pop Entertainment, as far as music goes. Music critics write of them all of the time. Even her new song, Run The World(Girls) which I knew many would criticize in here which I didn't even bother to discuss it in her has great harmonies. How many dance songs are built around harmonic arrangements like her songs are? Not many, if any. That's a big part of her song and her true fans love it. That's one of the reasons why she uses dance songs without much of a melody because it emphasizes her vocal arrangments. The melodies come from that.

And that's why she don't have to be the women who you named which I agree are talented, though I don't feel Corrine Bailey Rae that much. In fact, just to put it out there, they respect her talent too. In fact, Adele said that she's influenced by Beyoncé. And I am saying all of that to say that even if you don't like her, those same talented women that you say are miles and miles above Bey in talent all give her due.

So people talking about her making "timeless" and quality music, is it according to your standards or is you looking at it from an objective pov? For example, I am not a fan of Girls Wanna Have Fun by Cindy Lauper, but the song is timeless, it still gets play even today(I heard on an oldies song, right after Respect). At the end of the day, Bey's music and performing is going to be remembered. She's a big part of the decade of 2000s, like it or not and some people are just going to have to deal with that.

alphastreet said:

I think Beyonce is very talented and worked hard for her success, but I also think she's overrated at the same time. It may just seem like my preference, but not all her work deserved awards, and if she wants to be a legend, she needs to stop thinking about being one and just make better quality, timeless music. Also, I think she's a good performer for her generation, but put her up against the greats and she would not fit in that category, even though I can see how she has mixed a fusion of the past and present at times.

But who says she has to be? She can be a legend without A. Being better than the ones every feel are legends and B. even being compared to them. As I Said, her music and her performing will be remembered, whether people like it or not.

For example, I don't put Janet on the same level as Ella, because she's not as great as her but she's a legend. Her status and what she has done for the industry speaks for itself. One thing I try to do with anything, is see things from another side than how I would percieve them. I am no fan of Madonna's music and performing style at all, but I can see the legacy she has made for herself in entertainment and she's a legend. It is what it is.

just1lousydime said:

The sad part is that she can sing, she knows she can sing, and THE WORLD knows she can sing. Why she ends up clinging to these ridiculous dance beats and cliche lyrics is completely beyond me.

beyonce can't sing, she just hollars and sings loud. The world does not know she can sing, last time i checked a lot of people are annoyed with her voice and over singing.

I just noticed that her and rihanna sound similar.

whitney, mariah, celine, everyone knows they can sing.

alphastreet said:

Loved Destiny's Child but Beyonce was not my favourite until Independent Women, I liked LeToya best. Then I realized how talented she was and was excited for her first solo album. I didn't like Crazy in Love at first and was disappointed by that whole project, only liking Dangerously in Love which I already knew and Naughty Girl, and thought she was way too overexposed and undeserving of the Grammys at the time. Destiny Fulfilled came out and songs like Lose My Breath, Girl and Through With Love were so much better, and Crazy in Love sounded okay to me by then. Check On It was silly, I really felt Beyonce was wasting her talent on unmemorable dance-hip hop songs and thought she would have had a funky sound like Work It Out from Austin Powers 3, or something sophisticated like early Mariah's work. Then Deja Vu came out and I loved the MJ/late 70's funk inspired sound and was enjoying the singles so far. The album sounded just okay to me, but then with the rerelease, I loved the newly added singles, got the album and it flowed really well to me and THEN I felt she was really bringing it and decided to go see her in concert cause I really thought she wouldn't peak again, and it was a great show! Before seeing her, I swore I wouldn't pay big money to see anyone other than janet, madonna or mj, even prince, but it was worth every penny. I liked If I Were a Boy and Singles Ladies too though not as much as songs from the previous album, but bought it anyways and fell in love with the ballads, wayyy more than the fast songs this time. I did love sweet dreams though, since I knew it from the 2007 leak. Heard about the mj tribute at her show and thought what the heck, I'll see her again and I liked it again though it was repetitive to the last show. Can't believe they were calling her the next king of pop being a queen and stuff like that, gosh! But it was great, but now I believe she's really done and I enjoyed her while it lasted. I knew she would fade like Jody or Pebbles or Brandy from the public eye/mainstream.

i know this sounds like hate, but i really hope she flops, have kids and retire forever.

I used to look upto beyonce, i loved everything about her, i wanted to be like her, sing like her, dance, EVERYTHING, of course i never loved her as much as janet but close. Anyways, i can say she is a disappointment, and that is why i find myself always saying negative comments about her, its like she makes people believe she is going to deliver and never does.

Curtwill1975 said:

mjscarousal said:

Its really so annoying how people always say your hating a singer just because you give an objective point of view as if EVERYONE has to love everything that is popular and if you dont the person is the one with the problem.. its very immature thinking..

This is the issue with Beyonce in a nutshell which is beyond this board but putting her whole hype in its PROPER perspective:

Beyonce is a descent singer. Out of all the songs she has released as a solo artist she probably has 4 songs tops that are exactly worth anything and she has some good performances BUT she is just very overrated. She is not as talented or as impressive has her mainstream accolades likes to brainwash the public to believe. She has received numerous grammys, awards, recognition for things she is not doing for the music industry and rewarded for lackluster music. Its not so much her talent which I personally feel really is not that special but I guess it is still talent but her overexposure and overration is just hella annoying and tired. There are ALOT of better female singers that are way better and exactly make GOOD music period.

But see, there is where you're wrong. It don't matter, at least to me, as a fan that you don't like her music. But do you remember the discussion that I had with you over her contribution of the compositions of her music and even though I gave you things to try to get to see where I was coming from, you wouldn't even bend away to your point of view(Bey's a thief, she steals songs, etc). This is different from giving constructive criticism on her music and brand as an entertainer period.

And another thing, even though it is your opinion, you shouldn't state it as fact either like this statement: Its really so annoying how people always say your hating a singer just because you give an objective point of view as if EVERYONE has to love everything that is popular and if you dont the person is the one with the problem. That in itself shows arrogance because you assume that someone defending her music is doing it just because they are popular. You don't like her, fine. I am a Jackson stan(as you probably are), and not everyone likes them either. I can deal with that. I love music period, and especially with my faves, I find specific reasons why I am a fan of theirs. Like for example, Stevie Wonder is my fave, I love his lyricism as well as his musicianship, but most aren't him and I am not expecting that. My faves don't have to be the best or considered legends, but I appreciate them all the same.

I really can not recall ever having a discussion with you on here.

I am very open minded when it comes to music discussions and debates but at the same token YOU have to be as well. Now.. Beyonce has been accussed and has been in and out of court mutiple of times on issues with songwriting credits. Also caught it lies where she has stated she has written certain songs and she has not. Those ARE facts but that has nothing to do with why her music does nothing for me.

That statement does not show arrogance.. It shows how immature people get when they have discussions about artists they like and they can not handle the objective opinions. Since they cant handle it, they automatically say "O your just a hater" or "Stop hating" just very childish because they do not know how to intelligently back their arguement up.

Yes I am a Michael Jackson stan.

I love Stevie Wonder as well... and there are artists that are of a lower caliber that I also like that I think will never be legends like them.. even the female artists that I mention earlier.. will never be legends or as innovative as them but they make great music MUCH better and more talented than Beyonce BUT there not no Michael Jackson jr either lol which is something you fail to realize. It is not about being a legend or making classic material, it is about make GOOD music which Beyonce does not do. The other stuff just support the fact that she is overrated.

You can like Beyonce thats not the issue. The issue is she is just overrated so more than likely this song will probably be a hit even though it is bad. And her music does nothing for me.. I might shake my ass at a club to it but that is about it. I'm not willing to pay money for her music, see her live or listen to it leisurely.. but if you are okay.. I respect that. HOWEVER, when discussions or opinions are stated such as calling artists like Beyonce a legend, claiming certain songs are nice when they are not.. Im not going to hold back my opinion especially if the accusations are ridiculous such as that wack Beyonce song. You spoke your peace, it is respected now respect others opinion on it.

[Edited 5/5/11 15:50pm]

[Edited 5/5/11 15:52pm]

[Edited 5/5/11 15:55pm]

Curtwill1975 said:

mjscarousal said:

lol Yea that is just your preference...

See music lovers who really listen to music dont listen to mainstream especially current pop because its mostly about making money and image which is why Beyonce has been so successful.. not because of her talent(Because honestly having a descent voice means nothing if you make horrible music). There are artists that have worked hard just as hard as her and didnt make lack luster music or exploit their bodies to get ahead, Erykah Badu, Adele, Jill Scott, Corinne Bailey these female singers are MUCH more talented and make better music. Also, Music and Performer are two different things. Performances has nothing to do with music and vice versa especially if it involves dancing. It also does not make an artist better.

I'm not trying to bash Beyonce but she will never be a legend. She is not original or innovative. She did not trendset anything or change the music industry in a way that impacted anything. She has not made one classic song. Also, there is nothing special about her or her talent. There are plenty of talents like her now and more to come in the future.. not spetacular. She is just okay for this generation another "it" girl that has passed over her time but nothing by any means legendary. But if you like her thats all that matters.

[Edited 5/4/11 20:24pm]

Some of what you say, I agree, but the thing is I, as a fan, do like Bey's music and as well as her performing. Her harmonic arrangements are some of the best in Pop Entertainment, as far as music goes. Music critics write of them all of the time. Even her new song, Run The World(Girls) which I knew many would criticize in here which I didn't even bother to discuss it in her has great harmonies. How many dance songs are built around harmonic arrangements like her songs are? Not many, if any. That's a big part of her song and her true fans love it. That's one of the reasons why she uses dance songs without much of a melody because it emphasizes her vocal arrangments. The melodies come from that.

And that's why she don't have to be the women who you named which I agree are talented, though I don't feel Corrine Bailey Rae that much. In fact, just to put it out there, they respect her talent too. In fact, Adele said that she's influenced by Beyoncé. And I am saying all of that to say that even if you don't like her, those same talented women that you say are miles and miles above Bey in talent all give her due.

So people talking about her making "timeless" and quality music, is it according to your standards or is you looking at it from an objective pov? For example, I am not a fan of Girls Wanna Have Fun by Cindy Lauper, but the song is timeless, it still gets play even today(I heard on an oldies song, right after Respect). At the end of the day, Bey's music and performing is going to be remembered. She's a big part of the decade of 2000s, like it or not and some people are just going to have to deal with that.

Right but see the thing is.. I... not being a fan of Beyonce or her music, do not like her music or performing lol... If you do then that is okay.. It is a free country hun, thats not hurting me lol You just need to learn to respect as well as accept others opposing opinions. All that you said is your opinion. Beyonce has not really presented anything new to the game artistically and her music just really sucks..nothing lyrically/artistically engaging about it as well as her performances. All she does is copies off of other performers which makes it boring to me because me being a big MJ, Janet, James, Tina, Nicholas Bros, Dorothy etc.. Ive seen all the entertainers.. and her performances are just OK they do not suck but just not that entertaining to me or as nearly as people make it to be. This coming from a 19 yr old cause I basically grew up with Beyonce but Ive never been a fan. She has never appealed to me or her music.

Well of course you think her music will be remembered, your a fan lol

Sure those fly by hits she had will probably be mentioned as being popular during that period. But do you honestly think 50 years from now people will want to just pop in any of her C.D.s just to listen? I mean at a club or at a party.. that is okay but I dont think it will be a class like Jackson 5 1960's music or Marvin Gaye, there really is not no comparision. And being remembered and calling something a classic is two different things. Beyonce will be remembered as being the most popular act of the 00's decades not for anything groundbreaking or iconic if that is what you are suggesting.

Also I do not know why people are always mentioning that Cindy Lauper song, I have never in my life in all seriousness EVER heard that song play on the radio.. just saying or people talk about it in a classic sense.. just no. It was a popular song of the 80's but thats it. Also, I can not remember not one Beyonce performance that was spetacular or memorable LOL so that is not true at all.

[Edited 5/5/11 16:10pm]

TotalAlisa said:

just1lousydime said:

The sad part is that she can sing, she knows she can sing, and THE WORLD knows she can sing. Why she ends up clinging to these ridiculous dance beats and cliche lyrics is completely beyond me.

beyonce can't sing, she just hollars and sings loud. The world does not know she can sing, last time i checked a lot of people are annoyed with her voice and over singing.

I just noticed that her and rihanna sound similar.

whitney, mariah, celine, everyone knows they can sing.

I don't mind people not liking her her but "Beyonce can't sing?" A lot of people are annoyed with her voice that makes her a bad singer?

Emancipation89 said:

TotalAlisa said:

beyonce can't sing, she just hollars and sings loud. The world does not know she can sing, last time i checked a lot of people are annoyed with her voice and over singing.

I just noticed that her and rihanna sound similar.

whitney, mariah, celine, everyone knows they can sing.

I don't mind people not liking her her but "Beyonce can't sing?" A lot of people are annoyed with her voice that makes her a bad singer?

people wouldn't get annoyed if she could really sing. All she does is over sing, and shout. Im sorry but her voice is just average, I hear black girls everyday off the street who really sing better.

mjscarousal said:

Curtwill1975 said:

Some of what you say, I agree, but the thing is I, as a fan, do like Bey's music and as well as her performing. Her harmonic arrangements are some of the best in Pop Entertainment, as far as music goes. Music critics write of them all of the time. Even her new song, Run The World(Girls) which I knew many would criticize in here which I didn't even bother to discuss it in her has great harmonies. How many dance songs are built around harmonic arrangements like her songs are? Not many, if any. That's a big part of her song and her true fans love it. That's one of the reasons why she uses dance songs without much of a melody because it emphasizes her vocal arrangments. The melodies come from that.

And that's why she don't have to be the women who you named which I agree are talented, though I don't feel Corrine Bailey Rae that much. In fact, just to put it out there, they respect her talent too. In fact, Adele said that she's influenced by Beyoncé. And I am saying all of that to say that even if you don't like her, those same talented women that you say are miles and miles above Bey in talent all give her due.

So people talking about her making "timeless" and quality music, is it according to your standards or is you looking at it from an objective pov? For example, I am not a fan of Girls Wanna Have Fun by Cindy Lauper, but the song is timeless, it still gets play even today(I heard on an oldies song, right after Respect). At the end of the day, Bey's music and performing is going to be remembered. She's a big part of the decade of 2000s, like it or not and some people are just going to have to deal with that.

Right but see the thing is.. I... not being a fan of Beyonce or her music, do not like her music or performing lol... If you do then that is okay.. It is a free country hun, thats not hurting me lol You just need to learn to respect as well as accept others opposing opinions. All that you said is your opinion. Beyonce has not really presented anything new to the game artistically and her music just really sucks..nothing lyrically/artistically engaging about it as well as her performances. All she does is copies off of other performers which makes it boring to me because me being a big MJ, Janet, James, Tina, Nicholas Bros, Dorothy etc.. Ive seen all the entertainers.. and her performances are just OK they do not suck but just not that entertaining to me or as nearly as people make it to be. This coming from a 19 yr old cause I basically grew up with Beyonce but Ive never been a fan. She has never appealed to me or her music.

Well of course you think her music will be remembered, your a fan lol

Sure those fly by hits she had will probably be mentioned as being popular during that period. But do you honestly think 50 years from now people will want to just pop in any of her C.D.s just to listen? I mean at a club or at a party.. that is okay but I dont think it will be a class like Jackson 5 1960's music or Marvin Gaye, there really is not no comparision. And being remembered and calling something a classic is two different things. Beyonce will be remembered as being the most popular act of the 00's decades not for anything groundbreaking or iconic if that is what you are suggesting.

Also I do not know why people are always mentioning that Cindy Lauper song, I have never in my life in all seriousness EVER heard that song play on the radio.. just saying or people talk about it in a classic sense.. just no. It was a popular song of the 80's but thats it. Also, I can not remember not one Beyonce performance that was spetacular or memorable LOL so that is not true at all.

[Edited 5/5/11 16:10pm]

Oh yeah, they play that song from Cindy Lauper. Usually if the song is a big hit, it will get play later on down the line. That's just the way it is. And good point on classic vs remembering a song. I will say that a lot of times, for a song to be considered a classic, at least as far from a pop standpoint, it has to be at the least be remembered. Now there are different kinds of classic, some are classic across the board no matter the genre and some are genre classics.

And as for mentioning club songs, as long as they get play, it don't where they do. Not every club ready song gets play after they first come out. But good discussion and I respect your viewpoints.

It is going OFF in here

OVA

TotalAlisa said:

alphastreet said:

Loved Destiny's Child but Beyonce was not my favourite until Independent Women, I liked LeToya best. Then I realized how talented she was and was excited for her first solo album. I didn't like Crazy in Love at first and was disappointed by that whole project, only liking Dangerously in Love which I already knew and Naughty Girl, and thought she was way too overexposed and undeserving of the Grammys at the time. Destiny Fulfilled came out and songs like Lose My Breath, Girl and Through With Love were so much better, and Crazy in Love sounded okay to me by then. Check On It was silly, I really felt Beyonce was wasting her talent on unmemorable dance-hip hop songs and thought she would have had a funky sound like Work It Out from Austin Powers 3, or something sophisticated like early Mariah's work. Then Deja Vu came out and I loved the MJ/late 70's funk inspired sound and was enjoying the singles so far. The album sounded just okay to me, but then with the rerelease, I loved the newly added singles, got the album and it flowed really well to me and THEN I felt she was really bringing it and decided to go see her in concert cause I really thought she wouldn't peak again, and it was a great show! Before seeing her, I swore I wouldn't pay big money to see anyone other than janet, madonna or mj, even prince, but it was worth every penny. I liked If I Were a Boy and Singles Ladies too though not as much as songs from the previous album, but bought it anyways and fell in love with the ballads, wayyy more than the fast songs this time. I did love sweet dreams though, since I knew it from the 2007 leak. Heard about the mj tribute at her show and thought what the heck, I'll see her again and I liked it again though it was repetitive to the last show. Can't believe they were calling her the next king of pop being a queen and stuff like that, gosh! But it was great, but now I believe she's really done and I enjoyed her while it lasted. I knew she would fade like Jody or Pebbles or Brandy from the public eye/mainstream.

i know this sounds like hate, but i really hope she flops, have kids and retire forever.

I used to look upto beyonce, i loved everything about her, i wanted to be like her, sing like her, dance, EVERYTHING, of course i never loved her as much as janet but close. Anyways, i can say she is a disappointment, and that is why i find myself always saying negative comments about her, its like she makes people believe she is going to deliver and never does.

I don't know if it sounds like hate, that's a strong word, but I do sense some bitterness from a former fan. Not saying it to put you down, but sometimes when artists lead their audience on, or their audience places high expectations on them, they set themselves up for disappointment. Beyonce must not be giving you what you expected, kind of like how I'm not feeling this new era and wasn't feeling the first one. And it did get annoying seeing her everywhere though I do like her, so I just paid no attention to her sometimes. It wasn't cause she sucked, but she was everywhere...and I think her voice is alright though not the voice of the world either, and it doesn't have to be.

[Edited 5/6/11 21:49pm]

TotalAlisa said:

Emancipation89 said:

I don't mind people not liking her her but "Beyonce can't sing?" A lot of people are annoyed with her voice that makes her a bad singer?

people wouldn't get annoyed if she could really sing. All she does is over sing, and shout. Im sorry but her voice is just average, I hear black girls everyday off the street who really sing better.

I don't understand that. I'm not saying Beyonce's the best singer out there but when you make such bold statement like SHE CAN'T SING I just want to hear reasonable reasons. Is it her vibrato that makes her a horrible singer? That "over singing" is completely subjective. I never felt like she was over singing but if some people felt that way, fine. But even out of those people who think she over sings sometimes, I've never seen anyone saying that "she can't sing."

Emancipation89 said:

TotalAlisa said:

people wouldn't get annoyed if she could really sing. All she does is over sing, and shout. Im sorry but her voice is just average, I hear black girls everyday off the street who really sing better.

I don't understand that. I'm not saying Beyonce's the best singer out there but when you make such bold statement like SHE CAN'T SING I just want to hear reasonable reasons. Is it her vibrato that makes her a horrible singer? That "over singing" is completely subjective. I never felt like she was over singing but if some people felt that way, fine. But even out of those people who think she over sings sometimes, I've never seen anyone saying that "she can't sing."

That is objective because Beyonce really has a descent voice and when I say descent I mean a regular singing ability like some random girl off the street or in a choir. Ive heard both and some way better than Beyonce. Majority of the time she isnt really "singing" in her songs, in most of her more POPULAR songs. So if someone says she cant sing, while I think it is a very narrow reason to only soley base that on those popular songs, it is still an arguement one can make. She hardly ever sings ballads and when she does... she does over sing and that technically isnt good singing. I think your right. Saying that she cant sing without valid reasons is a bit ridiculous but alot of people have valid arguements for that claim. I personally think her voice is OK. I think female singers such as Adele and even though I am not a fan Christina Aguilera sing way better and alot of their music material is better to. As far as vocals Beyonce does not suck... She has good vocals but everything about her is just boring and average. Her music is average. Her image is boring. She can't dance. She cant act. She is overexposed. She is overrated. All those things way out more than her singing which is just one thing which is probably why she gets alot of the flack that she does.. she is just overrated .. she should really just retire.

alphastreet said:

TotalAlisa said:

i know this sounds like hate, but i really hope she flops, have kids and retire forever.

I used to look upto beyonce, i loved everything about her, i wanted to be like her, sing like her, dance, EVERYTHING, of course i never loved her as much as janet but close. Anyways, i can say she is a disappointment, and that is why i find myself always saying negative comments about her, its like she makes people believe she is going to deliver and never does.

I don't know if it sounds like hate, that's a strong word, but I do sense some bitterness from a former fan. Not saying it to put you down, but sometimes when artists lead their audience on, or their audience places high expectations on them, they set themselves up for disappointment. Beyonce must not be giving you what you expected, kind of like how I'm not feeling this new era and wasn't feeling the first one. And it did get annoying seeing her everywhere though I do like her, so I just paid no attention to her sometimes. It wasn't cause she sucked, but she was everywhere...and I think her voice is alright though not the voice of the world either, and it doesn't have to be.

[Edited 5/6/11 21:49pm]

believe me i am not offended but bitterness is too strong of a word, beyonce is not on my mind everyday, nor does she affect me like that, I just get on here to waste time.. and pretty much get annoyed with her.

i would never be bitter about beyonce, now if that was janet doing this, I would be BITTER...

Emancipation89 said:

TotalAlisa said:

people wouldn't get annoyed if she could really sing. All she does is over sing, and shout. Im sorry but her voice is just average, I hear black girls everyday off the street who really sing better.

I don't understand that. I'm not saying Beyonce's the best singer out there but when you make such bold statement like SHE CAN'T SING I just want to hear reasonable reasons. Is it her vibrato that makes her a horrible singer? That "over singing" is completely subjective. I never felt like she was over singing but if some people felt that way, fine. But even out of those people who think she over sings sometimes, I've never seen anyone saying that "she can't sing."

im serious when i say this, I can sing just as "well" as beyonce and i don't think i can sing professionally or that great. Her sing abilities are very limited and she has a basic range that average to decent singers have.

its nothing spectacular, and really like i said, if i hadn't heard so many blacks girls be able to sing like beyonce, or out sing her maybe i would think she was a good singer.

[Edited 5/8/11 22:36pm]

[Edited 5/8/11 22:38pm]

She's never impressed me much and still doesn't. Not surprised. She's just the "it" poster pop girl for the moment.

missfee said:

She's never impressed me much and still doesn't. Not surprised. She's just the "it" poster pop girl for the moment.

during her first album i was so in awe of her, I really looked up to beyonce. after that album things went down hill.

Truthfully if beyonce could sing like mariah carey, she would probably be more popular. But she doesn't have the voice, dance or acting abilities that really shine, She is jack of all trades master at none. Which is why so many people really aren't impressed.

Emancipation89 said:

mjscarousel said: She has good vocals but everything about her is just boring and average. Her music is average. Her image is boring. She can't dance. She cant act. She is overexposed. She is overrated. All those things way out more than her singing which is just one thing which is probably why she gets alot of the flack that she does.. she is just overrated .. she should really just retire.------------------------------- Well then, if that's your opinion, I'll accept it. She Can't Dance - is debatable. I personally think most of performers/singers these days are HORRIBLE DANCERS. If you call Beyonce, Shakira, Britney a GREAT DANCER I'd say that's mockery to dancing. The reason why DACING is taken less seriously these days is because everyone tries to DANCE and their fans are going to call them GOOD DANCERS no matter how horrible they are. I do figure skating. Other than professional skaters, I look up to Isadora Duncan, Gene Kelly, MJ...etc the truly "great" dancers. There are not many great dancers because it's not about techinicality. It's about feeling and how you deliver it, choreography, how you develop it, how well it matches with music, how intense it is, how many different emotions can you express in one song through your body...even facial expression counts. So yeah, if you extend it far and say that Beyonce CAN'T DANCE, I do agree to certain extent because I honestly think most of female artists these days can't really deliver (btw Ciara is a better dancer than Beyonce). ------------ But your point of view is interesting. She's overrated in what way? People calling her a legend? I've seen gaga fans calling gaga Mozart of our generation, Eminem fans calling Eminem 'the only hope' for music industry. Britney fans think she's a legend. Fans will say whatever they want. You don't have to agree with that or take it as serious "rating".------ She should just retire? why? You seem to say "she's not good enough, so she should just retire." If you are only going to listen to music that's highly rated by critics, go ahead. But I'm not like you. If I like the music or the video, even though it's considered BAD by most of the public, I like it. It's that simple to me. So far I don't like Beyonce's new songs from her new album. I don't consider her a LEGEND. Her dancing is not great her acting is not that impressive but I still like her. I like her voice, her catchy songs, most of her ballad songs. I also like her new campaign "Move your body" as well. And the list goes on and on. Trust me there are a lot of so called ARTIST that I dislike but I don't go far to say they should retire to their fans. You should know that opinions are opinions and neither you nor I are being "objective" here. I don't care whether you like her or not but why make such strong statement such as SHE SHOULD RETIRE as if it's either going to be helpful for her future or it's something objective? I guess at the end of the day I can't ask you not to say things like "She's overexposed and overrated so she should retire" because well, I doubt that Beyonce will ever give a shit to our opinions on Prince.org, and this website is for personal opinions.-------SORRY ABOUT NO SPACING BETWEEN LINES IT'S MY DAMN IPHONE

[Edited 5/8/11 22:36pm]

[Edited 5/8/11 22:38pm]

Wow that was a rather judgmental statement.. How do you know where my opinion on Beyonce came from? Last time I check, I have listen as well as looked at her performances the SAME AS YOU HAVE. I can easily say the same thing about you and why you like Beyonce. For your information, the music that I listen to is because I LIKE IT and is MY CHOICE. It has nothing to do with ratings, critics, awards, popularity etc.... Also, I dont choose to listen to something because it is constantly SHOVED IN MY FACE 24/7 unlike...... nevermind. My favorite artist of all time is Michael Jackson. I LOVE Michael Jackson and most of the music and entertainers I love are all passed.. ex. Nicholas Brothers, Fred Astair, Gene Kelly, Dorothy Dandrige etc... so when I look someone like Beyonce (just as a performer/dancing wise) Im really not impressed. She technically is not a good dancer and she is not a innovative dancer. It seems all an artist as to do nowadays is go on stage shake their ass do a couple of rehearsed movements and like you said, there labels as a good dancer. Whether Beyonce is a good dancer or not is not debatable. She isnt but her overall shows I guess are entertaining to some most of the time some are people who were not expose to REAL performers like the ones I mentioned so when they look at someone like Beyonce there in awe.. She is boring Ive never been impressed with her.

That Move Ya Body campaign.. I think it is good she is trying to do a good cause but there was NOTHING entertaining about that video. I did not find the choregraphy at all good or entertaining. It was just boring to me. Ive seen a hell of alot of performances and performers and that video was nothing in a category of something I would call spetacular..just saying. But hey if YOU liked it then so be it.. everyone is not going to have the same opinion even though alot of times I feel like Im a alien because I seem to be the only one who really tells the TRUTH LOL

When I said that she should retire that has nothing to do with my opinion on her music because whether she chooses to disappear or constantly overexpose herself is not going to effect me because I dont care for her either way. I think she should retire because it is hurting her popularity. Beyonce is overexposed. It is not good for an artist to constantly do that and Beyonce is overrated. When I say she is overrated I am not solely speaking on claims that she is a legend. I am speaking on the number of awards, recognition and accolades she has received for delivering nothing to music. You have said some objective responces on Beyonce but I honestly can not see if you honestly can call yourself a MJ fan why you wouldnt think she was overrated to. You can like her and all but she is overrated and that is not subjective. She has received alot for things she is not doing for the music industry also for things that has ALREADY been done. I am just tired of it especially when there are more talented artists that make better music that get nothing. Once again not bashing the girl and she is talented vocally but got damn she is very overrated as well as her music.

[Edited 5/9/11 10:30am]

mjscarousal said:

Wow that was a rather judgmental statement.. How do you know where my opinion on Beyonce came from? Last time I check, I have listen as well as looked at her performances the SAME AS YOU HAVE. I can easily say the same thing about you and why you like Beyonce. For your information, the music that I listen to is because I LIKE IT and is MY CHOICE. It has nothing to do with ratings, critics, awards, popularity etc.... Also, I dont choose to listen to something because it is constantly SHOVED IN MY FACE 24/7 unlike...... nevermind. My favorite artist of all time is Michael Jackson. I LOVE Michael Jackson and most of the music and entertainers I love are all passed.. ex. Nicholas Brothers, Fred Astair, Gene Kelly, Dorothy Dandrige etc... so when I look someone like Beyonce (just as a performer/dancing wise) Im really not impressed. She technically is not a good dancer and she is not a innovative dancer. It seems all an artist as to do nowadays is go on stage shake their ass do a couple of rehearsed movements and like you said, there labels as a good dancer. Whether Beyonce is a good dancer or not is not debatable. She isnt but her overall shows I guess are entertaining to some most of the time some are people who were not expose to REAL performers like the ones I mentioned so when they look at someone like Beyonce there in awe.. She is boring Ive never been impressed with her.

That Move Ya Body campaign.. I think it is good she is trying to do a good cause but there was NOTHING entertaining about that video. I did not find the choregraphy at all good or entertaining. It was just boring to me. Ive seen a hell of alot of performances and performers and that video was nothing in a category of something I would call spetacular..just saying. But hey if YOU liked it then so be it.. everyone is not going to have the same opinion even though alot of times I feel like Im a alien because I seem to be the only one who really tells the TRUTH LOL

When I said that she should retire that has nothing to do with my opinion on her music because whether she chooses to disappear or constantly overexpose herself is not going to effect me because I dont care for her either way. I think she should retire because it is hurting her popularity. Beyonce is overexposed. It is not good for an artist to constantly do that and Beyonce is overrated. When I say she is overrated I am not solely speaking on claims that she is a legend. I am speaking on the number of awards, recognition and accolades she has received for delivering nothing to music. You have said some objective responces on Beyonce but I honestly can not see if you honestly can call yourself a MJ fan why you wouldnt think she was overrated to. You can like her and all but she is overrated and that is not subjective. She has received alot for things she is not doing for the music industry also for things that has ALREADY been done. I am just tired of it especially when there are more talented artists that make better music that get nothing. Once again not bashing the girl and she is talented vocally but got damn she is very overrated as well as her music.

[Edited 5/9/11 10:30am]

I can't help but find contradictions in your statement. You have said you don't like Beyonce because her music isn 't impressive, and yet you question if I were a true MJ fan as if it's related. lol It's relative in what way? Because you think all true MJ fans should recognize who's overrated and who's not? I love MJ yes, but when I say I like certain other artists, I really don't care if those artists are truly talented enough not to be considered overrated. Well, to be honest, I don't even care if you or other MJ fans think I'm a "true" Michael fan or not, whatever that means lol. But I'd like to let you know that there are so many different types of MJ fans in the real world with different taste in music whether you like it or not, and not all of them have to have the same mindset as you to be a "sincere fan" Oh and you should also know that when I have discussion with someone about certain entertainer, t I don't give a shit whether that person's MJ fan or not lol You bringing up that true mj fan thing not only made me wonder why you think that has anything to do with this discussion, but also, cracked me up, to be quite honest.

You keep mentioning how overrated she is; if that's how you feel, again, I don't mind. I understand why you can be frustrated with that. But that still doesn't fully explain how you can link that to the fact that you think she should retire. If she's overrated, it's not her fault is it? Especially if you're talking about awards or recognitions. I think it'd make more sense if you were blaming the music industry for that one? Furthermore, I must let you know I never bother to keep up with how many awards she gets because music awards such as Grammy has lost my credit a long time ago.

You have also said one of the reasons why you think she should retire is because she's overexposed. You seem to be saying it's not good for an artist to be overexposed and that is why you think she should retire. Again, you lost me. I can't say I believe you when you said "she should retire because overexposing is not good for her". If you cared about her as an artist, you'd rather say "she should not expose herself for a while and then comeback with real music when she's fully ready." When people say someone should retire, and especially when that someone is as young as Beyonce, I don't believe it's because they are concerned with her career and they are only trying to help her out.

just1lousydime said:

The sad part is that she can sing, she knows she can sing, and THE WORLD knows she can sing. Why she ends up clinging to these ridiculous dance beats and cliche lyrics is completely beyond me.

TotalAlisa said:

Emancipation89 said:

I don't understand that. I'm not saying Beyonce's the best singer out there but when you make such bold statement like SHE CAN'T SING I just want to hear reasonable reasons. Is it her vibrato that makes her a horrible singer? That "over singing" is completely subjective. I never felt like she was over singing but if some people felt that way, fine. But even out of those people who think she over sings sometimes, I've never seen anyone saying that "she can't sing."

im serious when i say this, I can sing just as "well" as beyonce and i don't think i can sing professionally or that great. Her sing abilities are very limited and she has a basic range that average to decent singers have.

its nothing spectacular, and really like i said, if i hadn't heard so many blacks girls be able to sing like beyonce, or out sing her maybe i would think she was a good singer.

So you can sing from the higher 2nd to the lower 6th octave CONSISTENTLY? From lower chest to "head voice"? Really? I WOULD LOVE TO HEAR THIS. Because if you can't, then you should recant that statement.

alphastreet said:

TotalAlisa said:

i know this sounds like hate, but i really hope she flops, have kids and retire forever.

I used to look upto beyonce, i loved everything about her, i wanted to be like her, sing like her, dance, EVERYTHING, of course i never loved her as much as janet but close. Anyways, i can say she is a disappointment, and that is why i find myself always saying negative comments about her, its like she makes people believe she is going to deliver and never does.

I don't know if it sounds like hate, that's a strong word, but I do sense some bitterness from a former fan. Not saying it to put you down, but sometimes when artists lead their audience on, or their audience places high expectations on them, they set themselves up for disappointment. Beyonce must not be giving you what you expected, kind of like how I'm not feeling this new era and wasn't feeling the first one. And it did get annoying seeing her everywhere though I do like her, so I just paid no attention to her sometimes. It wasn't cause she sucked, but she was everywhere...and I think her voice is alright though not the voice of the world either, and it doesn't have to be.

[Edited 5/6/11 21:49pm]

Well, the problem is that a lot of people expect the "Second Coming" from any famous entertainer. Not me. I can appreciate my faves with their strengths and weaknesses. Do I agree that Beyoncé does the best music? No. Does she have the best sounding voice? No. But what she does, she is great at it IMO.

Curtwill1975 said:

TotalAlisa said:

im serious when i say this, I can sing just as "well" as beyonce and i don't think i can sing professionally or that great. Her sing abilities are very limited and she has a basic range that average to decent singers have.

its nothing spectacular, and really like i said, if i hadn't heard so many blacks girls be able to sing like beyonce, or out sing her maybe i would think she was a good singer.

So you can sing from the higher 2nd to the lower 6th octave CONSISTENTLY? From lower chest to "head voice"? Really? I WOULD LOVE TO HEAR THIS. Because if you can't, then you should recant that statement.

if beyonce can do so can I so whatever that is, Yes I can....

I used to sing all her songs, they aren't to difficult for anyone with a decent voice, who actually practices everyday.

TotalAlisa said:

Curtwill1975 said:

So you can sing from the higher 2nd to the lower 6th octave CONSISTENTLY? From lower chest to "head voice"? Really? I WOULD LOVE TO HEAR THIS. Because if you can't, then you should recant that statement.

if beyonce can do so can I so whatever that is, Yes I can....

I used to sing all her songs, they aren't to difficult for anyone with a decent voice, who actually practices everyday.

Okay, that would mean you have great range because Bey goes from the 2nd to the 6th octave in what professional vocal coaches call "Connected Vocal Range". Not using different voice register like using False Voice(women do have falsetto as well as a head voice) or Vocal Fry for you to go lower. If you can sing 3 octaves with your connected vocal range, then you have range and most of the time, that comes with training.

Meaning, can you belt out the C#6 that she does on Emotion or even Scared of Lonely(when she scales up from G#5, B5, and C#6)? Can you do the note that she did on Happy Face which is higher than that?

Bey does 3 octaves consistently when she does albums and tours, but you're right, anyone can sing in a singer's tessitura(comfort zone, where singers normally sing at, which is 2 octaves or less depending on the persona and song) all the time. I can sing Stevie Wonder songs, because we have similar tessitura(I am a Tenor like he is) but I don't do the things he did and I don't have the tone he does. I would never say that I can sing as well as she does.

Emancipation89 said:

mjscarousal said:

Wow that was a rather judgmental statement.. How do you know where my opinion on Beyonce came from? Last time I check, I have listen as well as looked at her performances the SAME AS YOU HAVE. I can easily say the same thing about you and why you like Beyonce. For your information, the music that I listen to is because I LIKE IT and is MY CHOICE. It has nothing to do with ratings, critics, awards, popularity etc.... Also, I dont choose to listen to something because it is constantly SHOVED IN MY FACE 24/7 unlike...... nevermind. My favorite artist of all time is Michael Jackson. I LOVE Michael Jackson and most of the music and entertainers I love are all passed.. ex. Nicholas Brothers, Fred Astair, Gene Kelly, Dorothy Dandrige etc... so when I look someone like Beyonce (just as a performer/dancing wise) Im really not impressed. She technically is not a good dancer and she is not a innovative dancer. It seems all an artist as to do nowadays is go on stage shake their ass do a couple of rehearsed movements and like you said, there labels as a good dancer. Whether Beyonce is a good dancer or not is not debatable. She isnt but her overall shows I guess are entertaining to some most of the time some are people who were not expose to REAL performers like the ones I mentioned so when they look at someone like Beyonce there in awe.. She is boring Ive never been impressed with her.

That Move Ya Body campaign.. I think it is good she is trying to do a good cause but there was NOTHING entertaining about that video. I did not find the choregraphy at all good or entertaining. It was just boring to me. Ive seen a hell of alot of performances and performers and that video was nothing in a category of something I would call spetacular..just saying. But hey if YOU liked it then so be it.. everyone is not going to have the same opinion even though alot of times I feel like Im a alien because I seem to be the only one who really tells the TRUTH LOL

When I said that she should retire that has nothing to do with my opinion on her music because whether she chooses to disappear or constantly overexpose herself is not going to effect me because I dont care for her either way. I think she should retire because it is hurting her popularity. Beyonce is overexposed. It is not good for an artist to constantly do that and Beyonce is overrated. When I say she is overrated I am not solely speaking on claims that she is a legend. I am speaking on the number of awards, recognition and accolades she has received for delivering nothing to music. You have said some objective responces on Beyonce but I honestly can not see if you honestly can call yourself a MJ fan why you wouldnt think she was overrated to. You can like her and all but she is overrated and that is not subjective. She has received alot for things she is not doing for the music industry also for things that has ALREADY been done. I am just tired of it especially when there are more talented artists that make better music that get nothing. Once again not bashing the girl and she is talented vocally but got damn she is very overrated as well as her music.

[Edited 5/9/11 10:30am]

I can't help but find contradictions in your statement. You have said you don't like Beyonce because her music isn 't impressive, and yet you question if I were a true MJ fan as if it's related. lol It's relative in what way? Because you think all true MJ fans should recognize who's overrated and who's not? I love MJ yes, but when I say I like certain other artists, I really don't care if those artists are truly talented enough not to be considered overrated. Well, to be honest, I don't even care if you or other MJ fans think I'm a "true" Michael fan or not, whatever that means lol. But I'd like to let you know that there are so many different types of MJ fans in the real world with different taste in music whether you like it or not, and not all of them have to have the same mindset as you to be a "sincere fan" Oh and you should also know that when I have discussion with someone about certain entertainer, t I don't give a shit whether that person's MJ fan or not lol You bringing up that true mj fan thing not only made me wonder why you think that has anything to do with this discussion, but also, cracked me up, to be quite honest.

You keep mentioning how overrated she is; if that's how you feel, again, I don't mind. I understand why you can be frustrated with that. But that still doesn't fully explain how you can link that to the fact that you think she should retire. If she's overrated, it's not her fault is it? Especially if you're talking about awards or recognitions. I think it'd make more sense if you were blaming the music industry for that one? Furthermore, I must let you know I never bother to keep up with how many awards she gets because music awards such as Grammy has lost my credit a long time ago.

You have also said one of the reasons why you think she should retire is because she's overexposed. You seem to be saying it's not good for an artist to be overexposed and that is why you think she should retire. Again, you lost me. I can't say I believe you when you said "she should retire because overexposing is not good for her". If you cared about her as an artist, you'd rather say "she should not expose herself for a while and then comeback with real music when she's fully ready." When people say someone should retire, and especially when that someone is as young as Beyonce, I don't believe it's because they are concerned with her career and they are only trying to help her out.

Im glad that it cracked you up I did the same when you said the SAME jugemental statement towards me.. So if you want to bring up contradicitons than you definitly have to do a MAN IN THE MIRROR on that one because you have did the same.

I didnt link the fact that she is overrated with why she should retire. If you read closely I broke it down and said that, her OVEREXPOSURE is hurting her popularity and it has.. she needs to take a long ass needed break. Like I said BEFORE, I personally could care less either way because I dont care to keep up with Beyonce.

I realize now that MJ fan statement was not clear at all. What I really meant was regardless of how you feel about Beyonce I can not honestly understand why you can not see why people find her overrated or may not care for her music in mentioning Michael Jackson I was just showing that he was a great artist he was a great POP artist which in todays industry is very rare and he made great music, was extremly talented in other areas as well. While Beyonce will never match that or does not have nearly the same talent.. why should she be excuse for making bad music? Ive notice all the time here anytime someone compares Beyonce to another artists lets say Rihanna for example they always make the arguement that she can sing and Rihanna cant... but SO WHAT? I just do not see how that necessarily makes her better when they both equally make bad music and both of overall material is average. I understand that you are a fan but just trying to get you to see a different view. Ive already seen your view and agree on the vocal aspect but everything else I guess is your opinion. In saying all of this, there are some pop artists that I do like but guess what? They make GOOD music. Popularity, overration etc does not nessarily matter to me neither but speaking on an artist such as Beyonce, most of her music is not good and alot of her success is unworthy. No.. I dont blame Beyonce for that... I blame the music industry but that still is not going to stop me or CHANGES the fact that she IS overrated. I think current artists such as Erykah Badu once again Adele make much better music and their material has been consistent. I also find them to be more talented and there not on a MJ or Stevie Wonder level and I can accept that BUT AT LEAST they make GOOD music. I just feel somtimes I alot of what Beyonce does is excuse because of her vocals which really are not all that impressive in itself...