Spinlight said:

Harlepolis said:

Uh yeah, I was being sarcastic. Both are two faces for the same coin.

And since we can mention misogyny, lets jump on the bandwagon, be selective, beat on everybody's dead horse(hip hop) and villainize all the people associated with it under a "rape culture" tag, all the while ignoring the blatant misogyny that our profession puts out? Yeah, that sounds sincere,,,,and brave too.

Woe is hip hop? Come on now. What's the deal? Hip hop doesn't get a bad rap - it IS the bad rap. I love hip hop as much as the next... fan of hip hop, but I'm not going to lie to myself and pretend it's not completely abusive to gays and women. That would be ridiculous.

Nor do I lie to myself about rock music's tendencies to talk about drug use or country music's tendency to talk about... whatever they talk about.

I'm not about to agree with the term "rape culture" cuz I don't know what she means by that.

Really now?

But nah, I'm not harboring any illusions regarding some of the rotten elements of hip-hop either, but everytime I see somebody from hollywood putting the whole hip-hop culture in one box and throw it in the sea, you'e gonna have to excuse me if I chuckle, because 9 times outta 10, they forget to mention the same dirty junk thats stacking in their own backyard.

NDRU said:

I certainly see where she is coming from, but it's more just a reaction to a certain style than a real understanding of the style. I can't recall snoop & diddy promoting rape.

It's like watching a few minutes of Goodfellas and saying "This director promotes murder, stealing and drug use!"

The real problem with hip hop is not a little bit of rated R content, but the fact that snoop & co changed music so much that now everyone's a hustler, everyone's a pimp...

They made the culture appear one-dimensional, and hip hop has grown large enough that it no longer just reflects the culture, it influences it.

i do see that song 'it ain't no fun' (if the homies can't have none) as glorifying rape in many ways... however, if judd IS going to critique what she deems 'hip hop culture' she has to recognize, as someone else mentioned, country music as having similar qualities. i mean, you can look at rat pack culture... sports culture. most forms of popular culture share some sense of mysogynist qualities.

that said, i think this clip is really funny, because it takes a song i hate with a passion and makes it seem absolutely nonsensical.

allsmutaside said:

MattyJam said:

[Edited 4/8/11 6:48am]

That portion of her writing is well done. But that is also where the bullshit starts, because yeah, pop and rock and roll defined cultures don't sexualize women at all. They spend their every waking moments promoting equality and love between people of all races, genders and sexual orientations.

Spin - Downplaying the intense misogyny of our culture at large would be more foolish. And honing in on "hip hop" culture as she is doing prevents accurate hanging of a bigger hat on the rack that is sexual abuse. Hip hop definitions of women and how our culture relates to them are only as they are because our dominant culture allows and promotes that angle.

yes, yes... and yes.

Yea rap pretty much sux. I like the beats but most of the lyrics are pure shit. Some rappers do have merrit and are real artist but for the most part it just is an empty form of music. Back in like '92 I was 11. The Chronic came out and I got it, cuz I was really into hip hop at that point. I blame young age. One song on there Dre and Snoop rap about beating down white folks and how they hate white people. FUCK EM. I quickly left the hip hop circle. I do like PE. They had some good political views.

I took a shot of cocaine and I shot my woman down
I went right home and I went to bed I stuck that lovin' 44 beneath my head

Got up next mornin' and I grabbed that gun took a shot of cocaine and away I run
Made a good run but I run too slow they overtook me down in Juarez Mexico

Late in the hot joints takin' the pills in walked the sheriff from Jericho Hill
He said Willy Lee your name is not Jack Brown
You're the dirty hack that shot your woman down
Said yes oh yes my name is Willy Lee if you've got the warrant just aread it to me
Shot her down because she made me slow
I thought I was her daddy but she had five more

Johnny Cash

You were saying, Ashley?

Jay, did you see the OKP thread? Godness gracious

This is what questlove twittered: http://twitter.com/questl...481094145#

Spinlight said:

allsmutaside said:

Spin - Downplaying the intense misogyny of our culture at large would be more foolish. And honing in on "hip hop" culture as she is doing prevents accurate hanging of a bigger hat on the rack that is sexual abuse. Hip hop definitions of women and how our culture relates to them are only as they are because our dominant culture allows and promotes that angle.

Where is the implication that hip hop is the only abusive music?? It's not. And our culture promotes that stuff because it's there. It feeds itself. Why? Because of the socioeconomic side of it. What came first, the chicken or the egg?

Wrong. Our culture promotes that stuff because our culture likes that stuff. Sex sells, in every aspect. Always has, always will.

MickyDolenz said:

Her sister and mother sing country music, which is not exactly holy and pure or always positive to women.

Eeeh, really? The genre is filled with massively popular, famous and wealthy female performers and has been for the last forty years (at least). Also, the women in country music write and sing about the same subjects the men do. Beyond that, many of the songs that the men are performing were written by women, or by men and women writing together. I don't think your comment could be any farther from the truth, actually.

i agree that singing about rape should not be tolerated. But sex? Dont female singers sing about sex too? Dont rihanna and other female singers sing about penis size? So what in the world is wrong with a man singing about having sex with a woman he likes? I dont find singing about sex "sexist" at all. Its something humans desire, that includes both men and women. If women can sing about it, i dont see any reason men shouldnt.

hhhhdmt said:

i agree that singing about rape should not be tolerated. But sex? Dont female singers sing about sex too? Dont rihanna and other female singers sing about penis size? So what in the world is wrong with a man singing about having sex with a woman he likes? I dont find singing about sex "sexist" at all. Its something humans desire, that includes both men and women. If women can sing about it, i dont see any reason men shouldnt.

Its the choice of words, the way in which they're used, the situations women are put in and the behavior that is encouraged (and some would say taught) in some songs, by some artists, that I believe does deserve to be questioned. Otherwise, I agree with you completely.

I'd also like to point out that Ashley had the freedom to say whatever she wanted on this topic and I think that's great. If its something she feels strongly about she should do more writing, lecturing and discussing in that regard. But for better or worse, Ashley shares those freedom of speech rights with the very same artists she's speaking against.

Lastly, and I realize its kind of become a pointless argument, but not all hip-hop is about the topics in question here. Not all hip-hop contains cursing, let alone the hard core use of racial epithets, misogynistic insults and anti-gay hate speech.

HatrinaHaterwitz said:

Spinlight said:

Where is the implication that hip hop is the only abusive music?? It's not. And our culture promotes that stuff because it's there. It feeds itself. Why? Because of the socioeconomic side of it. What came first, the chicken or the egg?

Wrong. Our culture promotes that stuff because our culture likes that stuff. Sex sells, in every aspect. Always has, always will.

What the hell is your point? You are one aggressive lady. Stop defending hip hop - they are big boys, they can handle themselves. The truth is that, regardless of what happens in other genres of music, its inexcusable to talk about a woman like that. Period. There is no question about it. At all. If you speak that way to a woman, you deserve whatever hell comes your way.

No one is absolving ANYONE here. But the article IS taken out of context. Furthermore, other artists support YouthAids and none have reputations for violent imagery (as in murder, rape, running a train on a girl, "bitch, shut your trap", or vivid brutal imagery).

http://www.looktothestars...ights-aids

In fact, it is quite the opposite with most if not all of them respected in their fields without the clever usage of "reality"... Could you dissect some of those people? Absolutely. However, none of them have used violence, misogyny, bigotry, racism, or promiscuity as primary tools for advancement in their career.

The rappers Judd referred to, Snoop and Puff, have both written some pretty vulgar shit about women. Furthermore, Puff has PRODUCED countless tracks that depict women as whores. Not some women. All women. Cum buckets. Little more. Now, with that knowledge, the comments can be taken in real context.

Nobody is acting like its a best-kept-secret that the fantasies you see in Hollywood movies sometimes include violence and sexual objectification. This, our culture surely likes because it has been spoonfed to them since they were babies. If we were to spoonfeed children respect for women, perhaps it would make more sense to NOT treat women this way or write about them this way. To say "Wrong" about a socioeconomic effect is to snatch the words out of the mouthes of the rappers who comment on their drug dealing days and to put YOUR OWN definitions in their place. You ain't a rapper. Their lyrics are on the sheets. If they are abusive towards people, they should get namechecked. And unfortunately, I am sure Ashley fuckin' Judd isn't hip to every new rapper who earns money calling your daughters sluts.

But that isn't even the point.

[Edited 4/9/11 6:04am]

Listen, lets keep in real 100 for a moment, Ashley Judd or anybody else can talk about rap being about misogyny (disrespect of women) all they want, if that's how you feel then it's whatever, plus she's a decade or two behind anyway...

But, she brings up P Diddy and Snoop, who for the record has never promoted rape in their records, is what I take issue with. I haven't read her book but she put these dudes names on blast.

Yet she neglected to mention the one rapper who has blatantly promoted rape, abuse, and torture of women in his lyrics, be it parody or not...

Frankly I get sick and tired of other rappers getting thrown under the bus, yet this dude goes under the radar all in the name of art. "Oh, his lyrics aren't real, it's fantasy." or "He's just making jokes." Fuck that, if you want to hate on hip-hop, do that, but don't leave Eminem out of that conversation, and bring up Diddy of all folks who's not really a rapper because your argument won't have any validity.

And no this isn't a racial thing because Oprah's ass did the same thing trying to throw Ludacris under the bus awhile back.

[Edited 4/9/11 7:01am]

You're dreaming if you think Eminem has escaped scrutiny.

Harlepolis said:

I took a shot of cocaine and I shot my woman down
I went right home and I went to bed I stuck that lovin' 44 beneath my head

Got up next mornin' and I grabbed that gun took a shot of cocaine and away I run
Made a good run but I run too slow they overtook me down in Juarez Mexico

Late in the hot joints takin' the pills in walked the sheriff from Jericho Hill
He said Willy Lee your name is not Jack Brown
You're the dirty hack that shot your woman down
Said yes oh yes my name is Willy Lee if you've got the warrant just aread it to me
Shot her down because she made me slow
I thought I was her daddy but she had five more

Johnny Cash

You were saying, Ashley?

You quote a song from 1947? Really? The discussion is about the current onfluence of music on culture. By the way, what is the ending to that song? The guy goes to prison and admonisishes the listeners "Come all you hypes and listen unto me, Just lay off that whiskey and let that cocaine be." It is an anti-drug song.

Spinlight said:

You're dreaming if you think Eminem has escaped scrutiny.

Truth be told, his name should be the only one called when talking about when folks want to criticize hip-hop promoting rape and violence against women, point blank.

The other rappers (especially back in the day) just talk about not marrying hoes (btw real dudes know the difference between good women and hoes), just rent them out, strap up, and stop catching feelings for them. That's not even misogyny, that's just pure game.

I came up in the real hip-hop era of the 90s when conservative folks were going hard against hip-hop, I don't even listen to these new dudes.

thatruth said:

Listen, lets keep in real 100 for a moment, Ashley Judd or anybody else can talk about rap being about misogyny (disrespect of women) all they want, if that's how you feel then it's whatever, plus she's a decade or two behind anyway...

But, she brings up P Diddy and Snoop, who for the record has never promoted rape in their records, is what I take issue with. I haven't read her book but she put these dudes names on blast.

Yet she neglected to mention the one rapper who has blatantly promoted rape, abuse, and torture of women in his lyrics, be it parody or not...

Frankly I get sick and tired of other rappers getting thrown under the bus, yet this dude goes under the radar all in the name of art. "Oh, his lyrics aren't real, it's fantasy." or "He's just making jokes." Fuck that, if you want to hate on hip-hop, do that, but don't leave Eminem out of that conversation, and bring up Diddy of all folks who's not really a rapper because your argument won't have any validity.

And no this isn't a racial thing because Oprah's ass did the same thing trying to throw Ludacris under the bus awhile back.

[Edited 4/9/11 7:01am]

Oh, I don't think Em much escapes scrutiny. If anything, he actively courts it with intentionally schlocky material. When/if his name isn't mentioned, then, it's not because he gets a pass; it's because he's dismissed as a socially irrelevant, attention-craving b.u.s.t.e.r.

I think Judd called out Snoop and Diddy because those were the two specifically with whom she'd be working.

[Edited 4/9/11 11:25am]

A few thoughts and a conclusion:

1. Who gave Ashley these words to write? “Regular” people would not write in that way. Some of this reads like something a psychologist or someone in that field might write.
2. Ashley is American but the spelling of some of the words is very Un-American, e.g. the letter S being used in place of Z.
3. The part where she writes “most rap and hip-hop music” is interesting. The fact that she knows that there is some hip-hop music that’s not exactly rap, i.e. Mary J. Blige is the”Queen of Hip-Hop Soul” but she does not actually rap. Is Ashley really so into Hip-Hop that she would know this?
4. I concluded that if those are actually excerpts from her book then she did not write this book and may not have even read it. And the real author saw an opportunity to spread his or her own agenda under Ashley’s name.

IMO.......

I wouldn't care if it was a group of satanists shitting on shit hop, just as long as somebody does. It's waaaaaaay past time for that bullshit to die and I'm all for anybody shitting on. Hell, the more the merrier.

Shaolin325 said:

A few thoughts and a conclusion:

1. Who gave Ashley these words to write? “Regular” people would not write in that way. Some of this reads like something a psychologist or someone in that field might write.
2. Ashley is American but the spelling of some of the words is very Un-American, e.g. the letter S being used in place of Z.
3. The part where she writes “most rap and hip-hop music” is interesting. The fact that she knows that there is some hip-hop music that’s not exactly rap, i.e. Mary J. Blige is the”Queen of Hip-Hop Soul” but she does not actually rap. Is Ashley really so into Hip-Hop that she would know this?
4. I concluded that if those are actually excerpts from her book then she did not write this book and may not have even read it. And the real author saw an opportunity to spread his or her own agenda under Ashley’s name.

IMO.......

Neither agreeing nor disagreeing, but have you considered a career in literary higher criticism? You're good.

Cerebus said:

MickyDolenz said:

Her sister and mother sing country music, which is not exactly holy and pure or always positive to women.

Eeeh, really? The genre is filled with massively popular, famous and wealthy female performers and has been for the last forty years (at least). Also, the women in country music write and sing about the same subjects the men do. Beyond that, many of the songs that the men are performing were written by women, or by men and women writing together. I don't think your comment could be any farther from the truth, actually.

So you're saying every single country song ever recorded is positive to women (or men). You can't say that about any genre. Also, just because a woman writes or sings a song doesn't means that it is pro-woman.

MickyDolenz said:

Cerebus said:

Eeeh, really? The genre is filled with massively popular, famous and wealthy female performers and has been for the last forty years (at least). Also, the women in country music write and sing about the same subjects the men do. Beyond that, many of the songs that the men are performing were written by women, or by men and women writing together. I don't think your comment could be any farther from the truth, actually.

So you're saying every single country song ever recorded is positive to women (or men). You can't say that about any genre. Also, just because a woman writes or sings a song doesn't means that it is pro-woman.

Look brother, I'm not gonna get into this with you. You stated that country music is "not exactly holy and pure or always positive to women". That statement makes NO SENSE in general, but especially in comparison to hip-hop. If you can write me up a list of country songs nine miles long where women are called bitches and hoes, shared with their rodeo homies and any other number of other belittling and desparaging comments are heaped upon them, including every aspect of their bodies and the casual discussion of rape, then I'll start paying attention to your point. Seriously, don't just drop your opinion, back it up with some facts.

Country music has never been degrading towards women, so this backpedaling spin job about "every single country song" or "any genre" is not going to cut it. Women are, and have been, embraced in the country music industry (they are not and never have been in hip-hop). Their biggest star right now (a then teenage GIRL) garnered the support of enough people to make Kanye West apologize for two years after he jumped up in her party. More country songs are about love, usually of a woman, than anything else by far. The rest of them are about beer, partying, patriotism, rodeos, dogs, trucks, cars, hats, losing any number of those things (including love), or getting them back. I've been intimately involved with the content of country music since before I was out of the crib. You are factually incorrect with this comparison.

^^^I didn't say country music songs are negative to women in general, but that they are not always positive, so you must have not read the comment correctly. As far as being "holy", it's not generally religious in nature (although there are gospel country songs), so what's the problem with that comment? I listen to country music, so just like any other music, there is positive and negative songs in it. I'm only talking about song topics, my comment didn't say anything about the difference in how women performers are accepted in the country and rap fields, which has nothing to to with Ashley's comment anyway. I don't listen to the hip hop Ashley's talking about, and I didn't deny it exists. My point is that many genres have positive and negative topics. It's not even what she said really, but how she said it. If she said "some hip hop" or "gangsta rap", then that's one thing, but this article makes it sounds that she is saying all rap is bad. That's generallization. There's plenty of hip hop/rap that's not about women or sex at all. Most early hip hop was just party music. It's like years ago people complaining in the early 1990's about some rap being violent, but not Chuck Norris, Charles Bronson, or Arnold Schwarzenegger movies. The whole media sexualizes women, not just hip hop, and it did so long before there was rap music. Ashley's in the acting field, and it's no secret that some actresses (and actors) got into movies/TV by the "casting couch".

[Edited 4/9/11 12:19pm]

Harlepolis said:

I took a shot of cocaine and I shot my woman down
I went right home and I went to bed I stuck that lovin' 44 beneath my head

Got up next mornin' and I grabbed that gun took a shot of cocaine and away I run
Made a good run but I run too slow they overtook me down in Juarez Mexico

Late in the hot joints takin' the pills in walked the sheriff from Jericho Hill
He said Willy Lee your name is not Jack Brown
You're the dirty hack that shot your woman down
Said yes oh yes my name is Willy Lee if you've got the warrant just aread it to me
Shot her down because she made me slow
I thought I was her daddy but she had five more

Johnny Cash

You were saying, Ashley?

See there Harle, I've been telling people for years that Johnny Cash was definitely gangsta with his brand of country songs.

thatruth said:

Listen, lets keep in real 100 for a moment, Ashley Judd or anybody else can talk about rap being about misogyny (disrespect of women) all they want, if that's how you feel then it's whatever, plus she's a decade or two behind anyway...

But, she brings up P Diddy and Snoop, who for the record has never promoted rape in their records, is what I take issue with. I haven't read her book but she put these dudes names on blast.

Yet she neglected to mention the one rapper who has blatantly promoted rape, abuse, and torture of women in his lyrics, be it parody or not...

Frankly I get sick and tired of other rappers getting thrown under the bus, yet this dude goes under the radar all in the name of art. "Oh, his lyrics aren't real, it's fantasy." or "He's just making jokes." Fuck that, if you want to hate on hip-hop, do that, but don't leave Eminem out of that conversation, and bring up Diddy of all folks who's not really a rapper because your argument won't have any validity.

And no this isn't a racial thing because Oprah's ass did the same thing trying to throw Ludacris under the bus awhile back.

[Edited 4/9/11 7:01am]

Excuse you, but I was one of THE very first people to speak out against Eminem because of that track Kill You, a song where he admitted (parady or otherwise) that he wanted to murder his own biological mother.

leonche64 said:

Harlepolis said:

I took a shot of cocaine and I shot my woman down
I went right home and I went to bed I stuck that lovin' 44 beneath my head

Got up next mornin' and I grabbed that gun took a shot of cocaine and away I run
Made a good run but I run too slow they overtook me down in Juarez Mexico

Late in the hot joints takin' the pills in walked the sheriff from Jericho Hill
He said Willy Lee your name is not Jack Brown
You're the dirty hack that shot your woman down
Said yes oh yes my name is Willy Lee if you've got the warrant just aread it to me
Shot her down because she made me slow
I thought I was her daddy but she had five more

Johnny Cash

You were saying, Ashley?

You quote a song from 1947? Really? The discussion is about the current onfluence of music on culture. By the way, what is the ending to that song? The guy goes to prison and admonisishes the listeners "Come all you hypes and listen unto me, Just lay off that whiskey and let that cocaine be." It is an anti-drug song.

Leonche, you're totally missing Harle's point. Hip-hop/rap isn't THE only musical gerne that is guilty for promoting negativity against women. You can also find negativity in rock/metal, country (especially the outlaw era), & the blues.

SoulAlive said:

She may have a point but...I don't know.....at this point,it seems a little too late to be dissing hip-hop.Yes,much of that music is misogynist and sexist but who really cares anymore? Her argument is soooooo 1988 (lol).If you don't like something,just don't listen to it.

I'm right with ya, Soul. Hers is a crusade that might have happened in 1988, not 2011.

Spinlight said:

HatrinaHaterwitz said:

Wrong. Our culture promotes that stuff because our culture likes that stuff. Sex sells, in every aspect. Always has, always will.

What the hell is your point? You are one aggressive lady. Stop defending hip hop - they are big boys, they can handle themselves. The truth is that, regardless of what happens in other genres of music, its inexcusable to talk about a woman like that. Period. There is no question about it. At all. If you speak that way to a woman, you deserve whatever hell comes your way.

No one is absolving ANYONE here. But the article IS taken out of context. Furthermore, other artists support YouthAids and none have reputations for violent imagery (as in murder, rape, running a train on a girl, "bitch, shut your trap", or vivid brutal imagery).

In fact, it is quite the opposite with most if not all of them respected in their fields without the clever usage of "reality"... Could you dissect some of those people? Absolutely. However, none of them have used violence, misogyny, bigotry, racism, or promiscuity as primary tools for advancement in their career.

The rappers Judd referred to, Snoop and Puff, have both written some pretty vulgar shit about women. Furthermore, Puff has PRODUCED countless tracks that depict women as whores. Not some women. All women. Cum buckets. Little more. Now, with that knowledge, the comments can be taken in real context.

Nobody is acting like its a best-kept-secret that the fantasies you see in Hollywood movies sometimes include violence and sexual objectification. This, our culture surely likes because it has been spoonfed to them since they were babies. If we were to spoonfeed children respect for women, perhaps it would make more sense to NOT treat women this way or write about them this way. To say "Wrong" about a socioeconomic effect is to snatch the words out of the mouthes of the rappers who comment on their drug dealing days and to put YOUR OWN definitions in their place. You ain't a rapper. Their lyrics are on the sheets. If they are abusive towards people, they should get namechecked. And unfortunately, I am sure Ashley fuckin' Judd isn't hip to every new rapper who earns money calling your daughters sluts.

But that isn't even the point.

[Edited 4/9/11 6:04am]

Yes, I am one aggressive lady. You've got that part right!

The reason being is I grew up in Detroit in the '70's and '80's. Around thugs, gangstas, pimps, prostitutes, drug addicts, drug dealers, wife abusers, child abusers, etc. I also grew up around doctors, nurses, lawyers, judges, politicians, activists, business owners, singers, musicians, etc. You name it and more likely than not...I've witnessed it...first hand!

I have not and I am not defending Hip Hop because I don't have to. Misogyny in music and misogyny period...did not suddenly begin when Hip Hop came onto the scene.

What I'm saying is...if Ashley Judd and anybody else...really has a problem with the misogyny, degradation and blatant disrespect of women that has infected our society...the fight isn't with P Diddy (Who I wouldn't spit on to help, if his bitch ass burst into flames, right in front of me!) nor Snoop Dogg.

The fight...however...is with the wealthy motherfuckers that write their checks...to provide it!

Those are the same motherfuckers that tried very hard to beat and defeat Hip Hop from the late '80's to the late '90's! It wasn't until after they "got rid of" Tupac and Biggie, that they finally realized that they just were not going to be able to do that!

So they did the next best thing. They bought it! By pumping obscene amounts of money into it and crafting it, into just exactly...what they wanted it to be!

My aggressive self is more than ready for the fight! However, fighting the symptoms...is pointless...unless you're ready to tackle the disease!

HatrinaHaterwitz said:

Spinlight said:

What the hell is your point? You are one aggressive lady. Stop defending hip hop - they are big boys, they can handle themselves. The truth is that, regardless of what happens in other genres of music, its inexcusable to talk about a woman like that. Period. There is no question about it. At all. If you speak that way to a woman, you deserve whatever hell comes your way.

No one is absolving ANYONE here. But the article IS taken out of context. Furthermore, other artists support YouthAids and none have reputations for violent imagery (as in murder, rape, running a train on a girl, "bitch, shut your trap", or vivid brutal imagery).

In fact, it is quite the opposite with most if not all of them respected in their fields without the clever usage of "reality"... Could you dissect some of those people? Absolutely. However, none of them have used violence, misogyny, bigotry, racism, or promiscuity as primary tools for advancement in their career.

The rappers Judd referred to, Snoop and Puff, have both written some pretty vulgar shit about women. Furthermore, Puff has PRODUCED countless tracks that depict women as whores. Not some women. All women. Cum buckets. Little more. Now, with that knowledge, the comments can be taken in real context.

Nobody is acting like its a best-kept-secret that the fantasies you see in Hollywood movies sometimes include violence and sexual objectification. This, our culture surely likes because it has been spoonfed to them since they were babies. If we were to spoonfeed children respect for women, perhaps it would make more sense to NOT treat women this way or write about them this way. To say "Wrong" about a socioeconomic effect is to snatch the words out of the mouthes of the rappers who comment on their drug dealing days and to put YOUR OWN definitions in their place. You ain't a rapper. Their lyrics are on the sheets. If they are abusive towards people, they should get namechecked. And unfortunately, I am sure Ashley fuckin' Judd isn't hip to every new rapper who earns money calling your daughters sluts.

But that isn't even the point.

[Edited 4/9/11 6:04am]

Yes, I am one aggressive lady. You've got that part right!

The reason being is I grew up in Detroit in the '70's and '80's. Around thugs, gangstas, pimps, prostitutes, drug addicts, drug dealers, wife abusers, child abusers, etc. I also grew up around doctors, nurses, lawyers, judges, politicians, activists, business owners, singers, musicians, etc. You name it and more likely than not...I've witnessed it...first hand!

I have not and I am not defending Hip Hop because I don't have to. Misogyny in music and misogyny period...did not suddenly begin when Hip Hop came onto the scene.

What I'm saying is...if Ashley Judd and anybody else...really has a problem with the misogyny, degradation and blatant disrespect of women that has infected our society...the fight isn't with P Diddy (Who I wouldn't spit on to help, if his bitch ass burst into flames, right in front of me!) nor Snoop Dogg.

The fight...however...is with the wealthy motherfuckers that write their checks...to provide it!

Those are the same motherfuckers that tried very hard to beat and defeat Hip Hop from the late '80's to the late '90's! It wasn't until after they "got rid of" Tupac and Biggie, that they finally realized that they just were not going to be able to do that!

So they did the next best thing. They bought it! By pumping obscene amounts of money into it and crafting it, into just exactly...what they wanted it to be!

My aggressive self is more than ready for the fight! However, fighting the symptoms...is pointless...unless you're ready to tackle the disease!

Man, you make it really difficult to disagree with you. I vibe with your whole post and what you are saying is true, but I think THIS thread is out of context. I don't think her comments were given their proper attention. I don't believe she is prescribing anything, actually. I simply think she was commenting on how those 2 people, amongst the others who support YouthAids, raised questions in her mind given their... Histories.

I do think that, if taken out of context, it can APPEAR she is admonishing ONLY hip hop. Specifically, only black hip hop. (Truthfully, why DIDN'T she say Eminem given his words are way more vicious than Snoop's or Puff's AND he outsells them by a truckload.) But as a talking point, hip hop's contribution to misogyny is undeniable. Is there anything productive that can come out of acknowledging that? Maybe. But it doesn't preclude anyone from mentioning how misogynistic other aspects of entertainment are.

I simply think acknowledging the existence of the symptom isn't even intended to resolve the ailment. It's simply that - acknowledging it.

I remember Eminem taking A LOT of heat back in his heyday , he’s white but he has had boycotts etc against him. Not really now because he doesn’t rap about those things anymore.

I'll remember the next time a Black boy or man gets his ass kicked by the local PD, to mention this is soooooooooooo 1991 Rodney King. What's the BIG DEAL?

Are you kidding me? The double speak, the moral relativism, and the out & out hyporcrisy about this subject on this board and really everywhere else, never ceases to amaze me.

When is it out of fashion to speak up and out about people being disrespected, insulted, and violated? When? Words do have power and they have meaning: Way before people are attacked, strung up by the lynch mob, beaten, rounded up and gassed, raped, shot in the back of the head, or tortured, they're demonized and portrayed as less than human. Of all people I'd think Black people should know and would know something about this. Wow, I guess this is different.

But you know... woman are amongst the last group of human beings for which being disrespected & insulted is suppose to be taken in stride. Ms. Judd's views on hip hop, P Diddy, and Snoop are spot on.

I'll leave it at that . . . .