MattyJam said:

bboy87 said:

She continues: "I believe that the social construction of gender – the cultural beliefs and practices that divide the sexes and institutionalise and normalise the unequal treatment of girls and women, privilege the interests of boys and men, and, most nefariously, incessantly sexualise girls and women – is the root cause of poverty and suffering around the world.”

[Edited 4/8/11 6:48am]

That portion of her writing is well done. But that is also where the bullshit starts, because yeah, pop and rock and roll defined cultures don't sexualize women at all. They spend their every waking moments promoting equality and love between people of all races, genders and sexual orientations.

Spin - Downplaying the intense misogyny of our culture at large would be more foolish. And honing in on "hip hop" culture as she is doing prevents accurate hanging of a bigger hat on the rack that is sexual abuse. Hip hop definitions of women and how our culture relates to them are only as they are because our dominant culture allows and promotes that angle.

My problem with what she said is saying "most rap and hip hop music", making it an inaccurate generalization. Maybe it's the hip hop that she's been exposed to, but to make such a blanket statement could be considered ignorant

Does hip hop have misogyny? yes but not all or most. If you look at what's popular right now, it's dance/hip hop, not the "gangsta rap" of the early 90s

bboy87 said:

My problem with what she said is saying "most rap and hip hop music", making it an inaccurate generalization. Maybe it's the hip hop that she's been exposed to, but to make such a blanket statement could be considered ignorant

Does hip hop have misogyny? yes but not all or most. If you look at what's popular right now, it's dance/hip hop, not the "gangsta rap" of the early 90s

even Tipper Gore focused on a single song as an example, she did not say "pop music is shameful!"

Spinlight said:

Might I remind y'all that a song about a woman only wanting to (and being good for) suck some dick was a #1 song ("Lollipop" by Lil Wayne) and there was also a song about shooting cum all over a ho's back w/ that Soldier Boy song "Superman" or w/e.

Downplaying the intense misogyny of the hip hop culture is foolish, imo...

Downplaying the intense misogyny in the music industry as a whole is foolish. Blaming Hip Hop for it is down right stupid!

HatrinaHaterwitz said:

Spinlight said:

Might I remind y'all that a song about a woman only wanting to (and being good for) suck some dick was a #1 song ("Lollipop" by Lil Wayne) and there was also a song about shooting cum all over a ho's back w/ that Soldier Boy song "Superman" or w/e.

Downplaying the intense misogyny of the hip hop culture is foolish, imo...

Downplaying the intense misogyny in the music industry as a whole is foolish. Blaming Hip Hop for it is down right stupid!

But isn't the topic Hip Hop?

Spinlight said:

HatrinaHaterwitz said:

Downplaying the intense misogyny in the music industry as a whole is foolish. Blaming Hip Hop for it is down right stupid!

But isn't the topic Hip Hop?

No. The topic is Ashley Judd not knowing what she's talking about.

NDRU said:

bboy87 said:

My problem with what she said is saying "most rap and hip hop music", making it an inaccurate generalization. Maybe it's the hip hop that she's been exposed to, but to make such a blanket statement could be considered ignorant

Does hip hop have misogyny? yes but not all or most. If you look at what's popular right now, it's dance/hip hop, not the "gangsta rap" of the early 90s

even Tipper Gore focused on a single song as an example, she did not say "pop music is shameful!"

not to mention the 2 guys, Snoop, who used to be really misogynstic in his early days and sometimes to an extent in his music now, mostly raps about weed

and Diddy....he barely raps

I just hope Judd doesn't ever hear Odd Future...... then she'd really have a valid point

[Edited 4/8/11 15:19pm]

bboy87 said:

NDRU said:

even Tipper Gore focused on a single song as an example, she did not say "pop music is shameful!"

not to mention the 2 guys, Snoop, who used to be really misogynstic in his early days and sometimes to an extent in his music now, mostly raps about weed

and Diddy....he barely raps

I just hope Judd doesn't ever hear Odd Future...... then she'd really have a valid point

[Edited 4/8/11 15:19pm]

yeah puffy seems like an odd target here

Maybe rape culture was too much but people don’t act like most hip hop music is not promoting violence or disrespectful towards women. I listen to it but I'm listening to it much less recently because none of these rappers are saying much to keep my interest.

HatrinaHaterwitz said:

Spinlight said:

But isn't the topic Hip Hop?

No. The topic is Ashley Judd not knowing what she's talking about.

No, the topic is her opinion on Hip Hop. I didn't see where anyone ascribed all evil things in the world to Hip Hop or that Hip Hop was exclusively bad. But, again, diminishing the misogyny doesn't make it go away. Perhaps someone should ask her about the misogyny in rock music or country music. That's totally fair, as fair as the question about Hip Hop.

But that doesn't leave Hip Hop off the hook. "Because they do it too" isn't acceptable for a 5 year old and it's not acceptable for adults.

Let’s not forget how some Hip Hop is homophobic as well.

babybugz said:

Maybe rape culture was too much but people don’t act like most hip hop music is not promoting violence or disrespectful towards women. I listen to it but I'm listening to it much less recently because none of these rappers are saying much to keep my interest.

Right.

Snoop Dogg has done his share of tracks about pimps, bitches, & hoes, without question. But he has NEVER done any tracks about rape.

With that said, WTF is Ashley Judd talking about? Good freaking grief, she listens to mostly country, therefore she doesn't know shit about hip-hop OR shit-hop for that matter.

"Rape"? Woah. Scale that back. Can't just pick out two recognizable faces in the genre and brand them as the source of the problem. Besides, Diddy & Snoop are PG-13 for the most part, compared to what/who is out there now, and even their younger selves.

MattyJam said:

bboy87 said:

She continues: "I believe that the social construction of gender – the cultural beliefs and practices that divide the sexes and institutionalise and normalise the unequal treatment of girls and women, privilege the interests of boys and men, and, most nefariously, incessantly sexualise girls and women – is the root cause of poverty and suffering around the world.”

[Edited 4/8/11 6:48am]

And lets not forget about THIS infamous scene:

bboy87 said:

NDRU said:

even Tipper Gore focused on a single song as an example, she did not say "pop music is shameful!"

not to mention the 2 guys, Snoop, who used to be really misogynstic in his early days and sometimes to an extent in his music now, mostly raps about weed

and Diddy....he barely raps

I just hope Judd doesn't ever hear Odd Future...... then she'd really have a valid point

[Edited 4/8/11 15:19pm]

Right i'm curious how good Tyler and the gang are going to do mainstream they already got enough hype now.

babybugz said:

bboy87 said:

not to mention the 2 guys, Snoop, who used to be really misogynstic in his early days and sometimes to an extent in his music now, mostly raps about weed

and Diddy....he barely raps

I just hope Judd doesn't ever hear Odd Future...... then she'd really have a valid point

[Edited 4/8/11 15:19pm]

Right i'm curious how good Tyler and the gang are going to do mainstream they already got enough hype now.

They'll do okay but they're so immature and obnoxious

Spinlight said:

HatrinaHaterwitz said:

No. The topic is Ashley Judd not knowing what she's talking about.

No, the topic is her opinion on Hip Hop. I didn't see where anyone ascribed all evil things in the world to Hip Hop or that Hip Hop was exclusively bad. But, again, diminishing the misogyny doesn't make it go away. Perhaps someone should ask her about the misogyny in rock music or country music. That's totally fair, as fair as the question about Hip Hop.

But that doesn't leave Hip Hop off the hook. "Because they do it too" isn't acceptable for a 5 year old and it's not acceptable for adults.

Oh I didn't anything about who does it, too. I said there's a problem with misogyny in the music industry as a whole and there is. It started long before Hip Hop and it comes from the top of the industry on down. If we're going to call it out, then let's call it all the way out. It's a little too simple to point out a symptom, but ignore the disease.

HatrinaHaterwitz said:

Spinlight said:

No, the topic is her opinion on Hip Hop. I didn't see where anyone ascribed all evil things in the world to Hip Hop or that Hip Hop was exclusively bad. But, again, diminishing the misogyny doesn't make it go away. Perhaps someone should ask her about the misogyny in rock music or country music. That's totally fair, as fair as the question about Hip Hop.

But that doesn't leave Hip Hop off the hook. "Because they do it too" isn't acceptable for a 5 year old and it's not acceptable for adults.

Oh I didn't anything about who does it, too. I said there's a problem with misogyny in the music industry as a whole and there is. It started long before Hip Hop and it comes from the top of the industry on down. If we're going to call it out, then let's call it all the way out. It's a little too simple to point out a symptom, but ignore the disease.

Hear! Hear!

We're gonna play the morality role? Then LETS. While we're at it, music industry is not alone, her field too shouldn't be off the hook, or did she forget to mention that? There's more women hating venom coming out of hollywood than hip hop will EVER put out, subliminal or straight up blatant, since she's a woman of "self-empowerment", I'd love it for her to drop the "selective for the easy target" talk and call them ALL out on their bullshit.

Oh thats right, I forgot, she can't, because hollywood only offers fantasy whereas hip-hop offers reality, so they don't count silly me.

[Edited 4/8/11 17:14pm]

Spinlight said:

Yeah I've never heard one single song about running a train on a girl.

right

This may be unpopular...

I think Judd's point is overstated for effect and way presumptuous as it forgoes any qualifications. I'm guessing she knows not even a substantive fraction of hip hop's output, making a comment about "most rap and hip-hop music" way out of place for the likes of her. (I could be wrong, but I'd put money on the fact I'm not.) ...And, yeah, Judd is a hypocrite for some of the gratuitously sexual work she's done ...And, yeah, the entire culture is complicit in this trickle-down mysogyny and stands to be called out.

But all that considered, I can't be too mad at the underlying truth in what Judd is saying. Exploitation in pop culture has long been the order of the day, and any rapper willingly entering the game has no excuse for not knowing that. That said, if certain acts -- and a good number of them -- didn't give "the industry" the raw material, then "the industry" couldn't spin their work into some socially dysfunctional commodity. And it's not like pandering trash for "the Man" would be an act's only option: There've always been lots of indie hip hop acts who crank out dignified stuff, even if it won't get them rich and wildly famous. And even among bigger-name acts, no one's accusing, say, Common or Mos Def of any given social ill -- even as they also speak to certain tough realities. I'm thinking it's because they respect the line between report and glorification. We should face that a critical mass of hip hoppers (not "all" or "most" or even "a quarter," but certainly enough that it affects the genre's integrity) simply haven't/don't.

[Edited 4/9/11 11:59am]

prodigalfan said:

Spinlight said:

Yeah I've never heard one single song about running a train on a girl.

right

LOL, seriously? I have, but the woman was a willing participant. I've never heard a song where the woman is forced to do anything, though.

I can see where she's coming from, because a lot of the mainstream shit is money, cash, hoes (although I do believe Snoop's output these days isn't as misogynistic as, say, his Death Row period...and Diddy? WTF? He neither raps nor dances ). I'll bet if she went digging through some underground records, she'd find something more to her liking and retract her statement.

And JoeTyler is right--we all have our guilty pleasures. Here's one of mine: completely misogynistic, but I love the way it bumps in my car ( ).

[Edited 4/8/11 19:00pm]

Harlepolis said:

HatrinaHaterwitz said:

Oh I didn't anything about who does it, too. I said there's a problem with misogyny in the music industry as a whole and there is. It started long before Hip Hop and it comes from the top of the industry on down. If we're going to call it out, then let's call it all the way out. It's a little too simple to point out a symptom, but ignore the disease.

Hear! Hear!

We're gonna play the morality role? Then LETS. While we're at it, music industry is not alone, her field too shouldn't be off the hook, or did she forget to mention that? There's more women hating venom coming out of hollywood than hip hop will EVER put out, subliminal or straight up blatant, since she's a woman of "self-empowerment", I'd love it for her to drop the "selective for the easy target" talk and call them ALL out on their bullshit.

Oh thats right, I forgot, she can't, because hollywood only offers fantasy whereas hip-hop offers reality, so they don't count silly me.

[Edited 4/8/11 17:14pm]

Hip hop offers reality? Please. No more than Hollywood does. It's all bullshit. But since we can't mention hip hop's misogyny, let's not mention misogyny at all!

That sounds like a great plan! Yeah!

babybugz said:

Maybe rape culture was too much but people don’t act like most hip hop music is not promoting violence or disrespectful towards women. I listen to it but I'm listening to it much less recently because none of these rappers are saying much to keep my interest.

Yes the "rape culture" statement was too much. But of course anyone who's listened to hip-hop knows that most of it is very disrespectful...but definately not all...and to call out Diddy of all the rappers?...shows she's just looked on the surface and not hip-hop culture as a whole. There are plenty of other types of rappers who don't go down that route... even if they may be a small percentage compared to the ones who do.

She's stupid then.

Spinlight said:

Harlepolis said:

Hear! Hear!

We're gonna play the morality role? Then LETS. While we're at it, music industry is not alone, her field too shouldn't be off the hook, or did she forget to mention that? There's more women hating venom coming out of hollywood than hip hop will EVER put out, subliminal or straight up blatant, since she's a woman of "self-empowerment", I'd love it for her to drop the "selective for the easy target" talk and call them ALL out on their bullshit.

Oh thats right, I forgot, she can't, because hollywood only offers fantasy whereas hip-hop offers reality, so they don't count silly me.

[Edited 4/8/11 17:14pm]

Hip hop offers reality? Please. No more than Hollywood does. It's all bullshit.

Uh yeah, I was being sarcastic. Both are two faces for the same coin.

And since we can mention misogyny, lets jump on the bandwagon, be selective, beat on everybody's dead horse(hip hop) and villainize all the people associated with it under a "rape culture" tag, all the while ignoring the blatant misogyny that our profession puts out? Yeah, that sounds sincere,,,,and brave too.

The funny thing though, she just took a whole culture and threw it against the wall without any consideration that there's good & bad in every profession.

[Edited 4/9/11 1:20am]

"He ain't talking 'bout me!"

Harlepolis said:

Spinlight said:

Hip hop offers reality? Please. No more than Hollywood does. It's all bullshit.

Uh yeah, I was being sarcastic. Both are two faces for the same coin.

And since we can mention misogyny, lets jump on the bandwagon, be selective, beat on everybody's dead horse(hip hop) and villainize all the people associated with it under a "rape culture" tag, all the while ignoring the blatant misogyny that our profession puts out? Yeah, that sounds sincere,,,,and brave too.

Woe is hip hop? Come on now. What's the deal? Hip hop doesn't get a bad rap - it IS the bad rap. I love hip hop as much as the next... fan of hip hop, but I'm not going to lie to myself and pretend it's not completely abusive to gays and women. That would be ridiculous.

Nor do I lie to myself about rock music's tendencies to talk about drug use or country music's tendency to talk about... whatever they talk about.

I'm not about to agree with the term "rape culture" cuz I don't know what she means by that.

allsmutaside said:

Spin - Downplaying the intense misogyny of our culture at large would be more foolish. And honing in on "hip hop" culture as she is doing prevents accurate hanging of a bigger hat on the rack that is sexual abuse. Hip hop definitions of women and how our culture relates to them are only as they are because our dominant culture allows and promotes that angle.

Where is the implication that hip hop is the only abusive music?? It's not. And our culture promotes that stuff because it's there. It feeds itself. Why? Because of the socioeconomic side of it. What came first, the chicken or the egg?

Fuck that bitch.