New topic
PrintableAaronUnlimited said: Rumpofsteelskin said: AaronUnlimited said: Rumpofsteelskin said: What would you expect from an interview of any public profile like MJ. Don't you think if Diane Sawyer or Barbara Walters were invited into the home of OJ, they would ask "Did you kill Nicole, or not"
actually maybe not. when Walters interviewed one of the Menendez boys this past fall, there was barely a mention of what he was in jail for. total fluff piece about he and his new bride. But the Menedez boys weren't public figures. They were just some kids who made national headlines for killing their folks. which is exactly my point. the only thing to ask a Menendez brother about is him killing his parents. but it was barely mentioned. fortunately, the usually-irritating Starr Jones pretty much laid into Walters the next morning on the View for it. Honestly whose situation would you rather have an inside look at? Menendez or Jackson? Since Menendez there have been the Andrea Yates, Columbine, etc. We are practically immune to those types of situations as shock value. ABC's ratings tonight will prove which profile was of more interest to the American public. If Michael had specifically pointed out those situations during his interview as something more pressing that the media could be focusing on instead of the hippie-flower power act then his interview might have made him a little more credible. He should have pulled a Whitney Houston and cussed the guy's ass out. The press would have had a field day but at least he would have appeared human. | |
- E-mail - orgNote -  Report post to moderator |
Michael  period. His lips don't even work anymore.
A mind is a terrible thing to waste ---------------------------------
 Funny and charming as usual | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Rumpofsteelskin said: AaronUnlimited said: Rumpofsteelskin said: AaronUnlimited said: Rumpofsteelskin said: What would you expect from an interview of any public profile like MJ. Don't you think if Diane Sawyer or Barbara Walters were invited into the home of OJ, they would ask "Did you kill Nicole, or not"
actually maybe not. when Walters interviewed one of the Menendez boys this past fall, there was barely a mention of what he was in jail for. total fluff piece about he and his new bride. But the Menedez boys weren't public figures. They were just some kids who made national headlines for killing their folks. which is exactly my point. the only thing to ask a Menendez brother about is him killing his parents. but it was barely mentioned. fortunately, the usually-irritating Starr Jones pretty much laid into Walters the next morning on the View for it. Honestly whose situation would you rather have an inside look at? Menendez or Jackson? Since Menendez there have been the Andrea Yates, Columbine, etc. We are practically immune to those types of situations as shock value. true. but if you're going to do an update on the Menendez story, then it should be about what he's known for, just as the MJ one was. but at the other end, i don't think we really need either one. there's room for both in the news spectrum, but neither is essential. ABC's ratings tonight will prove which profile was of more interest to the American public. If Michael had specifically pointed out those situations during his interview as something more pressing that the media could be focusing on instead of the hippie-flower power act then his interview might have made him a little more credible.
that wasn't the intention on either Bashir's (and then 20/20's) part or Michael's. neither is interested in presenting reality. the Menendez situation, on the other hand, was a hard news story and should have been treated as such. He should have pulled a Whitney Houston and cussed the guy's ass out. The press would have had a field day but at least he would have appeared human.
i dunno. leading up to it, everything indicated that MJ was going to be roasted, but i have a feeling there's going to be more of a backlash against the film-maker and ABC. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Rumpofsteelskin said: Friend said: Comparing OJ to MJ?? Are you kidding??
One may odd, the other "may have" killed his kids Mother and a Man. One MAY have molested a thirteen year old for his perverted pleasures. Neither one of us were there to KNOW the truth. But MJ put himself in that situation as a public figure. Despite what he believes, it ISN'T common for a grown ass man to sleep with children to spead happiness for the good of the world. Someone would have to be headless to think that MJ would molest a child. MJ and perverted pleasures in the same sentence just don't go. He may be a lot of things but a child molester he is not. Watching him with that kid with cancer was amazing. And how is it that kids' see a beauty in him that narrowminded adults can't? I would trust a kid's judgement before an adult's ANYDAY. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
EverlastingNow said: Someone would have to be headless to think that MJ would molest a child. MJ and perverted pleasures in the same sentence just don't go. He may be a lot of things but a child molester he is not. Watching him with that kid with cancer was amazing. And how is it that kids' see a beauty in him that narrowminded adults can't? I would trust a kid's judgement before an adult's ANYDAY.
Someone would also have to be headless to think that Michael couldn't cover it up. If I was so against the abuse of children there is no way I would let someone slander my name like that 13 year old did and then settle out of court. It's not like MJ couldn't have afforded to go to trial. For God's sake the man has a private theme park in his yard. The kid and his parent's money would have run out before Michael's in the event he was hesitant to pay court costs. But settling the case out of court for millions of dollars sounds like a guilty man to me. Personally, for the sake of my good name, I would have spent every penny trying to prove my innocence. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Rumpofsteelskin said: EverlastingNow said: Someone would have to be headless to think that MJ would molest a child. MJ and perverted pleasures in the same sentence just don't go. He may be a lot of things but a child molester he is not. Watching him with that kid with cancer was amazing. And how is it that kids' see a beauty in him that narrowminded adults can't? I would trust a kid's judgement before an adult's ANYDAY.
Someone would also have to be headless to think that Michael couldn't cover it up. If I was so against the abuse of children there is no way I would let someone slander my name like that 13 year old did and then settle out of court. It's not like MJ couldn't have afforded to go to trial. For God's sake the man has a private theme park in his yard. The kid and his parent's money would have run out before Michael's in the event he was hesitant to pay court costs. But settling the case out of court for millions of dollars sounds like a guilty man to me. Personally, for the sake of my good name, I would have spent every penny trying to prove my innocence. As a parent, there isn't enough money in the world to keep me from going after the motherfucker who touched my child. To me, the fact that they took a SETTLEMENT instead of going after him legally proves his innocence. I feel that he just wanted the whole thing to go away. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
EverlastingNow said: Rumpofsteelskin said: Friend said: Comparing OJ to MJ?? Are you kidding??
One may odd, the other "may have" killed his kids Mother and a Man. One MAY have molested a thirteen year old for his perverted pleasures. Neither one of us were there to KNOW the truth. But MJ put himself in that situation as a public figure. Despite what he believes, it ISN'T common for a grown ass man to sleep with children to spead happiness for the good of the world. Someone would have to be headless to think that MJ would molest a child. MJ and perverted pleasures in the same sentence just don't go. He may be a lot of things but a child molester he is not. Watching him with that kid with cancer was amazing. And how is it that kids' see a beauty in him that narrowminded adults can't? I would trust a kid's judgement before an adult's ANYDAY. tell em 'bout it, man...tell the truth | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
EverlastingNow said: As a parent, there isn't enough money in the world to keep me from going after the motherfucker who touched my child. To me, the fact that they took a SETTLEMENT instead of going after him legally proves his innocence. I feel that he just wanted the whole thing to go away.
As a parent I agree with your stance. But if I were a man with money and KNEW I was innocent of those charges, those folks could expect a long trial and a countersuit. I would have made it go away in that fashion and wouldn't have that image following me a decade later. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
LaVisHh said: TRON said: LaVisHh said: And don't EVEN get me started on that Primetime BS...
 So, what did you think of the Primetime coverage? It was like, ok...so now that we've made money off of our pathetic, in-his-face questioning...let's rip him a new asshole! No, wait! Let's make him look like a moron! Sure! Why not? We can, you know... Pathetic. 
No wonder Prince is so controlling in interviews, the kinds of questions they asked MJ, then the Primetime: Rip MJ A New Asshole...is more than enough reason for me. I am apalled. I give props to MJ for standing up to that asshole with his patronizing and guilt seeking questions, he faced them and he answered them, cuz he knows he's not guilty...the only reason Prince doesnt allow those kinds of questions (probing questions) is because he knows he has something to hide. [This message was edited Thu Feb 6 21:50:05 PST 2003 by FirstAvenue] | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Rumpofsteelskin said: EverlastingNow said: As a parent, there isn't enough money in the world to keep me from going after the motherfucker who touched my child. To me, the fact that they took a SETTLEMENT instead of going after him legally proves his innocence. I feel that he just wanted the whole thing to go away.
As a parent I agree with your stance. But if I were a man with money and KNEW I was innocent of those charges, those folks could expect a long trial and a countersuit. I would have made it go away in that fashion and wouldn't have that image following me a decade later. just because he settled dont mean his guilty, plain and simple. the man said himself that he didnt want another OJ trial to happen. MJ saw the future with this issue, and he didnt want to drag it out, so he did what he had to do. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
AaronUnlimited said: Think he'll ever get a celebrity interview again?
of course he will. that's what journalism is about today, trying to put people down, not researching the facts. Its show biz. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Rumpofsteelskin said: EverlastingNow said: As a parent, there isn't enough money in the world to keep me from going after the motherfucker who touched my child. To me, the fact that they took a SETTLEMENT instead of going after him legally proves his innocence. I feel that he just wanted the whole thing to go away.
As a parent I agree with your stance. But if I were a man with money and KNEW I was innocent of those charges, those folks could expect a long trial and a countersuit. I would have made it go away in that fashion and wouldn't have that image following me a decade later. Yeah, but people are going to believe what they want to believe. Even if he'd gone to court and won, then people would have said that he "bought" his way out of it too. You can tell how he is with kids by the way that boy leaned on him like he was his best friend. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
EverlastingNow said: Rumpofsteelskin said: EverlastingNow said: As a parent, there isn't enough money in the world to keep me from going after the motherfucker who touched my child. To me, the fact that they took a SETTLEMENT instead of going after him legally proves his innocence. I feel that he just wanted the whole thing to go away.
As a parent I agree with your stance. But if I were a man with money and KNEW I was innocent of those charges, those folks could expect a long trial and a countersuit. I would have made it go away in that fashion and wouldn't have that image following me a decade later. Yeah, but people are going to believe what they want to believe. Even if he'd gone to court and won, then people would have said that he "bought" his way out of it too. You can tell how he is with kids by the way that boy leaned on him like he was his best friend. Then why don't people like Emmanuel Lewis and McCauley Caulkin (sp?) speak up in his defense? Now that they are grown men apparently they felt something was wrong with his behavior in retrospect. It's truly hard to stand up for someone who won't stand up for themselves. If he lied about plastic surgery why wouldn't he lie about that incident. I just can't give him sympathy for that. [This message was edited Thu Feb 6 21:59:17 PST 2003 by Rumpofsteelskin] | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Rumpofsteelskin said: EverlastingNow said: Rumpofsteelskin said: EverlastingNow said: As a parent, there isn't enough money in the world to keep me from going after the motherfucker who touched my child. To me, the fact that they took a SETTLEMENT instead of going after him legally proves his innocence. I feel that he just wanted the whole thing to go away.
As a parent I agree with your stance. But if I were a man with money and KNEW I was innocent of those charges, those folks could expect a long trial and a countersuit. I would have made it go away in that fashion and wouldn't have that image following me a decade later. Yeah, but people are going to believe what they want to believe. Even if he'd gone to court and won, then people would have said that he "bought" his way out of it too. You can tell how he is with kids by the way that boy leaned on him like he was his best friend. Then why don't people like Emmanuel Lewis and McCauley Caulkin (sp?) speak up in his defense? Now that they are grown men apparently they felt something was wrong with his behavior in retrospect. It's truly hard to stand up for someone who won't stand up for themselves. If he lied about plastic surgery why wouldn't he lie about that incident. I just can't give him sympathy for that. [This message was edited Thu Feb 6 21:59:17 PST 2003 by Rumpofsteelskin] McCauley HAS spoke up in his defense. Right after the story broke and still does to this day. And McCauley still remains very close to Michael, and that would not be the case had he hurt him in any way. And he can try to lie about the plastic surgery but anyone can see that's not true, but then again it's really no one's business if he did. Prince claims that he changed his name "because his spirit told him to" and then he changes it back and says "I changed my name to relieve myself of all contractual obligations" which he TOTALLY denied the whole time he was called 0(+> | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
coolbreeze said: I totally concur. The guy is wierd, but isn't everyone?
Excuse me? Are you serious? If we were all as weird as MJ, the world wouldn't function. MJ's weird factor goes beyond the majority of regular folk. And I'm sorry but MJ is a creation of HIS own making. There is very little left the media could do to defame MJ. He does well on his own. I mean really..if someone wrote that MJ dangled his kid from a balcony with his head covered with a cloth; you'd have every right to think it was some made up B.S. But no one has to make this up...he goes out and does it for real. So no, everyone is not THAT weird.  | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
I Think Michael did a Helluva Job Period considering How twisted things became.Mike didn't back down.now I don't go for everything He does or choices but overall Michael is coping the Best Way he Knows How.if He comes out with a Slamming Album then that will be what folks want.nobody is ever gonna understand where He is coming from fully&Vice Versa. mistermaxxx | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
EverlastingNow said: Rumpofsteelskin said: EverlastingNow said: Rumpofsteelskin said: EverlastingNow said: As a parent, there isn't enough money in the world to keep me from going after the motherfucker who touched my child. To me, the fact that they took a SETTLEMENT instead of going after him legally proves his innocence. I feel that he just wanted the whole thing to go away.
As a parent I agree with your stance. But if I were a man with money and KNEW I was innocent of those charges, those folks could expect a long trial and a countersuit. I would have made it go away in that fashion and wouldn't have that image following me a decade later. Yeah, but people are going to believe what they want to believe. Even if he'd gone to court and won, then people would have said that he "bought" his way out of it too. You can tell how he is with kids by the way that boy leaned on him like he was his best friend. Then why don't people like Emmanuel Lewis and McCauley Caulkin (sp?) speak up in his defense? Now that they are grown men apparently they felt something was wrong with his behavior in retrospect. It's truly hard to stand up for someone who won't stand up for themselves. If he lied about plastic surgery why wouldn't he lie about that incident. I just can't give him sympathy for that. [This message was edited Thu Feb 6 21:59:17 PST 2003 by Rumpofsteelskin] McCauley HAS spoke up in his defense. Right after the story broke and still does to this day. Webster too. He was on Howard Stern not too long ago with Hammer, of all people, to play "anal ring toss." (  )
anyway, Howard kept coming at him with questions about MJ but defended him all the way. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
AaronUnlimited said: EverlastingNow said: Rumpofsteelskin said: EverlastingNow said: Rumpofsteelskin said: EverlastingNow said: As a parent, there isn't enough money in the world to keep me from going after the motherfucker who touched my child. To me, the fact that they took a SETTLEMENT instead of going after him legally proves his innocence. I feel that he just wanted the whole thing to go away.
As a parent I agree with your stance. But if I were a man with money and KNEW I was innocent of those charges, those folks could expect a long trial and a countersuit. I would have made it go away in that fashion and wouldn't have that image following me a decade later. Yeah, but people are going to believe what they want to believe. Even if he'd gone to court and won, then people would have said that he "bought" his way out of it too. You can tell how he is with kids by the way that boy leaned on him like he was his best friend. Then why don't people like Emmanuel Lewis and McCauley Caulkin (sp?) speak up in his defense? Now that they are grown men apparently they felt something was wrong with his behavior in retrospect. It's truly hard to stand up for someone who won't stand up for themselves. If he lied about plastic surgery why wouldn't he lie about that incident. I just can't give him sympathy for that. [This message was edited Thu Feb 6 21:59:17 PST 2003 by Rumpofsteelskin] McCauley HAS spoke up in his defense. Right after the story broke and still does to this day. Webster too. He was on Howard Stern not too long ago with Hammer, of all people, to play "anal ring toss." ( )
anyway, Howard kept coming at him with questions about MJ but defended him all the way. mistermaxxx | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
MJ "Explains that none of the mothers now live with the children, but says it is not a problem. The children are OK with that." that's BS all children want to be with their mama, he has already braiwashed them, poor kids | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
jnoel said: MJ "Explains that none of the mothers now live with the children, but says it is not a problem. The children are OK with that." that's BS all children want to be with their mama, he has already braiwashed them, poor kids speak for yourself.I Got Friends who were raised by there Fathers because there Mothers either Died or left&they didn't lose anything.or what about Kids that are Raised by there GrandParents?so speak on what you know&Been exposed to because I have seen&dealt with this first hand.mistermaxxx | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Well,I wasn't gonna watch this special but,like millions of other people,I just couldn't resist.I wanted to see if this interview would let us see the "real Michael Jackson".But in the end,I came away disappointed.It didn't really tell us anything we didn't already know.Yes,Michael is weird.Yes,Michael has had plastic surgery on his face.Yes,Michael considers himself to be "Peter Pan".Yes,Michael has an amusement park at his home.Yes,Michael loves children.
These are all things that we knew 10 years ago.The documentary was actually kinda boring.I think that,in regards to plastic surgery,MJ should have just admitted what we already know.He should have said "Yes,I have had plastic surgery and I did it for my own personal reasons.If anyone has a problem with it,then so be it.It's my life". Not a very good documentary by any means.But,let's be honest,we will NEVER completely understand Michael,no matter who interviews him. .... [This message was edited Fri Feb 7 1:00:51 PST 2003 by DavidEye] | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
mistermaxxx said: speak for yourself.I Got Friends who were raised by there Fathers because there Mothers either Died or left & they didn't lose anything. 1) you don't know me either 2) do you really think that you defend MJ with this kind of absurdity? or what about Kids that are Raised by there GrandParents? I guess that they were surrounded by loving families and were allowed to have friends no? so speak on what you know&Been exposed to because I have seen&dealt with this first hand. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
AaronUnlimited said: origmnd said: DIDNT ANYONE NOTICE MJ'S blatant LIE!!!
Early when he was asked about "blanket's" "mother" MJ said they had a "relationship". At the end he said she was only a surrogate and never met her!!! Yeah, I noticed it. But... so? Prince once told the world that his baby was alive. You know,I don't understand why people are SO concerned about the mother of these children.It's none of their business! There is a such thing as "surrogate" parenthood,it happens everyday.What's the big deal? Look at Rosie O'Donnell,her lesbian lover recently gave birth to a baby,is anyone trippin' on who fathered HER child? ... [This message was edited Fri Feb 7 1:10:35 PST 2003 by DavidEye] | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
DavidEye said: AaronUnlimited said: origmnd said: DIDNT ANYONE NOTICE MJ'S blatant LIE!!!
Early when he was asked about "blanket's" "mother" MJ said they had a "relationship". At the end he said she was only a surrogate and never met her!!! Yeah, I noticed it. But... so? Prince once told the world that his baby was alive. You know,I don't understand why people are SO concerned about the mother of these children.It's none of their business! There is a such thing as "surrogate" parenthood,it happens everyday.What's the big deal? Look at Rosie O'Donnell,her lesbian lover recently gave birth to a baby,is anyone trippin' on who fathered HER child? ... [This message was edited Fri Feb 7 1:10:35 PST 2003 by DavidEye] People are SO concerned about the mother(s) of those children because MJ is the sorta man most people probably feel needs to be supervised when around children. Adults probably cringe at the thought of this self-obsessed, unstable man being the sole parent of 3 children. I think that's a normal reaction concerning a man who says he lives for children but also has really weird concepts of age, identity and sexuality. The implied imbalance of his personality is probably sufficient cause for most adults to be concerned about his interaction with children. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
i agree with what Aaron said.
ALSO!...i just saw Debbie Rowe speak out about it on TV,& she said that Michael is the most kind,giving person,& the potrayal of him in that interview was so appauling & wrong,they way they made him look Uri Gellar spoke out also,& made the point that is so true here... that the people who put the sexual connetation on this whole 'children sleeping over' /'in the same bed'...THEY are the ones who have the mental problem,that they have these ideas in their head,& keep on bringing the subject up. AND...a woman who is a friend of Michael,& let's her child 2 stay over at Michael's house,said that it was totally wrong...& she trusts him 100% & wouldnt believe 4 a second that he would harm children in any way. & Mj's sales in the UK have gone up by 1000% & sales of his GreatestHits CD have gone up 400% on OZ. that'll stick it right up Bashir & the haters 
 MJ!!!***************************************************************************************
Song of the Day: Prince *Acknowledge Me* | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
DavidEye said: You know,I don't understand why people are SO concerned about the mother of these children.It's none of their business! There is a such thing as "surrogate" parenthood,it happens everyday.What's the big deal? Look at Rosie O'Donnell,her lesbian lover recently gave birth to a baby,is anyone trippin' on who fathered HER child?
 ***************************************************************************************
Song of the Day: Prince *Acknowledge Me* | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Joshy84au said: i agree with what Aaron said.
ALSO!...i just saw Debbie Rowe speak out about it on TV,& she said that Michael is the most kind,giving person,& the potrayal of him in that interview was so appauling & wrong,they way they made him look it's not even with a normal divorced couple, this woman has sold her kids and suddenly she opens her mouth to defend her rich ex-husband Uri Gellar spoke out also,& made the point that is so true here... that the people who put the sexual connetation on this whole 'children sleeping over' /'in the same bed'...THEY are the ones who have the mental problem,that they have these ideas in their head,& keep on bringing the subject up. Do you know who Uri Geller is? if he's mj 's friend I feel sorry for jacko a fabulous swindler.. wait...
AND...a woman who is a friend of Michael,& let's her child 2 stay over at Michael's house,said that it was totally wrong...& she trusts him 100% & wouldnt believe 4 a second that he would harm children in any way. why hell would you even let your children stay at someone's house who is not from your family or friends ? kids don't even know who MJ is & Mj's sales in the UK have gone up by 1000% & sales of his GreatestHits CD have gone up 400% on OZ. and they have gone up thanks to this interview that you diss
that'll stick it right up Bashir & the haters
MJ!!!
you weren't against this bashir guy before mj start to complain once more * * [This message was edited Fri Feb 7 2:23:10 PST 2003 by jnoel] | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
ThreadBare said: DavidEye said: AaronUnlimited said: origmnd said: DIDNT ANYONE NOTICE MJ'S blatant LIE!!!
Early when he was asked about "blanket's" "mother" MJ said they had a "relationship". At the end he said she was only a surrogate and never met her!!! Yeah, I noticed it. But... so? Prince once told the world that his baby was alive. You know,I don't understand why people are SO concerned about the mother of these children.It's none of their business! There is a such thing as "surrogate" parenthood,it happens everyday.What's the big deal? Look at Rosie O'Donnell,her lesbian lover recently gave birth to a baby,is anyone trippin' on who fathered HER child? ... [This message was edited Fri Feb 7 1:10:35 PST 2003 by DavidEye] People are SO concerned about the mother(s) of those children because MJ is the sorta man most people probably feel needs to be supervised when around children. Adults probably cringe at the thought of this self-obsessed, unstable man being the sole parent of 3 children. I think that's a normal reaction concerning a man who says he lives for children but also has really weird concepts of age, identity and sexuality. The implied imbalance of his personality is probably sufficient cause for most adults to be concerned about his interaction with children. People can be "concerned" all they want but in the end,those three children are HIS.He is their sole guardian and that's not going to change.He says that he wants to adopt even more kids,and I'm sure he will.Besides,there are many screwed-up,self-obsessed celebrities that are raising kids (Rosie ODonnell,Pamela Anderson,etc).I wish people would show this much "concern" about the war we're getting ready to have! ... [This message was edited Fri Feb 7 2:19:06 PST 2003 by DavidEye] [This message was edited Fri Feb 7 2:20:59 PST 2003 by DavidEye] | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
DavidEye said: I wish people would show this much "concern" about the war we're getting ready to have!
Trust me -- i am, more so. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
The saddest part of the whole thing to me is when he discussed being teased for his looks during adolescence by his own father. These words no doubt had an affect on Michaels perception of himself, leading to the extremes he has gone through with his face. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |