Timmy84 said:

ViintageJunkiie said:

I don't see Neverland turning into anything without Michael's permission. Yeah MJ left back in 2005, but I'm sure part of him would've never wanted anything "done" to this place

Yeah I don't know what they're gonna do to that place.

Part of me wants the family to move there, but then Hayvenhurst will be neglected

ViintageJunkiie said:

Timmy84 said:

Yeah I don't know what they're gonna do to that place.

Part of me wants the family to move there, but then Hayvenhurst will be neglected

You know,I never even thought of that,kinda like that idea.

But,I see alot of bad things happening if they did!

ali23 said:

ViintageJunkiie said:

Part of me wants the family to move there, but then Hayvenhurst will be neglected

You know,I never even thought of that,kinda like that idea.

But,I see alot of bad things happening if they did!

Right. Plus Michael's estate owns both houses (I think).

ali23 said:

ViintageJunkiie said:

Part of me wants the family to move there, but then Hayvenhurst will be neglected

You know,I never even thought of that,kinda like that idea.

But,I see alot of bad things happening if they did!

Lets be honest, theres MORE THAN ENOUGH room for the family to move to Neverland and I'm sure MJ's kids will feel "at home" being there. I like the idea but I just don't know if it would actually happen. It would be nice

ViintageJunkiie said:

ali23 said:

You know,I never even thought of that,kinda like that idea.

But,I see alot of bad things happening if they did!

Lets be honest, theres MORE THAN ENOUGH room for the family to move to Neverland and I'm sure MJ's kids will feel "at home" being there. I like the idea but I just don't know if it would actually happen. It would be nice

Maybe when Prince and Paris reach adulthood they and Blanket can move there. I'm sure Prince could manage the house. It'll be up to them if they want other family members in there...which may be the problem.

Timmy84 said:

ViintageJunkiie said:

Lets be honest, theres MORE THAN ENOUGH room for the family to move to Neverland and I'm sure MJ's kids will feel "at home" being there. I like the idea but I just don't know if it would actually happen. It would be nice

Maybe when Prince and Paris reach adulthood they and Blanket can move there. I'm sure Prince could manage the house. It'll be up to them if they want other family members in there...which may be the problem.

They just have to be selective with WHICH family members

ViintageJunkiie said:

Timmy84 said:

Maybe when Prince and Paris reach adulthood they and Blanket can move there. I'm sure Prince could manage the house. It'll be up to them if they want other family members in there...which may be the problem.

They just have to be selective with WHICH family members

Exactly.

Timmy84 said:

ViintageJunkiie said:

They just have to be selective with WHICH family members

Exactly.

I think the younger generation should go ahead and move in, with maybe one or two of the elders watching over

armpit said:

I don't give a shit.

That's his mom, they should always respect her.

I'm talking specifically about whoever the sad fucks are who run the estate and thought it was okay to publically mock and demean the man's mom like that.

Like I said - she's the reason why he existed, she fed him and wiped his own ass before he could even do it himself. For them to turn around and then attack her when honestly - them cashing in off of her son's estate is probably the only thing keeping them fed themselves is incredibly fucked up to me.

Me thinks MJ should've left his estate to better people.

Respect her? Her own business partner isn't even showing her any respect.

Being respected doesn't seem to be an issue with this family. When are they not around folks that don't give a shit about them?

ali23 said:

PETA wants a Neverland animal sanctuary

Animal rights organization urges Michael Jackson's children to turn the 2,800-acre property into a 'community park and center for animals.'

Mon, Apr 11 2011 at 4:30 PM EST

4 Comments

Splash News

Should Michael Jackson's iconic Neverland Ranch be reborn has an animal refuge and rehabilitation center?

PETA is backing the idea and has sent a letter to Prince Michael Jackson and Paris Jackson urging them to act. They are rumored to be interested in the idea.

“We are writing because it has come to our attention that you hope to one day turn your father’s Neverland Ranch into a community park and center for animals,” PETA representative Michelle Cho writes. “We encourage you to call for this vast refuge to be turned into a true wildlife sanctuary where animals can be properly taken care of instead of a zoo, where people are encouraged to gawk at imprisoned animals in the name of profit.”

A couple weeks ago, I wrote over on Ecorazzi how Colony Capital, part owner of the 2,800-acre estate, is currently in the process of renovating the neglected property.

“Our plans have been to work to restore it to its original greatness,” CEO Tom Barrack told Bloomberg TV. “The place is amazing. It has not only the beautiful spirit and softness of Michael, but a legacy of a thousand years of Indian culture that had transacted upon it. We have just been restoring it, renovating it.”

He added that Colony is simply waiting to see what Jackson's children intend for the property before moving forward.

PETA wants to provide a bit of a push, adding in their letter some resources for the Jackson children to explore.

"The best way to gain a realistic understanding of everything that is involved in operating a sanctuary is by familiarizing yourself with the Standards of Excellence established by the Global Federation of Animal Sanctuaries and by visiting existing sanctuaries, such as Save the Chimps in Florida and the Performing Animal Welfare Society's wildlife sanctuaries in California," writes Cho.

She adds, "We encourage you to review these resources and begin planning for the eventual transformation of Neverland Ranch into a sanctuary similar in nature to that of its namesake — a place where to animals can escape from their former lives of abuse and neglect."

What would you like to see Neverland become?

i wouldn't trust ingrid newkirk (the head of PETA) with anything of mine with a 20,000 foot pole... they say they care about people (and YES non-human animals are people too) but newkirk and other representatives of PETA clearly state that any of them who are 'unwanted' will be killed. who are YOU to decide who is and is not wanted? the footage of these dogs, etc. being murdered is disturbing. i don't think PETA truly thinks about what is in their best interest. and their ad campaigns much of the time are irresponsible.

there are actually networks out there where you can look for animal sanctuaries. there are a few i knew some folks worked at.

i have a question though... since AEG has a stake in neverland (since they are a part of colony capital- which ultimately is one of the reasons i believe michael agreed to do those O2 shows- so neverland could be saved and he would'nt be totally in the red) would they make part of the ultimate decision in what occurs, despite neverland eventually going to the kids?

armpit said:

I don't give a shit.

That's his mom, they should always respect her.

Maybe if she would stop making deals with scum & crooks they would show her some.

i'm sure this will be deemed controversial on this forum, but i say both havenhurst and neverland should be sold on the market at this point. it's ultimately a waste of financial resources for all parties involved. i mean, there were fans working to try to save it... why not put it on the market and a fan would purchase it?

both the jacksons and those running the estate should be focused on other things, such as getting their spiritual and moral houses in order. i don't trust any of them. to me, they are all vampires.

unfortunately, michael didn't really trust anyone, so it was as if he made it out like had no choice. i agree with the person (i believe it was tim) who said that michael was not prepared... it clearly doesn't look like it. he had thome, leonard rowe, and people he SUPPOSEDLY rehired that were fired years prior. everything about it is fishy. i personally don't think dileo or branca were re-hired... i think a lot of the contracts signed had to do with thome... i don't think michael read everything he supposedly signed. again, michael has acknowledged that he didn't read every contract handed to him.

a lot of this seemed to begin in the late 80s, when the japanese bought out CBS. michael was in on this. this was ultimately the downfall. they gave him these boutique labels and all of this money, and they sucked him in, just to pull the rug from under him. it was then too late, because he got coersed into hiring gallin as his manager. then it got worse. he went through managers like a kid goes through eating candy. i mean, HOW was michael then convinced by jermaine to hook up with thome, and then thome suddenly hijaked all of michael's accounts? COME ON. was michael really THAT high that he didn't recognize what was going on?

there's more to the story than we know. obviously. how could michael be tricked into signing a ridiculous contract from AEG (i read the thing, it made no sense- the man signed his life away). he signed it, and THEN claimed he only was gonna do 10 dates... thew contract clearly stated there were more than 10 dates he was supposed to do. the dates were also very mixed up. this is why i don't think he read it. i think there was a figurative gun to the man's head... he had expenses to pay for, and kids to feed, so they were saying things in his ear that sounded 'good'.

i think a lot of this was set up to catch him off guard, because they knew his weaknesses. michael stated that he 'out-thunk' the cats at sony, but ultimately they were three steps ahead, at least... and he knew that because he had an open fear of being murdered, say, due to his stake in ownership of ATV.

it was as if michael knew he was gonna leave this earth, but he was at loss of what to do to prepare himself for it. because they already took so much from him. i'm not surpised at the amout of insanity (and that's exactly what it is) going on with both the estate, and the jackson family.

i don't think ANY of them care about michael's well-being... they care about the legacy of his image, but not him. they care about how he is marketed, but not him. they forget there is a man who had a soul, above all the merchandise.

i say they should get rid of everything, and start anew... and get some brand new P.R. people.

[Edited 4/13/11 13:54pm]

ViintageJunkiie said:

I don't see Neverland turning into anything without Michael's permission. Yeah MJ left back in 2005, but I'm sure part of him would've never wanted anything "done" to this place

ali23 said:

PETA wants a Neverland animal sanctuary

Animal rights organization urges Michael Jackson's children to turn the 2,800-acre property into a 'community park and center for animals.'

I read that PETA letter while eating a pepperoni, sausage, and chicken pizza

ali23 said:

mjforever said:

Thank you for this!

this is interesting... i think michael had a lot of vampires in his life, including his family... but landis took michael to court for some 'thriller'-related thing too... not too long before 25 june 2009. landis seems more cocky in this interview than in other interviews.

Swa said:

And onto the music....

Invincible

With a 5 year gap between HiStory and Invincible there was an air of intrigue surrounding the new album. How would it sound? Would there be surprises? Press at the time talked about how much was being spent on the albums production, and interviews suggested a lot more exploration of sounds and rhythm than eventuated on the release. We were told this was MJ going back to his Off The Wall days both in terms of melody and intent. So with Invincible’s release the expectation was high – was Michael going to be able to hold his own in a world of new pop stars, or would his releases start to be relegated to that of an “oldies” act.

Kicking the album off with Unbreakable, the groove stutters and struts along with sounds and structures that matched the current crop of hit makers. Michael’s voice is in fine form, especially in the falsetto lead in to the chorus. Here also for the first time was an exploration of digital cutting of effects on the vocals in smatterings here and there. Though at 6 minutes, the song seems to go along the same trajectory and doesn’t really offer anything new for the listener. Lyrically it feels as though Michael was trying overly hard to prove his worth – something he no longer needed to do.

Heartbreaker at least offered a bit of excitement. The manipulation of the beat has a sense of energy to it that is infectious. If you just listen to the beat, there are little surprises laid all through it, one moment MJ is beat boxing, the next snare drums are being sliced and diced, the next filters are being used to twist and turn it. Maybe a bit of a nod to the grooves Jam and Lewis would lay out for Janet, Heartbreaker really comes into it’s own with the choruses and sublime bridge where Michael’s backing vocals float and weave with ease. Hard hitting, jiggered and abrupt, this was one of the highpoints for the album in terms of the dance-oriented tracks.

Sadly Invincible comes off sounding like more of the same, and almost a brother track to Unbreakable, though with more melodic hooks. Maybe it’s the overly electronic instrumentation on the track, or the sparseness in the arrangement but it ends up being a dance song by the numbers and perhaps suffers from playing too much to the current pop playbook than pushing new territory.

Whilst the album would be criticised for having too many slo-jams on it (especially in the way it was sequenced) it’s often these songs that provide the high points on Invincible. Break of Dawn is a prime example of this. With Michael in more of a laid back mood the song floats out of the speakers and easily seduces the listener. A perfect balance of lead and backing vocals, there’s a depth here to Michael’s vocals that were lacking in the lead up tracks. The musical arrangement also feels more organic and natural. It just goes to show that when Michael wants to get his groove on and drift more into a soul territory few can come close.

Heaven Can Wait is classic r’n’b and Michael delivers like only MJ can. Lush production doesn’t swamp the song but allows Michael’s vocals to come to the fore and be carried by the track. Immediately catchy, the chorus now holds a bittersweet lyric that in today’s world features greater tragedy. One of the stand out tracks it’s no wonder Teddy Riley has plans of re-recording the track for Backstreet.

With it’s one moment comical the next annoying intro with Chris Tucker, You Rock My World see’s Michael hit with a modern MJ classic. Annoyed that Michael fell into the “darkchild” callout at the start of the song, this soon passes as the song’s groove and melody kick in. Sadly what could have been even more blissful arrangement with the use of real strings (and a nice nod back to Don’t Stop) the song relies a little too heavily on synths as its base. But there is no denying that out of all the dance tracks on here, this is the one that has you wanting to the get up the most. Although it doesn’t really offer anything new to his catalogue of hits, it does have a sense of joy in the vocals that are hard to resist.

Taking on Neo-Soul with Butterflies, Michael makes this song soar. With a groove that strolls, the musical arrangement feels more authentic, with horns and percussion punctuating the chorus. Michael’s vocals are amongst some of his best work, especially in the second verse when he goes into the falsetto that has been missing from a lot of his work. Rich and luscious backing vocals keep the choruses warm and just surround the listener. When you compare Michael’s final version with the Floetry demo you see how Michael matches note for note the little runs and adlibs to perfection yet still puts his own little stamp on it.

Sadly post Butterflies is where the album loses its focus and direction.

Speechless, with its pure a capella intro is captivating to begin with then falls into an overblown Disney-esque arrangement that seems to rob the song of the very heart it longs to convey. If it had kept just to a short a Capella song it would have been more captivating – take the first 30 seconds and last 30 seconds, and you have something truly special.

2,000 Watts ends up sounding like a generic cast off from Dangerous era recordings and too gimmicky to be taken seriously with lines such as “you may now apply your 3D glasses”. The mis-step here though is that this song replaced Shout – which was at least more inventive.

You Are My Life is ironically lifeless. With the classic hallmarks of a Babyface song it feels like it is 5 years late in it’s delivery and ends up sounding dated and redundant.

Continuing the media victim theme, Jackson presents Privacy and although edgier than songs such as Tabloid Junkie again it feels like Michael is treading old ground here.

Don’t Walk Away was one of the slow growers of the album. Reminiscent of a Janet ballad (Someday is Tonight springs to mind) Michael shows that he can still sing the heart of out a ballad and give it depth.

One of the increasing problems with Michael’s albums was there was a sense that he was trying to repeat previous success, and Cry is this album’s attempt to reimagine Man In The Mirror. Sadly it doesn’t come close and whilst not a bad song at all, it does make you think too much of MITM and therefore suffers in the comparison.

With his heart on his sleeve, and maybe still trying to sway public opinion, The Lost Children feels even more out of place here than some of the other mis-steps. Again it feels like Michael we have already heard in Heal The World and suffers from the same sappy production.

Thankfully when you are feeling less and less enthused with the album, Whatever Happens comes on. With a duet between vocals and Santana guitar, it is one of the freshest tracks on the album. Sure it's in the blueprint of “get a great guitarist on the track”, but instead of trying to repeat Beat It, Michael explores new territory with this Latin fused track and comes out the winner.

Sadly, the freshness of Whatever Happens doesn’t carry across into Threatened – Michael’s latest take on a Thriller style song. Although not the wisest choice lyrically as Michael paints himself as a threatening beast who preys on sleeping victims, the groove of Threatened is what makes it captivating, and since getting a live airing in This Is It, the song has become more appealing, but part of me wishes the groove had different lyrics, but as it is it feels like Michael is treating old ground.

As his last studio album, Invincible ends up suffering from the weight of it’s own ambition. Overly long, this mixed bag of tricks really fails to continue with the momentum that the first half of the album was building. If it was trimmed down to 9 or 10 songs, then I think the feeling the album leaves you with would be different, and maybe would have been the “come back” album many critics claimed it wasn’t. Sadly this is the last studio album Michael left us, and you can’t help but think if he knew that, this wouldn’t be the note he would have wanted to leave on.

hee hee... i have to say that 'invincible' is one of my four favourite albums from michael. as i keep saying. i see a maturity there that you don't necessarily see with his other works.

but! i absolutely love your descriptions of the songs... this is the kind of stuff i love to see. i do write a lot like this, just not on this forum... for me, '2000 watts' and 'invincible' are the worst of the bunch, and does seem to add nothing to the album- instead we have michael trying to 'keep up with the young cats'... and as we can see, with songs like 'butterflies' or 'heaven can wait' there is no need for him to even try... we still have usher, timberlake and all those dudes trying to sound like him.

i happen to love the 'message' songs he does, as well as the sap. so i have no problem with that stuff on the album. and he can rock with the best of them with the dance tracks too.

is it a case of michael not having enough faith in his creativity at that point? i cannot say. but yes, when he seems comfortable in his creative skin (or at least gives the appearance of it) the man doesn't even have to try. it's amazing.

thanks for your essay, swa.

ali23 said:

PETA wants a Neverland animal sanctuary

Animal rights organization urges Michael Jackson's children to turn the 2,800-acre property into a 'community park and center for animals.'

Mon, Apr 11 2011 at 4:30 PM EST

4 Comments

Splash News

I could see Neverland turning into an orphanage...I always thought that's something Michael might have wanted....maybe...then again who am I to have an opinion on this subject

40 years ago, maybe tomorrow album was released

Emancipation89 said:

ali23 said:

PETA wants a Neverland animal sanctuary

Animal rights organization urges Michael Jackson's children to turn the 2,800-acre property into a 'community park and center for animals.'

Mon, Apr 11 2011 at 4:30 PM EST

4 Comments

Splash News

I could see Neverland turning into an orphanage...I always thought that's something Michael might have wanted....maybe...then again who am I to have an opinion on this subject

I agree!

ViintageJunkiie said:

Emancipation89 said:

I could see Neverland turning into an orphanage...I always thought that's something Michael might have wanted....maybe...then again who am I to have an opinion on this subject

I agree!

^^Gonna pretend he's an 12 year old orphan to live at Neverland and hunt for bad tour footage that's possibly in some kind of dresser of closet

mjforever said:

sorry but annyoing as hell and of course FAKE

MJJstudent said:

i'm sure this will be deemed controversial on this forum, but i say both havenhurst and neverland should be sold on the market at this point. it's ultimately a waste of financial resources for all parties involved. i mean, there were fans working to try to save it... why not put it on the market and a fan would purchase it?

No matter what, that's still his house and now it belongs to his kids & whomever else has a stake in it. When they get of age they, as well as the other peole with money in it should come to a mutual decision about what should be done with it. It would be nice if it can serve as something that would both benefit the estate and the community as that would continue to serve MJ's legacy. That might take some years, so until then we're just going to subjected to court cases up the ass.

Also, as for MJ not being prepared for death...well...at that age, no one is really prepared to die. While it is true that his shit seems to be in a complete mess, I can only assume that maybe he was going through some kind of depression. Sometimes when you go through that you tend to not care about a lot of things so that could be reason as to why everything is kinda screwed up for the most part. Yet, it's just sad that by the time he was mentally ready it ended. =/

[Edited 4/14/11 9:06am]

Unholyalliance said:

MJJstudent said:

i'm sure this will be deemed controversial on this forum, but i say both havenhurst and neverland should be sold on the market at this point. it's ultimately a waste of financial resources for all parties involved. i mean, there were fans working to try to save it... why not put it on the market and a fan would purchase it?

No matter what, that's still his house and now it belongs to his kids & whomever else has a stake in it. When they get of age they, as well as the other peole with money in it should come to a mutual decision about what should be done with it. It would be nice if it can serve as something that would both benefit the estate and the community as that would continue to serve MJ's legacy. That might take some years, so until then we're just going to subjected to court cases up the ass.

Also, as for MJ not being prepared for death...well...at that age, no one is really prepared to die. While it is true that his shit seems to be in a complete mess, I can only assume that maybe he was going through some kind of depression. Sometimes when you go through that you tend to not care about a lot of things so that could be reason as to why everything is kinda screwed up for the most part. Yet, it's just sad that by the time he was mentally ready it ended. =/

[Edited 4/14/11 9:06am]

Who knows? We all don't know what happened. We weren't there, we can only speculate, which sucks.

bboy87 said:

ViintageJunkiie said:

I don't see Neverland turning into anything without Michael's permission. Yeah MJ left back in 2005, but I'm sure part of him would've never wanted anything "done" to this place

I read that PETA letter while eating a pepperoni, sausage, and chicken pizza

Katherine Jackson Fires Her Lawyer

Katherine Jackson has just escalated her battle royale with the Michael Jackson Estate by firing her lawyer.



TMZ has obtained a letter Katherine sent to Adam Streisand, wishing him the best on the one hand ... and giving him the boot on the other.

The letter does not explain the reasons for the firing, simply saying, "... I have decided to move in a different direction."

But sources connected with Katherine tell TMZ ... she's upset that Streisand gave TMZ a statement yesterday in which he said Katherine "denies signing any statement to the court that makes accusations against the executors of any wrongdoing with respect to her son or his estate."

The Heal the World Foundation had filed a declaration -- purportedly written by Katherine Jackson -- in which she accused John Branca of being a crook who stole from Michael.

Streisand told TMZ Wednesday, "She did not and would not make any such statements about the executors."

Sources connected with Katherine do not dispute Streisand's claim that Katherine never said or believed the executors were crooks. So it's unclear what got Katherine so upset that she fired Streisand.

Sources familiar with the situation tell TMZ ... some of the people who have Katherine's ear have it out for the Estate and actually wrote the declaration with the accusations and were upset that Streisand blew the whistle on them.

Timmy84 said:

ViintageJunkiie said:

Lets be honest, theres MORE THAN ENOUGH room for the family to move to Neverland and I'm sure MJ's kids will feel "at home" being there. I like the idea but I just don't know if it would actually happen. It would be nice

Maybe when Prince and Paris reach adulthood they and Blanket can move there. I'm sure Prince could manage the house. It'll be up to them if they want other family members in there...which may be the problem.

That would probably be the best. I think that would make them feel like at home and "keep in touch" with their father.

dag said:

Timmy84 said:

Maybe when Prince and Paris reach adulthood they and Blanket can move there. I'm sure Prince could manage the house. It'll be up to them if they want other family members in there...which may be the problem.

That would probably be the best. I think that would make them feel like at home and "keep in touch" with their father.

Or MORE in touch. I think they do keep in touch with their father in their own ways.

Timmy84 said:

dag said:

That would probably be the best. I think that would make them feel like at home and "keep in touch" with their father.

Or MORE in touch. I think they do keep in touch with their father in their own ways.

Neverland was definitely their home. I wonder if they ever wish to go back. Is there even anything there? I'd love to sit in the Giving Tree .. I bet MJ's presence is EVERYWHERE

Timmy84 said:

dag said:

That would probably be the best. I think that would make them feel like at home and "keep in touch" with their father.

Or MORE in touch. I think they do keep in touch with their father in their own ways.

Of course. You've expressed it better.

BTW, I adore these pictures of Paris in Neverland. It seems like paradise.

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[Edited 4/14/11 13:12pm]

ViintageJunkiie said:

Timmy84 said:

Or MORE in touch. I think they do keep in touch with their father in their own ways.

Neverland was definitely their home. I wonder if they ever wish to go back. Is there even anything there? I'd love to sit in the Giving Tree .. I bet MJ's presence is EVERYWHERE