I think it's too early to make that call. Let's wait and see what the album brings. I personally love "I Need A Doctor" and it was a bold move and a risk. The worst thing that could have happened would be bringing out songs that just sounded the same as "Still DRE" and "Next Episode".

Dre is the dopest hip hop producer of all time. Sure he's sampled a lot, but that was when sampling wasn't expensive. Most of the hip hop producers today would've sampled like crazy back when it was "free" but nowadays sampling is way too damn expensive. So what Dre did with the samples is what's really up. He's responsible for creating the gangsta rap sound, whether anyone likes it or not. He's a pioneer. Are there more creative hip hop producers? Arguably yes. But Dre's imprint on hip hop as a producer is pretty much unrivaled.

And oh yeah, Quik is FAR from a "genius" .

SonOfSoul said:

And oh yeah, Quik is FAR from a "genius" .

Watch the "Visualizm" DVD and you might change your mind.

Militant said:

SonOfSoul said:

And oh yeah, Quik is FAR from a "genius" .

Watch the "Visualizm" DVD and you might change your mind.

No, it won't. People throw "genius" around way too willy-nilly when it comes to music.

SonOfSoul said:

Militant said:

Watch the "Visualizm" DVD and you might change your mind.

No, it won't. People throw "genius" around way too willy-nilly when it comes to music.

It's relative to it's context. For me, Prince, MJ, Trent Reznor, Joni Mitchell, Freddy Mercury and DJ Quik are geniuses in their respective ranges of music. It's not a "fact", it's an opinion. You are entitled to disagree.

But to laugh at another person's opinion because you disagree is largely pointless.

My belief is that the work of the people I mentioned fits the dictionary definition of the word "genius", which is:

an exceptional natural capacity of intellect, especially as shown in creative and

original work in science, art, music, etc.: the genius of Mozart.

I think the way all those people have approached their work, and a great deal of the ideas they have come up with, are evidence of exceptional intellectual capacity in their specific field, especially when compared to the majority of others who operate within the same sphere.

Maybe you have a different definition of "genius" but I'm going by the standardised one.

SonOfSoul said:

And oh yeah, Quik is FAR from a "genius" .

I wouldn't call him a genius. But on a musical? He surpasses Dre easily.

Hell, take "2001" and "Balance & Options" alone, not their strongest albums but given that they were released on nearly the same time(a year apart) you can obviously tell that "Balance & Options" endured time, while "2001" with all its bombarded sample frenzy sounds dated in 2011. Not saying that Quik didn't rely on sampling though, but I can say he put his whole weight on his own musical ideas as opposed to walk down the easy way, heavy sampling.

I've alway thought so.

Militant said:

SonOfSoul said:

It's relative to it's context. For me, Prince, MJ, Trent Reznor, Joni Mitchell, Freddy Mercury and DJ Quik are geniuses in their respective ranges of music. It's not a "fact", it's an opinion. You are entitled to disagree.

But to laugh at another person's opinion because you disagree is largely pointless.

My belief is that the work of the people I mentioned fits the dictionary definition of the word "genius", which is:

an exceptional natural capacity of intellect, especially as shown in creative and

original work in science, art, music, etc.: the genius of Mozart.

I think the way all those people have approached their work, and a great deal of the ideas they have come up with, are evidence of exceptional intellectual capacity in their specific field, especially when compared to the majority of others who operate within the same sphere.

Maybe you have a different definition of "genius" but I'm going by the standardised one.

It's pointless to you, but I find it funny whenever people toss around genius in regards to certain artists. And yeah, my definiton of Musical Genius certainly differs from yours.

Harlepolis said:

SonOfSoul said:

And oh yeah, Quik is FAR from a "genius" .

I wouldn't call him a genius. But on a musical? He surpasses Dre easily.

Hell, take "2001" and "Balance & Options" alone, not their strongest albums but given that they were released on nearly the same time(a year apart) you can obviously tell that "Balance & Options" endured time, while "2001" with all its bombarded sample frenzy sounds dated in 2011. Not saying that Quik didn't rely on sampling though, but I can say he put his whole weight on his own musical ideas as opposed to walk down the easy way, heavy sampling.

But it's not about single works, it's about the body of work, and Dre's body of work surpasses Quik's body of work.

SonOfSoul said:

It's pointless to you, but I find it funny whenever people toss around genius in regards to certain artists.

Why?

Why what? Why do I find it funny? I already explained that.

Dr. Dre is not overrated at all. That said I hope there will be nothing more like "I Need A Doctor" on the album, that song is seriously trash

jiorjios said:

Dr. Dre is not overrated at all. That said I hope there will be nothing more like "I Need A Doctor" on the album, that song is seriously trash

Now THAT I agree with it.

Harlepolis said:

SonOfSoul said:

And oh yeah, Quik is FAR from a "genius" .

I wouldn't call him a genius. But on a musical? He surpasses Dre easily.

Hell, take "2001" and "Balance & Options" alone, not their strongest albums but given that they were released on nearly the same time(a year apart) you can obviously tell that "Balance & Options" endured time, while "2001" with all its bombarded sample frenzy sounds dated in 2011. Not saying that Quik didn't rely on sampling though, but I can say he put his whole weight on his own musical ideas as opposed to walk down the easy way, heavy sampling.

All I know is here in Belgium all the kids that are hip to hip hop etc know almost all of Dre's songs and productions and they still get played alot at parties, in the car or in the park with friends, everywhere, when they play lik a half hour of hip hop, close to 50% of tracks played will be Dre shit, the next episode, still D.R.E, In Da Club, How we do and some others being played at almost every party. And DJ Quik is dope and I'm a big fan of his but here in Belgium only really hardcore hip hop heads know his stuff. I'm a amateur rapper and the only people I know who listen to Quik are my producer and a friend of mine from the US who also raps.

[Edited 3/12/11 11:39am]

[Edited 3/12/11 11:40am]

SonOfSoul said:

Harlepolis said:

I wouldn't call him a genius. But on a musical? He surpasses Dre easily.

Hell, take "2001" and "Balance & Options" alone, not their strongest albums but given that they were released on nearly the same time(a year apart) you can obviously tell that "Balance & Options" endured time, while "2001" with all its bombarded sample frenzy sounds dated in 2011. Not saying that Quik didn't rely on sampling though, but I can say he put his whole weight on his own musical ideas as opposed to walk down the easy way, heavy sampling.

But it's not about single works, it's about the body of work, and Dre's body of work surpasses Quik's body of work.

I picked these two as examples as their supposedly weakest efforts. Imagine their best, head to head

Thibaut said:

Harlepolis said:

I wouldn't call him a genius. But on a musical? He surpasses Dre easily.

Hell, take "2001" and "Balance & Options" alone, not their strongest albums but given that they were released on nearly the same time(a year apart) you can obviously tell that "Balance & Options" endured time, while "2001" with all its bombarded sample frenzy sounds dated in 2011. Not saying that Quik didn't rely on sampling though, but I can say he put his whole weight on his own musical ideas as opposed to walk down the easy way, heavy sampling.

All I know is here in Belgium all the kids that are hip to hip hop etc know almost all of Dre's songs and productions and they still get played alot at parties, in the car or in the park with friends, everywhere, when they play lik a half hour of hip hop, close to 50% of tracks played will be Dre shit, the next episode, still D.R.E, In Da Club, How we do and some others being played at almost every party. And DJ Quik is dope and I'm a big fan of his but here in Belgium only really hardcore hip hop heads know his stuff. I'm a amateur rapper and the only people I know who listen to Quik are my producer and a friend of mine from the US who also raps.

[Edited 3/12/11 11:39am]

[Edited 3/12/11 11:40am]

Well, thats another subject. Dre gets played more than Quik here in the US too, given that I think Dre had the advantage of a label's back up. Quik wasn't really as fortunate.

But musically, I think Quik surpasses him in general. Even with his production with other artists, he proved to be versatile.

When you hear a Dre beat, you heard 'em all. Quik is more unpredictable IMO.

[Edited 3/12/11 12:42pm]

Harlepolis said:

SonOfSoul said:

But it's not about single works, it's about the body of work, and Dre's body of work surpasses Quik's body of work.

I picked these two as examples as their supposedly weakest efforts. Imagine their best, head to head

In that case, Dre would beat Quik.

SonOfSoul said:

Why what? Why do I find it funny? I already explained that.

No you didn't. You just stated that you find it funny. Unless I missed something.

Militant said:

SonOfSoul said:

Why what? Why do I find it funny? I already explained that.

No you didn't. You just stated that you find it funny. Unless I missed something.

I stated that I found it funny because people love to throw the word "genius" around all willy-nilly, when in fact there are only a small handful of TRUE musical geniuses. DJ Quik would never qualify as a musical genius to true musical aficianados.

SonOfSoul said:

Militant said:

No you didn't. You just stated that you find it funny. Unless I missed something.

I stated that I found it funny because people love to throw the word "genius" around all willy-nilly, when in fact there are only a small handful of TRUE musical geniuses. DJ Quik would never qualify as a musical genius to true musical aficianados.

That's some serious snobbery right there.

And I resent the implication that I'm not a musical aficionado because I consider Quik a genius WITHIN HIS FIELD.

I could sit here all day and discuss the intricacies of the careers of Jaco Pastorius, Mozart, Miles Davis, John Coltrane, Prince, Frank Zappa, Bob Dylan, Joni Mitchell, Bach, Captain Beefheart, Beethoven, Michael Jackson, Steve Vai, Stevie Wonder, Bob Marley, Duke Ellington, Jimi Hendrix, James Brown, The Beatles...... ALL of whom have been considered to be musical geniuses. I'm INTRICATELY familiar with all of their careers.

But OK, according to you, I'm not a musical aficionado. OK then.

Militant said:

SonOfSoul said:

I stated that I found it funny because people love to throw the word "genius" around all willy-nilly, when in fact there are only a small handful of TRUE musical geniuses. DJ Quik would never qualify as a musical genius to true musical aficianados.

That's some serious snobbery right there.

And I resent the implication that I'm not a musical aficionado because I consider Quik a genius WITHIN HIS FIELD.

I could sit here all day and discuss the intricacies of the careers of Jaco Pastorius, Mozart, Miles Davis, John Coltrane, Prince, Frank Zappa, Bob Dylan, Joni Mitchell, Bach, Captain Beefheart, Beethoven, Michael Jackson, Steve Vai, Stevie Wonder, Bob Marley, Duke Ellington, Jimi Hendrix, James Brown, The Beatles...... ALL of whom have been considered to be musical geniuses. I'm INTRICATELY familiar with all of their careers.

But OK, according to you, I'm not a musical aficionado. OK then.

Then A LOT of music fans are snobs, because I'm damn sure if a discussion about musical geniuses came up, DJ Quik's ass would NEVER be mentioned, even in his own fucking field . So good luck with that.

[Edited 3/12/11 18:28pm]

I think Dre gets the credit he deserves. He's produced some major hits...you can't deny him.

A lot of other producers were mentioned but I did not notice Just Blaze? I think he's one of the more successful hip-hop producers today. He deserves mention at least.....so here it is.

Timmy84 said:

Yeah he gets TOO much credit. I heard someone ghost produced all the stuff he was credited with producing but they gave him the credit solely.

I know he used Static for that hit he had with Truth Hurts called "Addictive" I always thought Dre wrote it & produced it... The late Steve "Static" Garrett wrote the song's lyrics, and the record was produced by DJ Quik who I also think is very underrated & better than Dre.

A lot of producers use ghost writers. Timbaland was a ghost writer for Jodeci & Pharrel was a ghost writer for Teddy Riley. Pharrel wrote his biggest hit "Rumpshaker"

SonOfSoul said:

Militant said:

That's some serious snobbery right there.

And I resent the implication that I'm not a musical aficionado because I consider Quik a genius WITHIN HIS FIELD.

I could sit here all day and discuss the intricacies of the careers of Jaco Pastorius, Mozart, Miles Davis, John Coltrane, Prince, Frank Zappa, Bob Dylan, Joni Mitchell, Bach, Captain Beefheart, Beethoven, Michael Jackson, Steve Vai, Stevie Wonder, Bob Marley, Duke Ellington, Jimi Hendrix, James Brown, The Beatles...... ALL of whom have been considered to be musical geniuses. I'm INTRICATELY familiar with all of their careers.

But OK, according to you, I'm not a musical aficionado. OK then.

Then A LOT of music fans are snobs, because I'm damn sure if a discussion about musical geniuses came up, DJ Quik's ass would NEVER be mentioned, even in his own fucking field . So good luck with that.

[Edited 3/12/11 18:28pm]

No, because unlike you they would respect the opinion of another especially if they can make a strong case for that opinion. Which I damn sure can.

So now I gotta ask - who do you consider to be musical geniuses?

daytonohioplayer said:

thetimefan said:

I think Dr Dre gets a lot of props because he was with NWA and also because most of the records he's produced have been big hits like Snoop's 1st album, the Chronic etc. Although I think DJ Quik, J-Dilla, 9th Wonder and DJ Premier are more creative, but again they haven't sold as many records as Dre which is why they're not as famous.

Lets not forget Daz Dillinger who they say produced a lot of that DeathRow stuff, but Dre got the credit.

And THAT, my Peoples is what started the "beef" between 2Pac & Dre. Pac heard the beat for "Got My Mind Made Up" and was givin' Dre all the props 4 it. Daz spoke up and said it was HE that did the beat. Pac clowned the shit outta Dre, and the rest is history.............

I tell U what: I'll be checkin' 4 Quik's "Book Of David" WAAAAAAAAy b4 Dre's "Detox"!!!!!!

Militant said:

SonOfSoul said:

Then A LOT of music fans are snobs, because I'm damn sure if a discussion about musical geniuses came up, DJ Quik's ass would NEVER be mentioned, even in his own fucking field . So good luck with that.

[Edited 3/12/11 18:28pm]

No, because unlike you they would respect the opinion of another especially if they can make a strong case for that opinion. Which I damn sure can.

So now I gotta ask - who do you consider to be musical geniuses?

No, they wouldn't respect you. Trust me. They'd laugh at you if you sat up there and said "I also think DJ Quik is a genius". So you go do that and come back and let us know how that went.

Stevie and Prince are the 2 that immediately come to mind. Thing is, DJ Quik NEVER came to mind. Funny how that is.

SonOfSoul said:

Militant said:

No, because unlike you they would respect the opinion of another especially if they can make a strong case for that opinion. Which I damn sure can.

So now I gotta ask - who do you consider to be musical geniuses?

No, they wouldn't respect you. Trust me. They'd laugh at you if you sat up there and said "I also think DJ Quik is a genius". So you go do that and come back and let us know how that went.

Stevie and Prince are the 2 that immediately come to mind. Thing is, DJ Quik NEVER came to mind. Funny how that is.

So if you label Stevie and Prince as "Geniuses", I have no idea how you think Dre fits into that category.

The guy isn't 100% behind all of his work to begin with.

He didn't create "gangster rap" and he didn't invent G-Funk either.

His influence is overrated.

SonOfSoul said:

Militant said:

No, because unlike you they would respect the opinion of another especially if they can make a strong case for that opinion. Which I damn sure can.

So now I gotta ask - who do you consider to be musical geniuses?

No, they wouldn't respect you. Trust me. They'd laugh at you if you sat up there and said "I also think DJ Quik is a genius". So you go do that and come back and let us know how that went.

Stevie and Prince are the 2 that immediately come to mind. Thing is, DJ Quik NEVER came to mind. Funny how that is.

I've done it a million times and yes, most people are open minded enough to accept others opinions even if they disagree. And I've worked as a music journalist in the past, and I'm currently making documentaries about Prince, Run DMC, Beastie Boys, Depeche Mode, New Order, The Smiths and Talk Talk for one of the biggest radio stations in the UK, so I have in depth conversations with music fans on a daily basis.

Sorry, you lose.

minneapolisFunq said:

SonOfSoul said:

No, they wouldn't respect you. Trust me. They'd laugh at you if you sat up there and said "I also think DJ Quik is a genius". So you go do that and come back and let us know how that went.

Stevie and Prince are the 2 that immediately come to mind. Thing is, DJ Quik NEVER came to mind. Funny how that is.

So if you label Stevie and Prince as "Geniuses", I have no idea how you think Dre fits into that category.

The guy isn't 100% behind all of his work to begin with.

He didn't create "gangster rap" and he didn't invent G-Funk either.

His influence is overrated.

Show me where I said Dre was a musical genius? And he was responsible for creating G-rap, he pioneered it. And when did I say he created G-funk? Get ya shit straight before you come at me. Dre isn't overrated, he's just at the tail end of his career but to sit here almost 20 years later and say he's overrated is ridiculous. It's easy to say the shit NOW, but where was yo ass back when he dropped gems like The Chronic and Doggystyle? Exactly. Nowhere t be found.

[Edited 3/13/11 11:16am]