I have to say something... this is not about who is the "most dangerous" (honestly I'd go with Morris Levy and Nate Tarnopol), but about the Patti Smith song.

She mentioned a lot of people as rock and roll n*****s. And not all of them were black. Intepret it all you like, but that song was about people who were cast out of society. Sure it can be offensive but she made her point come across.

That's all. Carry on.

[Edited 2/16/11 7:02am]

Neversin said:

TonyVanDam said:

Who Is the Most Dangerous Record Label Exec/CEO Ever: Clive Davis, Tommy Mottola, OR Jimmy Iovine?

None of them, it's the people who sign up with them who are fucking it all up and give them power...

Some idiots claim these guys are slaveowners of multimillionaire black products, and yet these multimillionaire black products willingly signed up with them... What a fucking ironic paradox...

Don't blame these bullshit "businessmen" for the stupidity of these RnB (Rap and Bullshit) acts who sign up with them...

Sure they're white guys controlling black music (whatever the fuck that may mean...) but all these idiot acts willingly let them...

The stupidity and ignorance of these acts, who want to make easy money by selling themselves and let themselves be exploited by these so called labeled "white devils", is way more dangerous...

Neversin.

Excuse you, but if record label exces/CEOs are the ones giving out recording deals to negative artists, then thise exces/CEOs are at fault for lowering the musical standards, just like they're at fault for not being able to keep their entire roster of artists under control.

Timmy84 said:

I have to say something... this is not about who is the "most dangerous" (honestly I'd go with Morris Levy and Nate Tarnopol), but about the Patti Smith song.

She mentioned a lot of people as rock and roll n*****s. And not all of them were black. Intepret it all you like, but that song was about people who were cast out of society. Sure it can be offensive but she made her point come across.

That's all. Carry on.

[Edited 2/16/11 7:02am]

i was wonderin' when you were gonna jump in, homie. hee hee...

MJJstudent said:

Timmy84 said:

I have to say something... this is not about who is the "most dangerous" (honestly I'd go with Morris Levy and Nate Tarnopol), but about the Patti Smith song.

She mentioned a lot of people as rock and roll n*****s. And not all of them were black. Intepret it all you like, but that song was about people who were cast out of society. Sure it can be offensive but she made her point come across.

That's all. Carry on.

[Edited 2/16/11 7:02am]

i was wonderin' when you were gonna jump in, homie. hee hee...

I had to. It's like before jumping into conclusions about a song title, read into it first.

To be honest, if you sign with either of them, either get told to change your style or be neglected altogether. Why people still sign with them is my million-dollar question.

Timmy84 said:

To be honest, if you sign with either of them, either get told to change your style or be neglected altogether. Why people still sign with them is my million-dollar question.

yup. especially with these 360 deals, which take your money even from doing live shows. so artists don't even get to keep THAT anymore. wendy day actually wrote a good piece on it.

MJJstudent said:

Timmy84 said:

To be honest, if you sign with either of them, either get told to change your style or be neglected altogether. Why people still sign with them is my million-dollar question.

yup. especially with these 360 deals, which take your money even from doing live shows. so artists don't even get to keep THAT anymore. wendy day actually wrote a good piece on it.

Exactly. You think Madonna will get a decent cut from the deal she signed? Jay-Z's lucky he created a label so he probably don't care.

Timmy84 said:

I have to say something... this is not about who is the "most dangerous" (honestly I'd go with Morris Levy and Nate Tarnopol), but about the Patti Smith song.

She mentioned a lot of people as rock and roll n*****s. And not all of them were black. Intepret it all you like, but that song was about people who were cast out of society. Sure it can be offensive but she made her point come across.

That's all. Carry on.

[Edited 2/16/11 7:02am]

I was hinting that Jimmy Iovine was use to working with artists that freely use both versions of the N-word long before meaning 2pac, Dr. Dre, & Snoop Dogg.

TonyVanDam said:

Timmy84 said:

I have to say something... this is not about who is the "most dangerous" (honestly I'd go with Morris Levy and Nate Tarnopol), but about the Patti Smith song.

She mentioned a lot of people as rock and roll n*****s. And not all of them were black. Intepret it all you like, but that song was about people who were cast out of society. Sure it can be offensive but she made her point come across.

That's all. Carry on.

[Edited 2/16/11 7:02am]

I was hinting that Jimmy Iovine was use to working with artists that freely use both versions of the N-word long before meaning 2pac, Dr. Dre, & Snoop Dogg.

I know you was. But I don't know what that had to say about Jimmy. Tell me who HASN'T associate with someone who said that word. Didn't the Last Poets get promoted by a major label too? I mean, how does that make Jimmy more dangerous than Tommy or Clive?

Timmy84 said:

To be honest, if you sign with either of them, either get told to change your style or be neglected altogether. Why people still sign with them is my million-dollar question.

My first guess is most mainstream artists are too lazy to do an Ani DiFranco by going truly independent, without any backings from the major record labels at all.

TonyVanDam said:

Timmy84 said:

To be honest, if you sign with either of them, either get told to change your style or be neglected altogether. Why people still sign with them is my million-dollar question.

My first guess is most mainstream artists are too lazy to do an Ani DiFranco by going truly independent, without any backings from the major record labels at all.

Might as well call them chickenshits.

Yeah I'm that harsh sometimes.

Timmy84 said:

TonyVanDam said:

I was hinting that Jimmy Iovine was use to working with artists that freely use both versions of the N-word long before meaning 2pac, Dr. Dre, & Snoop Dogg.

I know you was. But I don't know what that had to say about Jimmy. Tell me who HASN'T associate with someone who said that word. Didn't the Last Poets get promoted by a major label too? I mean, how does that make Jimmy more dangerous than Tommy or Clive?

According to Chuck D, Jimmy Iovine has made a lot of money in the past off of rap artists having "n***a beefs". I strong agree with Chuck.

TonyVanDam said:

Timmy84 said:

I know you was. But I don't know what that had to say about Jimmy. Tell me who HASN'T associate with someone who said that word. Didn't the Last Poets get promoted by a major label too? I mean, how does that make Jimmy more dangerous than Tommy or Clive?

According to Chuck D, Jimmy Iovine has made a lot of money in the past off of rap artists having "n***a beefs". I strong agree with Chuck.

That may be true but our very own did that too: Marion Knight anybody??? Sean Combs anybody???

[Edited 2/16/11 7:31am]

Jimmy - don't know about "dangerous" but he's real annoying. And I'll check on signing with someone who smiles on one side of his face and gives you a mean mugging on the other side.

Clive - if you soften your R&B sound, he can make you real popular (Whitney Houston, CHECK).

Tommy - I guess when Michael calls you out on pillaging off of artists, that must mean something because then someone finally had the balls to tell him to "get to stepping".

----

They're real cunning I'll give y'all that.

Timmy84 said:

MJJstudent said:

yup. especially with these 360 deals, which take your money even from doing live shows. so artists don't even get to keep THAT anymore. wendy day actually wrote a good piece on it.

Exactly. You think Madonna will get a decent cut from the deal she signed? Jay-Z's lucky he created a label so he probably don't care.

i think madonna still has some clout; enough to get a major cut. does madonna not have maverick anymore? see how out of the loop i am? but madonna is using autotune at her shows now. i'm like, come ON! i saw some clip where she was singing 'holiday' on autotune.

Timmy84 said:

TonyVanDam said:

I was hinting that Jimmy Iovine was use to working with artists that freely use both versions of the N-word long before meaning 2pac, Dr. Dre, & Snoop Dogg.

I know you was. But I don't know what that had to say about Jimmy. Tell me who HASN'T associate with someone who said that word. Didn't the Last Poets get promoted by a major label too? I mean, how does that make Jimmy more dangerous than Tommy or Clive?

if celluloid is a major label, the sure. hee hee...

MJJstudent said:

Timmy84 said:

Exactly. You think Madonna will get a decent cut from the deal she signed? Jay-Z's lucky he created a label so he probably don't care.

i think madonna still has some clout; enough to get a major cut. does madonna not have maverick anymore? see how out of the loop i am? but madonna is using autotune at her shows now. i'm like, come ON! i saw some clip where she was singing 'holiday' on autotune.

No, Maverick's part of Warner Bros. She allowed them to have it after like a year in court.

MJJstudent said:

Timmy84 said:

I know you was. But I don't know what that had to say about Jimmy. Tell me who HASN'T associate with someone who said that word. Didn't the Last Poets get promoted by a major label too? I mean, how does that make Jimmy more dangerous than Tommy or Clive?

if celluloid is a major label, the sure. hee hee...

They were with Mercury/Polygram but I don't know which label released the one that had N*****s Are Scared of Revolution.

Timmy84 said:

Jimmy - don't know about "dangerous" but he's real annoying. And I'll check on signing with someone who smiles on one side of his face and gives you a mean mugging on the other side.

Clive - if you soften your R&B sound, he can make you real popular (Whitney Houston, CHECK).

Tommy - I guess when Michael calls you out on pillaging off of artists, that must mean something because then someone finally had the balls to tell him to "get to stepping".

----

They're real cunning I'll give y'all that.

HA! especially on the michael bit. the most 'non-threatening' black dude calls out mottola!!! the world is gonna end! people did NOT have his back on that one. that was not cool.

MJJstudent said:

Timmy84 said:

Jimmy - don't know about "dangerous" but he's real annoying. And I'll check on signing with someone who smiles on one side of his face and gives you a mean mugging on the other side.

Clive - if you soften your R&B sound, he can make you real popular (Whitney Houston, CHECK).

Tommy - I guess when Michael calls you out on pillaging off of artists, that must mean something because then someone finally had the balls to tell him to "get to stepping".

----

They're real cunning I'll give y'all that.

HA! especially on the michael bit. the most 'non-threatening' black dude calls out mottola!!! the world is gonna end! people did NOT have his back on that one. that was not cool.

Except Nas. Even Mariah Carey decided not to talk about it lol

Timmy84 said:

MJJstudent said:

if celluloid is a major label, the sure. hee hee...

They were with Mercury/Polygram but I don't know which label released the one that had N*****s Are Scared of Revolution.

douglas records, and then celluloid.

Timmy84 said:

MJJstudent said:

i think madonna still has some clout; enough to get a major cut. does madonna not have maverick anymore? see how out of the loop i am? but madonna is using autotune at her shows now. i'm like, come ON! i saw some clip where she was singing 'holiday' on autotune.

No, Maverick's part of Warner Bros. She allowed them to have it after like a year in court.

aaaaah... didn't know she gave it to them... i thought they just held the distribution rights. thanks for the information.

Timmy84 said:

MJJstudent said:

HA! especially on the michael bit. the most 'non-threatening' black dude calls out mottola!!! the world is gonna end! people did NOT have his back on that one. that was not cool.

Except Nas. Even Mariah Carey decided not to talk about it lol

exactly. mariah was scared. michael even defended irv gotti from mottola... i'm like, yo! really?

MJJstudent said:

Timmy84 said:

Except Nas. Even Mariah Carey decided not to talk about it lol

exactly. mariah was scared. michael even defended irv gotti from mottola... i'm like, yo! really?

Yeah but that didn't really surprise me. Of course when he did it, he was "crazy".

Timmy84 said:

MJJstudent said:

exactly. mariah was scared. michael even defended irv gotti from mottola... i'm like, yo! really?

Yeah but that didn't really surprise me. Of course when he did it, he was "crazy".

they said he was just trying to get attention, because his record wasn't selling. really? why would the man set himself up like that? he was calling out the HEAD OF THE LABEL HE HAD BEEN WITH SINCE 19-70 FRIKIN' 6!!! and michael spoke out about things, but never that strongly about the state of the industry. so when he talks, i suggest people listen. i mean, dood, prince said the same thing, about black artists, and how they should free themselves from white creative ownership. is PRINCE crazy? tupac said it... why do people think michael just sat there and shucked and jived? this is the man that singlehandedly caused the BIGGEST COUP IN THE INDUSTRY by purchasing ATV. and he's sitting there shucking and jiving? please.

when he called mottola a devil, the man was not playing. it was war to him.

[Edited 2/16/11 7:54am]

^ Actually the dude who signed him to CBS was Walter Yetnikoff. When CBS became Sony around 1988, that's when Tommy Motolla came in the picture.

People didn't really expect to get "hosed" in such a grand manner in the past decades. You just didn't have any of that information available as widely as today. Maybe if you went to the right entertainment lawyer he could have told you about all of that, but an artist being fully aware of what actually went into a record deal was fairly rare. So, yes, calling the execs "dangerous" or w/e is not that absurd. Some of them were deliberately misleading the younger artists who didn't know better and just wanted to make music. These days the mainstream / indie -divide is more prominent, but not so much in the past. Besides, you needed money to make a record that sounded good - you couldn't simply install Cubase on your Commodore 64 or Sinclair Spectrum.

Not that I really care about whether an artist like Michael Jackson or Mariah Carey made as money as possible. I'd hardly call either of them "victims". I don't really know enough of any of the three figures either to be able to tell which one of them was the "most dangerous".

An interesting aspect of how companies are run these days is that they often have "temporary CEOs" during the harder times. They'll just hire someone to fire people, to decide on the necessary cut downs, handle the damage control and so on. Once the work is done and that guy is ready to vanish to the background they'll introduce someone more "benign" and "people-oriented" as the figureheard again. So there isn't necessarily a single "mastermind" running it all anymore. A lot of people are involved in that type of a setting.

novabrkr said:

People didn't really expect to get "hosed" in such a grand manner in the past decades. You just didn't have any of that information available as widely as today. Maybe if you went to the right entertainment lawyer he could have told you about all of that, but an artist being fully aware of what actually went into a record deal was fairly rare. So, yes, calling the execs "dangerous" or w/e is not that absurd. Some of them were deliberately misleading the younger artists who didn't know better and just wanted to make music. These days the mainstream / indie -divide is more prominent, but not so much in the past. Besides, you needed money to make a record that sounded good - you couldn't simply install Cubase on your Commodore 64 or Sinclair Spectrum.

Not that I really care about whether an artist like Michael Jackson or Mariah Carey made as money as possible. I'd hardly call either of them "victims". I don't really know enough of any of the three figures either to be able to tell which one of them was the "most dangerous".

An interesting aspect of how companies are run these days is that they often have "temporary CEOs" during the harder times. They'll just hire someone to fire people, to decide on the necessary cut downs, handle the damage control and so on. Once the work is done and that guy is ready to vanish to the background they'll introduce someone more "benign" and "people-oriented" as the figureheard again. So there isn't necessarily a single "mastermind" running it all anymore. A lot of people are involved in that type of a setting.

True.

Timmy84 said:

To be honest, if you sign with either of them, either get told to change your style or be neglected altogether. Why people still sign with them is my million-dollar question.

Dollar signs and fame.

Neversin said:

TonyVanDam said:

Who Is the Most Dangerous Record Label Exec/CEO Ever: Clive Davis, Tommy Mottola, OR Jimmy Iovine?

None of them, it's the people who sign up with them who are fucking it all up and give them power...

Some idiots claim these guys are slaveowners of multimillionaire black products, and yet these multimillionaire black products willingly signed up with them... What a fucking ironic paradox...

Don't blame these bullshit "businessmen" for the stupidity of these RnB (Rap and Bullshit) acts who sign up with them...

Sure they're white guys controlling black music (whatever the fuck that may mean...) but all these idiot acts willingly let them...

The stupidity and ignorance of these acts, who want to make easy money by selling themselves and let themselves be exploited by these so called labeled "white devils", is way more dangerous...

Neversin.

I agree with what you're saying to a point. However, can you honestly say that there's not one label in the entertainment industry that has reneged on their end of the bargain?