MJJstudent said:

ya'll remember this one?

and i'm amazed no one mentioned david geffen... he was on the verge of ruining people's careers as well (including, but not only, cher and michael).

Geffen dated Cher back in the day, to my understanding, but how did he nearly destroyed MJ's career?

MJJstudent said:

ya'll remember this one?

and i'm amazed no one mentioned david geffen... he was on the verge of ruining people's careers as well (including, but not only, cher and michael).

David Geffen biggest f*** up was not knowing how to produce OR promote Donna Summers properly.

[Edited 2/15/11 8:35am]

I'm going to have to go with Jimmy. Clive Davis has made more careers than he's destroyed. He is truly gifted at picking and grooming stars and in effect, he is the MJ (Jackson and/or Jordan) of the record executives. He was great in his generation and once he is gone, there probably won't be another one like him for a long time. In his old age, he's made some bum choices but when he was hot, he had the Midas touch.

Tommy Mottola is a hack exec. He was just Sony's lapdog. He's a go-with-the-flow and stick-to-the-formula type. He knows how to create female pop stars but that's about it. His only real damage is thinking with his dick. He's a dirty mutha in that he will crap on good artists in favor of his female pop star creations but that's pretty much the case with all labels. (Ask Def Jam)

Jimmy Iovine, on the other hand, works for Satan. Seriously, dude is responsible for some underhanded shit. He steers the current trend of bullshit music from behind the curtains like an evil Wizard of Oz. Interscope has crapped on so many good artists it isn't even funny. They are basically the mob with Jimmy as the Don crime boss. They have some of the worst deals in the industry and even though they started out as more of a rap & R&B label, they have branched out to crap on all genres. If you want to blame someone for having a hand in the trend shift of music to shitsville, Jimmy's your man. Damn near everybody signed to them (aside from 50 Cent, and a few others) have had major issues with them and its primarily because of that slimeball James Iovine. If anyone deserves the chopping block, its Jimmy.

[Edited 2/15/11 8:52am]

BlaqueKnight said:

I'm going to have to go with Jimmy. Clive Davis has made more careers than he's destroyed. He is truly gifted at picking and grooming stars and in effect, he is the MJ (Jackson and/or Jordan) of the record executives. He was great in his generation and once he is gone, there probably won't be another one like him for a long time. In his old age, he's made some bum choices but when he was hot, he had the Midas touch.

Tommy Mottola is a hack exec. He was just Sony's lapdog. He's a go-with-the-flow and stick-to-the-formula type. He knows how to create female pop stars but that's about it. His only real damage is thinking with his dick. He's a dirty mutha in that he will crap on good artists in favor of his female pop star creations but that's pretty much the case with all labels. (Ask Def Jam)

Jimmy Iovine, on the other hand, works for Satan. Seriously, dude is responsible for some underhanded shit. He steers the current trend of bullshit music from behind the curtains like an evil Wizard of Oz. Interscope has crapped on so many good artists it isn't even funny. They are basically the mob with Jimmy as the Don crime boss. They have some of the worst deals in the industry and even though they started out as more of a rap & R&B label, they have branched out to crap on all genres. If you want to blame someone for having a hand in the trend shift of music to shitsville, Jimmy's your man. Damn near everybody signed to them (aside from 50 Cent, and a few others) have had major issues with them and its primarily because of that slimeball James Iovine. If anyone deserves the chopping block, its Jimmy.

[Edited 2/15/11 8:52am]

Oh hell yeah Jimmy Iovine is definitely down with The Baphomet. But I don't want to take my own thread off subject taking about Illuminati-driven handlers & pawns today!

But I will say this: Jimmy Iovine was THE only person who was never called out by anyone at the height of the East Coast/West Coast feud with hip-hop in the 1990's. At least Suge Knight mention Clive Davis by name as someone that financially backed Sean Combs during the earlier stages of Bad Boy Entertainment. But no one from either coast dare to mention the name of Jimmy Iovine in the middle of their feud at all. If that isn't a sign of a man some people feared than I don't what is.

And for everyone that feel The Black Eyed Peas were better off until Fergie came along, you need to blame Jimmy Iovine for that too. It was Jimmy that was successful in convincing Will.I.am to have Fergie as a full-time member. Have Jimmy never gotten too involved with the creative side of things, Fergie would have only last on BEPs Elephunk album just singing hook, which was Kim Hill's old chore.

TonyVanDam said:

BlaqueKnight said:

I'm going to have to go with Jimmy. Clive Davis has made more careers than he's destroyed. He is truly gifted at picking and grooming stars and in effect, he is the MJ (Jackson and/or Jordan) of the record executives. He was great in his generation and once he is gone, there probably won't be another one like him for a long time. In his old age, he's made some bum choices but when he was hot, he had the Midas touch.

Tommy Mottola is a hack exec. He was just Sony's lapdog. He's a go-with-the-flow and stick-to-the-formula type. He knows how to create female pop stars but that's about it. His only real damage is thinking with his dick. He's a dirty mutha in that he will crap on good artists in favor of his female pop star creations but that's pretty much the case with all labels. (Ask Def Jam)

Jimmy Iovine, on the other hand, works for Satan. Seriously, dude is responsible for some underhanded shit. He steers the current trend of bullshit music from behind the curtains like an evil Wizard of Oz. Interscope has crapped on so many good artists it isn't even funny. They are basically the mob with Jimmy as the Don crime boss. They have some of the worst deals in the industry and even though they started out as more of a rap & R&B label, they have branched out to crap on all genres. If you want to blame someone for having a hand in the trend shift of music to shitsville, Jimmy's your man. Damn near everybody signed to them (aside from 50 Cent, and a few others) have had major issues with them and its primarily because of that slimeball James Iovine. If anyone deserves the chopping block, its Jimmy.

[Edited 2/15/11 8:52am]

Oh hell yeah Jimmy Iovine is definitely down with The Baphomet. But I don't want to take my own thread off subject taking about Illuminati-driven handlers & pawns today!

But I will say this: Jimmy Iovine was THE only person who was never called out by anyone at the height of the East Coast/West Coast feud with hip-hop in the 1990's. At least Suge Knight mention Clive Davis by name as someone that financially backed Sean Combs during the earlier stages of Bad Boy Entertainment. But no one from either coast dare to mention the name of Jimmy Iovine in the middle of their feud at all. If that isn't a sign of a man some people feared than I don't what is.

And for everyone that feel The Black Eyed Peas were better off until Fergie came along, you need to blame Jimmy Iovine for that too. It was Jimmy that was successful in convincing Will.I.am to have Fergie as a full-time member. Have Jimmy never gotten too involved with the creative side of things, Fergie would have only last on BEPs Elephunk album just singing hook, which was Kim Hill's old chore.

Wow!!!! I didn't know that part! What's the real relationship between Fergie and Jimmy? I only knew her from that slutbot group Wild Orchid and then poof she was gone.

HotGritz said:

TonyVanDam said:

Oh hell yeah Jimmy Iovine is definitely down with The Baphomet. But I don't want to take my own thread off subject taking about Illuminati-driven handlers & pawns today!

But I will say this: Jimmy Iovine was THE only person who was never called out by anyone at the height of the East Coast/West Coast feud with hip-hop in the 1990's. At least Suge Knight mention Clive Davis by name as someone that financially backed Sean Combs during the earlier stages of Bad Boy Entertainment. But no one from either coast dare to mention the name of Jimmy Iovine in the middle of their feud at all. If that isn't a sign of a man some people feared than I don't what is.

And for everyone that feel The Black Eyed Peas were better off until Fergie came along, you need to blame Jimmy Iovine for that too. It was Jimmy that was successful in convincing Will.I.am to have Fergie as a full-time member. Have Jimmy never gotten too involved with the creative side of things, Fergie would have only last on BEPs Elephunk album just singing hook, which was Kim Hill's old chore.

Wow!!!! I didn't know that part! What's the real relationship between Fergie and Jimmy? I only knew her from that slutbot group Wild Orchid and then poof she was gone.

Fergie already knew about BEPs during her final days as a member of Wild Orchid. After leave that group to begin a solo career, Fergie intended to have Will.I.am as one of the producers of her debut album, provided that she agree to take over Kim Hill's role in singing hooks on some tracks for BEPs. It was only after Jimmy Iovine heard the demo versions of the tracks for BEPs' Elephunk album did he talk to Will.I.am and successful convince him to have Fergie as the new 4th member of the group.

BEP was the best thing to have happened to her career. I don't think we would be listening to her today if she weren't a member of that group. Jimmy did her a massive favor.

HotGritz said:

BEP was the best thing to have happened to her career. I don't think we would be listening to her today if she weren't a member of that group. Jimmy did her a massive favor.

.....and the listening public a disservice.

Graycap23 said:

HotGritz said:

BEP was the best thing to have happened to her career. I don't think we would be listening to her today if she weren't a member of that group. Jimmy did her a massive favor.

.....and the listening public a disservice.

PREACH!

I've tried to see the value in her artistry but she leaves me blind.

This is difficult to answer.

Since Iovine has half of the millionaire hiphop/rap artists as his slaves, and that target market is young unemployable men, I'd say Iovine is the most dangerous.

Look at the ideas he's implanted in almost two generations of young men today.

vizionheiry said:

This is difficult to answer.

Since Iovine has half of the millionaire hiphop/rap artists as his slaves, and that target market is young unemployable men, I'd say Iovine is the most dangerous.

Look at the ideas he's implanted in almost two generations of young men today.

Money, Rims, Guns & Hos

Only Mr Iovine truly knows

Just how far the rabbit hole goes

damn I'm good! I need to be rap lyricist or something. get paid in fat stacks o' cash.

HotGritz said:

vizionheiry said:

This is difficult to answer.

Since Iovine has half of the millionaire hiphop/rap artists as his slaves, and that target market is young unemployable men, I'd say Iovine is the most dangerous.

Look at the ideas he's implanted in almost two generations of young men today.

Money, Rims, Guns & Hos

Only Mr Iovine truly knows

Just how far the rabbit hole goes

damn I'm good! I need to be rap lyricist or something. get paid in fat stacks o' cash.

Stay independent & underground. Don't sellout like the BEPs or Jay-Z!

angel345 said:

MJJstudent said:

ya'll remember this one?

and i'm amazed no one mentioned david geffen... he was on the verge of ruining people's careers as well (including, but not only, cher and michael).

Geffen dated Cher back in the day, to my understanding, but how did he nearly destroyed MJ's career?

after michael fired frank dileo, he more or less was left without a manager... in comes geffen and mottola. geffen got sandy gallin (who was geffin's friend, and patti la belle's manager) to manage him as well. this was when the downhill slope began to happen. i gotta say, as much as i DON'T like dileo, he never would have allowed all that stuff that happened to michael to go down. the PR machine would have been working overtime!!! people would have been like, tom sneddon WHO??!!

i truly believe mottola and geffen worked to ruin michael's legacy and career. when michael co-signed for the japanese to own the music devision of CBS, that was a HUUUUUUUGE mis-step. i think he eventually realized that. michael didn't trust anybody, so he agreed to the firing of walter yetnikoff, who backed michael one billion percent at one point. he was one of those dudes who was old school; really into artist development. mottola and them never were.

when mottola stepped in after yetnikoff (as the brand new president of sony) they gave michael these sweet deals; they gave him the boutique label and a bunch in royalties. michael was happy, he thought people were supporting him. but they set him up. it got to the point where he ended up owing SONY money. sony had been eyeing ATV for years. this, i believe was the set-up. when CBS folded into sony, they were no longer into catering to artists' needs. people were products. and michael felt that because he was the biggest-selling artist for sony he was protected. he then realized he got jacked.

and then he was essentially left to fend for himself when he called mottola out. largely because a lot of people i don't think knew what was going on behind the scenes, and the history michael had with sony.

TonyVanDam said:

David Geffen biggest f*** up was not knowing how to produce OR promote Donna Summers properly.

[Edited 2/15/11 8:35am]

heh heh...

TonyVanDam said:

BlaqueKnight said:

I'm going to have to go with Jimmy. Clive Davis has made more careers than he's destroyed. He is truly gifted at picking and grooming stars and in effect, he is the MJ (Jackson and/or Jordan) of the record executives. He was great in his generation and once he is gone, there probably won't be another one like him for a long time. In his old age, he's made some bum choices but when he was hot, he had the Midas touch.

Tommy Mottola is a hack exec. He was just Sony's lapdog. He's a go-with-the-flow and stick-to-the-formula type. He knows how to create female pop stars but that's about it. His only real damage is thinking with his dick. He's a dirty mutha in that he will crap on good artists in favor of his female pop star creations but that's pretty much the case with all labels. (Ask Def Jam)

Jimmy Iovine, on the other hand, works for Satan. Seriously, dude is responsible for some underhanded shit. He steers the current trend of bullshit music from behind the curtains like an evil Wizard of Oz. Interscope has crapped on so many good artists it isn't even funny. They are basically the mob with Jimmy as the Don crime boss. They have some of the worst deals in the industry and even though they started out as more of a rap & R&B label, they have branched out to crap on all genres. If you want to blame someone for having a hand in the trend shift of music to shitsville, Jimmy's your man. Damn near everybody signed to them (aside from 50 Cent, and a few others) have had major issues with them and its primarily because of that slimeball James Iovine. If anyone deserves the chopping block, its Jimmy.

[Edited 2/15/11 8:52am]

Oh hell yeah Jimmy Iovine is definitely down with The Baphomet. But I don't want to take my own thread off subject taking about Illuminati-driven handlers & pawns today!

But I will say this: Jimmy Iovine was THE only person who was never called out by anyone at the height of the East Coast/West Coast feud with hip-hop in the 1990's. At least Suge Knight mention Clive Davis by name as someone that financially backed Sean Combs during the earlier stages of Bad Boy Entertainment. But no one from either coast dare to mention the name of Jimmy Iovine in the middle of their feud at all. If that isn't a sign of a man some people feared than I don't what is.

And for everyone that feel The Black Eyed Peas were better off until Fergie came along, you need to blame Jimmy Iovine for that too. It was Jimmy that was successful in convincing Will.I.am to have Fergie as a full-time member. Have Jimmy never gotten too involved with the creative side of things, Fergie would have only last on BEPs Elephunk album just singing hook, which was Kim Hill's old chore.

i do remember some folks calling iovine out at the time though... him and jerry heller... jerry heller. how come HE'S not mentione- HA! i think there's a whole list of these devils you could come up with.

Surprised Edgar Bronfman Jr's name wasn't in your list.

Azoff, Yetnikoff, and Geffen were "The Troika".

I guess you could say Azoff was responsible for Prince's rebellion against WB, because Mo Ostin went to go work with him.

And no mention of Lyor Cohen?? Kind of surprised.

All time? Morris Levy. "Sopranos" based Hesh on him.

I'm really starting to hate the bullshit double standards around here. One statement from any one person about another does not define them, let alone qualify as a fact. Would you consider yourself defined by one shitty comment?

Jimmy Iovine...

Born in Brooklyn, Iovine began his career as a recording engineer in the mid-1970s, working with John Lennon and Bruce Springsteen. He went on to produce albums for U2 (Rattle & Hum), Tom Petty & The Heartbreakers, Stevie Nicks, Simple Minds, Dire Straits, Flame (featuring Marge Raymond, Jimmy Crespo, Bob Leone, and others), and Patti Smith. Iovine established Interscope Records in 1991 with the release of Gerardo's Mo' Ritmo. It went on to become Interscope-Geffen-A&M following Universal's acquisition of PolyGram when Iovine was named co-chairman; in 2001, he became chairman.

He is credited with having given Eminem's demo tape to Dr. Dre, who signed him to his Aftermath label. In 2002, Iovine co-produced the hit Eminem movie 8 Mile and in 2004, he and Paul Rosenberg signed a first-look feature deal with Paramount Pictures and MTV Films for their Interscope/Shady/Aftermath banner. Iovine co-produced the first film under the deal, Get Rich or Die Tryin', starring 50 Cent. In January 2008, Iovine, Dr. Dre and Monster Cable released "Beats by Dr. Dre" high-performance headphones. In 2003, he was co-executive producer of Enrique Iglesias's album Seven. Iovine is also an executive producer with LeBron James and Maverick Carter of the documentary More Than A Game, which was released in the fall of 2009.

Lady Gaga has thanked him several times during her acceptance speeches, as he was the one to sign her to Streamline/Interscope shortly after her 2007 performance at Lollapalooza.

Clive Davis

Early life and career: The CBS years

Davis was born in Brooklyn, New York to a Jewish family, the son of Herman and Florence Davis. After spending four of his earliest years in England, Davis was raised in the middle-class neighborhood of Crown Heights, Brooklyn. He received a full scholarship to New York University College of Arts and Science, where he graduated magna cum laude, Phi Beta Kappa in 1953. He then received a full scholarship to Harvard Law School, where he was a member of the Board of Student Advisers and graduated in 1956. He practiced law in a small firm in New York, then moved on to the firm of Rosenman, Colin, Kaye, Petschek, and Freund two years later, where partner Ralph Colin had CBS as client. Hired by a former colleague at the firm, Harvey Schein, Davis became assistant counsel of CBS subsidiary Columbia Records at the age of twenty-eight.^[4]

Davis became a protégé of CBS Records President Goddard Lieberson, and began to climb the ranks of Columbia/CBS. In 1967, he became president of Columbia Records and became interested in the newest generation of folk rock and rock and roll. One of his earliest pop signings was the British folk-rock musician Donovan, who enjoyed a string of successful hit singles and albums released in the USA on the Epic label.

In June 1967, at the urging of his friend and business associate Lou Adler, Davis attended the Monterey Pop Festival. He immediately signed Janis Joplin with Big Brother & the Holding Company, and Columbia went on to sign Laura Nyro, Jimmie Spheeris, Electric Flag, Santana, The Chambers Brothers, Bruce Springsteen, Andy Pratt, Chicago, Billy Joel, Blood, Sweat & Tears, and Pink Floyd. The company, which had previously avoided rock music (its few rock acts prior to the Davis presidency included The Byrds, Simon & Garfunkel, and Paul Revere and the Raiders), doubled its market share in three years. One of the biggest recordings released during Davis' tenure at Columbia was Lynn Anderson's "Rose Garden", in late 1970. It was Davis who insisted "Rose Garden" be the country singer's next single release. The song reached number one in 16 countries around the world and remained the biggest selling album by a female country artist between 1971 and 1997.

In 1972, Davis also signed Iggy Pop and Earth, Wind & Fire to Columbia Records; he also launched a kind of talent raid in which, over the next two years, he signed established or semi-established acts whose previous record deals were expiring, acts that included Mott the Hoople, Ten Years After, The Rascals, and Pink Floyd. One of his most recognized accomplishments was signing the Boston group Aerosmith to Columbia Records in the early 70s at New York City's Max's Kansas City, which was mentioned in the 1979 Aerosmith song "No Surprise", where Steven Tyler sings "Old Clive Davis said he's surely gonna make you a star, just the way you are".^[5] Starting on December 30, 1978,^[6] Bob Weir of The Grateful Dead occasionally changed the lyrics of the Dead standard Jack Straw in concert from "we used to play for silver, now we play for life", to "we used to play for acid now we play for Clive".

[edit] The Arista years

After Davis was fired from CBS Records for using company funds to bankroll his son's bar mitzvah,^[7]Columbia Pictures (at the time unrelated to Columbia Records) hired him to be a consultant for the company's record and music operations. After taking time out to write his memoirs, he was offered the presidency of the division in late 1974.^[8] Davis subsequently merged the various labels – Colpix Records, Colgems Records and Bell Records – into a new entity named Arista Records, ultimately buying a percentage of the company from Columbia Pictures. The label was named Arista after New York City's secondary school honor society (of which Davis was a member). Davis was brought to the attention of a young unknown singer named Whitney Houston at a New York City nightclub. Impressed with what he heard, Davis signed the singer to Arista Records. Houston would become one of the biggest selling artists in music history under the guidance of Davis at Arista Records. Davis was featured in the February 21, 2008 (1046) issue of Rolling Stone. The article titled "The Last Record Man" discusses how Davis has helped guide the careers of hit artists and how even four decades later he still looks for the next hit.

Tommy Mottola

Early career

As one of the most highly regarded and influential executives in the worldwide media, entertainment and communications business, Thomas D. Mottola most recently served as Chairman and CEO Sony Music Entertainment. During his tenure, he transformed Sony and its 18,000 employees into the most successful global music companies in history, expanding its businesses and all of its manufacturing facilities into over 60 countries, while creating one of the strongest management teams in the industry. Moreover, he revitalized Sony Music's publishing division by making such acquisitions as the Beatles catalogue and enabled Sony to become the first major music company to make available commercial digital downloads. He is widely well-known for signing, developing, and nurturing the careers of Celine Dion, Mariah Carey, Beyonce, Jennifer Lopez, Ricky Martin, Gloria Estefan, Shakira, Dixie Chicks, Marc Anthony, Barbra Streisand, Bruce Springsteen, Billy Joel, and Harry Connick Jr., among many others.

Mottola was born in Bronx, New York. He graduated from Iona Grammar School in 1962 and Iona Preparatory School in New Rochelle, New York in 1966. He briefly attended Hofstra University in Hempstead, New York before dropping out. He initially had aspirations of a music career, and released with CBS Records, but his singing career was short-lived.

Wishing to stay in the industry, Mottola started Champion Entertainment Organization Inc. to manage other artists. While working at the Chappell music-publishing company, he became the mentor to Philadelphia-based soul/rock performers Daryl Hall and John Oates.

His belief in the duo led him to push them relentlessly to do appearances and advertising promotions, including some of the first specialized music videos and one of the first modern "sponsored tours," for Beech-Nut's Care Free Gum, Panasonic, and Pontiac..

Hall & Oates paid tribute to him in their track "Gino (the Manager)" on their self-titled 1975 RCA release, better known as the Silver Album. Mottola also figured—this time, being mentioned by name—in "Cherchez La Femme," the 1976 dance hit by another Mottola act, Dr. Buzzard's Original Savannah Band. ("Tommy Mottola / Lives on the road ...")

Raised as a Roman Catholic, Mottola converted to Judaism shortly before his marriage to Lisa Clark. That marriage, which ended in divorce in 1992, produced a daughter (Sarah) and a son (Michael, who is now a production assistant with MTV).^[3]

Brisbane rock band Regurgitator wrote a tribute song to him called "I Love Tommy Mottola" for their 1999 album "...Art".

[edit] CBS

Mr. Mottola was named President of Sony (formerly CBS Records) in 1988 at age 37, making him the youngest President in CBS history. In 1993 he was named Chairman and CEO of Sony Music Entertainment Worldwide. Under Mottola's leadership, Sony revenues skyrocketed from $800 million to over $7 billion a year, creating the largest sales in the history of the company. In 1987, Mottola was chosen to run CBS Records at the age of 37.

Soon afterward, Sony Corporation closed on its deal to buy the CBS Records group unit from CBS, naming him President and CEO of the music division, where he succeeded his former mentor Walter Yetnikoff, who had originally brought Mottola into CBS. Mottola served as Chairman and CEO Sony Music Entertainment.

[edit] Sony

During his tenure, he transformed Sony into one of the most successful global music companies, expanding its businesses into over 60 countries, while creating one of the strongest management teams in the industry. He revitalized Sony Music's publishing division by making such acquisitions as the Beatles catalogue and enabled Sony to become the first major music company to make available commercial digital downloads. He is widely well-known for signing, developing, and nurturing the careers of Mariah Carey, Celine Dion, Destiny's Child, Jennifer Lopez, Shakira, Gloria Estefan, the Dixie Chicks, Marc Anthony, Barbra Streisand, Bruce Springsteen, Billy Joel, among others.

dalsh327 said:

Surprised Edgar Bronfman Jr's name wasn't in your list.

Azoff, Yetnikoff, and Geffen were "The Troika".

I guess you could say Azoff was responsible for Prince's rebellion against WB, because Mo Ostin went to go work with him.

And no mention of Lyor Cohen?? Kind of surprised.

All time? Morris Levy. "Sopranos" based Hesh on him.

see, i'm telling you, there's a whole list of these devils. yetnikoff wasn't an angel either (here we go with the mob again), but he was more supportive of people like michael and springstein than mottola or any of these people today are. in many ways, geffen worked against yetnikoff too... azoff, bronfman... DEFINITELY. we could get into the seagram's takeover of island/def jam or whatever it's called today. universal seems to own everything, if sony/BMG or warners don't. all these people running the industry are gangsters. they just hire people to speak for them, and call it 'thug music'. because real gangsters don't speak.

and LYOR COHEN!!! oh, dear lord. this needs a special, SPECIAL thread... HA!

TonyVanDam said:

Who Is the Most Dangerous Record Label Exec/CEO Ever: Clive Davis, Tommy Mottola, OR Jimmy Iovine?

None of them, it's the people who sign up with them who are fucking it all up and give them power...

Some idiots claim these guys are slaveowners of multimillionaire black products, and yet these multimillionaire black products willingly signed up with them... What a fucking ironic paradox...

Don't blame these bullshit "businessmen" for the stupidity of these RnB (Rap and Bullshit) acts who sign up with them...

Sure they're white guys controlling black music (whatever the fuck that may mean...) but all these idiot acts willingly let them...

The stupidity and ignorance of these acts, who want to make easy money by selling themselves and let themselves be exploited by these so called labeled "white devils", is way more dangerous...

Neversin.

Cerebus said:

I'm really starting to hate the bullshit double standards around here. One statement from any one person about another does not define them, let alone qualify as a fact. Would you consider yourself defined by one shitty comment?

i gotta say, i'm confused by what you mean when you say 'double standards'... from all the comments i see, i see consistency. i'm not seeing anyone critique, say, iovine, when mottola gets off free.

nevertheless, the thread is open so people can state their views. it's all relative. whether or not we like what these people do, they are making money off the backs of people's talents. it seems to me that davis and them guided people like whitney houston is because they were guided by money. these people- just like berry gordy- go with whatever is lucrative at the time.

ultimately, one person's devil is another person's angel, right? you may find mottola, iovine and davis to be great men. you are entitled to your opinion. apparently, the people speaking on this forum feel differently. we're all shaping our views according to how we prefer art to be. and for many, it's not run by the likes of the three named above. i mean, people have been complaining about clive davis since gil scott-heron got sacked from arista. scott-heron and brian jackson were the first artists on the label. then people complained because of how he developed whitney houston. it was as if, like gordy, davis didn't want to take risks. he just wanted the pop hits. the opposite of people like davis are seymour stein, who picked up all sorts of acts for sire... everything from madonna to the ramones; or even richard branson or chris blackwell. these dudes aren't perfect either, but creatively they took more risks. people had issues with geffen for years. this conversation isn't new. we're just having it in this format.

Neversin said:

TonyVanDam said:

Who Is the Most Dangerous Record Label Exec/CEO Ever: Clive Davis, Tommy Mottola, OR Jimmy Iovine?

None of them, it's the people who sign up with them who are fucking it all up and give them power...

Some idiots claim these guys are slaveowners of multimillionaire black products, and yet these multimillionaire black products willingly signed up with them... What a fucking ironic paradox...

Don't blame these bullshit "businessmen" for the stupidity of these RnB (Rap and Bullshit) acts who sign up with them...

Sure they're white guys controlling black music (whatever the fuck that may mean...) but all these idiot acts willingly let them...

The stupidity and ignorance of these acts, who want to make easy money by selling themselves and let themselves be exploited by these so called labeled "white devils", is way more dangerous...

Neversin.

however, you're not looking at the history of these three (or more) executives; they didn't originally begin doing hip hop. people have been complaining about davis, mottola and iovine before bad boy, aftermath, etc.

i mean, we could look at the history of vee jay records... which was black owne... and how they basically were bankrupted by capitol, who were going to overtake them with the beatles thing. white executives have ALWAYS been doing this. sam phillips... whoever. this is nothing new.

Neversin said:

TonyVanDam said:

Who Is the Most Dangerous Record Label Exec/CEO Ever: Clive Davis, Tommy Mottola, OR Jimmy Iovine?

None of them, it's the people who sign up with them who are fucking it all up and give them power...

Some idiots claim these guys are slaveowners of multimillionaire black products, and yet these multimillionaire black products willingly signed up with them... What a fucking ironic paradox...

Don't blame these bullshit "businessmen" for the stupidity of these RnB (Rap and Bullshit) acts who sign up with them...

Sure they're white guys controlling black music (whatever the fuck that may mean...) but all these idiot acts willingly let them...

The stupidity and ignorance of these acts, who want to make easy money by selling themselves and let themselves be exploited by these so called labeled "white devils", is way more dangerous...

Neversin.

Ah, the old "blame the victim" routine, eh? Sure, an artist has to accept responsibility for their own fate but its a HUGE stretch to say don't blame the people deliberately trying to get over on you. The business is designed to go against artists. Even artists' own lawyers have screwed them and cut side deals with labels before. You can't complain that an artist isn't able to negotiate a contract with some of the best lawyers in existence while at the same time focusing on their art and perfecting their craft. They hire people but the people that some artists hire are the same ones working against them. Some artists go indie and stay indie. If you are going to play on the national field, labels are the most plausible way in unless you have a great attention-getting scheme of your own and are able to implement it without having a bundle of money.

And yeah Liar Cohen is among the worst of the bunch, too.

MJJstudent said:

however, you're not looking at the history of these three (or more) executives; they didn't originally begin doing hip hop. people have been complaining about davis, mottola and iovine before bad boy, aftermath, etc.

i mean, we could look at the history of vee jay records... which was black owne... and how they basically were bankrupted by capitol, who were going to overtake them with the beatles thing. white executives have ALWAYS been doing this. sam phillips... whoever. this is nothing new.

That's not the point I was making...

These guys were/are given power by these ignorant acts (be it hip-hop acts or whatever...) who weren't/aren't able to put 1 and 1 together... So if you want to complain about someone, complain about the idiots supporting them...

This is just pure politics, people complain about or blame some figurehead while they themselves put that figurehead in place...

Neversin.

BlaqueKnight said:

You can't complain that an artist isn't able to negotiate a contract with some of the best lawyers in existence while at the same time focusing on their art and perfecting their craft. They hire people but the people that some artists hire are the same ones working against them.

case in point: michael jackson. he got screwed over so many times. because he was too busy trying to 'perfect his craft' that he had people like john branca working for him, then he ended up filing a lawsuit against branca because of the 'conflict of interest' issue. branca was fired in 2003. HOW COME BRANCA IS RUNNING THE FREAKING ESTATE NOW??!!

as much as i love michael (and everybody knows this) i have no qualms with calling homeboy out... he signed his life away towards the end of his life. he gave sony first right of refusal for his stuff. i mean, DID HE EVER READ THE CONTRACTS??!! he's actually admitted at some points that he did not read them in full. grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.... i mean, he said in a DEPOSITION that he did not know where his money went. HELLOOOOO??!! maybe he was being an ass, but i don't think so.

he wanted out of his sony contract, and he tried to fight for the FULL RIGHTS to his music back. but they were like, 'um... no. you got a few more years till THAT ends, homie." guess when he would've gotten the full rights back? 2009.

he thought mottola and them had his back, because he was the highest grossing artist for sony. he thought they would protect him while he honed his craft. then he finally saw what these devils do. then you got mottola going on tv shortly after michael's transition and saying he's the 'gatekeeper' for michael's music? HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAIIIIIIIIL NAW!!!

michael learned the hard way. i am gonna give prince major props here. (yeah... SO WHAT! HA!) HOWEVER, michael DID stage the largest coup in the music industry (and i'm not talking about thriller). he had the ace card. and sony is doing their best to attain as much of it as possible.

Neversin said:

MJJstudent said:

however, you're not looking at the history of these three (or more) executives; they didn't originally begin doing hip hop. people have been complaining about davis, mottola and iovine before bad boy, aftermath, etc.

i mean, we could look at the history of vee jay records... which was black owne... and how they basically were bankrupted by capitol, who were going to overtake them with the beatles thing. white executives have ALWAYS been doing this. sam phillips... whoever. this is nothing new.

That's not the point I was making...

These guys were/are given power by these ignorant acts (be it hip-hop acts or whatever...) who weren't/aren't able to put 1 and 1 together... So if you want to complain about someone, complain about the idiots supporting them...

This is just pure politics, people complain about or blame some figurehead while they themselves put that figurehead in place...

Neversin.

in that case, by your argument many people who support obama (and anyone in the two major political parties) are idiots then. i'm just sayin'. i agree with you on the 'figurehead' comment in relation to u.s. political strategies. however, i don't see a comparison when it comes to the heads of record companies, since 'the people' don't vote for clive davis to run a company. for some of these dudes, they go bankrupt than find money to start up some other company. it's private enterprise.

you have to look at the circumstances. unfortunately, a lot of people are lured into this industry without knowing the history and the ins and outs. in order for anything to change you have to uproot the system put in place. this means, calling out those who run these companies/governments/whatever, and taking charge for yourself (props to egypt for making attempts to do this).

we live in a corporatist society, where people are swayed by how the market works. you have to change how that market works, in order to see true progress.

so, if there is bad service at a restaurant, who is the first person you want to speak to? the manager, right? you're not gonna say 'i need to speak to your co-workers'. this is the same thing. the workers could always get fired, but the system is always going to be the same if the basis of that business doesn't change.

so blaming the 'idiots' or the artists don't change anything, until the system which spits out those artists gets uprooted.

BlaqueKnight said:

Ah, the old "blame the victim" routine, eh? Sure, an artist has to accept responsibility for their own fate but its a HUGE stretch to say don't blame the people deliberately trying to get over on you.

They're not victims...

They get paid for whatever they willingly signed on to do...

I know they're deliberately getting screwed over, but they accepted that when they signed on...

BlaqueKnight said:

The business is designed to go against artists. Even artists' own lawyers have screwed them and cut side deals with labels before. You can't complain that an artist isn't able to negotiate a contract with some of the best lawyers in existence while at the same time focusing on their art and perfecting their craft. They hire people but the people that some artists hire are the same ones working against them.

If they really give a shit about their so called art (which most of them don't since they only sign on to a label for the money and not for the art, so don't be so naive...) they would take the time to handle their contracts in support of their art and don't let suits run their art for them...

BlaqueKnight said:

Some artists go indie and stay indie. If you are going to play on the national field, labels are the most plausible way in unless you have a great attention-getting scheme of your own and are able to implement it without having a bundle of money.

Again, art isn't about money... These people you call "victims" willingly sell themselves and their so called art...

BlaqueKnight said:

So, GTFOH with that "blame the victim" shyt. Its way deeper than you understand if you think its as simple as out-negotiating the top lawyers in the industry, which is a task unto itself.

And yeah Liar Cohen is among the worst of the bunch, too.

There is no victim, only people who willingly let themselves get screwed over and later complain about it without acknowledging their ignorance...

Neversin.

MJJstudent said:

in that case, by your argument many people who support obama (and anyone in the two major political parties) are idiots then.

Yes indeed they are...

MJJstudent said:

i'm just sayin'. i agree with you on the 'figurehead' comment in relation to u.s. political strategies. however, i don't see a comparison when it comes to the heads of record companies, since 'the people' don't vote for clive davis to run a company. for some of these dudes, they go bankrupt than find money to start up some other company. it's private enterprise.

Sure they don't vote for these suits, but they do support them and their habit by joining them...

MJJstudent said:

you have to look at the circumstances. unfortunately, a lot of people are lured into this industry without knowing the history and the ins and outs.

Exactly... And that's the problem... These people just let themselves be blinded by the money thrown at them...

MJJstudent said:

in order for anything to change you have to uproot the system put in place. this means, calling out those who run these companies/governments/whatever, and taking charge for yourself (props to egypt for making attempts to do this).

You're preaching to the choir here... But this is not the case here, these artists will not bite the hand that feeds them and will keep on letting themselves be exploited for a buck...

Neversin.

MJJstudent said:

TonyVanDam said:

Oh hell yeah Jimmy Iovine is definitely down with The Baphomet. But I don't want to take my own thread off subject taking about Illuminati-driven handlers & pawns today!

But I will say this: Jimmy Iovine was THE only person who was never called out by anyone at the height of the East Coast/West Coast feud with hip-hop in the 1990's. At least Suge Knight mention Clive Davis by name as someone that financially backed Sean Combs during the earlier stages of Bad Boy Entertainment. But no one from either coast dare to mention the name of Jimmy Iovine in the middle of their feud at all. If that isn't a sign of a man some people feared than I don't what is.

And for everyone that feel The Black Eyed Peas were better off until Fergie came along, you need to blame Jimmy Iovine for that too. It was Jimmy that was successful in convincing Will.I.am to have Fergie as a full-time member. Have Jimmy never gotten too involved with the creative side of things, Fergie would have only last on BEPs Elephunk album just singing hook, which was Kim Hill's old chore.

i do remember some folks calling iovine out at the time though... him and jerry heller... jerry heller. how come HE'S not mentione- HA! i think there's a whole list of these devils you could come up with.

Remember Suge Knight's former lawyer David Kenner? The last time he was seen within the music industry was right before Suge laid him off, out of inspiration of what 2pac was saying about Death Row Records needed to be black-owned on a full-time basic and not rely on some people that don't have the best interest of black artists at heart. After 2pac's murder, no one has seen or heard about David Kenner since. Why is that?

TonyVanDam said:

MJJstudent said:

i do remember some folks calling iovine out at the time though... him and jerry heller... jerry heller. how come HE'S not mentione- HA! i think there's a whole list of these devils you could come up with.

Remember Suge Knight's former lawyer David Kenner? The last time he was seen within the music industry was right before Suge laid him off, out of inspiration of what 2pac was saying about Death Row Records needed to be black-owned on a full-time basic and not rely on some people that don't have the best interest of black artists at heart. After 2pac's murder, no one has seen or heard about David Kenner since. Why is that?

good question.

Cerebus said:

I'm really starting to hate the bullshit double standards around here. One statement from any one person about another does not define them, let alone qualify as a fact. Would you consider yourself defined by one shitty comment?

Jimmy Iovine...

Born in Brooklyn, Iovine began his career as a recording engineer in the mid-1970s, working with John Lennon and Bruce Springsteen. He went on to produce albums for U2 (Rattle & Hum), Tom Petty & The Heartbreakers, Stevie Nicks, Simple Minds, Dire Straits, Flame (featuring Marge Raymond, Jimmy Crespo, Bob Leone, and others), and Patti Smith. Iovine established Interscope Records in 1991 with the release of Gerardo's Mo' Ritmo. It went on to become Interscope-Geffen-A&M following Universal's acquisition of PolyGram when Iovine was named co-chairman; in 2001, he became chairman.

He is credited with having given Eminem's demo tape to Dr. Dre, who signed him to his Aftermath label. In 2002, Iovine co-produced the hit Eminem movie 8 Mile and in 2004, he and Paul Rosenberg signed a first-look feature deal with Paramount Pictures and MTV Films for their Interscope/Shady/Aftermath banner. Iovine co-produced the first film under the deal, Get Rich or Die Tryin', starring 50 Cent. In January 2008, Iovine, Dr. Dre and Monster Cable released "Beats by Dr. Dre" high-performance headphones. In 2003, he was co-executive producer of Enrique Iglesias's album Seven. Iovine is also an executive producer with LeBron James and Maverick Carter of the documentary More Than A Game, which was released in the fall of 2009.

Lady Gaga has thanked him several times during her acceptance speeches, as he was the one to sign her to Streamline/Interscope shortly after her 2007 performance at Lollapalooza.

Clive Davis

Early life and career: The CBS years

Davis was born in Brooklyn, New York to a Jewish family, the son of Herman and Florence Davis. After spending four of his earliest years in England, Davis was raised in the middle-class neighborhood of Crown Heights, Brooklyn. He received a full scholarship to New York University College of Arts and Science, where he graduated magna cum laude, Phi Beta Kappa in 1953. He then received a full scholarship to Harvard Law School, where he was a member of the Board of Student Advisers and graduated in 1956. He practiced law in a small firm in New York, then moved on to the firm of Rosenman, Colin, Kaye, Petschek, and Freund two years later, where partner Ralph Colin had CBS as client. Hired by a former colleague at the firm, Harvey Schein, Davis became assistant counsel of CBS subsidiary Columbia Records at the age of twenty-eight.^[4]

Davis became a protégé of CBS Records President Goddard Lieberson, and began to climb the ranks of Columbia/CBS. In 1967, he became president of Columbia Records and became interested in the newest generation of folk rock and rock and roll. One of his earliest pop signings was the British folk-rock musician Donovan, who enjoyed a string of successful hit singles and albums released in the USA on the Epic label.

In June 1967, at the urging of his friend and business associate Lou Adler, Davis attended the Monterey Pop Festival. He immediately signed Janis Joplin with Big Brother & the Holding Company, and Columbia went on to sign Laura Nyro, Jimmie Spheeris, Electric Flag, Santana, The Chambers Brothers, Bruce Springsteen, Andy Pratt, Chicago, Billy Joel, Blood, Sweat & Tears, and Pink Floyd. The company, which had previously avoided rock music (its few rock acts prior to the Davis presidency included The Byrds, Simon & Garfunkel, and Paul Revere and the Raiders), doubled its market share in three years. One of the biggest recordings released during Davis' tenure at Columbia was Lynn Anderson's "Rose Garden", in late 1970. It was Davis who insisted "Rose Garden" be the country singer's next single release. The song reached number one in 16 countries around the world and remained the biggest selling album by a female country artist between 1971 and 1997.

In 1972, Davis also signed Iggy Pop and Earth, Wind & Fire to Columbia Records; he also launched a kind of talent raid in which, over the next two years, he signed established or semi-established acts whose previous record deals were expiring, acts that included Mott the Hoople, Ten Years After, The Rascals, and Pink Floyd. One of his most recognized accomplishments was signing the Boston group Aerosmith to Columbia Records in the early 70s at New York City's Max's Kansas City, which was mentioned in the 1979 Aerosmith song "No Surprise", where Steven Tyler sings "Old Clive Davis said he's surely gonna make you a star, just the way you are".^[5] Starting on December 30, 1978,^[6] Bob Weir of The Grateful Dead occasionally changed the lyrics of the Dead standard Jack Straw in concert from "we used to play for silver, now we play for life", to "we used to play for acid now we play for Clive".

[edit] The Arista years

After Davis was fired from CBS Records for using company funds to bankroll his son's bar mitzvah,^[7]Columbia Pictures (at the time unrelated to Columbia Records) hired him to be a consultant for the company's record and music operations. After taking time out to write his memoirs, he was offered the presidency of the division in late 1974.^[8] Davis subsequently merged the various labels – Colpix Records, Colgems Records and Bell Records – into a new entity named Arista Records, ultimately buying a percentage of the company from Columbia Pictures. The label was named Arista after New York City's secondary school honor society (of which Davis was a member). Davis was brought to the attention of a young unknown singer named Whitney Houston at a New York City nightclub. Impressed with what he heard, Davis signed the singer to Arista Records. Houston would become one of the biggest selling artists in music history under the guidance of Davis at Arista Records. Davis was featured in the February 21, 2008 (1046) issue of Rolling Stone. The article titled "The Last Record Man" discusses how Davis has helped guide the careers of hit artists and how even four decades later he still looks for the next hit.

Tommy Mottola

Early career

As one of the most highly regarded and influential executives in the worldwide media, entertainment and communications business, Thomas D. Mottola most recently served as Chairman and CEO Sony Music Entertainment. During his tenure, he transformed Sony and its 18,000 employees into the most successful global music companies in history, expanding its businesses and all of its manufacturing facilities into over 60 countries, while creating one of the strongest management teams in the industry. Moreover, he revitalized Sony Music's publishing division by making such acquisitions as the Beatles catalogue and enabled Sony to become the first major music company to make available commercial digital downloads. He is widely well-known for signing, developing, and nurturing the careers of Celine Dion, Mariah Carey, Beyonce, Jennifer Lopez, Ricky Martin, Gloria Estefan, Shakira, Dixie Chicks, Marc Anthony, Barbra Streisand, Bruce Springsteen, Billy Joel, and Harry Connick Jr., among many others.

Mottola was born in Bronx, New York. He graduated from Iona Grammar School in 1962 and Iona Preparatory School in New Rochelle, New York in 1966. He briefly attended Hofstra University in Hempstead, New York before dropping out. He initially had aspirations of a music career, and released with CBS Records, but his singing career was short-lived.

Wishing to stay in the industry, Mottola started Champion Entertainment Organization Inc. to manage other artists. While working at the Chappell music-publishing company, he became the mentor to Philadelphia-based soul/rock performers Daryl Hall and John Oates.

His belief in the duo led him to push them relentlessly to do appearances and advertising promotions, including some of the first specialized music videos and one of the first modern "sponsored tours," for Beech-Nut's Care Free Gum, Panasonic, and Pontiac..

Hall & Oates paid tribute to him in their track "Gino (the Manager)" on their self-titled 1975 RCA release, better known as the Silver Album. Mottola also figured—this time, being mentioned by name—in "Cherchez La Femme," the 1976 dance hit by another Mottola act, Dr. Buzzard's Original Savannah Band. ("Tommy Mottola / Lives on the road ...")

Raised as a Roman Catholic, Mottola converted to Judaism shortly before his marriage to Lisa Clark. That marriage, which ended in divorce in 1992, produced a daughter (Sarah) and a son (Michael, who is now a production assistant with MTV).^[3]

Brisbane rock band Regurgitator wrote a tribute song to him called "I Love Tommy Mottola" for their 1999 album "...Art".

[edit] CBS

Mr. Mottola was named President of Sony (formerly CBS Records) in 1988 at age 37, making him the youngest President in CBS history. In 1993 he was named Chairman and CEO of Sony Music Entertainment Worldwide. Under Mottola's leadership, Sony revenues skyrocketed from $800 million to over $7 billion a year, creating the largest sales in the history of the company. In 1987, Mottola was chosen to run CBS Records at the age of 37.

Soon afterward, Sony Corporation closed on its deal to buy the CBS Records group unit from CBS, naming him President and CEO of the music division, where he succeeded his former mentor Walter Yetnikoff, who had originally brought Mottola into CBS. Mottola served as Chairman and CEO Sony Music Entertainment.

[edit] Sony

During his tenure, he transformed Sony into one of the most successful global music companies, expanding its businesses into over 60 countries, while creating one of the strongest management teams in the industry. He revitalized Sony Music's publishing division by making such acquisitions as the Beatles catalogue and enabled Sony to become the first major music company to make available commercial digital downloads. He is widely well-known for signing, developing, and nurturing the careers of Mariah Carey, Celine Dion, Destiny's Child, Jennifer Lopez, Shakira, Gloria Estefan, the Dixie Chicks, Marc Anthony, Barbra Streisand, Bruce Springsteen, Billy Joel, among others.

Most of us are fully aware of the great things that Clive, Tommy, & Jimmy has done within the music industry. But lets not overlook the fact that the way they did business sometimes were also pretty damn shady.