kibbles said:

MOL said:

The investigators concluded MJ was not an addict. A passage of their conclusion documents reads as following: "Michael Jackson, deceased, was not taking the prescribed amounts of medication for various ailments (listed in the Coroner's official autopsy report, let alone abusing them as opposed to what sources, namely Steven, Latoya, Maureen and Joseph Jackson, kept telling us."

In the documents, the investigators also let it be known that NONE of the doctors MJ had was overprescribing him with drugs and that his "drug history" had no evidence of abuse. So how was he an addict? Addicted to what? How? When?

It's clear as water: the Jacksons call MJ an addict so the blame of his death can be shifted to AEG so they can sue it and get a payday.

And I could go on. These Jacksons trully are morally and intelectually inferior. I just love it when they complain they're not respected. Of course they're not respected!

i cannot wait until murray's defense team calls this 'family' to the stand.

i cannot wait either, but it may be for different reasons than you.

the thing is though, michael acknowledged his addiction (or dependence) on painkillers when he did that video at neverland in 1993. he also was flown to england in the late '90s to deal with said dependence/addiction. he even thanks elton john (who helped him at that time) on the 'blood on the dance floor' record. we cannot deny he had a dependence at some point in his life. we gotta keep it real here.

i do not know why he was seeing klein in between that time and 2009, and many of us may never know. we only see what is presented to us; but it's obvious that is only what we are 'supposed' to see. the fact is though; the drugs that were in his system were the ones murray gave to him. this is what i think should be discussed. whether or not he was an addict i think is beside the point, since it's already been established in the autopsy that the drugs he did claim to be addicted to (and benzos are indeed addictive) were not in his system. if michael's blood relatives cannot prove he was an addict and that they tried to help him, then they lost their case.

they shouldn't be putting their business out there in the street anyways. if they were trying to help him, i can see why he did not take it. as private as michael was, how they went about it was not helpful.

as i keep stating, i think everyone (AEG, sony and the family) are all guilty in one form or another. i do not take sides.

DIAMONDGEEZA said:

all i can say is that last years MICHAEL cd was a damn disappointment.I bet MJ wouldnt have liked it released in the state it was in.if i could get my £10 back i would ask for it.Invincible was better and that was more diabolical than one of saddam hussiens chemical weapons.i just wish things had ended on a better note for michael.Dangerous was his last decent listen.

i concur... invincible WAS better. i heard the leaked edition of that 'michael' album on the sony site. it's the worse album i have ever heard in my life, for many reasons. i haven't purchased any posthumous michael materials. i think what is going on is a huge symbol of dis-respect to him, on all counts. i believe sony has purposefully worked to diminish his legacy, by planting various scenerios (such as the 'fake or not fake' debate). it's a worthless distraction.

SherryJackson said:

PatrickS77 said:

Exactly! I'm so tired of people dismissing HIStory! It's a great album!

I've said it before I'll say it again...some of Michael Jackson's best works came out in the 90's. What a shame the rest of the world (aside from long time, hardcore fans) can name any albums after Bad.

no they can't. and it is a shame. is this due to our fascination with instantaneous culture? who knows.

MJJstudent said:

dag said:

Too cute.

[img:$uid]http://img191.i.../img:$uid]

i have nightmares watching this video. it reminds me of a gang-rape fantasy clip. the way tatiana was cornered by walls of men, and being chased... the imagery of her wearing a short, tight dress does not help the situation either. i can't listen to the song now because of it. for me, it is NOT amusing.

What? What the hell are you watching, girl?

dag said:

MJJstudent said:

i have nightmares watching this video. it reminds me of a gang-rape fantasy clip. the way tatiana was cornered by walls of men, and being chased... the imagery of her wearing a short, tight dress does not help the situation either. i can't listen to the song now because of it. for me, it is NOT amusing.

What? What the hell are you watching, girl?

the same video as you. she was walking down the street, the guys were eyeing her, then she is cornered, initially by michael and then by a group of men. she is then chased and then she gives in, making light of what just happened to her. this is disturbing. i feel as if the men are going to gang-rape her.

as someone who has been stalked and had similar experiences as this, this video is disturbing. you may not have had the same experiences, so you may not see what i see when watching it. all i am saying is that i can't watch it because it conjures up certain imagery. because you may not share the experience, it does not mean that my experience is invalidated. i don't find this video to be sexy or appealing at all.

this is one of the few moments i call michael out.

i feel there is a point where, even though someone loves michael, they can't call him out on things, or else they will get grief. he is a man, not god. he's taken mis-steps, and i feel this is one of them. i also call him out for 'dirty diana'. that was also disturbing. the woman has no head, she's just a body, for crying out loud. in reading interviews with him i recognize where he is coming from, but still. i think tatiana was objectified, as well as the woman who plays 'diana'.

[Edited 2/14/11 13:22pm]

MJJstudent said:

dag said:

What? What the hell are you watching, girl?

the same video as you. she was walking down the street, the guys were eyeing her, then she is cornered, initially by michael and then by a group of men. she is then chased and then she gives in, making light of what just happened to her. this is disturbing. i feel as if the men are going to gang-rape her.

as someone who has been stalked and had similar experiences as this, this video is disturbing. you may not have had the same experiences, so you may not see what i see when watching it. all i am saying is that i can't watch it because it conjures up certain imagery. because you may not share the experience, it does not mean that my experience is invalidated. i don't find this video to be sexy or appealing at all.

this is one of the few moments i call michael out.

Hmm... then what was Michael's involvement? I mean at the end? He just hugged her. To play devil's advocate, they were harassing her. To be honest, Michael did save her from potential harm lol

Guess we see the video differently.

Timmy84 said:

Hmm... then what was Michael's involvement? I mean at the end? He just hugged her. To play devil's advocate, they were harassing her. To be honest, Michael did save her from potential harm lol

Guess we see the video differently.

we definitely do... i don't like how he approached her. i don't like the agressive mating ritual which happened in that video. he hugged her at the end when she surrendered. but he had to chase her down the whole time.

i am alone in a lot of my views on michael. i'm okay with that.

[Edited 2/14/11 13:24pm]

MJJstudent said:

Timmy84 said:

Hmm... then what was Michael's involvement? I mean at the end? He just hugged her. To play devil's advocate, they were harassing her. To be honest, Michael did save her from potential harm lol

Guess we see the video differently.

we definitely do... i don't like how he approached her. i don't like the agressive mating ritual which happened in that video. he hugged her at the end when she surrendered. but he had to chase her down the whole time.

i am alone in a lot of my views on michael. i'm okay with that.

[Edited 2/14/11 13:24pm]

I can respect it.

Timmy84 said:

MJJstudent said:

we definitely do... i don't like how he approached her. i don't like the agressive mating ritual which happened in that video. he hugged her at the end when she surrendered. but he had to chase her down the whole time.

i am alone in a lot of my views on michael. i'm okay with that.

[Edited 2/14/11 13:24pm]

I can respect it.

thanks, tim. and as you know, i totally respect your views.

MJJstudent said:

dag said:

What? What the hell are you watching, girl?

the same video as you. she was walking down the street, the guys were eyeing her, then she is cornered, initially by michael and then by a group of men. she is then chased and then she gives in, making light of what just happened to her. this is disturbing. i feel as if the men are going to gang-rape her.

as someone who has been stalked and had similar experiences as this, this video is disturbing. you may not have had the same experiences, so you may not see what i see when watching it. all i am saying is that i can't watch it because it conjures up certain imagery. because you may not share the experience, it does not mean that my experience is invalidated. i don't find this video to be sexy or appealing at all.

this is one of the few moments i call michael out.

i feel there is a point where, even though someone loves michael, they can't call him out on things, or else they will get grief. he is a man, not god. he's taken mis-steps, and i feel this is one of them. i also call him out for 'dirty diana'. that was also disturbing. the woman has no head, she's just a body, for crying out loud. in reading interviews with him i recognize where he is coming from, but still. i think tatiana was objectified, as well as the woman who plays 'diana'.

[Edited 2/14/11 13:22pm]

Man, I never looked at it that way. I know Michael would never approach a woman that aggressively. The reason he made that video was to kinda show the world he is a real, red-blooded man who likes girls (as rumours were going round he wasn't normal, slept in a hyperbaric chamber, all that nonsense). I remember Tatiana saying that was the first time the world saw Michael Jackson publicly chasing a girl.

I saw it more like a little game that was goin' on between Mike and Tatiana. He had his buddies, and him saying he a real guy and can get the girl, and Taty (with her group of friends) was doin' the gossiping as if to say "who does he think he is, runnin' after me??" This to me, is kinda the classic "playing hard to get" sequence. The fact Mike's "friends" were present were irrelevent to me because they didn't real express an interest in her (except to point out how pretty she is). They're more like a support committee givin' Mike some thunder. Honestly, I think Michael and Tatiana's embrace at the end showed Michael's ever present romantic side, kinda like he and she were saying "I love you" but without saying a word. The action said it all. Rape isn't about love or pleasure, it's a way of control really. And I didn't get that vibe.

my

MJJstudent said:

kibbles said:

i cannot wait until murray's defense team calls this 'family' to the stand.

i cannot wait either, but it may be for different reasons than you.

the thing is though, michael acknowledged his addiction (or dependence) on painkillers when he did that video at neverland in 1993. he also was flown to england in the late '90s to deal with said dependence/addiction. he even thanks elton john (who helped him at that time) on the 'blood on the dance floor' record. we cannot deny he had a dependence at some point in his life. we gotta keep it real here.

i do not know why he was seeing klein in between that time and 2009, and many of us may never know. we only see what is presented to us; but it's obvious that is only what we are 'supposed' to see. the fact is though; the drugs that were in his system were the ones murray gave to him. this is what i think should be discussed. whether or not he was an addict i think is beside the point, since it's already been established in the autopsy that the drugs he did claim to be addicted to (and benzos are indeed addictive) were not in his system. if michael's blood relatives cannot prove he was an addict and that they tried to help him, then they lost their case.

they shouldn't be putting their business out there in the street anyways. if they were trying to help him, i can see why he did not take it. as private as michael was, how they went about it was not helpful.

as i keep stating, i think everyone (AEG, sony and the family) are all guilty in one form or another. i do not take sides.

that's what i mean. i don't deny what mj himself admitted to in the early 90s, but if the family can't prove any subsequent addiction, they need to shut the f*ck up.

MJJstudent said:

dag said:

What? What the hell are you watching, girl?

the same video as you. she was walking down the street, the guys were eyeing her, then she is cornered, initially by michael and then by a group of men. she is then chased and then she gives in, making light of what just happened to her. this is disturbing. i feel as if the men are going to gang-rape her.

as someone who has been stalked and had similar experiences as this, this video is disturbing. you may not have had the same experiences, so you may not see what i see when watching it. all i am saying is that i can't watch it because it conjures up certain imagery. because you may not share the experience, it does not mean that my experience is invalidated. i don't find this video to be sexy or appealing at all.

this is one of the few moments i call michael out.

i feel there is a point where, even though someone loves michael, they can't call him out on things, or else they will get grief. he is a man, not god. he's taken mis-steps, and i feel this is one of them. i also call him out for 'dirty diana'. that was also disturbing. the woman has no head, she's just a body, for crying out loud. in reading interviews with him i recognize where he is coming from, but still. i think tatiana was objectified, as well as the woman who plays 'diana'.

[Edited 2/14/11 13:22pm]

OH, ok. I thought this reminded you of another video of a gang rape that you saw.

Anyways, this has just made me laugh. Mike and the president of Argentina.

mookie said:

Free2BMe said:

I agree. It just goes to show you how fucking CLUELESS his family is.

You are so right. Here's a pic of Rebbie with Stacy Brown and Diane Dimond.

Is that Reebie? Doesn't look like Reebie. If so... unfuckingbeliveable smdh.

SherryJackson said:

MJJstudent said:

the same video as you. she was walking down the street, the guys were eyeing her, then she is cornered, initially by michael and then by a group of men. she is then chased and then she gives in, making light of what just happened to her. this is disturbing. i feel as if the men are going to gang-rape her.

as someone who has been stalked and had similar experiences as this, this video is disturbing. you may not have had the same experiences, so you may not see what i see when watching it. all i am saying is that i can't watch it because it conjures up certain imagery. because you may not share the experience, it does not mean that my experience is invalidated. i don't find this video to be sexy or appealing at all.

this is one of the few moments i call michael out.

i feel there is a point where, even though someone loves michael, they can't call him out on things, or else they will get grief. he is a man, not god. he's taken mis-steps, and i feel this is one of them. i also call him out for 'dirty diana'. that was also disturbing. the woman has no head, she's just a body, for crying out loud. in reading interviews with him i recognize where he is coming from, but still. i think tatiana was objectified, as well as the woman who plays 'diana'.

[Edited 2/14/11 13:22pm]

Man, I never looked at it that way. I know Michael would never approach a woman that aggressively. The reason he made that video was to kinda show the world he is a real, red-blooded man who likes girls (as rumours were going round he wasn't normal, slept in a hyperbaric chamber, all that nonsense). I remember Tatiana saying that was the first time the world saw Michael Jackson publicly chasing a girl.

I saw it more like a little game that was goin' on between Mike and Tatiana. He had his buddies, and him saying he a real guy and can get the girl, and Taty (with her group of friends) was doin' the gossiping as if to say "who does he think he is, runnin' after me??" This to me, is kinda the classic "playing hard to get" sequence. The fact Mike's "friends" were present were irrelevent to me because they didn't real express an interest in her (except to point out how pretty she is). They're more like a support committee givin' Mike some thunder. Honestly, I think Michael and Tatiana's embrace at the end showed Michael's ever present romantic side, kinda like he and she were saying "I love you" but without saying a word. The action said it all. Rape isn't about love or pleasure, it's a way of control really. And I didn't get that vibe.

my

i respect your views very much. as i said to tim though, i'm just not into the aggressive mating ritual. i don't think it was necessary. i felt very uncomfortable watching the video. if he would never approach a woman aggressively (and who knows? he may have at some point in his life) i don't see the point of him doing it in a video, just to prove a point.

i mean, who cares if people think he's gay, asexual or whatever. he knows who he is, and that is what matters. again, who he is is between him and GOD, and it's not up to us to judge. it's ridiculous to me that men (and some women) have to act all aggressive that way. whatever happened to courting? being friends first?

michael used to look at women all the time. i don't see anything wrong with that, admiring the women. but to me, there is a fine line with doing that, and 'chasing' somebody, until they surrender. this becomes a power issue.

the men actually created a wall around tatiana and initially would not let her pass. and THEN michael chased her. i think the 'chase' is unappealing. to me, a 'real man' does not do that. if someone is going to do that in order to get me, then they don't want me. i've had people do that to me before, and it made me not want to even speak to them anymore.

i didn't find anything pleasurable about watching the video. it made me feel horrible. i don't like games like that. i don't see the point in it. that 'playing hard to get' thing is indecisive. if you like somebody, let them know. it's good to be clear on those things, in case someone's feelings cannot be reciprocated. it's not cute, these games. it would have been more appealing if he just saw her come home from work every day, then asked to hang out with her; maybe get her some flowers. be her friend first. the aggressive male thing; the 'chase' is not cool.

i mean like, why couldn't michael climb a tree with her? why couldn't they already be friends and then they're riding bicycles and he wants to tell her he likes her?

again, i usually have different ideas about stuff. i have no problems with michael (or anyone else) being sexual. i just think that stuff should be private, and if people ARE public, they should be nice to each other, not so aggressive like in that video (and many videos). and i wanted to put some clothes on tatiana. what can i say? i'm old-fashioned.

dag said:

MJJstudent said:

the same video as you. she was walking down the street, the guys were eyeing her, then she is cornered, initially by michael and then by a group of men. she is then chased and then she gives in, making light of what just happened to her. this is disturbing. i feel as if the men are going to gang-rape her.

as someone who has been stalked and had similar experiences as this, this video is disturbing. you may not have had the same experiences, so you may not see what i see when watching it. all i am saying is that i can't watch it because it conjures up certain imagery. because you may not share the experience, it does not mean that my experience is invalidated. i don't find this video to be sexy or appealing at all.

this is one of the few moments i call michael out.

i feel there is a point where, even though someone loves michael, they can't call him out on things, or else they will get grief. he is a man, not god. he's taken mis-steps, and i feel this is one of them. i also call him out for 'dirty diana'. that was also disturbing. the woman has no head, she's just a body, for crying out loud. in reading interviews with him i recognize where he is coming from, but still. i think tatiana was objectified, as well as the woman who plays 'diana'.

[Edited 2/14/11 13:22pm]

OH, ok. I thought this reminded you of another video of a gang rape that you saw.

Anyways, this has just made me laugh. Mike and the president of Argentina.

frankly, i can't really watch scenes that even REMOTELY make me think of sexual assault, or rape. i can't even watch sex scenes between consenting people. but when i saw that video, i felt horrible, i felt ill.

and yeah, michael's always fixing the tie of some diplomat or dictator or something. i wonder if he fixed ariel sharon's tie. that's the kid in him. or father... see, this is the michael i enjoy; not the 'aggressive male', like in that video.

MJJstudent said:

SherryJackson said:

Man, I never looked at it that way. I know Michael would never approach a woman that aggressively. The reason he made that video was to kinda show the world he is a real, red-blooded man who likes girls (as rumours were going round he wasn't normal, slept in a hyperbaric chamber, all that nonsense). I remember Tatiana saying that was the first time the world saw Michael Jackson publicly chasing a girl.

I saw it more like a little game that was goin' on between Mike and Tatiana. He had his buddies, and him saying he a real guy and can get the girl, and Taty (with her group of friends) was doin' the gossiping as if to say "who does he think he is, runnin' after me??" This to me, is kinda the classic "playing hard to get" sequence. The fact Mike's "friends" were present were irrelevent to me because they didn't real express an interest in her (except to point out how pretty she is). They're more like a support committee givin' Mike some thunder. Honestly, I think Michael and Tatiana's embrace at the end showed Michael's ever present romantic side, kinda like he and she were saying "I love you" but without saying a word. The action said it all. Rape isn't about love or pleasure, it's a way of control really. And I didn't get that vibe.

my

i respect your views very much. as i said to tim though, i'm just not into the aggressive mating ritual. i don't think it was necessary. i felt very uncomfortable watching the video. if he would never approach a woman aggressively (and who knows? he may have at some point in his life) i don't see the point of him doing it in a video, just to prove a point.

i mean, who cares if people think he's gay, asexual or whatever. he knows who he is, and that is what matters. again, who he is is between him and GOD, and it's not up to us to judge. it's ridiculous to me that men (and some women) have to act all aggressive that way. whatever happened to courting? being friends first?

michael used to look at women all the time. i don't see anything wrong with that, admiring the women. but to me, there is a fine line with doing that, and 'chasing' somebody, until they surrender. this becomes a power issue.

the men actually created a wall around tatiana and initially would not let her pass. and THEN michael chased her. i think the 'chase' is unappealing. to me, a 'real man' does not do that. if someone is going to do that in order to get me, then they don't want me. i've had people do that to me before, and it made me not want to even speak to them anymore.

i didn't find anything pleasurable about watching the video. it made me feel horrible. i don't like games like that. i don't see the point in it. that 'playing hard to get' thing is indecisive. if you like somebody, let them know. it's good to be clear on those things, in case someone's feelings cannot be reciprocated. it's not cute, these games. it would have been more appealing if he just saw her come home from work every day, then asked to hang out with her; maybe get her some flowers. be her friend first. the aggressive male thing; the 'chase' is not cool.

i mean like, why couldn't michael climb a tree with her? why couldn't they already be friends and then they're riding bicycles and he wants to tell her he likes her?

again, i usually have different ideas about stuff. i have no problems with michael (or anyone else) being sexual. i just think that stuff should be private, and if people ARE public, they should be nice to each other, not so aggressive like in that video (and many videos). and i wanted to put some clothes on tatiana. what can i say? i'm old-fashioned.

Well you've definitely given me something to think about. I respect your views too, as always.

Personally, I don't think Michael EVER approached a woman as aggressively as he did in that video. Man was so shy that he could never get enough nerve to ask a woman for date personally. Always one of his people set those up for him. He had no trouble talking to people or children (especially children). I think Michael enjoyed playing characters that were the opposite of himself. He said it himself, when he's performing, he can be anyone he wants. He's completely free onstage. I think that's what makes him a great performer/actor.

As far as Dirty Diana is concerned, I never really gave much thought that he was objectifying Diana. The whole song in itself is pretty much how he wants to be left alone from this woman. Diana in the song is a woman who objectifies herself, letting musicians use her sexually in the hopes she can be famous someday. Lots of groupies do that. I think the reason he never gave her a face was because he left that part up to the imagination of the viewer. But again, I respect your opinion on the matter and I think it's valid nonetheless.

I know Michael didn't need to show the world who or what he was. And he'd say that. But secretly, he wishes the world really knew that he was normal, just like everyone else. He loves, he lusts, he cries, he laughs, etc. And I do agree that sexuality is a private thing. Michael was the same way. He never disclosed names of women he's been affiliated with. He chose to keep that side private. And because of that, people misjudged him and started calling him gay or asexual (which I'm sure ain't true at all). Michael was very respectful of Tatiana, and that girl was madly in love with him. Still is. After she was fired for forcing him into a kiss during one performance, she never married. In fact recently, she released a book that she claims is the "secret romance" she and Michael shared. I have no problems with that ( I actually like the woman)..but that book reads like a romance novel. I just don't think a lot of what's said in it is true at all. But hey, can't blame the girl...

dag said:

Too cute.

[img:$uid]http://img191.i.../img:$uid]

Very nice whatever happened to Tatiana?

nursev said:

dag said:

Too cute.

[img:$uid]http://img191.i.../img:$uid]

Very nice whatever happened to Tatiana?

She never married or had children, but has had and still has a successful career as a model. She's on my facebook. Very loving woman...

I think everything surrounding the Bad Era was Michael trying to be a tough guy (duh the title name is bad ) It was a rebellious era imo he was shedding the little Michaelness from past releases but hey maybe looking too much into it he did change from Bad onwards.

SherryJackson said:

nursev said:

Very nice whatever happened to Tatiana?

She never married or had children, but has had and still has a successful career as a model. She's on my facebook. Very loving woman...

I would love to see a current pic of her I always liked her-she looked nice with Michael

nursev said:

SherryJackson said:

She never married or had children, but has had and still has a successful career as a model. She's on my facebook. Very loving woman...

I would love to see a current pic of her I always liked her-she looked nice with Michael

Tatiana Yvonne as of January 2010.

SherryJackson said:

nursev said:

I would love to see a current pic of her I always liked her-she looked nice with Michael

Tatiana Yvonne as of January 2010.

Aww thanks Sherry She is still beautiful.

babybugz said:

I think everything surrounding the Bad Era was Michael trying to be a tough guy (duh the title name is bad ) It was a rebellious era imo he was shedding the little Michaelness from past releases but hey maybe looking too much into it he did change from Bad onwards.

Yeah. For me it worked. It shed his "wholesome" image. The year he released this album, Eddie Murphy was going on about how if Michael went to him at a club and confronted him, I guess this was the response. Not surprised they became friends shortly after that.

The tougher street image has been credited to Frank Dileo who wanted Michael to have a rougher, harder image. Obviously Michael embraced it, but let's not forget Michael wanted this to be the front cover of BAD.

Personally I always loved this shot - but it doesn't exude the tough image that BAD would come to represent.

Swa said:

The tougher street image has been credited to Frank Dileo who wanted Michael to have a rougher, harder image. Obviously Michael embraced it, but let's not forget Michael wanted this to be the front cover of BAD.

Personally I always loved this shot - but it doesn't exude the tough image that BAD would come to represent.

The original title of the album was actually Lace but Michael changed it obviously.

^^ Because it's lace, it's lace - i got on me.

Ubisoft’s Dance Games Booming, Expect More Michael Jackson

As you might have guessed after seeing the NPD chart for November andDecember, Ubisoft’s dance games are booming. In the third quarter of their ongoing fiscal year alone, Ubisoft’s dance titles (Just Dance, Just Dance 2, Just Dance Kids,Michael Jackson: The Experience and Dance on Broadway) sold over 10.5 million units.

While Just Dance 2 is a Wii-exclusive game, Michael Jackson: The Experience is currently available on Wii, DS and PSP, with Kinect and PlayStation Move versions slated to release in April. Taking all these versions into account, Ubisoft hope to cross sales of 4 million units with Michael Jackson.

Ubisoft CEO, Yves Guillemot, also confirmed during an investor Q&A earlier today, that we’d be seeing more versions of Michael Jackson: The Experience “over the next couple of years” and that we can expect to see the Just Dance franchise expand to other platforms.

I've always said that Destiny, OTW and Triumphs were continuations of one another...but, if you can make your own track list using ONLY THESE 3 ALBUMS, what would your list be?

NOTE: You can ONLY use 15 tracks (13 album tracks plus 2 bonus tracks)