armpit said:

MJJstudent said:

and 'don't walk away' is AMAZING! it's not sappy at all.

I don't think so, either.

I've always felt that way about Speechless and never really understood that adoration for that song. How most fans felt about Speechless, is how I felt about Heaven Can Wait and Butterflies.

i love ALL those songs, armpit. 'speechless' has more of a spiritual element to it, whereas the other two focus more on romantic love/physical intimacy.

MJJstudent said:

NMuzakNSoul said:

me too and yeah i agree. I think Casey(militant) got u on here right? This is a great place to be at it's more relaxed most of the time (altho there are moments) but yeah i prefer this over the vbe of mike forums.

So on the topic of Butterflies...what's everyone's favorite moment in this song? Mine gotta be the "just make my dreams come true oh baby u give me butterflies" part.

he certainly did bring me on here... some nice people on this site. i told him that the prince community was much nicer to me than the michael community- much more open-minded and friendlier in my experience of being with them, and he said to go on this site, so i did. despite michael's message of love and acceptance (and the fan base saying they reiterate it) those people are too full of hate/vitriol for my taste.

even though i am more partial to michael (he is my favourite artist in all of the world, him and STEVIE WONDER (who comes first)), i really enjoy being around prince people.

about butterflies, wow... it's really hard for me to decide. i am absolutely in love with the whole song. you hear the anger/frustration, heartbreak, hopefulness and resignation, all at once. it sounds like love, only how michael could do it. everything about it- the breaths he takes, the accent on certain words... it just all comes together. love was a very painful experience for him, in terms of finding it. this is what i hear when i listen to him.

wow. i really don't know. all i know is that he consistently brings me to this place i cannot explain, at least on a forum such as this. much of that place is very painful actually. at the same time it's theraputic. this is how i feel about 'butterflies', amongst his other songs.

We got that in common about Stevie and Mike for sure. They're tied for my number 1 spot. lol

You have a way with words. I listen to Michael's music today to find happiness, because his spirit is so much connected to his work that it's hard for me to be sad unless it's a really emotional song. But songs like "workin day and night" bring me a lot of Joy to this day.

Of course when i said this my playlist plays "gone too soon"......

NMuzakNSoul said:

MJJstudent said:

he certainly did bring me on here... some nice people on this site. i told him that the prince community was much nicer to me than the michael community- much more open-minded and friendlier in my experience of being with them, and he said to go on this site, so i did. despite michael's message of love and acceptance (and the fan base saying they reiterate it) those people are too full of hate/vitriol for my taste.

even though i am more partial to michael (he is my favourite artist in all of the world, him and STEVIE WONDER (who comes first)), i really enjoy being around prince people.

about butterflies, wow... it's really hard for me to decide. i am absolutely in love with the whole song. you hear the anger/frustration, heartbreak, hopefulness and resignation, all at once. it sounds like love, only how michael could do it. everything about it- the breaths he takes, the accent on certain words... it just all comes together. love was a very painful experience for him, in terms of finding it. this is what i hear when i listen to him.

wow. i really don't know. all i know is that he consistently brings me to this place i cannot explain, at least on a forum such as this. much of that place is very painful actually. at the same time it's theraputic. this is how i feel about 'butterflies', amongst his other songs.

We got that in common about Stevie and Mike for sure. They're tied for my number 1 spot. lol

You have a way with words. I listen to Michael's music today to find happiness, because his spirit is so much connected to his work that it's hard for me to be sad unless it's a really emotional song. But songs like "workin day and night" bring me a lot of Joy to this day.

WOW! you are the first person i think i've ever met, who shares my love of STEVIE and michael like that!!! it's WONDERFUL to meet you!

the thing is, i was writing a book for two years about michael, and i realized the both of us shared similar childhoods, amongst other life experiences. i noticed a lot of sadness in his dimeanor and affectations. i began to study him even closer, to the point where if i was not working or doing radio, this man was my life. i continuously observed his eyes, hands, posture, speech patterns, vocal style...

and i noticed how while he seemed to make everyone else happy, i realized because i identified with him so much i felt a lot of pain listening to him.

i ceased writing the book upon his transcendence; but now, listening to his music gives me a different element of sadness. ultimately his music never made me all that joyous. the major irony, i know. STEVIE on the other hand, even when he's speaking about sad issues, makes me feel extremely hopeful. i think both of them are sort of like a yin and yang of artistry. they both speak of the same messages, but they give me different feelings when listening to them.

in so many ways, michael is still part of a huge chunk of my life. i consider him my life's teacher, so... this developed when i was writing the book. he's taught me so much about myself, i wanted to do something to honor him in life. now that he's not here i aim to do things to still honor him.

MJJstudent said:

NMuzakNSoul said:

We got that in common about Stevie and Mike for sure. They're tied for my number 1 spot. lol

You have a way with words. I listen to Michael's music today to find happiness, because his spirit is so much connected to his work that it's hard for me to be sad unless it's a really emotional song. But songs like "workin day and night" bring me a lot of Joy to this day.

WOW! you are the first person i think i've ever met, who shares my love of STEVIE and michael like that!!! it's WONDERFUL to meet you!

the thing is, i was writing a book for two years about michael, and i realized the both of us shared similar childhoods, amongst other life experiences. i noticed a lot of sadness in his dimeanor and affectations. i began to study him even closer, to the point where if i was not working or doing radio, this man was my life. i continuously observed his eyes, hands, posture, speech patterns, vocal style...

and i noticed how while he seemed to make everyone else happy, i realized because i identified with him so much i felt a lot of pain listening to him.

i ceased writing the book upon his transcendence; but now, listening to his music gives me a different element of sadness. ultimately his music never made me all that joyous. the major irony, i know. STEVIE on the other hand, even when he's speaking about sad issues, makes me feel extremely hopeful. i think both of them are sort of like a yin and yang of artistry. they both speak of the same messages, but they give me different feelings when listening to them.

in so many ways, michael is still part of a huge chunk of my life. i consider him my life's teacher, so... this developed when i was writing the book. he's taught me so much about myself, i wanted to do something to honor him in life. now that he's not here i aim to do things to still honor him.

Ahhh really cool it's Stevie Wonderful to meet you too.

Yeah I've studied a lot of Michael...his vocals his steps his music his interviews...Knowledge is power really I try to absorb as much as I can. For my own music as well. I do that with many great artists. You never felt that overwhelming joy from his music because you felt it was to bring others happiness instead of himself really? I think I can feel where you're coming from on that. And yeah Mike really wanted to be loved and feel loved. But for me there is also the attachment of childhood. I was 2 years old when I got up and danced to Michael's music. So all the uptempo happy songs also bring me to a place of joy where I was as a child when life was carefree.

I think you should continue that book, honestly. You have a knack for writing there lady. Even if it's not published it will help you to find a different emotion related to the acceptance maybe.

That's really interesting though on Mike and Stevie. I have a hopeful connection too with Stevie cause he has a disability like me, yet wasn't afraid to be himself. I learned a whole lot from that too and get a feeling on continuing on no matter what from him. Thanks for the insight

You both sound like my soulmates, I got so depressed too when listening to him though it was coupled with such joy, and we had similar things happen to us too...but it got to a point where I got too depressed and had to back away just a little though I love him all the same and have the huge collection and everything

Another poster on the org that LOVES michael and stevie is WildStyle. I also like Stevie and have a few of his CD's, but I think I'm more of a casual fan though I think he's extremely creative and talented.

I like the song a lot, but what I really want is an ideal version with the horns from the MJ version (as the way they come in on the chorus really 'makes' the track for me), but with Floetry's vocals, because of warm richness they have to them. I love MJ as a singer on ballads like Human Nature or The Lady in My Life, but on this track his voice could cut through granite.

MJJstudent said:

angel345 said:

Black America has always had his back until death

depends on who you talk to... i could point to some folks who laughed at me due to my support of him. and a lot of folks felt he fell off when 'bad' came out, because he 'wasn't black' to them. they took one look at the cover, and rolled their eyes. they said he was betraying his race. i remember when this happened. when he did 'dangerous' some people began to support him again, but not totally. but yeah, when he was accused of all that stuff, a lot of people in the black communities supported him, due to the treatment black people consistently get in the (in)justice system.

i love that dave chapelle skit, when he was like, "he didn't do anything, HE MADE THRILLER!"

Well, to cut the generalization, many Black Americans and the Black media has always supported MJ, correct, and some have felt he has betrayed his race. There's no denying it. I would say that most of his support came from blacks here and diverse cultures overboard. His record sales is a testament to that, especially in the last 15 years. Speaking for myself, I had his back, even when there were times that I felt that he didn't want to identify with the black community, especially in his "Thriller" days, but my family bought the album. Therefore, I would say that I had his back until his death.

[Edited 2/9/11 6:30am]

Timmy84 said:

MJJstudent said:

depends on who you talk to... i could point to some folks who laughed at me due to my support of him. and a lot of folks felt he fell off when 'bad' came out, because he 'wasn't black' to them. they took one look at the cover, and rolled their eyes. they said he was betraying his race. i remember when this happened. when he did 'dangerous' some people began to support him again, but not totally. but yeah, when he was accused of all that stuff, a lot of people in the black communities supported him, due to the treatment black people consistently get in the (in)justice system.

i love that dave chapelle skit, when he was like, "he didn't do anything, HE MADE THRILLER!"

I was about three when this started occurring and I heard that a lot too. It got real bad during the initial Dangerous era. It changed somewhat after 1992 and especially after the allegations, black folks were like "see, always trying to put a successful black man down!" Then he was at the NAACP Image Awards accepting an award and made a great speech. That had black folks standing up like they were at a Black Panther rally. Touching stuff. But I think all communities were kinda polarized against him until his death but good music definitely will have people on your good graces. The response "Butterflies" got in the R&B community was beautiful. Had it not been for that price tag on Fat Joe's song, "Butterflies" would've been number-one instead of number-two. I felt it personally got robbed.

[Edited 2/7/11 11:45am]

It it so unfortunate that the younger generation came up at a time when the accusations against him were publicized. Therefore, they were more focused on his personal life than his music. I grew up watching him and his family transform musically, and the media singing his praises, before all the dirt. MJ will always have a loyal black fan base, no matter what, and I saw the NAACP Image Awards. Love it

MJJstudent said:

armpit said:

I don't think so, either.

I've always felt that way about Speechless and never really understood that adoration for that song. How most fans felt about Speechless, is how I felt about Heaven Can Wait and Butterflies.

i love ALL those songs, armpit. 'speechless' has more of a spiritual element to it, whereas the other two focus more on romantic love/physical intimacy.

I think that's kind of a matter of personal taste, too; because I hear spiritual elements along with romantic love and sexuality, in both Heaven Can Wait and Butterflies - only without the Disney-level saccharine in Speechless.

I remember thinking before "Invincible" dropped, "I wonder if he'll have any soulful ballads or slow jams on it." I thought this because of the lack thereof from "Dangerous." He delivered some good ballads on Invincible. Some of the best ballads in years if you ask me.

This song really reminds you of what initially made Mike a big deal. His voice.

Musicslave said:

I remember thinking before "Invincible" dropped, "I wonder if he'll have any soulful ballads or slow jams on it." I thought this because of the lack thereof from "Dangerous." He delivered some good ballads on Invincible. Some of the best ballads in years if you ask me.

This song really reminds you of what initially made Mike a big deal. His voice.

I felt the same. I honestly thnk that a lot of the ballads on Invincible are among the best things he's ever done. I've never understood why HIStory is so universally adored in the MJ fan community, but Invincible is panned.

armpit said:

Musicslave said:

I remember thinking before "Invincible" dropped, "I wonder if he'll have any soulful ballads or slow jams on it." I thought this because of the lack thereof from "Dangerous." He delivered some good ballads on Invincible. Some of the best ballads in years if you ask me.

This song really reminds you of what initially made Mike a big deal. His voice.

I felt the same. I honestly thnk that a lot of the ballads on Invincible are among the best things he's ever done. I've never understood why HIStory is so universally adored in the MJ fan community, but Invincible is panned.

In MY opinion, a lot of MJ fans panned Invincible because it was too SOULFUL. A lot of his fans don't WANT Michael to be soulful. They want that "pop" sound. I also think that songs like "Butterflies", "Break of Dawn", "Heaven Can Wait", YRMW" are what saved Invincible. Those songs re-connected Michael to his R&B fans and the Black community. R&B radio played those songs to death and DJ's seemed to have gained a new respect for Michael with the album, particulary the aforementioned songs. I also believe that a lot of fans couldn't handle Michael's obvious sexual content in those songs. A lot of fans, media and critics couldn't handle the fact that the the songs mentioned were romantic, sexual songs. Some of his fans and others wanted Michael to be "asexual"(what a bunch of shit) and couldn't/wouldn't accept his more sexual,romantic songs/music. I thought Invincible had some of Michael's strongest, more mature and sexual songs EVER. I love the album and still listen to it more than any other MJ album.

angel345 said:

Timmy84 said:

I was about three when this started occurring and I heard that a lot too. It got real bad during the initial Dangerous era. It changed somewhat after 1992 and especially after the allegations, black folks were like "see, always trying to put a successful black man down!" Then he was at the NAACP Image Awards accepting an award and made a great speech. That had black folks standing up like they were at a Black Panther rally. Touching stuff. But I think all communities were kinda polarized against him until his death but good music definitely will have people on your good graces. The response "Butterflies" got in the R&B community was beautiful. Had it not been for that price tag on Fat Joe's song, "Butterflies" would've been number-one instead of number-two. I felt it personally got robbed.

[Edited 2/7/11 11:45am]

It it so unfortunate that the younger generation came up at a time when the accusations against him were publicized. Therefore, they were more focused on his personal life than his music. I grew up watching him and his family transform musically, and the media singing his praises, before all the dirt. MJ will always have a loyal black fan base, no matter what, and I saw the NAACP Image Awards. Love it

You would really be surprised that a LOT of the younger generation do NOT focus on Michael's personal life; but focus more on his MUSIC. Believe it or not, before Michael's death, kids were really getting into his music more than ever. I know this for a FACT.

Free2BMe said:

armpit said:

I felt the same. I honestly thnk that a lot of the ballads on Invincible are among the best things he's ever done. I've never understood why HIStory is so universally adored in the MJ fan community, but Invincible is panned.

In MY opinion, a lot of MJ fans panned Invincible because it was too SOULFUL. A lot of his fans don't WANT Michael to be soulful. They want that "pop" sound. I also think that songs like "Butterflies", "Break of Dawn", "Heaven Can Wait", YRMW" are what saved Invincible. Those songs re-connected Michael to his R&B fans and the Black community. R&B radio played those songs to death and DJ's seemed to have gained a new respect for Michael with the album, particulary the aforementioned songs. I also believe that a lot of fans couldn't handle Michael's obvious sexual content in those songs. A lot of fans, media and critics couldn't handle the fact that the the songs mentioned were romantic, sexual songs. Some of his fans and others wanted Michael to be "asexual"(what a bunch of shit) and couldn't/wouldn't accept his more sexual,romantic songs/music. I thought Invincible had some of Michael's strongest, more mature and sexual songs EVER. I love the album and still listen to it more than any other MJ album.

I think a big portion of the MJ fan community is international, where R&B and soulful songs aren't as popular as pop songs. I always wished that he did another Off the Wall-type album. History seemed like a rehash of Dangerous (well, technically it was.. since most of the songs/demos were of that period). I think fans also liked History because it was Michael's way of defending himself and showing a bit of attitude and edge on his part.

Regarding Invincible - I agree, I really enjoyed the maturity, not only in his voice, but in the lyrical content of the ballads. Break of Dawn still makes me melt! I still listen to a lot of songs on Invincible because I really enjoyed how he played the sensual side in some of the ballads.

Some of his earlier songs also elluded to sex.. you just gotta read between the lines

MyLuv229 said:

Free2BMe said:

In MY opinion, a lot of MJ fans panned Invincible because it was too SOULFUL. A lot of his fans don't WANT Michael to be soulful. They want that "pop" sound. I also think that songs like "Butterflies", "Break of Dawn", "Heaven Can Wait", YRMW" are what saved Invincible. Those songs re-connected Michael to his R&B fans and the Black community. R&B radio played those songs to death and DJ's seemed to have gained a new respect for Michael with the album, particulary the aforementioned songs. I also believe that a lot of fans couldn't handle Michael's obvious sexual content in those songs. A lot of fans, media and critics couldn't handle the fact that the the songs mentioned were romantic, sexual songs. Some of his fans and others wanted Michael to be "asexual"(what a bunch of shit) and couldn't/wouldn't accept his more sexual,romantic songs/music. I thought Invincible had some of Michael's strongest, more mature and sexual songs EVER. I love the album and still listen to it more than any other MJ album.

I think a big portion of the MJ fan community is international, where R&B and soulful songs aren't as popular as pop songs. I always wished that he did another Off the Wall-type album. History seemed like a rehash of Dangerous (well, technically it was.. since most of the songs/demos were of that period). I think fans also liked History because it was Michael's way of defending himself and showing a bit of attitude and edge on his part.

Regarding Invincible - I agree, I really enjoyed the maturity, not only in his voice, but in the lyrical content of the ballads. Break of Dawn still makes me melt! I still listen to a lot of songs on Invincible because I really enjoyed how he played the sensual side in some of the ballads.

Some of his earlier songs also elluded to sex.. you just gotta read between the lines

There was sexuality in a lot of MJ songs - just not explicit.

As for Invincible - it suffered from being too overblown and too long. If it had been stripped back to a 10 track album instead of 16 then it would have been a different story I think. Butterflies remains a highlight of the album.

I agree. I never really understood why he needed so many tracks. I think he was trying to give fans a mix of different flavors with pop, R&B, and some Disney-esque stuff. It weighed down the album because it didn't carry a solid feel to it. I can't help wondering that Michael probably did that because he had some visual projects in mind to go along with the album.... why else would he have a song like 2000 Watts in it?

Free2BMe said:

armpit said:

I felt the same. I honestly thnk that a lot of the ballads on Invincible are among the best things he's ever done. I've never understood why HIStory is so universally adored in the MJ fan community, but Invincible is panned.

In MY opinion, a lot of MJ fans panned Invincible because it was too SOULFUL. A lot of his fans don't WANT Michael to be soulful. They want that "pop" sound. I also think that songs like "Butterflies", "Break of Dawn", "Heaven Can Wait", YRMW" are what saved Invincible. Those songs re-connected Michael to his R&B fans and the Black community. R&B radio played those songs to death and DJ's seemed to have gained a new respect for Michael with the album, particulary the aforementioned songs. I also believe that a lot of fans couldn't handle Michael's obvious sexual content in those songs. A lot of fans, media and critics couldn't handle the fact that the the songs mentioned were romantic, sexual songs. Some of his fans and others wanted Michael to be "asexual"(what a bunch of shit) and couldn't/wouldn't accept his more sexual,romantic songs/music. I thought Invincible had some of Michael's strongest, more mature and sexual songs EVER. I love the album and still listen to it more than any other MJ album.

That's probably it - if you frequent the fan forums, most of the MJ fan community is really into super-poppy music or middle-of-the-road type stuff (a lot of them are Celine Dion fans), so in that sense, I can see why it was panned. He put out an R&B heavy album to a fanbase that for the most part, doesn't give two shits about R&B.

But I love that disc. It's one of my favorites, too. I hate the dance tracks, but the ballads make up for those.

As an aside - the reception "Butterflies" got, really surprised me. I was shocked as hell when my nephew (who was a teenager at the time) came over one day and told me that all the kids he knew loved "Butterflies" and that a lot of them were going through the halls at his school, singing it. That song really should've had a proper release, complete with a video....

NMuzakNSoul said:

MJJstudent said:

WOW! you are the first person i think i've ever met, who shares my love of STEVIE and michael like that!!! it's WONDERFUL to meet you!

the thing is, i was writing a book for two years about michael, and i realized the both of us shared similar childhoods, amongst other life experiences. i noticed a lot of sadness in his dimeanor and affectations. i began to study him even closer, to the point where if i was not working or doing radio, this man was my life. i continuously observed his eyes, hands, posture, speech patterns, vocal style...

and i noticed how while he seemed to make everyone else happy, i realized because i identified with him so much i felt a lot of pain listening to him.

i ceased writing the book upon his transcendence; but now, listening to his music gives me a different element of sadness. ultimately his music never made me all that joyous. the major irony, i know. STEVIE on the other hand, even when he's speaking about sad issues, makes me feel extremely hopeful. i think both of them are sort of like a yin and yang of artistry. they both speak of the same messages, but they give me different feelings when listening to them.

in so many ways, michael is still part of a huge chunk of my life. i consider him my life's teacher, so... this developed when i was writing the book. he's taught me so much about myself, i wanted to do something to honor him in life. now that he's not here i aim to do things to still honor him.

Ahhh really cool it's Stevie Wonderful to meet you too.

Yeah I've studied a lot of Michael...his vocals his steps his music his interviews...Knowledge is power really I try to absorb as much as I can. For my own music as well. I do that with many great artists. You never felt that overwhelming joy from his music because you felt it was to bring others happiness instead of himself really? I think I can feel where you're coming from on that. And yeah Mike really wanted to be loved and feel loved. But for me there is also the attachment of childhood. I was 2 years old when I got up and danced to Michael's music. So all the uptempo happy songs also bring me to a place of joy where I was as a child when life was carefree.

I think you should continue that book, honestly. You have a knack for writing there lady. Even if it's not published it will help you to find a different emotion related to the acceptance maybe.

That's really interesting though on Mike and Stevie. I have a hopeful connection too with Stevie cause he has a disability like me, yet wasn't afraid to be himself. I learned a whole lot from that too and get a feeling on continuing on no matter what from him. Thanks for the insight

yes, to the first highlighted statement. he did all he could to make others happy, but could never find true happiness himself. i identify with that. when i was writing the book it made me quite upset at him, because i saw that in myself. and i knew that i had to take care of myself.

i grew up in a really abusive household like michael did, so this is the place i come from when i hear him. i never felt loved at all. and in listening to him i feel that yearning.

i'll send you my two blog pages in your notes section... i haven't written in a few months (i've been feeling a bit crazy) but you'll get a sense of what i do these days. i also have a facebook page where i write a lot of notes pertaining to michael.

i am glad that, despite whatever disability you have, you can face the day and share with the world your sense of creativity. that is a wonderful thing.

alphastreet said:

You both sound like my soulmates, I got so depressed too when listening to him though it was coupled with such joy, and we had similar things happen to us too...but it got to a point where I got too depressed and had to back away just a little though I love him all the same and have the huge collection and everything

Another poster on the org that LOVES michael and stevie is WildStyle. I also like Stevie and have a few of his CD's, but I think I'm more of a casual fan though I think he's extremely creative and talented.

we should all form a michael and STEVIE gang here, hee hee...

angel345 said:

MJJstudent said:

depends on who you talk to... i could point to some folks who laughed at me due to my support of him. and a lot of folks felt he fell off when 'bad' came out, because he 'wasn't black' to them. they took one look at the cover, and rolled their eyes. they said he was betraying his race. i remember when this happened. when he did 'dangerous' some people began to support him again, but not totally. but yeah, when he was accused of all that stuff, a lot of people in the black communities supported him, due to the treatment black people consistently get in the (in)justice system.

i love that dave chapelle skit, when he was like, "he didn't do anything, HE MADE THRILLER!"

Well, to cut the generalization, many Black Americans and the Black media has always supported MJ, correct, and some have felt he has betrayed his race. There's no denying it. I would say that most of his support came from blacks here and diverse cultures overboard. His record sales is a testament to that, especially in the last 15 years. Speaking for myself, I had his back, even when there were times that I felt that he didn't want to identify with the black community, especially in his "Thriller" days, but my family bought the album. Therefore, I would say that I had his back until his death.

[Edited 2/9/11 6:30am]

oh for sure, the black communities overseas definitely had his back. aside from the stuff released by johnson publications in the states, much of black america (not in the industry) resented him due to how he physically changed; and because he began to venture into rock, classical and other forms of music).

armpit said:

MJJstudent said:

i love ALL those songs, armpit. 'speechless' has more of a spiritual element to it, whereas the other two focus more on romantic love/physical intimacy.

I think that's kind of a matter of personal taste, too; because I hear spiritual elements along with romantic love and sexuality, in both Heaven Can Wait and Butterflies - only without the Disney-level saccharine in Speechless.

hee hee... i agree with you, in terms of hearing the spiritual elements in those songs. i still love speechless though.

Free2BMe said:

armpit said:

I felt the same. I honestly thnk that a lot of the ballads on Invincible are among the best things he's ever done. I've never understood why HIStory is so universally adored in the MJ fan community, but Invincible is panned.

In MY opinion, a lot of MJ fans panned Invincible because it was too SOULFUL. A lot of his fans don't WANT Michael to be soulful. They want that "pop" sound. I also think that songs like "Butterflies", "Break of Dawn", "Heaven Can Wait", YRMW" are what saved Invincible. Those songs re-connected Michael to his R&B fans and the Black community. R&B radio played those songs to death and DJ's seemed to have gained a new respect for Michael with the album, particulary the aforementioned songs. I also believe that a lot of fans couldn't handle Michael's obvious sexual content in those songs. A lot of fans, media and critics couldn't handle the fact that the the songs mentioned were romantic, sexual songs. Some of his fans and others wanted Michael to be "asexual"(what a bunch of shit) and couldn't/wouldn't accept his more sexual,romantic songs/music. I thought Invincible had some of Michael's strongest, more mature and sexual songs EVER. I love the album and still listen to it more than any other MJ album.

but wait a minute!!! michael sang 'we don't have to be 21 to fall in love'/'michael is a lover' as a child... then he did songs like 'touch' (which was PRETTY explicit if you ask me) with his brothers. then he did 'lady in my life', 'in the closet', 'baby be mine', etc. the only album that didn't have anything really sexual on it was HIStory.

i'm not sure how the fans would think he was asexual. never mind the fact that michael openly looked at women. he was an ass man. and the 'remember the time' video had some sexually suggestive scenes/innuendoes there. and you look at some of michael's performances. i'm confused as to how people could perceive michael as being asexual.

anyways, invincible is one of my four favourite albums of his. it is indeed, a great sign of maturity for him. i think fatherhood did a lot to contribute to that. i happen to be fonder of the ballads like 'heal the world', 'childhood' 'smile' and the like; but you CANNOT deny the greatness of those songs on invincible.

MyLuv229 said:

Some of his earlier songs also elluded to sex.. you just gotta read between the lines

when i first heard this song i freaked out... i mean, the original version the supremes did is G-RATED in comparison.

MyLuv229 said:

I agree. I never really understood why he needed so many tracks. I think he was trying to give fans a mix of different flavors with pop, R&B, and some Disney-esque stuff. It weighed down the album because it didn't carry a solid feel to it. I can't help wondering that Michael probably did that because he had some visual projects in mind to go along with the album.... why else would he have a song like 2000 Watts in it?

Unbreakable

Heartbreaker

Invincible

Break of Dawn

You Rock My World (no intro)

Heaven Can Wait

Butterflies

Privacy

Whatever Happens

Threatened

that's a tight album with with 10 solid tracks; and with a harder sound, then we'd be talking about a new classic of pop music

back in 2001 I was disappointed by the bland production and the EXCESSIVE amount of filler...

JoeTyler said:

MyLuv229 said:

I agree. I never really understood why he needed so many tracks. I think he was trying to give fans a mix of different flavors with pop, R&B, and some Disney-esque stuff. It weighed down the album because it didn't carry a solid feel to it. I can't help wondering that Michael probably did that because he had some visual projects in mind to go along with the album.... why else would he have a song like 2000 Watts in it?

Unbreakable

Heartbreaker

Invincible

Break of Dawn

You Rock My World (no intro)

Heaven Can Wait

Butterflies

Privacy

Whatever Happens

Threatened

that's a tight album with with 10 solid tracks; and with a harder sound, then we'd be talking about a new classic of pop music

back in 2001 I was disappointed by the bland production and the EXCESSIVE amount of filler...

I get bored by the end of the first 3 tracks. They're too samey or something. Pull one of them and throw in "Don't walk away" later in the piece I reckon!

Now that I think about it....get rid of "Heartbreaker". The production is irritating. It could be a decent song with diff production.

MJJstudent said:

NMuzakNSoul said:

Ahhh really cool it's Stevie Wonderful to meet you too.

Yeah I've studied a lot of Michael...his vocals his steps his music his interviews...Knowledge is power really I try to absorb as much as I can. For my own music as well. I do that with many great artists. You never felt that overwhelming joy from his music because you felt it was to bring others happiness instead of himself really? I think I can feel where you're coming from on that. And yeah Mike really wanted to be loved and feel loved. But for me there is also the attachment of childhood. I was 2 years old when I got up and danced to Michael's music. So all the uptempo happy songs also bring me to a place of joy where I was as a child when life was carefree.

I think you should continue that book, honestly. You have a knack for writing there lady. Even if it's not published it will help you to find a different emotion related to the acceptance maybe.

That's really interesting though on Mike and Stevie. I have a hopeful connection too with Stevie cause he has a disability like me, yet wasn't afraid to be himself. I learned a whole lot from that too and get a feeling on continuing on no matter what from him. Thanks for the insight

yes, to the first highlighted statement. he did all he could to make others happy, but could never find true happiness himself. i identify with that. when i was writing the book it made me quite upset at him, because i saw that in myself. and i knew that i had to take care of myself.

i grew up in a really abusive household like michael did, so this is the place i come from when i hear him. i never felt loved at all. and in listening to him i feel that yearning.

i'll send you my two blog pages in your notes section... i haven't written in a few months (i've been feeling a bit crazy) but you'll get a sense of what i do these days. i also have a facebook page where i write a lot of notes pertaining to michael.

i am glad that, despite whatever disability you have, you can face the day and share with the world your sense of creativity. that is a wonderful thing.

Thank you and I appreciate the kind words. I'm sorry you went through all of that I can't even imagine...but I do understand why you feel that similarity with Michael.

I'm looking forward to your notes and I encourage you to keep on going and be creative.

Thank you, despite my disability I try to stay positive and happy.

On the topic of Invincible this is my fave tracklist

1. Unbreakable

2. You Rock My World

3. Heaven Can Wait

4. Break Of Dawn

5. Butterflies

6. 2000 Watts

7. Whatever Happens

8. Don't Walk Away

9. Privacy

10. Threatened

a pretty damn strong disc ths way

MJJstudent said:

NMuzakNSoul said:

Ahhh really cool it's Stevie Wonderful to meet you too.

Yeah I've studied a lot of Michael...his vocals his steps his music his interviews...Knowledge is power really I try to absorb as much as I can. For my own music as well. I do that with many great artists. You never felt that overwhelming joy from his music because you felt it was to bring others happiness instead of himself really? I think I can feel where you're coming from on that. And yeah Mike really wanted to be loved and feel loved. But for me there is also the attachment of childhood. I was 2 years old when I got up and danced to Michael's music. So all the uptempo happy songs also bring me to a place of joy where I was as a child when life was carefree.

I think you should continue that book, honestly. You have a knack for writing there lady. Even if it's not published it will help you to find a different emotion related to the acceptance maybe.

That's really interesting though on Mike and Stevie. I have a hopeful connection too with Stevie cause he has a disability like me, yet wasn't afraid to be himself. I learned a whole lot from that too and get a feeling on continuing on no matter what from him. Thanks for the insight

yes, to the first highlighted statement. he did all he could to make others happy, but could never find true happiness himself. i identify with that. when i was writing the book it made me quite upset at him, because i saw that in myself. and i knew that i had to take care of myself.

i grew up in a really abusive household like michael did, so this is the place i come from when i hear him. i never felt loved at all. and in listening to him i feel that yearning.

i'll send you my two blog pages in your notes section... i haven't written in a few months (i've been feeling a bit crazy) but you'll get a sense of what i do these days. i also have a facebook page where i write a lot of notes pertaining to michael.

i am glad that, despite whatever disability you have, you can face the day and share with the world your sense of creativity. that is a wonderful thing.

I almost feel like calling you a plaigarist :*( After becoming too too attached to him and after being burnt out once the verdicts were announced from all the support I was doing publicly and privately, I felt like I was getting angry and feeling let down by him, but I knew then and now I was being very selfish and I was miserable with my own life, and it's continuing still though I'm learning how to manage it, and it's different from my childhood. I was seeing all my other favourites in concert and felt so sad and bitter that I may never see him and would cry at what they did to him if anyone called him those names related to the allegations, cause he didn't deserve that even if he was too trusting of those people. I prayed every single day for this man to be vindicated for the sake of his children, but I guess lightning don't strike twice....

My household wasn't as abusive, but there was emotional neglect, being overprotected, infidelity and sometimes physical abuse. My nose was a joke too from classmates harshly, and lovingly from family if they playfully touched it. That's one things I'm insecure about, so I could relate to that about michael too though I don't want to touch it and learned how to accept it. But there were such good times too and there was a lot of affection as well, and those are things I try to remember, most of it through music memories and going fun places and doing fun things.

.

[Edited 2/10/11 4:13am]

MJJstudent said:

angel345 said:

Well, to cut the generalization, many Black Americans and the Black media has always supported MJ, correct, and some have felt he has betrayed his race. There's no denying it. I would say that most of his support came from blacks here and diverse cultures overboard. His record sales is a testament to that, especially in the last 15 years. Speaking for myself, I had his back, even when there were times that I felt that he didn't want to identify with the black community, especially in his "Thriller" days, but my family bought the album. Therefore, I would say that I had his back until his death.

[Edited 2/9/11 6:30am]

oh for sure, the black communities overseas definitely had his back. aside from the stuff released by johnson publications in the states, much of black america (not in the industry) resented him due to how he physically changed; and because he began to venture into rock, classical and other forms of music).

I would say aside from blacks across seas, there's your Asian, European, and Middle Eastern population as well.