MJJstudent said:

alphastreet said:

I like OTW and Thriller, but loooove Bad and Dangerous, especially Bad start to finish, and Dangerous for some of his most creative career moments.

I hear more Michael in Destiny and Triumph than the majority of OTW, but I LOOOOVE the singles, and songs like Rock With You and She's Out of My Life, though I have always loved them, sound so emotional and pure now and make me emotional and are good to sing along to.

have you seen the mexico performance in '75? check that out, especially when they do 'forever came today'... you hear a lot of the vocal developments of his adult self. he was doin' his THANG there!!!

i've never been too big on 'dirty diana' at all- that's the one song i skip on the album. and as much as i love 'the way you make me feel' i can't listen to the song anymore. i never saw the video when it was released (i didn't have MTV or anything), so when i saw it years later it ruined everything for me, because it made me think of a gang rape fantasy video. a lot of people think the video is great, but i almost had nightmares i think, after watching it. so now i can't even listen to the song. the rest of the album i think is great!

i totally agree with you in terms of 'hearing more of michael in destiny...' to me, destiny was the beginning of his artistic moment of truth. he was speaking a lot about his life there. he was crying out for help, but people really weren't trying to hear him. i think it's comperable to HIStory, in terms of what he was saying about his life. 'she's out of my life'... i first saw the video when i was a little kid, back in 1980. i never saw the video again until 2007. my love and concern for michael instantly grew. i just saw a sad individual and not a performer, in ways i never saw when i was a child.

Aw I love dirty diana, he is hot and I love rock music, so naturally I love everything about that look and video. I also love TWYMMF, but he's so adorable when trying to be "bad" And it's true what you said about Destiny, I bought it sometime around the time of the MSG concert and I was entering adulthood myself so I could relate to the words so much and loved the melodies. I just bought it cause I loved shake your body and blame it on the boogie for years, but was pleasantly surprised with the rest. Shortly after, I bought Triumph for Heartbreak Hotel and Can You Feel It, and same thing!

alphastreet said:

MJJstudent said:

have you seen the mexico performance in '75? check that out, especially when they do 'forever came today'... you hear a lot of the vocal developments of his adult self. he was doin' his THANG there!!!

i've never been too big on 'dirty diana' at all- that's the one song i skip on the album. and as much as i love 'the way you make me feel' i can't listen to the song anymore. i never saw the video when it was released (i didn't have MTV or anything), so when i saw it years later it ruined everything for me, because it made me think of a gang rape fantasy video. a lot of people think the video is great, but i almost had nightmares i think, after watching it. so now i can't even listen to the song. the rest of the album i think is great!

i totally agree with you in terms of 'hearing more of michael in destiny...' to me, destiny was the beginning of his artistic moment of truth. he was speaking a lot about his life there. he was crying out for help, but people really weren't trying to hear him. i think it's comperable to HIStory, in terms of what he was saying about his life. 'she's out of my life'... i first saw the video when i was a little kid, back in 1980. i never saw the video again until 2007. my love and concern for michael instantly grew. i just saw a sad individual and not a performer, in ways i never saw when i was a child.

Aw I love dirty diana, he is hot and I love rock music, so naturally I love everything about that look and video. I also love TWYMMF, but he's so adorable when trying to be "bad" And it's true what you said about Destiny, I bought it sometime around the time of the MSG concert and I was entering adulthood myself so I could relate to the words so much and loved the melodies. I just bought it cause I loved shake your body and blame it on the boogie for years, but was pleasantly surprised with the rest. Shortly after, I bought Triumph for Heartbreak Hotel and Can You Feel It, and same thing!

my mother used to play the 12" of 'shake your body' so i was familiar with that version before the album version... i moved from new york a year before the MSG concerts... it would have been crazy, still being there. the funny thing is, i grew up in brooklyn and used to see things filmed everywhere, but totally missed the filming of the 'bad' video.. they kept that under wraps! (at least to me). they filmed it at the hoyt-schermerhorn station, not too far from where i lived. i was in my late 20s or so, when the MSG concerts happened. i did know someone who went to one of them.

Wow I thought you were around my age or something (late 20's), how long have you been a fan? Or was it casual and became intense later on? First half of my life, I appreciated him as a superstar from afar, second half, I really got into him and rediscovered him through more material and was hooked since.

I have the shake your body vinyl too, cool!

alphastreet said:

Wow I thought you were around my age or something (late 20's), how long have you been a fan? Or was it casual and became intense later on? First half of my life, I appreciated him as a superstar from afar, second half, I really got into him and rediscovered him through more material and was hooked since.

I have the shake your body vinyl too, cool!

hee hee... i'm not that old at all... i'm in my mid 30s. i am old enough to have seen the jacksons, but not the J5. i actually grew up with michael's and his brothers' music since before i was born... my mother played michael ALL. THE. TIME. music was a huge part of our house. i had a michael doll, and i liked michael a lot, but i didn't LOVE him. i mean, i don't ever remember thinking he was really cute or anything. i loved 'wings of my love', 'human nature', shake your body down'... but i saw thriller when it came out, and i had nightmares... all his videos were so bombastic, they scared me tremendously. my sister was in love with both prince and michael. the both of them scared me.

i stopped watching tv regularly a little after the release of 'dangerous' so i wasn't really familiar with a lot michael did. i wasn't even aware of any of the court trials. i wasn't aware of any of the tours, the appearances, etc. the last thing i recall seeing michael do on tv was the second half of the 'black or white' film. i think i saw a blurb about the video he did at neverland about the strip search, but i never put two and two together at the time.

my relationship with michael had been off and on over the years, since i never kept up with him. i never followed anything on major media, so i had no way of knowing anything. but i kind of started getting back into michael's art about 2002 or so... i just felt a need to listen to michael. and it wasn't until about 2005, when i wanted to hear him more. still, i didn't begin to listen to him again a whole lot until 2007.

i began writing a book in 2007, on my personal journey in relation to michael. this was when my love for him grew. the more i wrote and researched his life and works, the more i began to identify with him (for reasons i will not explain here). for me, i didn't look at him as a performer; he became my teacher. i ceased writing the book in 2009, out of respect. there are other things i do in its place i suppose. ultimately though, i don't think i can ever repay all the things he's taught me. there's a lot i'm not writing here of course- it's a long story.

i pretty much never saw anything about the 2005 trial or the bashir interviews until 2007 or 2008. i missed out on that whole thing, so it gave me a different viewpoint on it all. i absorbed all i could on michael in the shortest amount of time. my education was quite condensed. i dedicated all of my time i was not working or doing radio to michael. in many ways, i still do.

i love learning mostly about how he worked- his work ethic. his skill at arrangement. his marketing decisions. i don't care so much about him as a performer, as much as i am interested in his message. i prefer watching him off the stage. he is compelling. his posture, his cadence, where his eyes go. these things tell the narrative. i love watching his hands. it's interesting watching hm perform though; there is usually a beam of light around him. it's very subtle, but it's there. he was a brilliant being.

again, i'm not even saying everything i'd like to say, but that's a different conversation.

"Butterflies" probably ranks up there as one of the best ballads he's ever done - to me, anyway.

armpit said:

"Butterflies" probably ranks up there as one of the best ballads he's ever done - to me, anyway.

it's a beautiful one, for sure...

MJJstudent said:

alphastreet said:

Wow I thought you were around my age or something (late 20's), how long have you been a fan? Or was it casual and became intense later on? First half of my life, I appreciated him as a superstar from afar, second half, I really got into him and rediscovered him through more material and was hooked since.

I have the shake your body vinyl too, cool!

hee hee... i'm not that old at all... i'm in my mid 30s. i am old enough to have seen the jacksons, but not the J5. i actually grew up with michael's and his brothers' music since before i was born... my mother played michael ALL. THE. TIME. music was a huge part of our house. i had a michael doll, and i liked michael a lot, but i didn't LOVE him. i mean, i don't ever remember thinking he was really cute or anything. i loved 'wings of my love', 'human nature', shake your body down'... but i saw thriller when it came out, and i had nightmares... all his videos were so bombastic, they scared me tremendously. my sister was in love with both prince and michael. the both of them scared me.

i stopped watching tv regularly a little after the release of 'dangerous' so i wasn't really familiar with a lot michael did. i wasn't even aware of any of the court trials. i wasn't aware of any of the tours, the appearances, etc. the last thing i recall seeing michael do on tv was the second half of the 'black or white' film. i think i saw a blurb about the video he did at neverland about the strip search, but i never put two and two together at the time.

my relationship with michael had been off and on over the years, since i never kept up with him. i never followed anything on major media, so i had no way of knowing anything. but i kind of started getting back into michael's art about 2002 or so... i just felt a need to listen to michael. and it wasn't until about 2005, when i wanted to hear him more. still, i didn't begin to listen to him again a whole lot until 2007.

i began writing a book in 2007, on my personal journey in relation to michael. this was when my love for him grew. the more i wrote and researched his life and works, the more i began to identify with him (for reasons i will not explain here). for me, i didn't look at him as a performer; he became my teacher. i ceased writing the book in 2009, out of respect. there are other things i do in its place i suppose. ultimately though, i don't think i can ever repay all the things he's taught me. there's a lot i'm not writing here of course- it's a long story.

i pretty much never saw anything about the 2005 trial or the bashir interviews until 2007 or 2008. i missed out on that whole thing, so it gave me a different viewpoint on it all. i absorbed all i could on michael in the shortest amount of time. my education was quite condensed. i dedicated all of my time i was not working or doing radio to michael. in many ways, i still do.

i love learning mostly about how he worked- his work ethic. his skill at arrangement. his marketing decisions. i don't care so much about him as a performer, as much as i am interested in his message. i prefer watching him off the stage. he is compelling. his posture, his cadence, where his eyes go. these things tell the narrative. i love watching his hands. it's interesting watching hm perform though; there is usually a beam of light around him. it's very subtle, but it's there. he was a brilliant being.

again, i'm not even saying everything i'd like to say, but that's a different conversation.

I wish you all the best with your future endeavours....also I was intensely studying him too at different points though it was on and off. I've written music and poetry inspired by my love for him and used to think about doing stuff with it too, but like you, also would not want to do it right away. And though I love him as a performer, I also love him as a person. I could really relate to him, but at other times I couldn't quite anymore and then realized later it's cause I really lost myself too and was confused about my own life . I don't know what it is with Michael and just getting people so hooked on him by doing nothing at times I miss him so much, having that said :*( I know I didn't know him, yet I did and I feel like I've been cut off from him and wanted to feel his love and I desired it.

nd33 said:

HatrinaHaterwitz said:

Word. How many signatures does there need to be before we can end this lame locking all MJ threads business?

Those giant long sticky of gobble-dee-goop aren't conducive to proper conversation, it's far too broad.

Hell I want this to stay on. Least we can discuss THE SONG.

Mike's vocals here=PERFECTION. Epic vocals. Just beautiful.

I think "Break of Dawn" is my fave song from "Invincible" but Michael sang the hell out of "Butterflies". I love that song so much.

Cinnamon234 said:

Mike's vocals here=PERFECTION. Epic vocals. Just beautiful.

I think "Break of Dawn" is my fave song from "Invincible" but Michael sang the hell out of "Butterflies". I love that song so much.

'heaven can wait' is perfection... 'butterflies'... 'speechless'. 'break of dawn' is great. 'whatever happens'. that album is amazing. i am partial to michael's ballads, so i love when he does them.

Cinnamon234 said:

Mike's vocals here=PERFECTION. Epic vocals. Just beautiful.

I think "Break of Dawn" is my fave song from "Invincible" but Michael sang the hell out of "Butterflies". I love that song so much.

Like mjjstudent just said, the ballads were great. They really made that album for me...

ufoclub said:

Hell yes, I agree with both of you there, the ballads were the best part of the album! I think aside from maybe "Lady In My Life" and a few others, "Invincible" contains MJ's most mature and yes sexy ballads ever.

I think "Break of Dawn", "Heaven Can Wait", "Butterflies" and "Don't Walk Away" are some of the strongest ballads of his career.

^ Don't forget "Whatever Happens".

I wonder if there is a video of him doing just his background vocals to "Butterflies", I tried searching for it last night to no avail.

armpit said:

"Butterflies" probably ranks up there as one of the best ballads he's ever done - to me, anyway.

ITA. I remember walking down the street one day and I heard someone playing Butterflies and then I was thinking that "Wow...that guys sounds like MJ." Then I heard DJ say that it was MJ and I couldn't believe it. His vocal delivery was so amazing. My favorite part will always be that falsetto.

Timmy84 said:

^ Don't forget "Whatever Happens".

I wonder if there is a video of him doing just his background vocals to "Butterflies", I tried searching for it last night to no avail.

yeah, i mentioned 'whatever happens'... his voice is so beautiful. why do people say he fell off? i maintain that invincible is one of my favourite works from him... i could only imagine the loads of tapes of him on camera. i wonder if the estate, or family has a hold of those. i mean, who has all that stuff? does sony?

4luvnpce said:

ufoclub said:

acapella

Many times people use the phrase "so and so sings like an angel" and it might sound corny, but listening to this, I imagine that this is what an angel might sound like.

I love the original, but the acapella version is just outstanding. Pure, raw talent right there.

Cinnamon234 said:

4luvnpce said:

ufoclub said:

Many times people use the phrase "so and so sings like an angel" and it might sound corny, but listening to this, I imagine that this is what an angel might sound like.

I love the original, but the acapella version is just outstanding. Pure, raw talent right there.

IT SOUNDS LIKE HE'S USING A FLANGER EFFECT ON HIS VOCALS THOUGH, WHICH HE ENDING UP USING A LOT, BEGINNING WITH 'DANGEROUS'... STILL, AT LEAST IT'S NOT FREAKING AUTOTUNE.

oops, i left it on caps lock... it's essentially the same kind of effect STEVIE used a whole lot on his records. michael rehearsed for hours before he even recorded anything. the hardest-working man in show business, after james brown.

MJJstudent said:

Cinnamon234 said:

Many times people use the phrase "so and so sings like an angel" and it might sound corny, but listening to this, I imagine that this is what an angel might sound like.

I love the original, but the acapella version is just outstanding. Pure, raw talent right there.

IT SOUNDS LIKE HE'S USING A FLANGER EFFECT ON HIS VOCALS THOUGH, WHICH HE ENDING UP USING A LOT, BEGINNING WITH 'DANGEROUS'... STILL, AT LEAST IT'S NOT FREAKING AUTOTUNE.

oops, i left it on caps lock... it's essentially the same kind of effect STEVIE used a whole lot on his records. michael rehearsed for hours before he even recorded anything. the hardest-working man in show business, after james brown.

The acapella version sounds like he's doing it with a weird cool buzz from his throat... let me listen again to that one

ufoclub said:

MJJstudent said:

IT SOUNDS LIKE HE'S USING A FLANGER EFFECT ON HIS VOCALS THOUGH, WHICH HE ENDING UP USING A LOT, BEGINNING WITH 'DANGEROUS'... STILL, AT LEAST IT'S NOT FREAKING AUTOTUNE.

oops, i left it on caps lock... it's essentially the same kind of effect STEVIE used a whole lot on his records. michael rehearsed for hours before he even recorded anything. the hardest-working man in show business, after james brown.

The acapella version sounds like he's doing it with a weird cool buzz from his throat... let me listen again to that one

compare it with songs like 'jam', 'break of dawn', 'dangerous' and others. it's got the same effect. also, songs like 'girl blue' by STEVIE... similar effects are used. the way michael used it is a bit more subtle though.

MJJstudent said:

Timmy84 said:

^ Don't forget "Whatever Happens".

I wonder if there is a video of him doing just his background vocals to "Butterflies", I tried searching for it last night to no avail.

yeah, i mentioned 'whatever happens'... his voice is so beautiful. why do people say he fell off? i maintain that invincible is one of my favourite works from him... i could only imagine the loads of tapes of him on camera. i wonder if the estate, or family has a hold of those. i mean, who has all that stuff? does sony?

Thriller.

That's all you need to know.

Timmy84 said:

MJJstudent said:

yeah, i mentioned 'whatever happens'... his voice is so beautiful. why do people say he fell off? i maintain that invincible is one of my favourite works from him... i could only imagine the loads of tapes of him on camera. i wonder if the estate, or family has a hold of those. i mean, who has all that stuff? does sony?

Thriller.

That's all you need to know.

i think i am going to go cry now.

MJJstudent said:

Timmy84 said:

Thriller.

That's all you need to know.

i think i am going to go cry now.

You know the media would never respect anything else he did after that album. That's how those idiots roll. Fuck 'em.

Timmy84 said:

MJJstudent said:

i think i am going to go cry now.

You know the media would never respect anything else he did after that album. That's how those idiots roll. Fuck 'em.

i try to think of it that way, but it still hurts. i mean, give a brotha a chance, you know? you can't do the same album for the rest of your life.

THIS is the song that carried Invincible to over 2 million in sales in the USA.

Make no mistake.

I still remember how the album consistently sold over 100k week after week while this song was killing it at urban radio.

Kind of fitting that MJ's last big hit of his career was because of Black America.

MJJstudent said:

Timmy84 said:

You know the media would never respect anything else he did after that album. That's how those idiots roll. Fuck 'em.

i try to think of it that way, but it still hurts. i mean, give a brotha a chance, you know? you can't do the same album for the rest of your life.

People are fickle, too stuck in their own zone that they can't see anybody going out of it to get into different zones. And they start respecting it after that person has died.

amit1234 said:

THIS is the song that carried Invincible to over 2 million in sales in the USA.

Make no mistake.

I still remember how the album consistently sold over 100k week after week while this song was killing it at urban radio.

Kind of fitting that MJ's last big hit of his career was because of Black America.

Black America has always had his back until death

amit1234 said:

THIS is the song that carried Invincible to over 2 million in sales in the USA.

Make no mistake.

I still remember how the album consistently sold over 100k week after week while this song was killing it at urban radio.

Kind of fitting that MJ's last big hit of his career was because of Black America.

oh MAN! that is such a great point! things definitely come full circle. i saw on this british program once, this one guy interviewed was discussing how 'invincible' didn't do as well because it was declared 'too black' by the majority. who knows if this was the case; ultimately it was sony's lack of promotion that prevented things from happening. but thanks to people who leaked the song, yeah, the album did better than i guess they wanted it to. because they certainly printed some copies of the single. then ceased its release. so all you had was promos, more or less.

Timmy84 said:

MJJstudent said:

i think i am going to go cry now.

You know the media would never respect anything else he did after that album. That's how those idiots roll. Fuck 'em.

Once again .... how's in, how's out who's hot who's not. The media and it's critics build up you then comes the (speaking only of hs music only) inevitable tare down. As I've mentioned before, I really didn't follow MJ that closely after "Off THe Wall", he wasn't the only game in town. Even so the work after "Thriller" was substanial, very substanial.

TD3 said:

Timmy84 said:

You know the media would never respect anything else he did after that album. That's how those idiots roll. Fuck 'em.

Once again .... how's in, how's out who's hot who's not. The media and it's critics build up you then comes the (speaking only of hs music only) inevitable tare down. As I've mentioned before, I really didn't follow MJ that closely after "Off THe Wall", he wasn't the only game in town. Even so the work after "Thriller" was substanial, very substanial.

Yeah it works with any artist.