HMV is to close 60 of its UK stores over the next 12 months, the company has confirmed.

The music retailer has seen shares fall drastically recently, with Christmas sales also down 10 percent. By closing the stores, it is hoped that the company will be able to control its costs more efficiently, reports BBC News.

The move comes as a result of "challenging trading conditions" and the recent bad weather, according to the company, although chief executive Simon Fox remained positive about HMV's future.

"The pace of change in the markets in which we operate underlines the urgency with which we must continue to transform this business," Fox explained.

High street competitors including Woolworths and Zavvi have both ceased trading in recent years.

Thanks for the report to Nme.com.

Good riddance I say.

Why would anybody pay £10-15 for a CD from HMV when you can get it for £3-5 on Amazon?? At least on Amazon you can find exactly what you're looking for. I can't tell you the amount of times I've looked for an old catalogue CD in HMV only to find empty shelves. Beyond the top 40 they don't really stock much music these days. Not only that, they are obviously far more interested in selling DVDs and computer games. It's supposed to be a music shop and yet in my local branch you have to go to the second floor to even find a CD. As far as I'm concerned they've bought this on themselves.

MattyJam said:

Good riddance I say.

Why would anybody pay £10-15 for a CD from HMV when you can get it for £3-5 on Amazon?? At least on Amazon you can find exactly what you're looking for. I can't tell you the amount of times I've looked for an old catalogue CD in HMV only to find empty shelves. Beyond the top 40 they don't really stock much music these days. Not only that, they are obviously far more interested in selling DVDs and computer games. It's supposed to be a music shop and yet in my local branch you have to go to the second floor to even find a CD. As far as I'm concerned they've bought this on themselves.

so 10 years of free downloading of music, movies, videogames, tv shows etc etc etc, and online sales from play, cdwow and amazon who don't have to pay VAT when based outside of the uk, plus reduced overheads isn't the reason? what about legal downloads like itunes?

it's the dvds and computer games that helped keep them afloat when so many people opted to download music instead, even dvd sales have reduced because faster broadband makes it easier for people to download movies. it's only because it's a bit harder to play pirate videogames that the market hasn't declined so much

they simply can't compete when mail order stores can sell products 20% cheaper due to VAT alone

unique said:

MattyJam said:

Good riddance I say.

Why would anybody pay £10-15 for a CD from HMV when you can get it for £3-5 on Amazon?? At least on Amazon you can find exactly what you're looking for. I can't tell you the amount of times I've looked for an old catalogue CD in HMV only to find empty shelves. Beyond the top 40 they don't really stock much music these days. Not only that, they are obviously far more interested in selling DVDs and computer games. It's supposed to be a music shop and yet in my local branch you have to go to the second floor to even find a CD. As far as I'm concerned they've bought this on themselves.

so 10 years of free downloading of music, movies, videogames, tv shows etc etc etc, and online sales from play, cdwow and amazon who don't have to pay VAT when based outside of the uk, plus reduced overheads isn't the reason? what about legal downloads like itunes?

it's the dvds and computer games that helped keep them afloat when so many people opted to download music instead, even dvd sales have reduced because faster broadband makes it easier for people to download movies. it's only because it's a bit harder to play pirate videogames that the market hasn't declined so much

they simply can't compete when mail order stores can sell products 20% cheaper due to VAT alone

But still, HMV should've remained a MUSIC shop. They could've downsized and become more niche and specialist, instead of reducing their music stock to just the top 40 and a pitiful selection of catalogue albums. I for one would still be buying CDs at HMV if I believed they still gave a shit about selling music.

I buy at least one CD a week but I stopped shopping at HMV years ago and it wasn't even because of the extra cost. I was just sick of going there and never finding the CD I wanted.

[Edited 1/8/11 13:32pm]

Can't say I didn't see this coming. I was in HMV the other day (for the first time in ages) and I noticed they are now selling everything from snacks to energy drinks, to mobile phones, to various memoribilia. My cousin remarked that it was beginning to resemble a jumble sale.

It's a shame. HMV was good even as recently as a decade ago. Even in the small town I lived in at that time, the HMV store carried pretty hard to find independent hip-hop and rare funk CD's. Around 2004-2005 was when it really all started going to shit from my recollection. They began downsizing the music sections to start pushing DVDs and games more, and slowly started branching out into selling other things too.

I wouldn't be surprised if they close all the stores before 2013.

MattyJam said:

unique said:

so 10 years of free downloading of music, movies, videogames, tv shows etc etc etc, and online sales from play, cdwow and amazon who don't have to pay VAT when based outside of the uk, plus reduced overheads isn't the reason? what about legal downloads like itunes?

it's the dvds and computer games that helped keep them afloat when so many people opted to download music instead, even dvd sales have reduced because faster broadband makes it easier for people to download movies. it's only because it's a bit harder to play pirate videogames that the market hasn't declined so much

they simply can't compete when mail order stores can sell products 20% cheaper due to VAT alone

But still, HMV should've remained a MUSIC shop. They could've downsized and become more niche and specialist, instead of reducing their music stock to just the top 40 and a pitiful selection of catalogue albums. I for one would still be buying CDs at HMV if I believed they still gave a shit about selling music.

I buy at least one CD a week but I stopped shopping at HMV years ago and it wasn't even because of the extra cost. I was just sick of going there and never finding the CD I wanted.

[Edited 1/8/11 13:32pm]

you might not be aware, but HMV is part of a business, and the aim of a business is to make as much profit as possible. they had god knows how many large stores, so instead of closing loads of them down to just sell a product that people can get for free by downloading, or cheaper by ordering from online companies compared to selling products that people want to buy that will make you a profit, is a no brain choice

you buying 1 cd a week isn't going to keep them afloat. when i worked for hmv there were loads of regulars spending £50-£100 a week on cds alone, and now most of those people spend next to nothing and download stuff for free instead

On a side note, Best Buy is pulling music down 80% more starting in February the start of the next quarter in almost all locations, CD stock will be down to under 3% of what the stores stock.

Militant said:

Can't say I didn't see this coming. I was in HMV the other day (for the first time in ages) and I noticed they are now selling everything from snacks to energy drinks, to mobile phones, to various memoribilia. My cousin remarked that it was beginning to resemble a jumble sale.

It's a shame. HMV was good even as recently as a decade ago. Even in the small town I lived in at that time, the HMV store carried pretty hard to find independent hip-hop and rare funk CD's. Around 2004-2005 was when it really all started going to shit from my recollection. They began downsizing the music sections to start pushing DVDs and games more, and slowly started branching out into selling other things too.

I wouldn't be surprised if they close all the stores before 2013.

i wouldn't be surprised either. they are just selling whatever they can to try and keep afloat. they need a major change. perhaps going down the best buy route of selling cds and dvds as a lossleader like asda and tesco, with prices closer to amazon etc, and selling reasonably priced electronic goods to make a profit, with people coming in for the cheap cds and dvds and passing by the electonic goods on the way. with the likes of dixons and comet moving stores out of town and employing only braindead fuckwits, they may be able to come up with a reasonable alternative. and with electronic goods generally being bigger and over the £18 VAT import threshold, there is less competition from online sales as there isn't the instant 20% vat saving from jersey, plus shipping costs

most companies have moved with the changes, play used to only sell dvds (and cds too, or was that a little bit later), then moved to computer games, then books, now they sell all sorts of stuff just like amazon. even cdwow sell all sorts of shite these days

lastdecember said:

On a side note, Best Buy is pulling music down 80% more starting in February the start of the next quarter in almost all locations, CD stock will be down to under 3% of what the stores stock.

is that uk best buy or usa or both?

they don't have many stores in the uk really, so not much of a competition to hmv, but if they did do that then it opens a door for hmv. best buy had grand plans of expansion in the uk, but the recession put a stop to that

unique said:

lastdecember said:

On a side note, Best Buy is pulling music down 80% more starting in February the start of the next quarter in almost all locations, CD stock will be down to under 3% of what the stores stock.

is that uk best buy or usa or both?

they don't have many stores in the uk really, so not much of a competition to hmv, but if they did do that then it opens a door for hmv. best buy had grand plans of expansion in the uk, but the recession put a stop to that

USA, they are eliminating Music DVDs in certain locations 100%. To me looking in these stores (best buy that is) the selection is so bad (and im in a major city of NYC) that i dont understand why they even carry it at this point, because people i talk to at labels that go into Best Buy, say Best Buy regards music as "taking up space" at this point, its nothing but a loss to them.

lastdecember said:

unique said:

is that uk best buy or usa or both?

they don't have many stores in the uk really, so not much of a competition to hmv, but if they did do that then it opens a door for hmv. best buy had grand plans of expansion in the uk, but the recession put a stop to that

USA, they are eliminating Music DVDs in certain locations 100%. To me looking in these stores (best buy that is) the selection is so bad (and im in a major city of NYC) that i dont understand why they even carry it at this point, because people i talk to at labels that go into Best Buy, say Best Buy regards music as "taking up space" at this point, its nothing but a loss to them.

the states are a bit different to the uk when it comes to stores. hmv are more of a high street store, whereas best buy is more of a strip mall type store, like an out of town store, and don't you have more places that offer discount goods, and people more used to travelling a bit further for them?

in the uk the high street stores are the most common places for buying goods in stores, the out of town locations are more for bigger goods such as white goods and tv's etc, or DIY stuff. even then, we don't have many bulk discount type places. there are a few places that claim to be bulk discount, but aren't really that much cheaper, they hide the sales tax (called VAT which is 20%) which normal stores are required by law to include, but some stores masquerade as wholesalers and require membership to shop in (you can usually apply and get a membership instantly and for free, but it means filling in forms instead of just walking in a store and browsing, thus not the same shopping experience) and show prices without VAT which makes it harder to see the real price, plus you have to buy many items in bulk, and sometimes you can get the stuff cheaper in other stores that don't have all that mucking about

HMV's main competitor went bust about a year or 2 ago (zavvi which was bought out by staff and management from virgin record stores) so most people thought HMV would get all that business and do well, as both stores sold the same stuff at similar prices and many high streets had both stores nearby, but the obviously rested on their laurels a bit and instead of changing, they kept on doing the same thing which has just got them into a bigger mess

oh no. HMV is quite populus in western Canada, and I would hate to see it go. I can't even complain about the prices anymore.

lastdecember said:

On a side note, Best Buy is pulling music down 80% more starting in February the start of the next quarter in almost all locations, CD stock will be down to under 3% of what the stores stock.

Best Buy has already done this here. The side that used to be music is all games related, and now music is ONE aisle of rock/pop, and the other side of the aisle is the top 20 CDs.

Cinnie said:

lastdecember said:

On a side note, Best Buy is pulling music down 80% more starting in February the start of the next quarter in almost all locations, CD stock will be down to under 3% of what the stores stock.

Best Buy has already done this here. The side that used to be music is all games related, and now music is ONE aisle of rock/pop, and the other side of the aisle is the top 20 CDs.

I have a Borders Books and Music in my hometown, and while it was primarily a bookstore with some music and movies thrown in, their music selection has virtually diasppeared. The store used to be about 60% books, 20% movies/DVD's and 20% music, but it's now about 75% books, 24% movies/DVD's, and a couple of stands of music, usually just the top 40 albums plus a few catalog artists such as the Beatles, Led Zeppelin, and Michael Jackson.

728huey said:

Cinnie said:

Best Buy has already done this here. The side that used to be music is all games related, and now music is ONE aisle of rock/pop, and the other side of the aisle is the top 20 CDs.

I have a Borders Books and Music in my hometown, and while it was primarily a bookstore with some music and movies thrown in, their music selection has virtually diasppeared. The store used to be about 60% books, 20% movies/DVD's and 20% music, but it's now about 75% books, 24% movies/DVD's, and a couple of stands of music, usually just the top 40 albums plus a few catalog artists such as the Beatles, Led Zeppelin, and Michael Jackson.

Yep, that too. The book store Indigo was like this.

unique said:

MattyJam said:

But still, HMV should've remained a MUSIC shop. They could've downsized and become more niche and specialist, instead of reducing their music stock to just the top 40 and a pitiful selection of catalogue albums. I for one would still be buying CDs at HMV if I believed they still gave a shit about selling music.

I buy at least one CD a week but I stopped shopping at HMV years ago and it wasn't even because of the extra cost. I was just sick of going there and never finding the CD I wanted.

[Edited 1/8/11 13:32pm]

you might not be aware, but HMV is part of a business, and the aim of a business is to make as much profit as possible. they had god knows how many large stores, so instead of closing loads of them down to just sell a product that people can get for free by downloading, or cheaper by ordering from online companies compared to selling products that people want to buy that will make you a profit, is a no brain choice

you buying 1 cd a week isn't going to keep them afloat. when i worked for hmv there were loads of regulars spending £50-£100 a week on cds alone, and now most of those people spend next to nothing and download stuff for free instead

Thankyou for your wonderful insights, I wasn't aware that HMV was actually a business until you pointed it out to me.

The point I was making is that there are still people who would rather buy a physical format than illegally download. HMV needed to evolve to survive, and they refused to do this. They've turned off the people who do still buy physical formats by refusing to lower their prices and deciding to prioritise DVDs and computer games over CDs. I'm sure I'm one of many music fans who a decade earlier would've been really upset by the thought of HMV closing. I now don't give a shit, because as someone else pointed out, their stores resemble a jumble sale these days.

If I wanted to buy a CD that isn't in the top 40 the last place I'd look is HMV. Ten years previous you could buy all kinds of imports, catalogue albums, obscure genres in store. Are you really saying this change hasn't contributed at all to their drop in profits??

Look after your customers and they will stay loyal to you. Piss them off and they'll go elsewhere.

nooooooooo! Well I hope the Canadian HMV remains open

MattyJam said:

unique said:

you might not be aware, but HMV is part of a business, and the aim of a business is to make as much profit as possible. they had god knows how many large stores, so instead of closing loads of them down to just sell a product that people can get for free by downloading, or cheaper by ordering from online companies compared to selling products that people want to buy that will make you a profit, is a no brain choice

you buying 1 cd a week isn't going to keep them afloat. when i worked for hmv there were loads of regulars spending £50-£100 a week on cds alone, and now most of those people spend next to nothing and download stuff for free instead

Thankyou for your wonderful insights, I wasn't aware that HMV was actually a business until you pointed it out to me.

The point I was making is that there are still people who would rather buy a physical format than illegally download. HMV needed to evolve to survive, and they refused to do this. They've turned off the people who do still buy physical formats by refusing to lower their prices and deciding to prioritise DVDs and computer games over CDs. I'm sure I'm one of many music fans who a decade earlier would've been really upset by the thought of HMV closing. I now don't give a shit, because as someone else pointed out, their stores resemble a jumble sale these days.

If I wanted to buy a CD that isn't in the top 40 the last place I'd look is HMV. Ten years previous you could buy all kinds of imports, catalogue albums, obscure genres in store. Are you really saying this change hasn't contributed at all to their drop in profits??

Look after your customers and they will stay loyal to you. Piss them off and they'll go elsewhere.

you are contradicting yourself now. one minute you say they should have stayed a music store, the next you say they should have evolved, and previously you expressed your dislike for the way they have evolved

25 years ago hmv was mainly records, tapes, t shirts and concert tickets, a few calendars at xmas time. then videotapes slowly became introduced, then cd came along and slowly the tapes and records dissapeared, then dvd came along and replace the videotapes. hmv kept pretty much out of the computer game market until napster took the music business out it's hands and play, cdwow and amazon ripped the rest of the music sales and took a large chunk of the dvd sales, so they had to look at other markets like gaming to stay in business, but as the other online stores and then supermarkets looked to grab that business they now struggle to sell any music related items or other items of interest to the youth market it aims for, thus mobile phones and ipod accessories

the main problem is the internet killed the business, downloading and then online sales. if HMV reduced the prices they would make less profit thus struggle even further. the problem with legit sales is HMV can't compete with online retailers offering items for sale at a cheaper price because they don't have to charge twenty percent value added tax. thus a £20 item in HMV can be sold for £16 online, with the same markup. a £40 game in HMV can be sold for £32 online with the same mark up. if HMV sold at those prices it wouldn't make any profit, thus wouldn't be able to pay wages, rent, rates, electricity, and other overheads

whilst it's great for consumers, the VAT loophole is fucking UK retailers up the arse, as well as fucking over the public. they aren't playing on the same field as the online retailers operating from jersey, or in some cases operating from the UK and using jersey solely as a base to avoid tax. at least play are actually based in jersey. the music retailers already got shafted by napster and other p2p making music and movies free, then itunes making downloading music easy and legal for those with a modicum of honesty, and the government hasn't helped by increasing VAT from 15% to 20% and letting countries from outside the uk sell items, not pay tax and undercut legal UK businesses and take away business from them

most of the items HMV sell are small items that can easily be bought online cheaper, and easily shipped and stuck through letterboxes. why should anyone bother leaving home and paying more money? you can browse from the comfort of your own home whilst eating, drinking, smoking, listening to music and watching tv, and you can google up reviews or hear samples of what you want to buy first, and find the cheapest place to buy from, and the item drops through your door in a few days, or if you can't wait you can download legally or illegally and listen instantly, and if you have morals you can download illegally to get a quick fix and still pay for the cd. the artists and record companies don't get paid more depending on how much you pay at retail

the people who do want physical media are in decline. most people listen to music on portable players like ipods and don't need or care about having a cd or even lossless quality, that's why itunes is so popular, and why napster was also so popular. cds and dvds can take up shitloads of space for a big collector, but even people with absolutely massive collections can usually stick everything on a 2tb or 3tb drive, or failing that 2 or 3 drives. if people cared about quality, we wouldn't end up going from cd quality to lossy mp3 quality, and mp3 sales increasing whilst cd sales decline. most people just want to hear the tune. the audophiles make up such a small percentage of consumers that stores are rightly ignoring their needs in order to appeal to the customers who will give them a profit. the top 20 shit of the week is what sells and makes money and keeps the stores afloat. if you want something that doesn't require a computer to make someones voice seem palatable enough to put on cd, you can easily buy it online instead

HMV were never the trendy retailer, never was, never will be, and aren't at the moment. indie stores sold the non chart material, but most of those have been killed off by p2p and internet shopping, and HMV survived. even fopp went bust, another company i worked for, and HMV took over. fopps original policy was to sell what HMV didn't specialise in, thus indie and jazz and hip hop and rnb (that's soul and funk, not garageband and ringtones), but p2p, itunes and internet sales eventually drove them to the ground. HMV took over some of the stores, but they just weren't the same, mainly as fopp expanded too fast and at the wrong time, they expanded just before p2p and internet shopping exploded, but they were tied into long leases with the new stores they opened, so couldn't close as quickly as they opened

as time goes on, more and more people will get used to internet shopping for both physical items and downloads. with many music players coming out without even cd players, it's forcing many people to listen to music from non physical formats, whether they buy as downloads or have to rip from cds and have them gathering dust on shelves. even audiophiles are playing music from harddrive bases sources, using streamers and digital jukeboxes to access the music they want. in the last 10 years i've rarely played a cd apart from when djing. that's the way things are moving for everyone. there will eventually come a time when cds and dvds and blurays will stop being sold and all content will be available through digital download only, and thus completely negating the need for stores like HMV

unique said:

MattyJam said:

Thankyou for your wonderful insights, I wasn't aware that HMV was actually a business until you pointed it out to me.

The point I was making is that there are still people who would rather buy a physical format than illegally download. HMV needed to evolve to survive, and they refused to do this. They've turned off the people who do still buy physical formats by refusing to lower their prices and deciding to prioritise DVDs and computer games over CDs. I'm sure I'm one of many music fans who a decade earlier would've been really upset by the thought of HMV closing. I now don't give a shit, because as someone else pointed out, their stores resemble a jumble sale these days.

If I wanted to buy a CD that isn't in the top 40 the last place I'd look is HMV. Ten years previous you could buy all kinds of imports, catalogue albums, obscure genres in store. Are you really saying this change hasn't contributed at all to their drop in profits??

Look after your customers and they will stay loyal to you. Piss them off and they'll go elsewhere.

you are contradicting yourself now. one minute you say they should have stayed a music store, the next you say they should have evolved, and previously you expressed your dislike for the way they have evolved

25 years ago hmv was mainly records, tapes, t shirts and concert tickets, a few calendars at xmas time. then videotapes slowly became introduced, then cd came along and slowly the tapes and records dissapeared, then dvd came along and replace the videotapes. hmv kept pretty much out of the computer game market until napster took the music business out it's hands and play, cdwow and amazon ripped the rest of the music sales and took a large chunk of the dvd sales, so they had to look at other markets like gaming to stay in business, but as the other online stores and then supermarkets looked to grab that business they now struggle to sell any music related items or other items of interest to the youth market it aims for, thus mobile phones and ipod accessories

the main problem is the internet killed the business, downloading and then online sales. if HMV reduced the prices they would make less profit thus struggle even further. the problem with legit sales is HMV can't compete with online retailers offering items for sale at a cheaper price because they don't have to charge twenty percent value added tax. thus a £20 item in HMV can be sold for £16 online, with the same markup. a £40 game in HMV can be sold for £32 online with the same mark up. if HMV sold at those prices it wouldn't make any profit, thus wouldn't be able to pay wages, rent, rates, electricity, and other overheads

whilst it's great for consumers, the VAT loophole is fucking UK retailers up the arse, as well as fucking over the public. they aren't playing on the same field as the online retailers operating from jersey, or in some cases operating from the UK and using jersey solely as a base to avoid tax. at least play are actually based in jersey. the music retailers already got shafted by napster and other p2p making music and movies free, then itunes making downloading music easy and legal for those with a modicum of honesty, and the government hasn't helped by increasing VAT from 15% to 20% and letting countries from outside the uk sell items, not pay tax and undercut legal UK businesses and take away business from them

most of the items HMV sell are small items that can easily be bought online cheaper, and easily shipped and stuck through letterboxes. why should anyone bother leaving home and paying more money? you can browse from the comfort of your own home whilst eating, drinking, smoking, listening to music and watching tv, and you can google up reviews or hear samples of what you want to buy first, and find the cheapest place to buy from, and the item drops through your door in a few days, or if you can't wait you can download legally or illegally and listen instantly, and if you have morals you can download illegally to get a quick fix and still pay for the cd. the artists and record companies don't get paid more depending on how much you pay at retail

the people who do want physical media are in decline. most people listen to music on portable players like ipods and don't need or care about having a cd or even lossless quality, that's why itunes is so popular, and why napster was also so popular. cds and dvds can take up shitloads of space for a big collector, but even people with absolutely massive collections can usually stick everything on a 2tb or 3tb drive, or failing that 2 or 3 drives. if people cared about quality, we wouldn't end up going from cd quality to lossy mp3 quality, and mp3 sales increasing whilst cd sales decline. most people just want to hear the tune. the audophiles make up such a small percentage of consumers that stores are rightly ignoring their needs in order to appeal to the customers who will give them a profit. the top 20 shit of the week is what sells and makes money and keeps the stores afloat. if you want something that doesn't require a computer to make someones voice seem palatable enough to put on cd, you can easily buy it online instead

HMV were never the trendy retailer, never was, never will be, and aren't at the moment. indie stores sold the non chart material, but most of those have been killed off by p2p and internet shopping, and HMV survived. even fopp went bust, another company i worked for, and HMV took over. fopps original policy was to sell what HMV didn't specialise in, thus indie and jazz and hip hop and rnb (that's soul and funk, not garageband and ringtones), but p2p, itunes and internet sales eventually drove them to the ground. HMV took over some of the stores, but they just weren't the same, mainly as fopp expanded too fast and at the wrong time, they expanded just before p2p and internet shopping exploded, but they were tied into long leases with the new stores they opened, so couldn't close as quickly as they opened

as time goes on, more and more people will get used to internet shopping for both physical items and downloads. with many music players coming out without even cd players, it's forcing many people to listen to music from non physical formats, whether they buy as downloads or have to rip from cds and have them gathering dust on shelves. even audiophiles are playing music from harddrive bases sources, using streamers and digital jukeboxes to access the music they want. in the last 10 years i've rarely played a cd apart from when djing. that's the way things are moving for everyone. there will eventually come a time when cds and dvds and blurays will stop being sold and all content will be available through digital download only, and thus completely negating the need for stores like HMV

I'm not contradicting myself at all. When I said they should've evolved, I meant that they should've recognised their limitations. A high street retailer like HMV will never be able to compete with iTunes or Amazon, so why bother? They could've downsized and evolved into a more indie-type business, catering for music fans who might not be able to easily find what they want on Amazon or iTunes (there's a huge amount of artists whose catalogues aren't available on iTunes). They could've continued stocking rare imports, catalogue albums and niche genres. They could've shown real music lovers that they care about stocking CDs rather than reducing their music stock to a quarter of what it was a decade ago.

HMV now faces the same problem that WHSmith has - a high street store that has spent so long chasing profit margins that it's completely lost it's sense of identity. HMV could've had the monopoly on CD sales. Their logic of staying afloat by stocking computer games and DVDs has backfired on them. You can buy DVDs in most supermarkets or on Amazon for a fraction of the cost, so where's the logic in replacing their music section with DVDs? Perhaps if they'd focused on being a really great music shop where people could find whatever they wanted in store then they wouldn't be up the creek without a padde right now.

You talk as if their downfall was all so inevitable and that they were entirely helpless to the rapidly changing market conditions. People don't shop their anymore because they no longer have anything to offer.

has pissed off the hardcore music fans by reducing their music stock to such a pitiful amount.

lastdecember said:

unique said:

is that uk best buy or usa or both?

they don't have many stores in the uk really, so not much of a competition to hmv, but if they did do that then it opens a door for hmv. best buy had grand plans of expansion in the uk, but the recession put a stop to that

USA, they are eliminating Music DVDs in certain locations 100%. To me looking in these stores (best buy that is) the selection is so bad (and im in a major city of NYC) that i dont understand why they even carry it at this point, because people i talk to at labels that go into Best Buy, say Best Buy regards music as "taking up space" at this point, its nothing but a loss to them.

And doing cycle counts are a pain in the ass

Surely stocking mainly imports and niche genres was what killed Tower Records all those years ago. I used to love that place and I'd buy rare expensive imports from there, but those stores were always practically empty with oly a few other customers browsing.

It's sad that all these record stores are closing. Here in the US a few of the FYE (For Your Entertainment) music chains are closing as well.

[Edited 1/9/11 6:31am]

alphastreet said:

nooooooooo! Well I hope the Canadian HMV remains open

It seems to be surviving out here but I didn't see the Christmas sales reports.

When I was living in London some 10 years ago the prices in those stores were just absurd. If they were like that throughout the last decade then no wonder the company has had problems.

novabrkr said:

When I was living in London some 10 years ago the prices in those stores were just absurd. If they were like that throughout the last decade then no wonder the company has had problems.

It hasn't though. The last 2-3 years in particular have been very fair pricing. Folks want free though.

Ellie said:

Surely stocking mainly imports and niche genres was what killed Tower Records all those years ago. I used to love that place and I'd buy rare expensive imports from there, but those stores were always practically empty with oly a few other customers browsing.

tower records prices were just ridiculous. i remember they wanted around £30 for some imports that you could get at almost half the price by mail order, and by mail order i mean old skool reading ad's in the back of magazines, getting printed catalogues mailed to you, and phoning up to place orders, pre internet shopping, and from usually much smaller stores that couldn't bulk buy, had to pay all the import taxes etc, charge VAT and had high shipping and handling charges. a few years later and you could use amazon for imports and get them to your home at cheaper prices than UK stock, yet tower were still trying to charge £30 for imports. even all the normal uk stock was typically more expensive than HMV and virgin who had far more stores, and in almost all instances had stores very nearby tower

the london tower records was huge and had everything, but charged more for it. we never had a tower in my town, but there was one in glasgow i went to fairly often and left empty handed almost every time. it was more like somewhere to browse and see what's available, and then phone some place that advertised in Q or NME to order from them instead

MattyJam said:

unique said:

you are contradicting yourself now. one minute you say they should have stayed a music store, the next you say they should have evolved, and previously you expressed your dislike for the way they have evolved

25 years ago hmv was mainly records, tapes, t shirts and concert tickets, a few calendars at xmas time. then videotapes slowly became introduced, then cd came along and slowly the tapes and records dissapeared, then dvd came along and replace the videotapes. hmv kept pretty much out of the computer game market until napster took the music business out it's hands and play, cdwow and amazon ripped the rest of the music sales and took a large chunk of the dvd sales, so they had to look at other markets like gaming to stay in business, but as the other online stores and then supermarkets looked to grab that business they now struggle to sell any music related items or other items of interest to the youth market it aims for, thus mobile phones and ipod accessories

the main problem is the internet killed the business, downloading and then online sales. if HMV reduced the prices they would make less profit thus struggle even further. the problem with legit sales is HMV can't compete with online retailers offering items for sale at a cheaper price because they don't have to charge twenty percent value added tax. thus a £20 item in HMV can be sold for £16 online, with the same markup. a £40 game in HMV can be sold for £32 online with the same mark up. if HMV sold at those prices it wouldn't make any profit, thus wouldn't be able to pay wages, rent, rates, electricity, and other overheads

whilst it's great for consumers, the VAT loophole is fucking UK retailers up the arse, as well as fucking over the public. they aren't playing on the same field as the online retailers operating from jersey, or in some cases operating from the UK and using jersey solely as a base to avoid tax. at least play are actually based in jersey. the music retailers already got shafted by napster and other p2p making music and movies free, then itunes making downloading music easy and legal for those with a modicum of honesty, and the government hasn't helped by increasing VAT from 15% to 20% and letting countries from outside the uk sell items, not pay tax and undercut legal UK businesses and take away business from them

most of the items HMV sell are small items that can easily be bought online cheaper, and easily shipped and stuck through letterboxes. why should anyone bother leaving home and paying more money? you can browse from the comfort of your own home whilst eating, drinking, smoking, listening to music and watching tv, and you can google up reviews or hear samples of what you want to buy first, and find the cheapest place to buy from, and the item drops through your door in a few days, or if you can't wait you can download legally or illegally and listen instantly, and if you have morals you can download illegally to get a quick fix and still pay for the cd. the artists and record companies don't get paid more depending on how much you pay at retail

the people who do want physical media are in decline. most people listen to music on portable players like ipods and don't need or care about having a cd or even lossless quality, that's why itunes is so popular, and why napster was also so popular. cds and dvds can take up shitloads of space for a big collector, but even people with absolutely massive collections can usually stick everything on a 2tb or 3tb drive, or failing that 2 or 3 drives. if people cared about quality, we wouldn't end up going from cd quality to lossy mp3 quality, and mp3 sales increasing whilst cd sales decline. most people just want to hear the tune. the audophiles make up such a small percentage of consumers that stores are rightly ignoring their needs in order to appeal to the customers who will give them a profit. the top 20 shit of the week is what sells and makes money and keeps the stores afloat. if you want something that doesn't require a computer to make someones voice seem palatable enough to put on cd, you can easily buy it online instead

HMV were never the trendy retailer, never was, never will be, and aren't at the moment. indie stores sold the non chart material, but most of those have been killed off by p2p and internet shopping, and HMV survived. even fopp went bust, another company i worked for, and HMV took over. fopps original policy was to sell what HMV didn't specialise in, thus indie and jazz and hip hop and rnb (that's soul and funk, not garageband and ringtones), but p2p, itunes and internet sales eventually drove them to the ground. HMV took over some of the stores, but they just weren't the same, mainly as fopp expanded too fast and at the wrong time, they expanded just before p2p and internet shopping exploded, but they were tied into long leases with the new stores they opened, so couldn't close as quickly as they opened

as time goes on, more and more people will get used to internet shopping for both physical items and downloads. with many music players coming out without even cd players, it's forcing many people to listen to music from non physical formats, whether they buy as downloads or have to rip from cds and have them gathering dust on shelves. even audiophiles are playing music from harddrive bases sources, using streamers and digital jukeboxes to access the music they want. in the last 10 years i've rarely played a cd apart from when djing. that's the way things are moving for everyone. there will eventually come a time when cds and dvds and blurays will stop being sold and all content will be available through digital download only, and thus completely negating the need for stores like HMV

I'm not contradicting myself at all. When I said they should've evolved, I meant that they should've recognised their limitations. A high street retailer like HMV will never be able to compete with iTunes or Amazon, so why bother? They could've downsized and evolved into a more indie-type business, catering for music fans who might not be able to easily find what they want on Amazon or iTunes (there's a huge amount of artists whose catalogues aren't available on iTunes). They could've continued stocking rare imports, catalogue albums and niche genres. They could've shown real music lovers that they care about stocking CDs rather than reducing their music stock to a quarter of what it was a decade ago.

HMV now faces the same problem that WHSmith has - a high street store that has spent so long chasing profit margins that it's completely lost it's sense of identity. HMV could've had the monopoly on CD sales. Their logic of staying afloat by stocking computer games and DVDs has backfired on them. You can buy DVDs in most supermarkets or on Amazon for a fraction of the cost, so where's the logic in replacing their music section with DVDs? Perhaps if they'd focused on being a really great music shop where people could find whatever they wanted in store then they wouldn't be up the creek without a padde right now.

You talk as if their downfall was all so inevitable and that they were entirely helpless to the rapidly changing market conditions. People don't shop their anymore because they no longer have anything to offer.

has pissed off the hardcore music fans by reducing their music stock to such a pitiful amount.

but i detailed before that it doesn't make sense to downsize, and the logistics of doing so when you can keep operating at the same profit level or close to it by updating it's product line. it's the new products that kept it afloat whilst cd sales dropped

HMV have been trading in the uk as a retail store for 45 years, so they have huge experience and a number of experienced and qualified people constantly looking at how to keep the business going. they know that the hardcore music fans aren't HMV's demographic and haven't been for a long time, if ever. hardcore music fans preferred indie stores and then shopping/downloading online. HMV's demographic is teeny boppers wanting bay city rollers and new crap on the block type cds, and mums buying daniel o donnel albums. the top 20 is what they sell and what the customers want. having worked for the company i know what the customers want and ask for, and few people are interested in more hardcore choices. whenever we tried to introduce something different, it would just sit on the shelves and not sell

fopp on the other hand did the opposite, they couldn't compete with sales of take that albums when HMV could bulk buy and undercut them, so they went for the indie market, the same with avalanche, but then those markets died because of downloading and internet sales, as the more savvy hardcore musical types are more likely to download or buy online than other demographics. regular purchases and hardcore fans of most types of products are generally more savvy and aware of pricing, whether it's computer hardware or sports equipment, thus large retail outlets can't compete in that market. they can try, and they can play games and fight price wars, and that's when the market gets fucked for everyone, because if asda sell the latest albums and dvds at cost price, not making any profit on them to draw in customers to buy their weekly shopping at which they make profit, then tesco jump on board, then sainsburys etc, it kills the market for music stores

with rent, rates, electricity, staff costs, fuel costs, insurance and most other basic retail business costs increasing constantly year on year, traditional brick and morter stores can't cut prices, reduce profit margin and still stay in business, which is why your other suggestion of reduced prices can't work. let's say they did reduce prices and profit margin by half, they would need twice as many sales to make the same profit, so with sales declining, it's not a feasible option. changing your stock from mass market products to more specialised such as indie and imports isn't going to increase profitability either, it just means more risky stock in stores with a smaller customer base, and as the cost of rent/rates/etc increases, it means the cost of stocking those products becomes more expensive than the high turnover stock, as it sits on shelves longer. you have to consider the time it takes for the item to "rent" the shop floor space

if there was a way out or quick fix for HMV they would have done it long ago, but the position they are in means they can't get out quickly or easily. they can't just downsize as you say due to the leases they have on properties and stock levels, and if they did downsize it's likely most of the business would be taken away from online stores and supermarkets

MattyJam said:

Good riddance I say.

Hmm... don't agree with that... I always loved to browse through their shops....

Why would anybody pay £10-15 for a CD from HMV when you can get it for £3-5 on Amazon?? At least on Amazon you can find exactly what you're looking for. I can't tell you the amount of times I've looked for an old catalogue CD in HMV only to find empty shelves. Beyond the top 40 they don't really stock much music these days. Not only that, they are obviously far more interested in selling DVDs and computer games. It's supposed to be a music shop and yet in my local branch you have to go to the second floor to even find a CD. As far as I'm concerned they've bought this on themselves.

...and then go online afterwards to see where I could get their stuff much cheaper! They got a great DVD departement.... I don't really care for buying CDs anymore anyway. When they have offers I liked to shop with them though.... but unfortunately most of the times they were more expensive than anyone else.... but whatever... as long as they keep their London shops I don't mind!

PurpleReign30 said:

It's sad that all these record stores are closing. Here in the US a few of the FYE (For Your Entertainment) music chains are closing as well.

[Edited 1/9/11 6:31am]

Yeah! It is... but it's kinda a vicious circle and it's inevitable that that is way it's gonna go! I love to browse through shops... it's more fun than to do it online, but still I'm not willing to buy 20 % more than I would have to pay on online retailers. People will buy where they can get the stuff for the cheapest prices and companies don't want to loose money. Nobody's got any extra money just to spend for the fun of it.