unique is speaking the truth. Having worked for HMV at one point, I can co-sign a lot of the things unique says about the customer base and business model.

What I don't understand is that internet order companies are running the high street shops out of business, yet the Post Office are akways whining that their business is down. I know Amazon UK still use Royal Mail for most items, so surely all those large packages must make up for people using e-mail over regular letters these days.

Most of my Amazon orders arrived via UPS (even in Canada). I reckon once a person pays shipping, that makes up for the extra cost they thought they were saving on by not shopping at a normal brick-and-mortar store, and they had to wait. It doesn't make perfect sense to me except for items NOT stocked locally.

I've only known them to use UPS when it's a big heavy item and I've selected Express delivery. For small items like a single CD/DVD/book they almost always come through regular Royal Mail.

^^Yeah! Some people are stupid in that sense... I'd rather go to a conventional retailer than to pay for shipping! But when you order with Amazon and Play you usually don't have to pay for shipping! But of course, someone is paying for the shipping, so all the mail services should profit a lot from the online retailers and the likes of Ebay, Craigslist and so on.

Edit: Yeah, in Austria, Germany and Switzerland they also use the regular mail.

[Edited 1/9/11 8:44am]

Ellie said:

Surely stocking mainly imports and niche genres was what killed Tower Records all those years ago. I used to love that place and I'd buy rare expensive imports from there, but those stores were always practically empty with oly a few other customers browsing.

Believe it or not Tower could have remained, especially their 4th Street Location in NYC which no one has been able to pay rent on full time and has been nothing more than a halloween store for a month and some other crap now.But Tower could have been kept open but the judge decided that "music was no longer a viable means of business" so he decided the problem would only get worse and they wouldnt be able to hold up, so he closed them all, it was the same deal with Virgin. Tower however was a landmark in NYC, the niche of being the ONLY major store to carry imports and also indie artists set them aside, Sam Goody was another that specialized in getting artists in consignment agreements, mainly reggae, but some rock and gospel too, basically if you wanted to sell your cd you could just let them sell it for you and split the money, It worked well especially for Brooklyn and reggae artists. But everyone decided that these were too expensive and THOUGHT they could control that when none of them had that control, to those of you who know how it works, this was impossible to do. So thats why you are stuck with Best Buy or Target and their crap selections

That sounds exactly like what's become of the Virgin Megastore/Zavvi on Oxford Street in London. Just a huge cheap clothes store constantly there on temporary leases. I think Primark may be taking it over now which is all the more depressing.

Sam Goody is totally gone now right? I always think of that chain reminiscing on vacations to the United States.

Ellie said:

What I don't understand is that internet order companies are running the high street shops out of business, yet the Post Office are akways whining that their business is down. I know Amazon UK still use Royal Mail for most items, so surely all those large packages must make up for people using e-mail over regular letters these days.

the post office and royal mail are two seperate organisations

the royal mail are obliged by law to deliver to all addresses in the uk, so for 35p they have to deliver a letter to the middle of nowhere up north in scotland via boat or plane, from london. since deregulation, other companies have been able to deliver mail and handpicked all the most profitable areas of business and offered services to other clients. in the same way as the unbundling of telephone exchanges, whilst you might pay another company for your ADSL or telephone, it's BT's cables that are providing the service, and BT that has to pay for the upkeep, and with some of these other mailing companies, they still rely on royal mail to deliver the last mile, so another company takes a chunk of the profits and mr royal mail postman still sticks the letter through your box in nomansland, shitsville

the post officeis becoming more of an old intitution for old people to pick up pensions and benefit scroungers picking up beer and fag tokens, whilst the rest of the world catches up to using systems invented decades ago where payment is sent directly to bank accounts with money available at the stroke of midnite so they don't have to line up for an hour before the post office opens on benefits day. most of the other services the post office historically offered are now available by other means, including the internet. you can even buy stamps online and print them out. as the old people die out through time, and the dole scum die of liver failure and fag induced cancer, the local post offices will become less necessary

most of the current problems we have are directly or indirectly related to thatcher privatising everything in the 80s, so nothing of value is owned and operated by the country for the good of the country, councils sold properties cheaply to tennants and started the property boom then bust that nearly obliterated the banks that then needed tax payers money to stop the country falling apart and causing a knock on global financial catastrophe, and all so a few people could get rich, and leave the rest even further behind. and now the tories are back to make things even worse again. if you thought labour were a bunch of cunts, wait till the flowerpot men are through. one things for sure, the tories aren't going to be in power again for a long fucking time after this term

wooooo!

Cinnie said:

Sam Goody is totally gone now right? I always think of that chain reminiscing on vacations to the United States.

the name is totally gone but some of the stores still exist under another company now, Transworld had bought up what was left and changed the names. FYE is what most became, Saturday Matinee took over Suncoast Stores but i think most are now gone too.

PatrickS77 said:

^^Yeah! Some people are stupid in that sense... I'd rather go to a conventional retailer than to pay for shipping! But when you order with Amazon and Play you usually don't have to pay for shipping! But of course, someone is paying for the shipping, so all the mail services should profit a lot from the online retailers and the likes of Ebay, Craigslist and so on.

Edit: Yeah, in Austria, Germany and Switzerland they also use the regular mail.

[Edited 1/9/11 8:44am]

the customer pays for the shipping in all cases. whether it's £9+£1 shipping or £10 included, you are paying one way or another

the thing is, with a lot of online shopping, even with paying for delivery it can still often work out cheaper than buying instore. and to some people who like in the sticks it's much more convenient and economic to get goods delivered. not everyone lives in or near a town full of high street stores

lastdecember said:

Cinnie said:

Sam Goody is totally gone now right? I always think of that chain reminiscing on vacations to the United States.

the name is totally gone but some of the stores still exist under another company now, Transworld had bought up what was left and changed the names. FYE is what most became, Saturday Matinee took over Suncoast Stores but i think most are now gone too.

thanks

unique said:

the customer pays for the shipping in all cases. whether it's £9+£1 shipping or £10 included, you are paying one way or another

Hmm well... not really! With Amazon, if I buy a CD I pay say 10 plus 3 shipping. If I buy stuff which costs 20 combined I do not pay shipping and just pay what the items cost! Of course in the long run all the "free" shipping will be calculated over all the prices each item costs, so in the end all customers pay 10 cent or whatever per item for shipping! But for my transaction I do not pay shipping!

And in the case of Play, I don't really care if I pay for shipping if I get a CD or DVD for 6 € all included, wheras I have to pay 8 + 3 on other stores for the same product.

PatrickS77 said:

unique said:

the customer pays for the shipping in all cases. whether it's £9+£1 shipping or £10 included, you are paying one way or another

Hmm well... not really! With Amazon, if I buy a CD I pay say 10 plus 3 shipping. If I buy stuff which costs 20 combined I do not pay shipping and just pay what the items cost! Of course in the long run all the "free" shipping will be calculated over all the prices each item costs, so in the end all customers pay 10 cent or whatever per item for shipping! But for my transaction I do not pay shipping!

And in the case of Play, I don't really care if I pay for shipping if I get a CD or DVD for 6 € all included, wheras I have to pay 8 + 3 on other stores for the same product.

you are still paying for the shipping with amazon. what is happening is you are getting a discount if you spend more than a set amount. in other words, they are trying to persuade you to spend more money so the shipping cost per item is reduced

however way it works or is calculated, you ultimately are paying for the shipping, you just prove the point that hiding costs makes people think they aren't paying for something. you prefer less transparency

Which brings us to another issue. There are noooo volume discounts at HMV anymore.

I remember HMV used to have CD Club cards that you would get an imprint on each CD over a certain price, and once you reached the end of the card it was a free one.

It's too bad that Amazon can do this and offer a discount that ends up paying for shipping. Amazon also gets to take their sweet time to retrieve the media from their warehouse before shipping. How many times I asked for expedited shipping only to wait for them to fill the order??

So, for some reason people put up with that bullshit but can't stand to see an extra $3 at their local store.

I am gonna miss music stores. I loved them.

dag said:

I am gonna miss music stores. I loved them.

Malls were a drag before, now what?

unique said:

you are still paying for the shipping with amazon. what is happening is you are getting a discount if you spend more than a set amount. in other words, they are trying to persuade you to spend more money so the shipping cost per item is reduced

however way it works or is calculated, you ultimately are paying for the shipping, you just prove the point that hiding costs makes people think they aren't paying for something. you prefer less transparency

Jeez, I'm not paying for shipping with Amazon! I don't know which Amazon you use, but the one I use, once you spend 20 € you're not paying for shipping! If I buy something for 10 the one week and something for 10 the other week I will pay 3 shipping each week! If I buy the same items at once for the same price, which comes up to 20, then that's all I pay! No added shipping cost! And books are shipped for free... so if I buy an item for 10 and a cheap book for 2 then I get all my stuff for 12 and don't have any added shipping cost.

PatrickS77 said:

unique said:

you are still paying for the shipping with amazon. what is happening is you are getting a discount if you spend more than a set amount. in other words, they are trying to persuade you to spend more money so the shipping cost per item is reduced

however way it works or is calculated, you ultimately are paying for the shipping, you just prove the point that hiding costs makes people think they aren't paying for something. you prefer less transparency

Jeez, I'm not paying for shipping with Amazon! I don't know which Amazon you use, but the one I use, once you spend 20 € you're not paying for shipping! If I buy something for 10 the one week and something for 10 the other week I will pay 3 shipping each week! If I buy the same items at once for the same price, which comes up to 20, then that's all I pay! No added shipping cost! And books are shipped for free... so if I buy an item for 10 and a cheap book for 2 then I get all my stuff for 12 and don't have any added shipping cost.

That's because they have given you a discount estimated as the same cost of shipping. Shipping is paid by someone, right?

PatrickS77 said:

unique said:

you are still paying for the shipping with amazon. what is happening is you are getting a discount if you spend more than a set amount. in other words, they are trying to persuade you to spend more money so the shipping cost per item is reduced

however way it works or is calculated, you ultimately are paying for the shipping, you just prove the point that hiding costs makes people think they aren't paying for something. you prefer less transparency

Jeez, I'm not paying for shipping with Amazon! I don't know which Amazon you use, but the one I use, once you spend 20 € you're not paying for shipping! If I buy something for 10 the one week and something for 10 the other week I will pay 3 shipping each week! If I buy the same items at once for the same price, which comes up to 20, then that's all I pay! No added shipping cost! And books are shipped for free... so if I buy an item for 10 and a cheap book for 2 then I get all my stuff for 12 and don't have any added shipping cost.

there might be no added shipping, but you are still paying for the goods and the shipping, it's just that the price is bundled together. don't you know basic economics?

it's like isntead of selling the book for £1.50 plus 50p delivery, they sell the book for £2 with free delivery. the delivery cost is included in the sale

everyone pays delivery with every company, they aren't charities, they are just using marketing techniques to make you think you are getting free delivery or a good deal, effectively offering a discount by a few quid if you spend over an amount, or threatening to charge you more on shipping if you don't spend over the amount

BklynBabe said:

Soon there will not be physical music or books, which frees up a lot of storage and living space. Hey maybe we will have room for the 20 billion people trying to breed, even if many of them are starving. Awesome society we have here....

Just as the iPod is killing record stores, the Kindle/Nook will kill most bookstores.

SPINOFF: I really don't want to read a book from a backlit page or something that looks like a Gameboy.

Cinnie said:

SPINOFF: I really don't want to read a book from a backlit page or something that looks like a Gameboy.

yeah this is my issue with having "digital booklets" from iTunes, do i really want to read this on a iPod screen? i mean album artwork reduced to a little box.

Seriously, how hard is it to understand that once you spend 20 bucks you don't pay for shipping???

If I order product A, which costs 10 bucks, today I will spent 10 plus 3 shipping! If I buy product B, which also costs 10 bucks, tomorrow, I will pay 10 plus 3 shipping! So I have spent 20 on the products and 6 on the shipping!

But if I buy product A and B, which both cost 10 bucks each, today together at the same time, I will spend 20 bucks altogether and don't have to pay for shipping!

So 26 bucks on ordering seperatly (20 plus twice 3 shipping) vs. 20 bucks ordering them together, since that is how Amazon.de works... once you spend 20 bucks you do not have to pay extra shipping! Can't be that hard to understand now, can it??

And I already said that of course that shipping scheme will somehow be calculated over all the prices of all the thousands and thousands of items they sell and at the end of the day (or year) will be paid by the collective of all the thousands of costumers by buying products that are unnoticeable more expensive, but still way way cheaper than any item bought in a shop or other online retailers! But compared to actual shipping costs, its totally neglectable.

And if you compare Amazon's scheme to any other company, which charges shipping, regardless of how much you order and still has higher prices than Amazon or any other retail store, then the winner will always be Amazon.

[Edited 1/9/11 11:40am]

unique said:

there might be no added shipping, but you are still paying for the goods and the shipping, it's just that the price is bundled together. don't you know basic economics?

it's like isntead of selling the book for £1.50 plus 50p delivery, they sell the book for £2 with free delivery. the delivery cost is included in the sale

That might be the case with a company like Play, which never charges shipping, but it's different with Amazon, which only charges shipping as long as your under a certain amount!

And seriously, when I order a brand new DVD for 5 € total cost including shipping from the UK (or Jersey) to Austria at Play.com, then I don't really care about shipping! As the shipping alone would almost make up those 5 €!

[Edited 1/9/11 11:37am]

I think that Amazon is the only thing holding the mail companies from going under at this point. All those bonuses for the consumers for multiple items, its all made up by Amazon getting accounts with UPS and other mail services, that is a HUGE account that they cannot lose.

PatrickS77 said:

Seriously, how hard is it to understand that once you spend 20 bucks you don't pay for shipping???

If I order product A, which costs 10 bucks, today I will spent 10 plus 3 shipping! If I buy product B, which also costs 10 bucks, tomorrow, I will pay 10 plus 3 shipping! So I have spent 20 on the products and 6 on the shipping!

But if I buy product A and B, which both cost 10 bucks each, today together at the same time, I will spend 20 bucks altogether and don't have to pay for shipping!

So 26 bucks on ordering seperatly (20 plus twice 3 shipping) vs. 20 bucks ordering them together, since that is how Amazon.de works... once you spend 20 bucks you do not have to pay extra shipping! Can't be that hard to understand now, can it??

And I already said that of course that shipping scheme will somehow be calculated over all the prices of all the thousands and thousands of items they sell and at the end of the day (or year) will be paid by the collective of all the thousands of costumers by buying products that are unnoticeable more expensive, but still way way cheaper than any item bought in a shop or other online retailers! But compared to actual shipping costs, its totally neglectable.

And if you compare Amazon's scheme to any other company, which charges shipping, regardless of how much you order and still has higher prices than Amazon or any other retail store, then the winner will always be Amazon.

[Edited 1/9/11 11:40am]

you surely can't be that dumb?

when a company such as play sells an item for say £10, it costs them about £4. the difference between what they pay and what they sell for is gross profit

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gross_profit

with that gross profit, overheads have to be paid, such as rents, rates, wages, and shipping

so when you buy something from a company that is delivered to you and no extra shipping charges are listed, it's because they are included in the sales price

thus whether you buy goods at £10 with no shipping price added, or you buy them for £8 plus £1 delivery, either way you are paying for the shipping

in the case of amazon, in order to keep a reasonable element of nett profit...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Net_profit

... they either allow you to buy goods and charge an additional shipping fee, or you have to buy goods with a retail value over a certain amount, so the gross profit is sufficient to include the shipping costs and allow the company a reasonable net profit

so either way, you pay for the shipping, whether it's clear to you or not, hidden or transparent

does that make sense?

you've maybe heard the phrase "there is no such thing as a free lunch"?

it's like a sale in DFS, when you buy one and get one free. instead of you actually getting a sofa for free, you are actually buying two sofas with 50% off each one, so instead of the company selling a sofa with half the profit, the make the same profit but clear twice as much stock, so instead of making say £100 profit on 1 sofa, they make £100 profit on 2 sofas, thus £200 profit and less stock to shift. you don't get the free sofa unless you pay for the first one, thus you are really paying for the second sofa as part of the sale price of the first one

this is pretty simple basic stuff

When it comes to shipping online w/ Amazon.com in the US, anything that is $25 or more, the shipping is free...I'm not sure how it works overseas though.

Cinnie said:

alphastreet said:

nooooooooo! Well I hope the Canadian HMV remains open

It seems to be surviving out here but I didn't see the Christmas sales reports.

Yep so far HMV here is ok in